Troped Out

Thriller writer May Cobb joins us for a discussion about the complicated women in her novels who break their seemingly perfect lives, how readers weigh the misdeeds of a flawed female character against those of a murderer, and why her stories are set in East Texas.

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Welcome to the latest episode of TROPED OUT PODCAST—a podcast where we interview your favorite (and future favorite) author’s about all things tropes! Today we are chatting with domestic suspense author May Cobb!

May Cobb grew up in the piney woods of East Texas where MY SUMMER DARLINGS, THE HUNTING WIVES and BIG WOODS are set. After college, she moved to San Francisco where she studied Victorian Literature for my Master's, and gravitated towards that era's detective novels, known as "sensation novels", such as Wilke Collins' THE WOMAN IN WHITE. She then lived in Los Angeles for a few years where she worked for filmmaker/writer Ron Shelton and his wife, the actress Lolita Davidovich.

Her writing has appeared in The Washington Post, The Rumpus, Austin Monthly, and Texas Highways Magazine.

Check out May’s full bio on her website, www.MayCobb.com

• The podcast is kicked off by asking what May is reading and loving. May is reading Eliza Jane Brazier’s GIRLS AND THEIR HORSES, which May describes as DALLAS meets BIG LITTLE LIES (which sounds amazing).
• EJ is plowing through Sylvia Moreno Garcia’s backlist (bc she is a huge MEXICAN GOTHIC fan). Up now is VELVET WAS THE NIGHT.
• Emma says she read MY SUMMER DARLINGS this past summer on the beach and it was the perfect landscape to read about these women in this small Texas town doing horrible things to each other.
• Emma is currently listening to WHAT LIES IN THE WOODS by Kate Alice Marshall. She is also on the wild ride of Alice Feeney’s ROCK PAPER SCISSORS.
• Emma says that May Cobb writes toxic friendships so well. They are women that have everything outwardly—but they are determined to blow their lives up.
• Emma asks what is that is so fun to read about toxic female friendships.
• May says she thinks its just so fun because women’s relationships are so complex with layers that you can really dig in to.
• EJ compares messy relationships to the show YELLOWJACKETS. Emma and May are also huge fans. We discuss the cliffhanger of season one and what the writers were thinking (do they know where things are going or at this point, are they winging it?).
• Emma asks May if she has a favorite mean girl from any movie or book or show?
• May likes the character in the movie Heathers. None of us can think of the actress’s name. oh well! As May says, to be blonde and in Hollywood!
• EJ asks May about her favorite hot mess character.
• May loves a storyline where the woman gets to play the role that is traditionally male. Where they do messy things for no reason other than they want to.
• Emma asks May if she’s ran into anyone that has given her the “why are your characters so unlikeable” BS.
• May has stories! She says people are always way more scandalized by the fact that her characters sleep around, than by the murders.
• EJ says that MY SUMMER DARLINGS  is fascinating because the male character knows exactly how to play the women. It is like he moves into town and knows the exact moves to make these women do as he wants. But he never coerces them. It is fascinating that the female characters on the hook, but the male character is not. 
• May agrees. May says that each of her characters are at a crossroads when this man comes into their lives and begins tearing things apart with manipulation. She asks, who among us, if we were in any of these women’s positions, wouldn’t at least have the thought?
• EJ says that the lure of the male character is so charismatic he made her think of a vampire character.
• Boredom is the downfall of wealthy people in small towns. When you can’t go to the opera—you create your own drama.
• Emma says that May’s stories definitely have a strong sense of place—they are Texas to the bone. Was this intentional or did her roots seep into the story as she was creating it?
• May says that she believes it was intentional. She moved back home to East Texas for a while, and that is where she wrote her first book. It felt as if she was channeling something—the place spoke to her.
• She loves the vibey, dark feel of the East Texas woods. 
• It’s time for another round of Troped Out! They explain the rules and get down to it! 
• Predatory Mastermind or Killer Next Door?
• Who the F*ck Did I Marry or Good For Her?
• Back From The Dead or Final Girl?
• Shout out to BettysBookList on TikTok.
• Secret Baby or Secret Twin?

And that is a rap for this episode of TROPED OUT PODCAST!

You can find today’s guest—May Cobb—online:

www.MayCobb.com

Twitter: @maykcobb

Instagram: @may_cobb

Facebook: @maykcobb

May’s books are available everywhere books are sold, including our Troped Out Bookshop, which you can visit to find books from all of our Troped Out guests.

MY SUMMER DARLINGS is available in paperback today! Go grab your copy! And while you’re at it—preorder May’s upcoming release, A LIKABLE WOMAN. And if you haven’t read THE HUNTING WIVES—well do yourself a favor and get on it! 

You can follow Emma and EJ and the podcast across all platforms by following Typo Productions. We are @Typopodcasts. Our website is TypoProductions.com.

EJ is @EJWenstrom across all social media platforms. Her website is EjWenstrom.com. While there, make sure and sign up for the Monstrosity newsletter to receive a weekly updates of extra juicy awesomeness straight to your inbox!  

Emma is (occasionally) on twitter as @EmmaCWellsBooks, but you’ll likely find her on TikTok or Instagram as @Emma.C.Wells.Books. Her website is currently getting a renovation but should be back up soon! 

And sign up for our Troped Out Newsletter to receive special updates!

Welcome to the latest episode of TROPED OUT PODCAST—a podcast where we interview your favorite (and future favorite) author’s about all things tropes! Today we are chatting with Science Fiction author, Malka Older! 

