Tourism Matters

Join Carmen as she chats with Lisa Pagotto, founder of Crooked Compass and Crooked Compass by Air, about building a tourism business, backing yourself and finding opportunity in some very unexpected places.

Lisa launched Crooked Compass in 2014 after realising she was successfully building brands and revenue streams for other tourism businesses and asking herself why she wasn’t doing it for herself.

From just $21,000 in turnover in her first year, Lisa went on to appear on Shark Tank, nearly lost the business through a deal that went badly wrong, rebuilt it, and then watched COVID bring international travel to a complete standstill.

And then she learnt to fly planes.

That random decision eventually led to Crooked Compass by Air, a second tourism business that helped keep Crooked Compass alive during the pandemic.

Carmen and Lisa also talk about building a business without a marketing budget, asking your network for help, hiring for passion and cultural fit, the growth of private touring, working with the travel trade and using customer data to continually adapt the business.

WHAT YOU’LL TAKE AWAY FROM THIS EPISODE

• Why Lisa backed Crooked Compass despite turning over just $21,000 in its first year
• How relationships and word of mouth helped build the business without a marketing budget
• What Shark Tank did for Crooked Compass, and the difficult lesson that followed
• How learning to fly during COVID eventually became Crooked Compass by Air
• Why Lisa now hires for passion, attitude and cultural fit rather than skills alone
• How Crooked Compass uses customer data to respond to changing traveller behaviour
• Why private touring now represents around 60% of the business
• Why consumers are increasingly discovering Crooked Compass themselves and then asking their travel agents to book it
• Lisa’s advice for anyone wondering whether to back themselves and build something of their own

ABOUT LISA PAGOTTO

Lisa Pagotto is the founder of Crooked Compass and Crooked Compass by Air.

After starting her career as a travel consultant, Lisa worked across wholesale, tour leading, adventure tourism, sales, marketing and expedition cruising before launching Crooked Compass in 2014.

Crooked Compass specialises in immersive, lesser-known and highly curated travel experiences, while Crooked Compass by Air offers private touring by aircraft across Australia.

LINKS & ORGANISATIONS MENTIONED

Crooked Compass https://www.crooked-compass.com/

Crooked Compass by Air https://www.crookedcompassbyair.com/

Lisa Pagotto on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-pagotto/

TIME – Travel Industry Mentor Experience https://travelindustrymentor.com.au/

EPISODE CHAPTERS

00:00 – Welcome and getting to know Lisa
04:05 – Growing up surrounded by travel
07:46 – Starting a career in the travel industry
10:23 – Finding her place in adventure tourism
12:33 – The beginnings of Crooked Compass
15:48 – Moving from employee to business owner
18:06 – $21,000 in turnover and deciding the idea had legs
19:39 – Creating travel experiences nobody else was selling
22:42 – Building a business with no marketing budget
25:56 – How Crooked Compass evolved
26:32 – Applying for Shark Tank
33:18 – The deal that nearly destroyed the business
34:01 – COVID changes everything
35:08 – Learning to fly and the beginnings of Crooked Compass by Air
37:36 – “What can I lose?”
40:20 – Repositioning Crooked Compass by Air for the US market
43:07 – Building a small, remote team
44:08 – What Lisa looks for when hiring
49:21 – How travel behaviour has changed post-COVID
51:01 – Using customer data to shape the business
52:08 – Trade versus direct bookings
55:36 – What Lisa would tell her younger self

STAY CONNECTED WITH TOURISM MATTERS

Subscribe to the Tourism Matters Newsletter. Carmen shares ideas to help tourism businesses and their people do better work, along with tourism jobs, events, learning opportunities and useful ways to connect across the industry.

Follow Tourism Matters wherever you listen to podcasts, and connect with Carmen Bold on LinkedIn.

Join Carmen as she chats with Jason Gelineau, a cruise and tourism industry leader with more than 30 years of global experience, including 24 years working at sea.

Jason shares how a teenage taste of Caribbean resort life sparked a career that would take him through hotels, luxury cruising, residential ships and senior leadership roles with brands including Silversea, Oceania Cruises, Seabourn, MSC Cruises and Explora Journeys.

