An update on Clara and Thomas’s story.

In this episode, we hear from Clara White, who updates us on her brother Thomas, who was sentenced in 2012 for the theft of a mobile phone. Thomas was given an IPP sentence with a two-year tariff and has now been imprisoned for over a decade. We last heard from them in our very first episode, ‘Ghost Prisoners’.

Clara has campaigned tirelessly for Thomas’s release and mental health treatment, collaborating with Bishop Mick Fleming of Church on the Street in Burnley. Together, they have fought to have Thomas moved from prison to a secure hospital. Clara’s faith and activism led Mick to call her an “accidental preacher,” and eventually, she began training for ordination.

In the summer of 2025, Clara finally receives the incredible news that Thomas will be moved to hospital: a moment of immense emotion and relief but which also brings new challenges. This is a familiar story for Roddy as his brother Robert makes his own journey from prison to a secure hospital facility.

Roddy also meets David Kirk-Beedon, a former prison chaplain, who discusses his first-hand experiences of the mental health decline that those serving IPP sentences face within the prison system, to whom, he says, the state has a ‘duty of care’.

In September 2025, Roddy attends Clara’s ordination as a minister at Church on the Street. We hear how Clara's faith has helped support her through the many dark moments she and her family have faced since Thomas’s IPP sentence was handed down.

Thomas’s transfer brings newfound hope: he experiences small freedoms like eating with real cutlery and sleeping with his door unlocked. Yet despite his move to a secure hospital, Thomas, like Robert Russell, is still serving an IPP sentence. We close with Bishop Mick’s invocation of Exodus ringing in our ears: “Let my people go.”

Contributors in order of appearance:

Pastor Clara White | https://www.cots-ministries.co.uk/team-members/

Bishop Mick Fleming | https://www.cots-ministries.co.uk/

David Kirk Beedon | author and former Prison Chaplain

Production Credits:

Presenter: Roddy Russell | @1roddyRussell

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald | @Melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge | @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram | @Trapped_Pod

For more info about the IPP campaign: visit UNGRIPP | www.ungripp.com | @UNGRIPP | IPP Committee In Action @ActionIpp | injustice_of_ipp

An Ear Worm Production for the Institute of Now

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The IPP campaign under the spotlight.

The Trapped team report on two new IPP campaigns: one inside and one outside of Westminster, during the Summer of 2025. On 18th July 2025, the Tik Tok campaign group injustice_of_ipp staged a demonstration outside Parliament. Protesters and former prisoners describe the inhumane impact of indefinite detention, including widespread mental health crises and suicides (95 deaths to date).

Inside Parliament, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, a former senior judge, reflects on how the IPP system was 'a failed experiment', intended to predict dangerousness but resulting in unjust, indefinite punishment. In June, 2025 Lord Thomas and The Howard League for Penal Reform published new recommendations to end the “IPP stain,” arguing that the government’s current IPP Action Plan is ineffective. How will the Prison’s Minister, Lord James Timpson, and the government, react?

Read the Howard League’s 2025 proposals to end the detention of people on IPP sentences: https://howardleague.org/news/expert-working-group-publishes-proposals-to-end-the-detention-of-people-on-ipp-sentences/

Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram | @Trapped_Pod

For more info about the IPP campaign: visit UNGRIPP | www.ungripp.com | @UNGRIPP | IPP Committee In Action @ActionIpp | injustice_of_ipp

Contributors in order of appearance:

Deborah Ingram, mother of IPP serving prisoner Levi

Roddy Russell, brother of IPP serving prisoner Robert

Stacey Clough, partner of IPP serving prisoner

Andrew Morris, Former IPP prisoner and Trustee of the Howard League

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales (2013 – 2017)

David Parker, IPP prisoner on licence

Mandy Slade, mother of David Parker

Katie Best, wife of IPP serving prisoner John

Melissa, former prison officer | Off the Cuff with Mel

Andrea Coomber, Chief Executive of the Howard League for Penal Reform | howardleague.org

Voices in archive:

Lord Daniel Moylan

Lord James Timpson, Minister of State for Prisons, Parole and Probation

Production Credits:

Presenter: Roddy Russell | @1roddyRussell

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald | @Melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge | @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

An Ear Worm Production for the Institute of Now

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

An update on Victoria’s story.