Malka Older is a writer, sociologist, and aid worker.  Her  science-fiction political thriller INFOMOCRACY was named one of the best books of 2016 by Kirkus, Book Riot, and the Washington Post. She is also the author of the sequels, NULL STATES (2017) and STATE TECTONICS (2018), and the full trilogy was nominated for a Hugo Award. She is also the creator of the serial NINTH STEP STATION and lead writer for the licensed sequel to ORPHAN BLACK, both currently running on Realm. Her short story and poetry collection AND OTHER DISASTERS came out in late 2019. Her short fiction and poetry can be found at WIRED, Future Tense, Leveler, Sundog Lit, Reservoir Lit, Inkscrawl, Rogue Agent, Tor.com, Fireside Fiction, and others. She has written opinion pieces for the New York Times, The Nation, Foreign Policy, and NBC Think.

• Em kicks things off by asking Malka what she is reading and loving lately and Malka came prepared! Malka is reading and loving: John Scalzi’s KAIJU PRESERVATION SOCIETY, Cherie Priest’s FLIGHT RISK, THE TOWN OF BABYLON by Alejandro Varela, THE LEFT HANDED BOOKSELLERS OF LONDON by Garth Nix, KILLERS OF A CERTAIN AGE by Deanna Raybourne, Emily Wilde’s ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FAERIES, Richard Osmond’s THURSDAY MURDER CLUB series, and Melinda Lo’s A SCATTER OF LIGHT, MERU by S.B. Divya, and finally Annalee Newitz’s THE TERRAFORMERS.
• EJ comments that Malka’s list covers a wide range of fiction—she wonders if Malka has books that are on her id list and Malka admits that she really loves different takes on Sherlock Holmes stories (so she wrote one!).
• EJ asks Malka what it is that makes a Sherlock-themed book so distinct. Malka explains that she thinks it has to do with the mystery being the focus—not the crime or gore or horror. There is a cerebral aspect that is always present in a Sherlock-style mystery.

Malka says that there is something about neuro-divergence—when you have a character who thinks very differently than everyone around them and is fine-tuned particular approach. Having a flipped approach to how you observe and deduct. Also the relationships. Typically in a Sherlock-style mystery, you will have a relationship between two people (sometimes coded as neurodivergent and neurotypical—but not always). The story unfold between the partners and we can observe the contrast with how they approach the case.

• EJ asks Malka about Narrative Disorder—a disorder that is present in Malka’s book Infomacracy. Malka explains how she came up with the concept of Narrative Disorder and how she folded it into the story. 
• Malka explains how there is a hunger for narratives—an addiction really. When coming up with the idea and concept of Narrative Disorder, she thought of how in the future we would feed this addiction.
• Malka has a new release titled THE MIMICKING OF KNOWN SUCCESSES. Malka tells EJ and Em about her newest book. It is a holmes-ian inspired novel. It is a fun comfort read for a murder mystery. It has dark academia vibes, and also long train rides, rainy weather outside with cozy indoor spaces. And it is set on Jupiter, after mankind has ruined Earth AND Mars.
• EJ has gathered from reading Malka’s other books, that one of the signatures of a Malka Older book is how incredibly international they are. How there is always a wide range of cultures present. EJ asks how she implements this feeling to Jupiter.
• Malka explains her process for creating that same feeling in a book that takes place with Jupiter transplants. Short answer—yes—she pulls it off perfectly! 
• Em speculates that there are a ton of ideas and stories in Malka’s mind and asks how Malka decides which idea to attack and grown into a novel?
• Malka does have tons of ideas, and when she begins she knows characters and ideas—but not a solid plot. The more she explores character and place, the plot becomes evident.
• It’s time to play TROPED OUT!
• EJ starts the game with: Humanity Destroyed Earth or Humanity Destroyed Society?
• Em asks: Big Brother Is Watching or Mega Corporations Rule?
• EJ finishes things up with asking Secret Baby or Secret Robot?
• Em asks Malka and EJ how they’d interpret secret robot.
• (Sci-Fi robot ratatouille. Genius!)

And that is a rap for this episode of TROPED OUT PODCAST!

You can find today’s guest—Malka Older—online at: 

www.malkaolder.wordpress.com

Twitter: @m_older

Instagram: @infomacracy 

Facebook: @MalkaOlder

Malka’s books are available everywhere books are sold, including out Troped Out Bookshop, which you can visit to find books from all of our Troped Out guests.

Malka’s latest book, THE MIMICKING OF KNOWN SUCCESSES (a Most Anticipated in 2023 pick from TODAY.com) releases on March 7. Be sure to pick up your copy!

To stay up to date with Troped Out, visit our website (www.TypoProductions.com) and find us on most social media @TypoPodcasts: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | TikTok

If you enjoyed the show, spread the word by leaving a review. 

Follow the links to learn more about co-hosts Emma C. Wells and E. J. Wenstrom

Welcome to another episode of Troped Out Podcast! I am Emma C Wells. With me is my partner in crime—EJ Wenstrom. And we’ve got thriller author Layne Fargo with us for this episode!

Layne Fargo writes killer books for feminist killjoys. She's the author of the thriller novels Temper and They Never Learn (currently in development as a television show), and coauthor of the bestselling Audible Original Young Rich Widows. She also co-created, co-hosts, and produces the podcast Unlikeable Female Characters on Lit Hub Radio.

Layne lives in Chicago with a rescue pit bull and cat who are best friends, and the only man she never wants to murder (well, almost never). When she's not plotting twisted stories, she enjoys long walks in the local cemetery, binging trashy TV shows, and spending all her money at indie bookstores.