They talk about guest experience, life at sea, building Explora Journeys from a blank sheet of paper, and the role that relationships, reputation, curiosity and saying yes have played throughout Jason’s career.

Today, through JAG Hospitality, Jason works across cruise, tourism and hospitality, connecting people and championing the industry.

Subscribe to the Tourism Matters Newsletter

What You’ll Take Away

• Why relationships and professional reputation can compound across an entire career
• The value of learning beyond your current role and cross-training before the next opportunity appears
• Why empathy is such an important part of tourism and hospitality
• What Jason learned from more than two decades working at sea
• How luxury guest expectations differ from other parts of the cruise market
• What it takes to create a new luxury cruise experience from a blank sheet of paper
• Why you don’t always need to feel completely ready before saying yes
• The importance of mentoring, community and giving back to the next generation of tourism professionals

About Jason Gelineau
Jason Gelineau is a cruise and tourism industry leader with more than 30 years of global experience, including 24 years working at sea across luxury, residential and contemporary cruise brands.

His career has included senior roles with Explora Journeys, Seabourn, Oceania Cruises, Silversea, The World of ResidenSea and MSC Cruises.

Today, Jason is Principal of JAG Hospitality, Seatrade Cruise Ambassador for Guest Experience and Wellness, Vice President of Skål International Perth, and a Featured Voice with The Forum by Forbes Travel Guide.

He works with tourism, cruise and hospitality brands across guest experience, product development, wellness, luxury retail, destination strategy and industry engagement.

Links & Organisations Mentioned
Jason Gelineau on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonagelineau/
The Forum by Forbes Travel Guide: https://theforum.forbestravelguide.com/team-member/jason-gelineau/
Seatrade Cruise: https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/
Skål International: https://skal.org/
Princess Cruises: https://www.princess.com/
Silversea: https://www.silversea.com/
The World, Residences at Sea: https://aboardtheworld.com/
Oceania Cruises: https://www.oceaniacruises.com/
Seabourn: https://www.seabourn.com/
MSC Cruises: https://www.msccruises.com.au/
Explora Journeys: https://explorajourneys.com/au/en
Coral Expeditions: https://www.coralexpeditions.com/

Episode Chapters
00:00 — Meet Jason Gelineau
04:50 — Growing up in Ottawa and discovering hospitality in Jamaica
10:13 — Starting in hospitality and learning the business from the ground up
15:04 — From Whistler to his first job at sea
19:56 — Guest service, empathy and understanding the traveller
24:11 — Building a career at sea and moving into luxury cruising
29:32 — Life aboard The World, a pioneering residential ship
32:56 — Oceania Cruises and stepping into senior leadership
38:39 — Facing a piracy emergency at sea
40:47 — Leaving cruise life and starting a Perth food truck
42:59 — MSC Cruises and the move into corporate development
45:32 — Building Explora Journeys from a blank sheet of paper
47:17 — Reputation, relationships and the opportunities they create
50:29 — JAG Hospitality, industry connection and Jason’s version of semi-retirement
55:05 — Mentoring, giving back and advice for the next generation

Stay Connected with Tourism Matters
If you work in tourism, subscribe to the Tourism Matters Newsletter. Carmen shares ideas to help tourism businesses and their people do better work, along with tourism jobs, events, learning opportunities and useful ways to connect across the industry.

Follow Tourism Matters wherever you listen to podcasts, and connect with Carmen Bold on LinkedIn.

Join Carmen as she chats with Alex Dykman, founder of Maverick Tourism and Grow Tourism, about entrepreneurship and the business of tourism.

Alex’s tourism career began with a chance conversation over drinks and an entry-level role with Tourism New Zealand. A few years later, several freelance projects completed while travelling through South America planted the seed for Maverick Tourism.

After returning to New Zealand at the age of 24, Alex gave herself six months to turn those early projects into a viable business. More than a decade later, Maverick Tourism has grown into a team of 12, working with leading tourism businesses across New Zealand and beyond.

Alex shares how Maverick found its place helping tourism operators grow direct sales, why bringing the right business partner into the company transformed what it could deliver, and how referrals, relationships and strong results fuelled its growth.

The conversation also explores Maverick’s approach to recruitment and its “no dickheads” policy, why cultural fit matters alongside technical capability, and how a strong employer brand can help smaller tourism businesses attract and retain talented people.