We last heard from Victoria in Episode 9 ‘Set Up to Fail’ where she’s known as Madison, because she didn’t want to give away her identity. Victoria is currently serving an IPP in the community. Sentenced to a 3 year tariff at 18, Victoria served 12 years in prison and has since been recalled twice for minor licence breaches. We hear how she’s now rebuilding her life on the outside, having battled severe self-harm, poor mental health, and the lasting psychological impact of indefinite detention.

We also hear from Adrian Usher, the Prison and Probation Ombudsman (PPO). In September 2023, the PPO issued a bulletin called ‘Learning Lessons Bulletin on the self-inflicted deaths of IPP prisoners’ to highlight how the IPPs sentence presents a unique risk factor for hopelessness and suicide. The Chief Executive of the Howard League, Andrea Coomber, explains how most IPP prisoner recalls are for technical breaches, not new crimes. And leading barrister Dr. Felicity Gerry KC, condemns the IPP sentence as cruel, ineffective, and tantamount to ‘state-sponsored torture.’

Finally we meet Victoria’s mum, Karen who describes years of anguish and deteriorating health. Despite some progress, like some probation officers avoiding unnecessary recalls, prison governors becoming more aware of IPPs’ unique needs, and campaigns in Parliament, the uncertainty and hopelessness of the IPP sentence continues to devastate lives.

Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram | @Trapped_Pod

For more info about the IPP campaign visit UNGRIPP | www.ungripp.com | @UNGRIPP | IPP Committee In Action @ActionIpp 

Contributors in order of appearance:

Victoria, IPP prisoner on licence

Roddy Russell, brother of IPP serving prisoner Robert Russell

Adrian Usher, Prison and Probation Ombudsman | ppo.gov.uk

Andrea Coomber, Chief Executive of the Howard League for Penal Reform | howardleague.org

Dr Felicity Gerry KC, Libertas Chambers, London & Crocket Chambers, Melbourne | felicitygerry.com

Karen, Victoria’s mum

Production Credits:

Presenter: Roddy Russell | @1roddyRussell

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald | @Melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge | @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

An Ear Worm Production for the Institute of Now

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An update on Roddy and Rob’s story.

First, we must pass on some heartbreaking news about Josh McRae, whose story we featured in Trapped Episode 16. Josh tragically died at HMP Long Lartin, aged 34 in September 2024. An inquest into the cause of his death is ongoing. Rest in peace, Josh McRae.

More than a year since we last heard from him, we catch up with Roddy Russell whose brother Robert, is still serving an IPP sentence, handed down in 2009.  Roddy travels to Westminster in June 2025 to meet Lord Tony Woodley, whose Private Member’s Bill advocating resentencing for IPP prisoners is on the verge of reaching the ‘Committee stage’, prompting a debate in the House of Lords. Roddy wants to learn more about Lord Woodley's Private Member’s Bill and the prospect of the Bill making any significant changes for those serving IPP sentences.

As the IPP debate commences in the House of Lords on the 4th July 2025, Roddy meets the author and former Prison Chaplain, David Kirk Beedon whose book, ‘Pastoral Care for the Incarcerated: Hope Deferred, Humanity Diminished?’ focuses on the experiences of those serving indeterminate sentences. David provides Roddy with an insight into the inner workings of prison and the Ministry of Justice.

In the immediate aftermath of the IPP debate, we hear from Andrew Morris, Richard Garside and Baroness Fox, who all respond strongly to the Prison Minister, Lord James Timpson's closing speech. With his Private Member’s Bill for resentencing IPP prisoners in limbo, Lord Woodley leaves Roddy with words of encouragement and a rallying call: “we don’t give up”.

Follow us on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram | @Trapped_Pod

For more info about the IPP campaign visit UNGRIPP | www.ungripp.com | @UNGRIPP | IPP Committee In Action @ActionIpp 

Contributors in order of appearance:

Lord Tony Woodley

Roddy Russell, brother of IPP serving prisoner Robert Russell

David Kirk Beedon, author and former Prison Chaplain

‘Pastoral Care for the Incarcerated: Hope deferred, humanity diminished?’ (Palgrave-Macmillan 2022)

Andrew Morris, former IPP prisoner

Richard Garside, The Centre for Crime and Justice Studies

Baroness Claire Fox

Voices in Archive:

Lord Tony Woodley

Lord Edward Garnier

Lord Michael Hastings

Baroness Claire Fox

Lord James Timpson, Minister of State for Prisons, Parole and Probation

Production Credits:

Presenter: Roddy Russell | @1roddyRussell

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald | @Melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge | @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

An Ear Worm Production for the Institute of Now

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Please like, follow and share this podcast to get people listening.