• EJ insists we start by talking about the trashy TV shows because she just finished Love is Blind season 3 on Netflix.
• Layne’s favorite at the moment is FBOY Island on HBO Max–which she rates as absolute garbage.
• Em wants to watch Love is Blind because she’s heard a lot about it. Her agent might be obsessed with it. 
• E.J. concurs. It’s hard to stop watching–though somehow her spouse watched seasons 1 and 2 with her and then declined to watch season 3, leaving her in trashland alone. 
• Layne’s partner pretends not to want to watch but then is always nearby when it’s on. 
• Em says we’re lucky, her husband is over here watching stuff like “10 ways to make your own knives.” Or they watch food shows. 
• Food shows! EJ recommends Chef’s Table on Netflix. (And insists she’s not sponsored by Netflix.)
• Everyone agrees being sponsored by Netflix would be a sweet deal. 
• But Chef’s Table: They feature amazing chefs doing innovative stuff, like this butcher in Tuscany who serves these elaborate multi-course meal that uses every part of the animal. 
• Speaking of using every part of the animal, Em’s been reading TENDER IS THE FLESH, which she deferred until after THanksgiving before it turned her vegan. 
• But the next titles in her TBR were BONES AND ALL and A CERTAIN HUNGER.
• For the record BONES AND ALL is actually a really endearing coming-of-age story but also the girl eats people. Bones and all.
• It’s also going to be a movie soon, starring Timothy Chalamet.
• EJ appreciates someone else bringing the cannibalism aspect to the podcast for once. 
• Layne calls it: Female cannibalism is having a mini-trend moment in fiction. 
• A CERTAIN HUNGER was actually released from indie publisher Unnamed Press and gained traction on TikTok and became a huge success. We love these stories! It also started as an Audible Original. 
• Speaking of Audible Originals, let’s talk YOUNG RICH WIDOWS.
• Layne co-authored it with three other authors–Kimberly Belle, Cate Holahan, Vanessa Lillie–-each of them wrote one of the core characters. 
• They’re working on the sequel right now!
• EJ wonders what it’s like working with a group as an author, since it’s usually a loner role. 
• They wrote it during COVID over Zoom, and it was almost like a TV writers’ room. It was fun!
• This book was more campy and rompy than what Layne usually writes, so it was a fun change of pace.
• It was set in the ‘80s and they wanted it to feel like an ‘80s movie with capers and crimes and fabulous clothes. 
• We love super-campy here!
• Em asks if when you write for audiobook first, do you approach the writing any differently? 
• A little–Layne said they focused a lot on distinct voices and a cinematic feel. 
• She’s working on a separate project that will be fully scripted with sound effects and original music and stuff. 
• Based on her other books, EJ is ready for one of the widows to end up being the killer. But NO SPOILERS. 
• We love our murdery, rotten women. 
• Layne agrees, a murdery femme fatale is one of her favorite tropes. 
• Em asks if she has a favorite stabby woman character in books, tv, etc.?
• It’s hard to choose but Layne does love Villanelle–she likes a murderer who is enjoying herself! 
• She’s gotten criticism for writing murdery women who don’t feel bad about it, but she insists they have no conflicted feeling about it. 
• Em appreciates that since the new Taylor Swift album Midnights dropped, THEY NEVER LEARN has come through her TikTok feed a lot with ‘Vigilante Shit.’
• Layne says ‘Vigilante Shit’ is her jam! Her sales definitely went up when that started. She’s ready for the TV so they can use it as the theme song. 
• We’re all big fans of the rotten women here – Em also wrote a stellar murdery woman and shares amazing teasers for it on TikTok even though it’s not out yet!
• So why do we love these very very bad women? 
• When you write a female character who enjoys killing it’s a real hangup for publishing. 
• Even more so if she has sex, has a normal life, etc. 
• You can’t even have a normal, generally good female character without someone having a gripe. 
• For Layne it’s wish fulfillment–men make her angry sometimes, especially those in the public eye and in politics. Even if it’s not murder, there’s just something satisfying about celebrating women behaving badly. In books, we don’t have to suffer the real life consequences. 
• Em points out there’s no “unlikeable male character” trope – only women. For men it’s just a character.
• EJ adds it almost feels political to write unlikeable women.
• Em remembers reading GONE GIRL–she fell in love with Amy Dunne and never looked back. She needed more books like this.
• Also, counting down for the release of MY LOVELY WIFE.
• Layne remembers GONE GIRL as a formative moment as an author. Before Gillian Flynn came out, she heard two women talking about how much they hated Amy, but they were there, and they were so fired up. The story drove them to finish and come out to see the author. 
• Em asks if Layne has a favorite of her books, or one that she feels most represents what she’s about.
• Layne’s favorite is TEMPER. But a lot of readers seem to prefer THEY NEVER LEARN.
• The one she’s working on now is more like TEMPER.
• Em got to learn a lot ab...

• Welcome to season 2 of Troped Out. Today we are talking with young adult author Charlene Thomas!
• We ask Charlene what she is reading and loving right now.
• Charlene says this is her first podcast. She is reading for spooky season, JACKAL by Erin E. Adams. It is spooky, small town. Girls disappearing in the woods—so spooky and perfect for Halloween! 
• Charlene is dipping her toe into an adult manuscript for the first time (we are *very* excited).
• We ask, what does Charlene feel is the dividing line between adult and YA?
• Charlene says, of course character age, however, that isn’t always the case. It can be the tone of the story. That teens can digest a lot of serious subject matter—but the tone is different in YA. YA tends to be more optimistic, whereas in adult—you can be a little darker without redemption.
• SETON GIRLS tackles some difficult issues.
• The book tackles privilege, and SA, through the lens of high school. The teens in SETON GIRLS are in a place to become a part of the solution or a part of the problem. Teens are malleable and ready to be part of the change. Whereas adults a lot of time are more set in their ways. 
• Emma rambles for a moment as she tries to voice her thoughts without giving spoilers.
• Charlene does a fantastic job of creating a story that presents the struggle felt when someone you think you know and likes, is actually doing a bad thing. We discuss the intricacies of creating such a story and presenting it in a way that rings true with teens.
• Charlene says that she is hoping to open up the conversation a bit more, even though she (nor anyone else) has the full answers. And at what point does someone change from a person who made a mistake into a bad person?
• Charlene discusses why Aly is the narrator of SETON GIRLS. She is a part of Seton, but also a kind of outsider. We get to discover Seton through Aly’s eyes as she herself is learning the truth of the private school.
• Aly is a scholarship kid with more to lose than many of the characters in Seton. She has major stakes in the story.
• Time to play TROPED OUT!
• Sick Kid Lit OR Dystopia?
• First Love OR Disillusioned With Society?
• Dead Parents OR Generation Wars?
• Secret Baby OR Secret Villain?