Alex also explains how industry conversations during New Zealand tourism’s recovery from COVID led her to launch Grow Tourism, an industry-led learning platform designed to provide more dynamic and relevant workforce development.

Carmen and Alex discuss flexible work, employee experience, tourism career pathways, digital distribution and the rapid changes AI is creating for tourism marketing.

It is an open and practical conversation about backing yourself, recognising genuine market needs, building a business around good people and continuing to evolve as the tourism industry changes.

WHAT YOU’LL TAKE AWAY FROM THIS EPISODE

• How a chance conversation led Alex from journalism into tourism
• Why early roles within destination organisations can provide valuable exposure to the wider tourism industry
• How freelance tourism marketing projects became the foundation of Maverick Tourism
• Why Alex gave herself six months to prove the business could become viable
• How face-to-face relationships and word-of-mouth referrals helped Maverick grow
• Why bringing complementary skills into a business can completely change its trajectory
• How Maverick approaches recruitment, cultural fit and its “no dickheads” policy
• Why employer brand matters for tourism businesses that cannot compete solely on salary
• Practical ways flexible work can help attract and retain talented people
• How Grow Tourism emerged from industry conversations about workforce attraction, development and retention
• Why digital strategy and distribution are no longer optional for tourism operators
• How AI and changing search behaviour are reshaping tourism marketing
• Alex’s advice for anyone considering taking an entrepreneurial leap

ABOUT ALEX DYKMAN
Alex Dykman is the kiwi founder of Maverick Tourism and Grow Tourism, a mum of 3 and a passionate advocate for all things tourism and visitor economy.

Maverick is her first business baby – a dedicated tourism marketing agency that has been helping tourism operators and destinations make the most of the digital space for more than 12 years. Alex and the team works with brands across the South Pacific and North America, combining big-picture thinking with a hands-on understanding of the stuff that actually moves the needle when it comes to visibility, direct sales and distribution.

More recently, Alex launched Grow Tourism, a new venture focused on transforming the way tourism trains and develops its workforce. Grow is all about modern, practical, bite-sized learning that feels exciting and far from stuffy; helping operators better grow and retain their people - powering industry forward in the process.

Connect with Alex on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adykman/
Learn more about Maverick Tourism: https://maverick-tourism.com/
Learn more about Grow Tourism: https://growtourism.com/

ORGANISATIONS REFERENCED
Tourism New Zealand: https://www.tourismnewzealand.com/
NewZealand.com: https://www.newzealand.com/
Queenstown Resort College: https://www.qrc.ac.nz/
Tourism Industry Aotearoa: https://www.tia.org.nz/

ZAC WATSON TOURISM MATTERS EPISODE
Carmen also spoke with Maverick Tourism General Manager Zac Watson about his tourism career, leadership and the journey that led him to Maverick.

Listen to the conversation with Zac Watson: https://www.carmenbold.com/tourism-matters-podcast/zac-watson

EPISODE CHAPTERS

00:00 – Introduction
01:14 – Meet Alex Dykman
05:37 – Alex’s early years and career ambitions
07:19 – The conversation that led Alex into tourism
13:12 – Travelling to South America and starting Maverick Tourism
17:30 – Giving the business six months to succeed
20:05 – Finding Maverick’s place in the tourism market
23:23 – The hire that changed the trajectory of the business
29:16 – Recruitment, cultural fit and the no dickheads policy
33:19 – Building a strong employer brand
38:16 – How Grow Tourism began
48:09 – Flexible work and retaining talented people
52:37 – AI, digital change and the future of tourism marketing
57:13 – Alex’s advice to her younger self
59:40 – Carmen’s key takeaways

Episode Description

Join Carmen as she speaks with Molly Dobbins, Tourism and Hospitality Gateway to Industry Schools Program Coordinator at the Queensland Tourism Industry Council.

Molly is passionate about empowering the next generation of tourism and hospitality professionals by connecting students, educators and industry. In her role, she works closely with Queensland schools to help students better understand the breadth, depth and opportunity that exists across tourism, hospitality and events.

In this conversation, Carmen and Molly discuss how we can do a much better job of showing young people, and their parents, that tourism is a genuine, rewarding and long-term career path. They also explore the importance of getting students out of the classroom and into real tourism businesses, where they can see and experience the people, pathways and possibilities that exist across the industry.