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Theresa and Josh’s story.

Today we hear from Theresa, whose son Josh has been serving an IPP sentence since he was 18. Josh was sentenced to an IPP in 2008 for GBH, he’s now 34. When Sam meets Theresa in May 2024, Josh is still recovering from his recent set-back with the parole board. Theresa has shared an open letter from Josh in prison, written to alert the outside world of his crisis.

We also catch up with Roddy Russell who was featured in Episode 4: A Catch 22 and who has now had the first visit in 4 ½ years with his brother Robert, who is serving an IPP at HMP Swaleside, Roddy doesn’t recognise his brother at first. Roddy also meets the Right Reverend Rachel Treweek, the Bishop of Gloucester, whose diocese covers the Forest of Dean, where Roddy and Robert grew up. Roddy is keen to raise Robert’s plight with Bishop Rachel as she sits in the House of Lords as the Bishop for Prisons. Bishop Rachel wants to see the end of the historic IPP sentences and she has since met Robert in prison to pray with him.

Despite the welcome amendment to the Victim’s and Prisoners Act 2024, which has shortened the license period for IPP prisoners in the community from 10 to 3 years, for the IPP prisoners like Josh who are trapped inside on this indeterminate sentence, it doesn’t help them at all. Against the background of the prison crisis making headlines, a group of leading campaigners send an open letter to the new Labour Government to act quickly on IPPs. Roddy Russell is amongst those who travel to London to hand-deliver the letter to the Ministry of Justice. We hear from Roddy and his fellow campaigners outside of the MOJ as they reflect on the appointment of James Timpson as Minister of State for Prisons, Parole and Probation. Will he and the Labour Government finally put an end to the IPP scandal? Josh has a message for Timpson and the other politicians: ‘imagine I was your son, please help me. I'm begging you.’

Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram | @Trapped_Pod

Trapped Substack: https://trappedpodcast.substack.com/

For more info about the IPP campaign visit UNGRIPP | www.ungripp.com | @UNGRIPP | IPP Committee In Action @ActionIpp 

Contributors in order of appearance:

Theresa, mother of IPP serving prisoner Josh Mcrae

Roddy Russell, brother of IPP serving prisoner Robert Russell

The Rt Revd Rachel Treweek, Bishop of Gloucester and Anglican Bishop for HM Prisons

Marc Conway, IPP prisoner on license

Andrew Morris, IPP prisoner on license 

Richard Garside, The Centre for Crime and Justice Studies

Voices in Archive:

James Timpson, Minister of State for Prisons, Parole and Probation

Credits:

Reporter: Samantha Asumadu | @SamanthaAsumadu

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald | @Melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge | @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

An Ear Worm Production for the Institute of Now

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today’s episode is an exclusive interview with Martin Jones CBE, who was appointed His Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Probation in March 2024. Prior to that, he was Chief Executive of the Parole Board from 2015.

Sam meets Martin Jones at the MOJ building, 102 Petty France, Westminster in July 2024 to discuss the IPP scandal in the shadow of the looming prisons crisis. It had been a big week for criminal justice: the new Justice Minister, Shabana Mahmood had just announced she was dealing with the crisis by allowing the early release of prisoners on standard determinate sentences after serving 40% of their sentences in custody. However, Martin tells Sam that 97% of probation areas are falling short of expectations, an extraordinary figure which starkly highlights a system that is not only in crisis, but has spectacularly failed. Martin’s message to the new government is that they need to invest in an already struggling probation service. The system is broken everywhere and there are no quick fixes. And he says he hopes the new government will “look again” at IPP sentences, which are “hugely costly, hugely burdensome for the system”.

Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram | @Trapped_Pod

Trapped Substack: https://trappedpodcast.substack.com/

For more info about the IPP campaign visit UNGRIPP | www.ungripp.com | @UNGRIPP | And the IPP Committee In Action @ActionIpp

Contributors in order of appearance:

Martin Jones CBE, HM Chief Inspector of Probation | @jones_martinw

Voices in Archive:

Shabana Mahmood, Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor | @ShabanaMahmood

Credits:

Reporter: Samantha Asumadu | @SamanthaAsumadu

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald | @melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge | @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

An Ear Worm Production for the Institute of Now

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rob and Sara’s story. Sam investigates the impact of recall on IPP prisoners in the community. Change is finally coming - how will it affect them? 