We had such a blast chatting with Charlene. You can find SETON GIRLS everywhere books are sold—but we’d appreciate it if you checked out our TROPED OUT book shop (link below). 

TROPED OUT Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/shop/TropedOut

All of our episodes are available on www.TypoProductions.Com

You can find our hosts on all social media platforms—but they’ve been loving TikTok.

EJ WENSTROM is @ejwenstrom

EMMA C WELLS is @emma.c.wells.books (for all things bookish) and @thatadhdauthor (for all things querying, ADHD, and more).

CHARLENE THOMAS is online at www.CharleneThomasBooks.com

You can find her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Charlene_Thomas

You can find her on Insta: https://www.instagram.com/charlenethomasbooks/

Consider adding SETON GIRLS on Goodreads, and if you’ve read it and loved it—leave a review on your fav retailer/book review site! 

Welcome to a new episode of Troped Out Podcast! I am Emma C Wells. With me is my partner in crime—EJ Wenstrom. Today we are chatting with adult romance author Brighton Walsh.

USA Today and Wall Street Journal bestselling author Brighton Walsh spent a decade as a professional photographer before taking her storytelling in a different direction and reconnecting with her first love—writing. She likes her books how she likes her tea—steamy and satisfying—and adores strong-willed heroines and the protective heroes who fall head over heels for them. Brighton lives in the Midwest with her real life hero of a husband, her two kids—one who’s already taller than her and one who’s catching up too fast—and her dog who thinks she’s a queen. Her boy-filled house is the setting for dirty socks galore, frequent dance parties (okay, so it’s mostly her, by herself, while her children look on in horror), and more laughter than she thought possible.

• Brighton observes she’s overdue to update her bio–now, both her kids are taller than her. And she’s tall herself!
• Em starts us off with our favorite question to ask every author: What are you reading right now?
• It’s the year of the reverse harem! Brighton has already read 160 of them this year. She just started the UNTOUCHABLE series by Heather Long
• Big question from EJ: How many men does it take to make a reverse harem? Brighton says three men or more–two is only a menage.
• Em wonders, is she mostly a contemporary reader or does she branch into paranormal or other subgenres? Brighton reads mostly contemporary.
• Back when Em was trying to get into Pitch Wars, the program did a Q&A tour for the mentors to introduce themselves, and Em remembers Brighton’s answers left an impression…
• One question was about sending your character on adventures, clearly meant for very different kinds of stories. Brighton answered that for her romance books, she guessed the adventures were the weird sex positions! It made Em snort-laugh.
• Em wants to know if anyone watched THE LOST CITY? Brighton has! EJ hasn’t made it yet. 
• The casting was perfect, they all agree. 
• Brighton notes that a lot of films about the romance genre can diminish it in how it pokes fun, but this one didn’t do that. 
• But it still had fun with the tropes–only one hammock, anyone?
• EJ always likes to see how publishing is portrayed in film and tv – did it feel accurate or did they fudge it a little?
• Oh no, they fudged it. Brighton explains how the publisher felt small or boutique, but somehow also had a massive budget for a book launch. It was clearly a Nora Roberts, million-dollar caliber author. 
• And then…the publisher comes to save her. All agree an agent is much more likely to come to an author’s rescue in real life. 
• Ultimately, EJ says as a fan of YOUNGER she’s comfortable with some inaccurate publishing rep, it can still be a fun story. She endorses.
• Em enjoyed that the villain was after the author heroine because of very, very niche information she’d researched to include in a book–this tracks. Authors know very strange, random stuff. 
• Bright says she’s gotten not lazy–ingenious–with her research by asking her social network if they know anyone who’s an expert in an area she needs info for, and it almost always gets her a connection to someone. 
• Em wants to know the weirdest thing everyone has researched for a book. 
• Brighton once had to research criminal stuff like how chloroform works for her CAPTIVE and EXPOSED duet, where the main characters are criminals. 
• Em has had to find out if you can sneak things into a hospital waste incinerator. 
• EJ once researched impalement history and methods for a story. 
• Brighton also has to research impalement–just a different kind. 
• Em sighs–at least it wasn’t cannibalism. 
• Speaking of cannibalism, EJ just finished YELLOWJACKETS finally. 
• Which led her to reflect on enemies to lovers, which is central to Brighton’s new release, DEFIANT HEART. It’s been really hot lately, and she wonders if it’s on any level an escapism thing, because our world is so polarized these days. 
• So let’s talk about Brighton’s book!
• DEFIANT HEART: EJ wants to know, is there cannibalism? Sadly there is not. But someone does get eaten, Brighton says. So there’s that. 
• DEFIANT HEART is the first book in the STARLIGHT COVE series. It’s based in Maine with the MacKenzie family, focused on siblings who are trying to save their family’s resort. 
• Luna, the heroine of book one, is what Brighton calls a moon goddess–hashtag van life. 
• Brady, the hero, is sheriff of Starlight Cove–very controlled, very rigid. 
• He’s arrested her many times and this time, it’s getting in the way of an opportunity for the resort. So he must find a way to keep Luna from ruining it. 
• EJ says she thought the teaser blurb for the book was genius–it subtly cues to the big tropes found in the book! Enemies to lovers! Sunshine character! Small towns! Handcuffs!
• Brighton assures it is steamy. 
• Brighton loves to write opposites attract because it sets a protagonist against the worst possible person for them and then figure out how they can work. 
• Em likes best friends to enemies to lovers. 
• Best friends to lovers used to be Brighton’s favorite, and she doesn’t know what switched, but she’s transitioned to enemies to lovers. She loves the idea that someone could see you at your worst and still want you anyway. She thinks that’s really reassuring. 
• Does she have a favorite? Brighton calls out THE HATING GAME and HOTHEAD. The HOTHEAD transition between the characters is flawless - a great study for authors who want to write this. And also for readers who enjoy a grumpy hot athlete hero.
• Em asks if Brighton knows about Roy Kent?
• Oh heck yes she does. 
• For EJ, PRIDE AND PREJUDICE is the enemies to lovers OG. Her other favorite for enemies to lovers is THE CRUEL PRINCE by Holly Black. It’s a YA fantasy with a fae world, and the two leads are so equally matched for wits in a game driven by manipulation and strategy. 
• EJ says it took her a long time to come around on enemies to lovers because the enemies dynamic can get so problematic. 
• Em agrees and says it can require a little more suspension of disbelief than some other romance tropes. Grumpy and sunshine is her favorite.
• Brighton loves that one too. 
• When she jumped into the reverse harem books this year she started with ROYALS OF FORSYTH, which is a bully reserve harem, with trigger warnings galore (readers, check those before reading!)
• But she felt the way the author brought these heroes together was masterful. 
• At once point Brighton caught herself taking issue with something the heroine did in retaliation for what they had done to her and was amazed at the way the author had turned everything around.
• Em’s read a lot of romance, but she hasn’t read dark romance. 
• Brighton avoided it for a long time too, but feels the...