Molly also shares her own tourism career journey, from studying tourism in high school to working with operators, writing award submissions, contracting with small tourism businesses and now advocating for the next generation through her work with QTIC.

What You’ll Take Away

• Why tourism is often still seen as a “while you figure life out” job, rather than a long-term career pathway
• How consistent language could help students, parents and educators better understand tourism career opportunities
• Why hands-on industry experiences are so important for attracting young people into the sector
• The role parents play in shaping young people’s perceptions of tourism and hospitality careers
• How schools and industry can work together to build stronger career pipelines
• Why attitude, curiosity and willingness to learn still matter so much to tourism operators
• How foundational workplace skills, including communication, customer service and reliability, can be taught and developed
• Why entrepreneurship should also be part of the tourism careers conversation

About Molly Dobbins

Molly Dobbins is the Tourism and Hospitality Gateway to Industry Schools Program Coordinator at the Queensland Tourism Industry Council.

Through her work, Molly helps connect Queensland schools with the tourism, hospitality and events industries, supporting students and educators to better understand the career pathways available across the sector.

Having studied tourism herself in high school before going on to complete a double degree in business management and international hotel and tourism management, Molly brings both personal experience and industry insight to her work. Her career has included roles with Tourism Tribe, Fun Over 50 Holidays, award writing, marketing support for small tourism businesses, and now workforce and education advocacy through QTIC.

Molly is passionate about helping young people see tourism as an industry full of purpose, people, passion and possibility.

Connect with Molly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/molly-dobbins-125b86168/

Connect with Carmen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmen-bold/

Organisations Referenced

• Queensland Tourism Industry Council: qtic.com.au
• Gateway to Industry Schools Program: dtet.qld.gov.au/training/employers/gateway-schools
• University of Queensland: uq.edu.au
• Tourism Tribe: tourismtribe.com
• Fun Over 50 Holidays: funover50holidays.com.au
• Paradise Resort Gold Coast: paradiseresort.com.au
• Queensland Tourism Awards: qtic.com.au/queensland-tourism-awards

Episode Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Molly Dobbins
03:01 Molly’s journey into tourism education
05:52 Studying tourism and business during COVID-19
08:53 Building networks and saying yes to opportunities
12:00 Entering the industry during a challenging time
14:55 Entry-level roles and learning how tourism businesses operate
18:00 Molly’s current role connecting schools and industry
21:03 Barriers to young people seeing tourism as a career
22:40 The importance of engaging parents in tourism career conversations
24:29 Wages, awareness and other barriers to tourism careers
26:32 Why tourism needs more consistent career language
28:20 Showing the fun, purpose and possibility of tourism
30:35 Building stronger relationships between education and industry
32:30 Creating hands-on experiences for students
34:25 What operators are saying about young workers
36:50 Teaching foundational workplace skills
40:22 Encouraging entrepreneurship in tourism
42:40 Tourism, small business and the future of the industry

Join Carmen as she speaks with James Coughlan, founder of Shorex Australia, about his 25-year journey through the cruise industry.

James began his career as a chef, working in high-pressure kitchens before joining Crystal Cruises and stepping into life at sea. What started in the galley eventually led him into shore excursions, where he discovered a new side of the cruise industry: guest experience, destination knowledge, local operators and the complex world that sits just beyond the gangway.

In this episode, James shares what cruise ship life taught him about standards, service and resilience, and how saying yes to opportunities shaped his career. He also talks about the shift from ship life to shore-side roles, the impact of COVID on the cruise and tourism sector, and the decision to launch Shorex Australia in 2023.

This conversation is a fascinating look inside cruise tourism, but it is also a story about career evolution, backing yourself, building trust, and understanding the value of local tourism experiences.

What you’ll take away

• What life on board cruise ships can teach you about standards, service and resilience
• How James moved from chef to shore excursions and built a long-term career in cruise tourism
• Why saying yes, staying open and building relationships can change the direction of your career
• What shore excursions are and how they connect cruise lines with local tourism operators
• Why destination knowledge and guest trust are so important in delivering great visitor experiences
• What James learned from moving from employee to business owner
• Why Shorex Australia is focused on local relationships, sustainable growth and understanding each destination properly
• What tourism operators need to know if they want to work with the cruise industry

About James

James Coughlan is the founder of Shorex Australia and has spent around 25 years working across the cruise and tourism industry.