Rob was given an IPP sentence in 2008 and he’s been recalled back to prison 4 times since then. His partner Sara is a campaigner with UNGRIPP, The United Group for Reform of IPP: they met through the work she was doing. Sam meets them in Manchester in May 2024, just as the Victim’s and Prisoner’s Bill is making its way towards a conclusion in Parliament. This bill is bringing in significant reforms to the way that IPP prisoner’s licenses work.  

The IPP license period will be changed from 10 to 3 years for termination with a sunset clause which means that if the license is not terminated at the direction of the Parole Board after 3 years, it will be automatically terminated after a further two years. This will have a direct impact on Rob and other IPP prisoners on license in the community, like him. But behind the headlines are real stories about real people, so Sam is keen to find out how prisoners on license like Rob are coping. She also speaks to the prison lawyers Emma McClure and Andrew Sperling and Dr Alice Edwards the UK Special Rapporteur to get their takes on the recall ‘merry-go-round'. 

Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram @Trapped_Pod 

For more info about UNGRIPP visit: www.ungripp.com / @UNGRIPP 

Trapped Substack: https://trappedpodcast.substack.com/

Contributors in order of appearance: 

Rob Dutton, IPP prisoner on license 

Sara Ramsden, Rob’s partner and campaigner 

Emma McClure, Prison Law Solicitor  

Andrew Sperling, Solicitor Advocate @AndrewSperling 

Dr. Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture @DrAliceJEdwards 

Credits: 

Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumadu 

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzg 

Producer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERS 

Consultant: Hank Rossi 

A Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mary and Martin Myer’s story. We also hear from two people who head up their unions, working with IPP prisoners on the front line: the prison officers and prisoner governors.

Martin Myers comes from an Irish Traveller family. They’re a minority group in the UK, often discriminated against. On the 8th March 2006, Martin was given an IPP sentence with a tariff of 19 months and 27 days. Apart from one stint of freedom for 10 weeks towards the end of 2023, he’s been locked away in prison. Today Sam meets Mary, Martin’s mother, to hear their story.

In 2006 Martin received his IPP sentence after he approached a young man in Luton, where he lived, and asked him for a cigarette. The man made a derogatory comment about travellers. Martin threatened to punch the young man if he didn’t give him the cigarette, the man ran away and reported Martin Myers to the police, saying he was carrying a small ‘spud’ knife.

Sam also meets Mark Fairhurst, National chair of the Prison Officers Association and Tom Wheatley, the newly appointed President of the Prison Governors Association. They discuss the underfunded and under-resourced prison system, prison conditions, mental health provisions for IPP prisoners and the aftermath of self-inflicted deaths. They both have strong words for the government with the general election on the horizon. Finally she hears how the campaign continues to fight for resentencing IPP prisoners, as Richard Garside from the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies explains.

Please be advised that this episode contains references to self-harm and suicide.

Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram @Trapped_Pod

For more info about UNGRIPP visit: www.ungripp.com / @UNGRIPP

Thanks to The Howard League for Penal Reform @TheHowardLeague

Contributors in order of appearance:

Mary Myers, Mother of serving IPP prisoner Martin Myers

Ann McMaster, friend and support worker to Mary Myers

Mark Fairhurst, National chair of the Prison Officers Association

Tom Wheatley, President of the Prison Governors Association | @PGA_Prisons

Richard Garside, Director of the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies | @richardjgarside

Voices in Archive:

Sir Bob Neil, former chair of the Justice Select Committee | @neill_bob

Credits:

Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumadu

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

A Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wayne Bell’s story, plus Sam speaks to Dr Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture about her intervention in the campaign for IPP justice.

Today Sam travels to Manchester to speak to Alana Bell, whose brother Wayne Bell was sentenced to an IPP sentence with a 2 year tariff in 2007 for assaulting someone and stealing their bike. He was 17. Wayne is now 34: he’s spent his entire adult life in prison.

Like many other IPP prisoners, Wayne didn't know what an IPP sentence was until he was knocked back at parole. He then made efforts at completing offender behaviour programmes when available, enrolled in a mechanics course, went to the gym. After a parole hearing in 2015, by which point he had been in prison 6 years past his original tariff, he was again knocked back. His health and behaviour deteriorated. On 12 April 2018, Wayne was found in a catatonic state in his cell: conscious but unresponsive. He was transferred to a secure mental health hospital where, once a week, he was given electro­convulsive therapy, a treatment for schizophrenia that felt like another form of punishment. We hear about of the awful toll his IPP sentence has taken on Wayne and his family, who currently don't know which prison he is in.