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Today we are chatting with webtoon creator Emmy Paxman!

• Today we are chatting with Emmy Paxman. She writes the webtoon NEPTUNE BAY. She is active on Instagram as @EmmyPaxman. Thank you for joining us today, Emmy! 
• Emmy is our very first webtoon creator! 
• Emmy explains how modern comics have become a very exciting place for tropes. 
• Em tells the story of how she knew she wanted Emmy to come on Troped Out as a guest. It all began with himbos (as it does).
• Emmy has opinions on himbos! 
• Em asks Emmy to explain what a webtoon is for our listeners and goes on to say that Emmy is a very prolific creator. She has completed 47 episodes, full color (beautiful watercolor) episodes.
• Emmy got into graphic novels in her early 20s, though she didn’t consider herself a comics person until she was a bit older. She thinks this is because she didn’t read superhero series. Her early exposure was with newspaper comics such as CALVIN AND HOBBES.
• The turning point for her was discovering manga. And then the discovery of web comics.
• Emmy said in the early 2000s there was a movement toward a scrolling comic. Scrolling comics began in South Korea—like much of the greatest parts of pop culture. Once smart phones took over, webtoons exploded.
• Emmy feels that scrolling, webtoons comics solved the problem of the best way to read comics.
• Scrolling comics are so bingeworthy.
• EJ points out how some really great art comes from paper comics. She asks Emmy how it transfers over to scrolling comics.
• Emmy says it is a different medium with a different feel.
• Webtoons has a cool story telling device. Only two panels are visible at any time. All of the action must be built vertical. 
• In webtoon you are able to build in surprise. 
• In webtoon it is easier to pace your stories to build suspense. 
• Em talks about how the mood is set from episode one of NEPTUNE BAY. 
• EJ asks Emmy how she’d explain NEPTUNE BAY..
• Emmy says that it is a cross between goofy, fun, rom-coms and a type of video game that she absolutely loves—which is farming simulators.
• It is the story of a young woman name Meg who is needing a change after a bad breakup. She is living on her best friend’s couch, scrolling through a website looking for something to rent when she comes across idyllic Neptune Bay on Neptune Island. There is a slightly run-down cottage, and she dreams of starting a new life.
• Meg’s interactions with Neptune Bay are filtered through the perception she’s built through years of playing simulator video games.
• EJ mentions that hearing Emmy’s description is giving her strong SCOTT PILGRIM vibes. Emmy said it was a direct inspiration.
• Em asks Emmy what tropes make her excited to work.
• Emmy says she likes the slow reveal of how characters have more going on than meets the eye.
• Emmy loves her character Ozzy. He is the bad boy—super cocky. But she’s slowly peeled back layers to show that he is a mess inwardly. 
• When she introduced him, readers immediately didn’t care for him. But Ozzy has surprised everyone (except for maybe Emmy) and become a favorite.
• Emmy loves to take an unlikeable character and gradually shift everyone’s opinion.
• The trio plays Troped Out! 
• Best friend’s sibling OR Friends to lovers?
• Himbo OR Secretly sexy nerd?
• Classic heroic superhero OR Burned out cynical superhero?
• Help! Save me from this vampire! I’m too beautiful to be dinner! OR Show me what you can do with those fangs, you undead sexpot?
• Secret Baby or Secret Millionaire?

You can find Emmy Paxman on social media: 

• Instagram: @EmmyPaxman
• Twitter: @EmilyIrisPaxman
• Webtoon: @EmmyPax or just look for Neptune Bay.
• Check Neptune Bay to see Emmy’s gorgeous artwork!

Enjoy this episode? Leave a review on your favorite podcasting platform!

Thank you for listening to Troped Out. If you like what you heard—consider subscribing and leaving us some stars. To stay up to date on Troped Out, SFF+Girls, and the forthcoming ADHD Creative, follow our production team Typo Productions: @TypoPodcasts across all platforms.
 

To stay up to date with Troped Out and more—follow the team on social media (Instagram is their favorite—but they brave twitter from time to time.) You can find them on most platforms Typo Productions: @TypoPodcasts 

• Instagram: @typopodcasts
• Twitter: @typopodcasts
• Facebook: @typopodcasts
• And always—you can find us at www.TypoProductions.com

Today we are chatting with Young Adult Thriller/Crime Fic author, Andrea Contos.