His career began in hospitality and commercial kitchens, including time at Bathers’ Pavilion in Sydney, before he joined Crystal Cruises as a chef. While working at sea, James moved from the galley into shore excursions, where he discovered the world of destination experiences, guest service and cruise operations.

After more than a decade at sea, James transitioned into shore-side cruise operations and spent many years working with inbound cruise programs across Australia. In 2023, he launched Shorex Australia, a locally focused business delivering shore excursion programs and destination experiences for cruise lines visiting Australia.

James brings deep practical knowledge of cruise tourism, local product development, guest experience and the importance of building strong relationships across the industry.

Connect with James on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-coughlan/

Discover more about Shorex Australia: https://www.shorexaustralia.com

Organisations and resources referenced

• Shorex Australia: https://www.shorexaustralia.com
• Crystal Cruises: https://www.crystalcruises.com
• Bathers’ Pavilion: https://www.batherspavilion.com.au
• TAFE NSW: https://www.tafensw.edu.au
• Intercruises: https://www.intercruises.com
• CLIA Australasia: https://www.cruising.org.au
• Australian Cruise Association: https://www.australiancruiseassociation.com
• Unreasonable Hospitality: https://www.unreasonablehospitality.com

Episode chapters

00:00 Introduction and tourism operator call-out
01:31 Welcome James Coughlan
03:38 James’ early life, first jobs and chef apprenticeship
07:49 Learning high standards in professional kitchens
09:54 Joining Crystal Cruises and life at sea
15:14 Moving from chef to shore excursions
17:14 What shore excursions are and how they work
20:07 Destination knowledge, guest trust and service excellence
25:55 Career progression, leadership and knowing when to move on
35:43 Transitioning from ship life to shore-side cruise operations
42:43 COVID, industry change and seeing a new opportunity
47:48 Launching Shorex Australia and backing himself
53:55 What Shorex Australia does differently
59:29 The next stage of growth, including a new Cairns rainforest experience
1:02:27 Advice for tourism operators wanting to work with cruise
1:05:52 Carmen’s closing reflections

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

This week on Tourism Matters, I sit down with Stephen Ekstrom, CEO, co-founder and self-described nerd whisperer at Learn Tourism.

Learn Tourism is a non-profit academy creating smart, immersive learning and promotional experiences for tourism professionals, destination marketers, trade associations and communities around the world.

This conversation takes a slightly different path from the usual Tourism Matters format. It is open, thoughtful and wide-ranging, touching on sustainable tourism, economic viability, storytelling, workforce development, career pathways, AI, frontline teams and the role of human connection in great visitor experiences.

Stephen and I explore what sustainability really means in tourism, not just environmentally, but socially, culturally and economically. We also talk about why tourism businesses need to be commercially sound, why learning should sit at the heart of strong tourism teams, and why storytelling can completely change the way visitors experience a place.

We also get into one of my favourite topics: tourism careers. Why do so many people fall into this industry rather than intentionally choose it? Why do we lose talented people? And how can we help people see the skills, pathways and possibilities available in tourism?

WHAT YOU’LL TAKE AWAY FROM THIS EPISODE

• Why sustainable tourism must include people, place and profitability
• Why economic viability matters for tourism operators
• How learning and professional development can strengthen tourism teams
• Why tourism careers often have a visibility and perception problem
• How transferable skills shape tourism career pathways
• What AI can and cannot replace in tourism
• Why human connection is still central to great visitor experiences
• How storytelling helps visitors feel more connected to a place
• Why frontline teams need appreciation, empowerment and licence to create memorable moments
• Stephen’s career journey and the creation of Learn Tourism

ABOUT STEPHEN

Stephen Ekstrom is the CEO and co-founder of Learn Tourism, a non-profit academy supporting tourism professionals, destination marketers, trade associations and communities through immersive learning experiences.

Stephen has worked across sales, product development, consulting, attractions, experiences and destination development. His work has taken him into communities and destinations across North America and beyond, helping tourism organisations think differently about learning, visitor experience, economic development and sustainable tourism.