Sam also speaks to Dr. Alice Edwards, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture. In 2023, a group of IPP campaigners, prisoners, and their families, submitted evidence via the UN's website of sustained human rights breaches as part of the IPP sentence: they got Dr Edward’s attention, and she started looking into the IPP scandal in the UK. In August 2023 Dr Edwards wrote a letter to the British Government calling on "Your Excellency’s Government to conduct a re-sentencing exercise for all remaining IPP-sentenced individuals - and provide them with access to adequate reparation, as appropriate - without delay. We also call on the Government, in the meantime, to step up efforts to secure rehabilitation opportunities for all those affected.” She has also called the IPP sentence “psychological torture”. What has happened since her intervention? Campaigners have warned that reforms are a matter of life and death for IPP prisoners after almost 90 suicides. Are the British government listening?

You can read Dr Edward's letter to the British Government here: https://spcommreports.ohchr.org/TMResultsBase/DownLoadPublicCommunicationFile?gId=28329 

Get in touch with the Trapped team on X, TikTok, Facebook or Instagram @Trapped_Pod

For more info about the IPP campaign for justice, visit UNGRIPP www.ungripp.com / @UNGRIPP / IPP Committee in Action @ActionIpp

Contributors in order of appearance:

Alana Bell, Sister of IPP prisoner, Wayne Bell

Dr. Alice Edwards, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture @DrAliceJEdwards 

Production credits:

Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumadu

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

A Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The inside story of the measures being taken by members of the House of Lords for IPP prisoners in the current parliamentary Victims and Prisoners Bill.

We join Sam on 11th March 2024, three months after the inquest of Matthew Price, an IPP prisoner on license who took his own life, and one day before the Victims and Prisoners bill committee stage in the House of Lords. The two are linked because this bill is being heralded as perhaps the last opportunity for some time to use legislation to finally close the chapter on imprisonment for public protection sentences (IPPs) which the United Nations have called ‘cruel, inhuman and degrading’.

The bill came to the Lords with an amendment which will change the license conditions for IPPs from 10 to 3 years, which might well have saved Matthew Price, who killed himself at the 10-year point of his license. So it's a start, but many think this is not enough, and at this stage there’s an incredible 17 amendments which relate to IPPs, pinned to the Victims and Prisoners Bill. Sam takes us behind the scenes to look closer at the Lord’s amendments, asking how much difference can they make? Can they really change the story on IPPs?

Sam meets Lord Moylan who has been coordinating a group of Lords to table the amendments to the Bill. We hear more about his proposed change to the release test for IPP prisoners. She also sits down with Baroness Claire Fox, who is tabling the amendment on resentencing. This was originally proposed by Sir Bob Neil, Chair of the Justice Select Committee, and was rejected by the government back in 2023. Conservative Peer, Earl Attlee is the Grandson of the famous post-war Labour PM. He has long held an interest in criminal justice. He isn't confident that any of the amendments will get much support once they go back to the Commons and describes the political calculations being made by both the Labour and Conservative front benches.

Sam also catches up with Matthew Price’s lawyers Emma McClure and Andrew Sperling following Matthew’s inquest. The coroner released a Prevention of Future Deaths report on how the IPP sentence contributed to Matthew’s death, urging the Secretary of State for Justice to act and stop any further deaths occurring. This is one of an unprecedented three Prevention of Future Death notices relating to IPP prisoners, which have been sent to the Government this year.

At the Lord's debate on 12th March, the Labour Spokesperson for Justice, Lord Ponsonby and the Conservative Spokesperson for Justice, Lord Bellamy present a united front in opposing Baroness Fox's amendment: is it the end of the road for resentencing IPP prisoners?

Get in touch on X, TikTok, Facebook, IG @Trapped_Pod

Follow the campaigners: www.ungripp.com @UNGRIPP & @ActionIPP

Contributors in order of appearance:

Lord Daniel Moylan

Baroness Fox of Berkeley

John Richard Attlee, The 3rd Earl Attlee

Emma McClure, Consultant Solicitor

Andrew Sperling, Solicitor Advocate

Credits:

Reporter: Samantha Asumadu @SamanthaAsumadu

Executive Producer: Melissa FitzGerald @melissafitzg

Producer: Steve Langridge @SMLANGERS

Consultant: Hank Rossi

A Zinc Media Production for the Institute of Now

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.