• Thanks for joining us on a new episode of TROPED OUT. Today we are chatting with award winning, young adult crime fiction author, Andrea Contos. 
• Find Andrea’s books are available everywhere books are sold, including out TROPED OUT bookshop. Her titles are THROWAWAY GIRLS, OUT OF THE FIRE, and TELL ME NO LIES.
• Em kicks things off by asking Andrea what she is currently reading. Andrea replies that she is reading Kit Frick’s newest book—Kit Frick is amazing. 
• Em asks if Andrea reads mostly YA or if she reads other age groups. Andrea says she reads everything. Mostly adult and young adult with a smidgen of middle grade—she has middle grade daughters, after all.
• Em just finished GOOD RICH PEOPLE by Eliza Jane Brazier.
• EJ is reading GHOST WOOD SONG by Erica Waters.
• WE DO OUR OWN STUNTS ON THIS PODCAST
• EJ is also reading GOOD OMENS.
• Em is also reading LIKE A SISTER by Kellye Garrett and THE CHEERLEADERS by Kara Thomas.
• EJ asks Andrea if she’s watched the new Kristin Bell show THE WOMAN IN THE HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE GIRL IN THE WINDOW.
• Andrea hasn’t watched it yet, but wants to. 
• The women talk about crime satire and subtle humor.
• Em asks if EJ and Andrea have watched Yellowjackets.
• Em is VERY BOSSY about how EJ MUST watch YELLOWJACKETS. 
• Em gives a fast and dirty recap of the show.
• Em makes cannibalism jokes (because of course she does).
• Andrea talks about subverting tropes in crime fiction and how dead women often are the impetus to send a detective on their heroes journey. With her writing she purposely presents the idea in a different way. In THROWAWAY GIRLS, one girl finds the body of another and has empathy for the dead girl.
• Her feminism always comes out in her work. She hopes to show that teenage girls have power and show that it is okay for girls to raise their voice and fight for what they believe in.
• EJ discusses tropes and talks about how fun it is to play with familiar tropes to create something completely new.
• Andrea discusses the show THE WILDS.
• Em asks Andrea if she can tell them about creating these stories where teens are balancing becoming adults with solving crimes.
• Andrea says it actually isn’t that hard. She says that plot and pacing are important—but characters are key. 
• Andrea says that TELL ME NO LIES is her favorite thing she’s ever written. It is a story about two sisters who are complete opposites. It is a missing boy trope with a dual timeline. One timeline takes place before the boy goes missing, and one takes place after he goes missing.
• The women chat about how there are few things more complicated than the relationship between sisters.
• It comes back to TRUE BLOOD (because it always comes back to TRUE BLOOD!)
• Em asks Andrea if there is a genre that her readers would be surprised to find that she enjoys.
• Andrea admits she reads everything. She enjoys rom-coms and romance. There is no greater study in relationship and conflict than reading romance.
• Em waxes poetic about romance. Then the women bring it back to GONE GIRL.
• Andrea talks about how in Gone Girl, the twist happens at the midpoint—and it is completely mind-blowing. 
• They play TROPED OUT!
• Serial killer with a heart of gold OR Sleuth who is secretly the killer all along?
• Andrea, EJ, and Em talk briefly about Dexter, Joe, and killers and suspension of disbelief.
• Creepy kids OR Creepy spouse?
• Is EJ’s husband a serial killer? NO HE IS NOT. (Hi, Chris!)
• Grouchy Detective OR Amateur Sleuth?
• Secret Inheritance OR Secret Baby?

You can find Andrea Contos online at:

• Website: www.andreacontos.com
• Twitter: @Andrea_Contos
• Instagram: @AndreaAContos

Check out her books, THROW AWAY GIRLS, INTO THE FIRE, AND TELL ME NO LIES. Available everywhere—but we’d love it if you bought them from our Troped Out Bookshop (www.bookshop.org/shop/tropedout)!

Typo Productions presents TROPED OUT. The podcast for booklovers where we interview your favorite—and future favorite—about all things tropes (and more)!

Today’s guest is Michael Mammay. Michael is a science fiction author whose novels include Planetside, Colonyside, Spaceside, and his latest release—THE MISFIT SOLDIER. All of Michael’s books are available in our TROPED OUT bookshop—link at the bottom of notes.