CONNECTING WITH STEPHEN

Learn Tourism: https://learntourism.org
Stephen Ekstrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenekstrom/

CONNECT WITH CARMEN

Website: https://www.carmenbold.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmenbold/

EPISODE CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and setting the scene
01:37 Sustainable tourism and community engagement
02:15 Economic viability in tourism
05:10 Learning and growth in the tourism industry
08:03 Personal journeys in tourism
13:47 The importance of authenticity and connection
19:19 Career pathways in tourism
22:42 The role of AI in tourism
25:19 Storytelling in tourism
28:16 Engaging frontline staff in storytelling
32:22 Appreciation, empowerment and guest experience
36:58 Personal stories of kindness and hospitality
38:48 Career highlights and the birth of Learn Tourism

Episode Description

In this first solo episode of Tourism Matters, prompted by a question asked of her on LinkedIn, Carmen Bold explores one of the biggest challenges facing the tourism industry: how do we attract more people into tourism careers when so many of those careers are still invisible from the outside?

Carmen shares her thoughts on why tourism has a PR problem, why the industry needs to do a better job of showing the breadth of roles available, and why career conversations need to reach far beyond tourism students and people already inside the sector.

She also reflects on the value of education, the importance of lived experience, and the flexibility that makes tourism such a powerful and adaptable career path.

This episode is a call to stop talking about tourism careers in narrow, outdated ways and start showing people what the industry really offers.

What You’ll Take Away From This Episode

•  Why tourism careers are still poorly understood by many people outside the industry 
•  The need to broaden awareness beyond travel agents, flight attendants and tour guides 
•  Why tourism education is valuable, but not the only pathway into the industry 
•  How tourism can offer serious, rewarding and life-changing career experiences 
•  Why flexibility is one of tourism’s greatest strengths 
•  The importance of keeping good people in the industry, not just attracting new ones 
•  Why workplaces need to support, develop and retain their teams 

About Carmen Bold

Carmen Bold is the host of Tourism Matters and a Tourism Workforce & Industry Capability Specialist.

With more than 25 years’ experience across tourism operations, frontline delivery, events, destination management, industry development, partnerships, workforce capability and entrepreneurship, Carmen brings a practical, real-world lens to conversations about the future of tourism.

Her work focuses on tourism careers, workforce development, operator capability and the role people play in delivering standout visitor experiences.

Organisations Referenced

Carmen Bold on LinkedIn:
 https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmenbold/

Carmen Bold Website:
 https://carmenbold.com

Episode Chapters

 00:00 Introduction to Tourism Careers
 01:52 The Visibility Problem in Tourism Careers
 05:00 Broadening the Audience for Tourism Careers
 06:38 Education and Pathways into Tourism
 07:33 The Nature of the Tourism Industry
 10:02 Flexibility and Career Paths in Tourism
 12:54 Retention and Development in the Tourism Industry

In this episode of Tourism Matters, I’m joined by Professor Judith Mair, Academic Director and Associate Dean (Education) at The Hotel School Australia, Southern Cross University.

Judith’s career began in Scotland, where she studied languages before finding her way into tourism through visitor information, VisitScotland, tour operations, marketing and hotel business development. After becoming a mother, she moved into academia, completing a PhD and later building a research career across tourism, hospitality and events.

In this conversation, Judith shares what it was like to rethink her career after motherhood, move from Scotland to Australia with a young family, and build a new professional life through networks, research and teaching.

We also explore Judith’s research into events, sustainability, climate change, mega-event legacies and the social value of events, including the harder-to-measure impacts like community pride, belonging and what we lovingly describe as the “vibe”.

Later in the episode, Judith talks through The Hotel School’s flexible delivery model, including six-week terms, reduced cognitive load, industry-connected curriculum and paid internships designed to help students move more smoothly into tourism and hospitality careers.

This is a conversation about careers, education, events, motherhood, migration and why tourism and hospitality remain deeply human industries, even as technology and AI continue to change the way we work. 