• EJ asks Michael to start by telling us about his latest book, THE MISFIT SOLIDIER.
• Michael explains that while the book is billed as military science fiction, and that label technically works, this book doesn’t really follow those traditional military SFF tropes. THE MISFIT SOLDIER is a heist novel set in space. It is about a con-man running from the mob and is hiding out in the military, where he finds the opportunity for a big score.
• EJ asks Michael about his other books, and Michael explains about his love of creating rogue characters, and how his books are all technically military SFF, but often follow the tropes of other genres, such as noir mystery.
• Michael explains how his first book is linked to the war in Afghanistan (he was stationed at an Afghanistan air force base when he first had the idea for the novel). The novel takes place in a war—but it isn’t about the war. 
• Em asks if a heist story was something that Michael always wanted to write.
• Michael says the characters for a specific scene in THE MISFIT SOLDIER (space whales!) came first, but the idea for the heist came at near about the same time. 
• Em says that she cannot think of another science fiction (not fantasy) heist story and Michael suggests THE QUANTUM MAGICIAN.
• EJ says that heist stories have sort of transcended into their own genre. That one of the best things about them are the twists. The twists are great—but can also make creating a heist story really difficult. 
• Michael talks about the character tropes in heist stories and how they work in a science fiction genre.
• Michael explains how a heist novel works within a military setting. And how soldiers are unique characters—that he purposely bucked the idea that “all soldiers are the same” in books.
• Em asks Michael if it was difficult to move on from writing a series and if the PLANETSIDE series is truly finished.
• Michael laughs and says he will let us know in a year! The series works as more of three stand alone books than a series with a huge arc. You could read each book on its own—so there is always the possibility of more.
• Michael says he is now working on his dream novel—the book he has been wanting to work on for years.
• His dream book is a story about a generation ship that is reaching its destination—and there is a revolt happening. 
• Michael speaks about his love of the generation ship trope.
• EJ asks Michael if there is a trope mashup that makes him stand up and take notice.
• Michael admits that he doesn’t really follow tropes to that degree—except for possibly generation ship. He loves character-driven stories—more general than specific tropes.
• He says that he has loved time travel/military science fiction as a mashup that shouldn’t work—but worked very well in the case of Kameron Hurley’s THE LIGHT BRIGADE.
• Em and Michael and EJ talk about time travel novels. (Em’s favorite!)
• Michael suggests THIS IS HOW YOU LOSE THE TIME WAR if you love a time travel novel.
• We talk about strengths and knowing what you do well—Michael does pacing amazingly!
• We ask what Michael is reading. He recently finished LIKE A SISTER by Kellye Garrett, and LIGHT FROM UNCOMMON STARS by Ryka Aoki. 
• TIME TO PLAY TROPED OUT!
• Time travel or warp speed?
• Alien abduction (they took you and no one believes you!) or alien invasion (they’re here and no one believes you!)?
• Unified galaxy alliance or space, the final frontier?
• Aliens who want to rule (take us to your leader) or aliens who are down to mingle (take us to your breeder)?
• Secret baby or secret engagement? 
• Michael jokes that the next book in his series should be an only one bed trope—except only one airlock!

Find Michael Mammay across all platforms as @MichaelMammay (links below), and you can visit him online at:

Website: www.MichaelMammay.com
Twitter: www.twitter.com/michaelmammay
Facebook: www.com/Michaelmammay

Michael’s books are available in out TROPED OUT BOOK SHOP. 

You can connect with TROPED OUT PODCAST, as well as EJ and Em’s other pods, by following TYPO PRODUCTIONS across social media at @TypoPodcasts. 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/typopodcasts/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/typopodcasts

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/typopodcasts/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@typopodcasts

You can find EJ at www.EJWenstrom.com

You can find Em at www.EmmaCWells.com 

If you enjoyed this episode—subscribe and leave a review! 

Until next time when we chat with YA crime fic author, Andrea Contos! 

Show notes for TROPED OUT PODCAST brought to you by Typo Productions

Thank you for listening to Troped Out. If you like what you heard—consider subscribing and leaving us some stars. To stay up to date on Troped Out, SFF+Girls, and the forthcoming ADHD Creative, follow our production team Typo Productions: @TypoPodcasts across all platforms.

Today we are chatting with middle grade mystery and adventure author Tom Phillips.

• Tom Phillips debuts his first middle-grade novel, THE CURIOUS LEAGUE OF DETECTIVES AND THIEVES: EGYPT’S FIRE, in June 2022. An artist, optimist, writer, philosopher and retired superhero, Tom  mischievously brings the power of the written word by assimilating everyday lessons into witty and humorous stories of heroism and bravery. 

• Tom really loves Em’s introduction for him, which she did not steal from his website at all. 

• Em has to start by sharing that of all the blurbs she’s ever seen, the one on Tom’s debut is her favorite. 

• A “blurb” is when an author gets other authors or celebrities to share a short quote about their book to put on the cover.

• Tom’s blurb is from LeVar Burton, of Star Trek and Reading Rainbow fame. Talk about nostalgia, right? 

• Tom shares that LeVar is a personal hero of his. As a kid he loved Reading Rainbow, and LeVar and his now-wife visited their area with friends regularly and rented a boat from Tom’s parents’ marina. 

• Tom’s mother used to tell him, “Call LeVar, he’ll give you a job!” And Tom kept telling her, that’s not how this works. Then he moved to LA and was job hunting when Reading Rainbow was rebooted. Tom got a job on the team because they needed an editor – see? His mom told him to call LeVar. 

• Tom says LeVar is exactly who you see – such an amazing man. 

• Em agrees he seems very genuine.

• LeVar has a podcast now: LeVar Burton Reads. If you love books and you aren’t listening to it, Tom is sad for you. 

• Em reminisces that the 90s nostalgia brings her back to that whole era: Bill Nye and Scholastic Book Fairs and the Book It! Pizza Hut program. 

• Tom says they should bring Book It! back, and also do one for adults where you get wine. 

• Em and EJ agree they would do it for the pizza regardless. 

• Pizza Hut! With the booths and the dusty chandeliers and the video games. Good times. Pac-Man. Mario. Choice-Ten. 

• Tom feels most of his curiosity as a child came from Reading Rainbow. 

• Tom grew up in a small town in the mountains, so there wasn’t much culture around other than nature, and reading was a cool escape. 

• They’d drive down the mountain and go into Denver and he and his siblings thought they were the coolest when they got a Happy Meal. 

• Flashback for Em to when Happy Meals came with the Land of the Lost dinosaur puppets. 

• Speaking of books as an escape for kids, writing for kids is so important, especially now. Books can offer a comforting escape. Em asks Tom where the CURIOUS LEAGUE books help kids escape to. 

• Here’s the thing about Tom’s book: It’s insane. 

• It’s about a kid who lives in a museum and is framed for stealing an invaluable ruby. He joins a Willy Wonka-ish detective to catch the Mauve Moth. Kids escape into an old school middle grade zany adventure book–think THE MIXED UP FILES OF MRS. BASIL E FRANKWEILER or THE PHANTOM TOLLBOOTH. 

• But today’s kids have different needs. One of Tom’s biggest issues with the world now is how we handle toxic masculinity. 