What You’ll Take Away From This Episode

•  Why tourism careers often evolve through curiosity, opportunity and reinvention rather than a fixed plan. 
•  How Judith moved from languages into tourism, and then from industry into academia. 
•  Why motherhood can change a career path without diminishing it. 
•  The importance of networks when rebuilding or redirecting a tourism career. 
•  How events create value beyond economic impact, including pride, identity, belonging and social connection. 
•  Why tourism and event research needs to be easier for industry to access and use. 
•  How The Hotel School Australia’s flexible teaching model is designed around the real lives of students. 
•  Why paid internships can help students graduate with both qualifications and meaningful experience. 
•  Judith’s perspective on AI, automation and the irreplaceable role of human service in hospitality. 

About Professor Judith Mair

Professor Judith Mair is Academic Director and Associate Dean (Education) at The Hotel School Australia, Southern Cross University. Judith’s research aims to understand and enhance the positive impacts of tourism and events on the communities and societies which host them. 

Her research expertise lies in fields including mega-event legacies, the future of
events, the links between events and social connectivity, and the potential impacts of climate change on the events sector. She has published over 60 refereed articles in international journals and has worked with the International Olympics Olympic Committee and the Queensland Government on projects including event legacies, understanding social impacts of tourism and events, and assessing the impacts of climate change on the sector.

Connect with Judith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/professor-judith-mair-29778a2a/

Organisations Referenced

•  The Hotel School Australia: https://hotelschool.scu.edu.au/
•  Southern Cross University: https://www.scu.edu.au/
•  VisitScotland: https://www.visitscotland.com/
•  University of Strathclyde: https://www.strath.ac.uk/
•  Victoria University: https://www.vu.edu.au/
•  Monash University: https://www.monash.edu/
•  University of Queensland: https://www.uq.edu.au/
•  Centre for Events and Festivals: https://www.eventsandfestivals.org/

Episode Chapters

 00:00 Introduction to Professor Judith Mair
 01:37 Welcome and getting to know Judith
 03:49 Growing up in Scotland
 04:53 Studying languages and early career ideas
 06:13 Discovering tourism through visitor information
 08:52 Working in Scotland’s tourism industry
 10:31 Motherhood and rethinking her career
 12:04 Moving from Scotland to Australia
 14:25 Rebuilding a career through networks
 18:02 Research into events, sustainability and climate change
 20:36 Event legacies and social impact
 23:48 Measuring the “vibe” of major events
 25:40 Moving into teaching and academia
 31:50 Joining The Hotel School Australia
 33:25 Judith’s current role at Southern Cross University
 36:37 The Hotel School’s flexible delivery model
 40:29 Paid internships and industry connection
 43:43 Career advice for parents and career changers
 46:23 AI, hospitality and the value of human service
 49:23 Carmen’s closing reflections

In this episode of Tourism Matters, I’m joined by Hannah Pearson, founder of Pear Anderson and co-host of the Southeast Asia Travel Show.

Hannah’s career has taken her from studying languages at Oxford to teaching in France and China, corporate London, Kuala Lumpur, travel startups, market representation and founding Pear Anderson, a tourism sales, marketing and market intelligence business focused on Southeast Asia.

We talk about winding tourism careers, unexpected opportunities, building a business in travel, and how Hannah’s weekly Southeast Asia travel report became a trusted industry resource during COVID.

We also discuss workforce challenges, including the disconnect between education and industry, the need for better training, and why passion matters but cannot replace fair pay, support and development.

What you will takeaway...

•  Tourism careers rarely follow a straight line 
•  Sales in tourism is really about relationships and market fit 
•  Consistency can build serious credibility over time 
•  Education, industry and young professionals are often disconnected 
•  Passion matters, but it cannot be used as an excuse for burnout 

About Hannah Pearson

Hannah Pearson is the founder of Pear Anderson, a tourism sales, marketing and market intelligence company focused on Southeast Asia.

Originally from the UK, Hannah studied French and Classics at Oxford before working across China, Malaysia, outbound travel, B2B sales, travel tech, market representation and tourism research.

She is also co-host of the Southeast Asia Travel Show.

Organisations Referenced

• Pear Anderson – https://www.pearanderson.com
•  Report: The Evolving Tourism Workforce: Human Capital Development in APAC – https://www.pata.org/research-q1v63g6n2dw/p/human-capital-development-in-apac
•  Southeast Asia Travel Show – https://www.theseasiatravelshow.com/
•  PATA – https://www.pata.org
•  VisitBritain – https://www.visitbritain.org
•  GoQuo – https://www.goquo.com
•  University of Oxford – https://www.ox.ac.uk

Episode Chapters

 00:00 – Introduction to Hannah Pearson
 02:57 – Hannah’s early life, travel and love of languages
 05:48 – Studying at Oxford and spending a year in France
 08:42 – Teaching in China and travelling home via the Trans-Siberian Railway
 11:24 – Returning to the UK and starting corporate life
 14:14 – Moving to Malaysia and entering the travel industry
 16:58 – Building an outbound travel team in Kuala Lumpur
 19:51 – Sales, representation and building networks across Southeast Asia
 22:33 – Cultural awareness and market differences in Southeast Asian travel
 24:01 – Navigating language, culture and practical challenges on the road
 26:15 – Moving into the travel startup world
 28:01 – Learning travel tech, dynamic packaging and airline partnerships
 29:17 – The reality of entrepreneurship in tourism
 31:19 – Launching Pear Anderson and choosing independence
 34:00 – How COVID reshaped the business
 36:31 – Creating a weekly Southeast Asia travel intelligence resource
 38:04 – Growing Pear Anderson and building industry influence
 40:31 – Workforce challenges, education and industry disconnects
 46:21 – Passion, wages and retaining people in tourism
 50:24 – Hannah’s final reflections

Episode Description

This one flips the script.

For the first time on Tourism Matters, Carmen moves from host to guest, with Sarah Jane Tilbury taking the reins.

What unfolds is not a polished career narrative. It’s a real one.

From retail floors to reservations desks, bungy platforms to Rugby World Cup operations, entrepreneurship to industry capability work - Carmen’s 25-year career is built on instinct, movement, and saying yes to opportunity.

There’s no linear path here. But there is a pattern.

Follow your gut. Stay close to the industry. Take the next interesting step.

This episode pulls back the curtain on what a tourism career actually looks like - and why the industry has far more depth, opportunity, and longevity than people give it credit for.

What You’ll Take Away

•  Why tourism careers rarely follow a straight path — and why that’s a strength 
•  How early decisions (and non-decisions) shape long-term career direction 
•  What working across Australia and New Zealand teaches you about the industry 
•  The reality of frontline roles — and why they accelerate learning fast 
•  Lessons from major events like the Rugby World Cup 2011
•  The difference between having experience and building capability 
•  Why entrepreneurship is a sharper teacher than most jobs 
•  The hidden career pathways most people don’t see in tourism 
•  Why the industry has a workforce perception problem 
•  How human connection — not systems — defines great tourism experiences 

About Sarah Jane Tilbury

Sarah Jane Tilbury is an experienced tourism and operations leader with a background spanning transport, experiences, and team leadership across Australia and the UK.

She brings a sharp operational lens, a strong understanding of people and performance, and just enough humour to keep Carmen on her toes.

Organisations & Platforms Referenced

• SeaLink: www.sealink.com.au
• Adventure Tours Australia: www.adventuretours.com.au/
• AJ Hackett Bungy: www.bungy.co.nz/
• Tourism Holdings Limited: https://www.thlonline.com/
• Kiwi Experience: https://www.kiwiexperience.com/
• Destination Southern Tasmania: https://southerntasmania.com.au/
•  Tourism Matters Careers (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/company/tourism-matters-careers/
•  carmenbold.com: https://www.carmenbold.com/

Episode Chapters

00:00 – Introduction and role reversal with Sarah Jane Tilbury
 02:00 – Following instinct and staying connected in the industry
 07:00 – Early career decisions and entering tourism
 10:00 – First roles in reservations and industry exposure
 17:00 – Moving to New Zealand and adventure tourism
 22:00 – Bungy, celebrities, and unexpected moments
 29:00 – Rugby World Cup and large-scale event operations
 32:00 – Operational leadership and career progression
 39:00 – Entrepreneurship and the reality of building a business
 44:00 – Industry development, mentoring, and education
 50:00 – Why Tourism Matters exists
 54:00 – Workforce challenges and industry perception
 58:00 – The role of people in delivering experiences
 61:00 – Advice for emerging professionals
 64:00 – Final reflections on career, industry, and opportunity