• He’s a huge advocate for people being happy, whatever that means for them. As long as you aren’t taking away someone else’s happiness, you’re okay, and have a right to live your life as you see fit. 

• But while we’re pushing for equality we’re leaving young boys behind. In today’s world, the old role for boys is gone, everyone has new roles, but no one is telling boys how to take their role and fit into this new world and change with the times. 

• In CURIOUS LEAGUE, the boy learns the 37 Rules of Being a Good Detective-which are also the 37 rules of being a good man. 

• Example: The first rule is that you learn the most in an interrogation in the silence, not when you’re talking. The message being, you have to listen to the other person, and not spend that time thinking about what you will say next. If you listen, you can understand the other person’s needs and find a solution. 

• You can’t force lessons down kids’ throats. You have to introduce it and let them decide on their own. This book is about John making his choices, and learning that no matter what, he’s responsible for his own happiness. 

• E.J. observes that a kid living in a museum feels like a science nerd spin on ELOISE, who lived in the Plaza Hotel. (Please ignore the dog barks in the background, nothing to see here, we are very professional.)

• Tom elaborates on his inspiration, THE MIXED UP FILES OF MRS. BASIL E FRANKWEILER, in which the kids run away and go live in a museum. That always stuck with him, because he wished he could live in a museum. When he lived in New York City, he went to the American Museum of Natural History maybe three times a week to hang out and draw. 

• His friend pointed out that when you have kids in cities, you designate a landmark so that if a kid gets lost, they have an easy place they can get to so you can reunite–like the Empire State Building. Which is basically what happens in the book: something happens to John’s mother and she never comes to get him, so he just stays there. 

• EJ calls out the big trope of children’s fiction: Where are the parents?

• Em points out how necessary it is–parents don’t let adventures happen.

• Tom adds that if a child has parents, they can’t be lost, and if a child isn’t lost, they can’t be found. And then, what’s the point?

• A good example: In A SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS, all the adults are so dumb, and the kids are really smart. Which is totally how middle grade kids think about adults. 

• Shout out for the Netflix show with Neil Patrick Harris. And the film with Jim Carrey while we’re at it. 

• Em wants to know what Tom’s favorite book was as a kid. 

• THE NEVER ENDING STORY! Tom is dyslexic, so most of his stories were from his sister reading out loud, and she read that one over and over and over. Also THE PRINCESS BRIDE and PETER PAN.

• Em shares that PETER PAN was the first book she read that she felt was a “real” book, the first thick adult book, as a kid. (Side note, ALL books are real books!)

• E.J. never read the book but has the ‘80s TV adaptation burned into her brain for all eternity, VHS recorded with all the commercials. As the ‘80s kid does. 

• Tom has the PETER PAN trivia: Did you know it’s tr...

Thank you for listening to Troped Out. If you like what you heard—consider subscribing and leaving us some stars. To stay up to date on Troped Out, SFF+Girls, and the forthcoming ADHD Creative, follow our production team Typo Productions. That’s @TypoPodcasts across all platforms. Links at the bottom.

Today we are chatting with contemporary romance author Alexandria Bellefleur.

• Alexandria Bellefleur is a bestselling and award-winning author of swoony contemporary romance often featuring loveable grumps and the sunshine characters who bring them to their knees. Her debut novel, WRITTEN IN THE STARS, was a 2021 Lambda Literary Award winner and a 2020 winner of The Ripped Bodice Awards for Excellence in Romantic Fiction.
• Em asks Alexandria what she is reading and loving right now.
• Alexandria is on deadline at the moment and her TBR list is growing, but in her free time she is reading MISTAKES WERE MADE by Meryl Wilsner, THE EX TALK by Rachel Lynn Solomon, and LOVE AT FIRST SPITE by Anna E. Collins.
• EJ asks Alexandria how she comes across the books that she chooses to read—especially advanced copies.
• Alexandria says that she gets a lot of arcs from her agent and editor. Many times, to blurb. She feels very fortunate.
• Em asks if there is a trope that is an instant request for Alexandria Bellefleur.
• Alexandria laughs and says that she is a bit of a trope slut. She hasn’t met a trope that she won’t read—at least in the hands of a good author. However, she really loves forced proximity.
• EJ asks if Alexandria reads many books at once or a book at a time.
• Alexandria admits she reads a book at a time—but she is a fast reader and is fully immersed in the story as she is reading.
• When Alexandria is not on deadline—she can read a book a day. This is amazing to Em and EJ—they fangirl over this fact for a moment. 
• EJ says that she believes that the romance reading community reads a lot and fast. Unlike any other genre she’s seen.
• Alexandria says that romance readers are prolific readers and writers are prolific writers.
• Em says that she thinks it is because romance is so readable because of the emotional arcs of the character. Sure, external plot is important—but that emotional arc is everything.
• Em gives the quick and dirty premise of Alexandria’s book, HANG THE MOON. She asks Alexandria if she has a favorite movie moment that makes her melt?
• Alexandria has a few. One of her favorites is the bleacher serenade in 10 THINGS I HATE ABOUT YOU. She thinks for a moment like this to be swoony and work—it has to be tailored to the characters. It cannot be a cardboard cut-out version of a romantic moment.
• She also likes the painting gift in NOTTING HILL.
• Alexandria tells the hosts about the current book she is working on—she reached the midpoint! The WIP is called THE FIANCE FARCE. The book is a sapphic marriage of convenience between a shy bookstore owner and a newspaper heiress who is moonlighting as a romance novel cover artist. The heiress must get married by a certain time in order to inherit the majority shares in her family’s business. It is best described as a mash-up between A SCOT TIES THE KNOT by Tessa Dare and the 90s rom-com movie, THE BACHELOR.
• Em says she reads across all genres (currently reading SMALL FAVORS by Erin A. Craig, A COSMOLOGY OF MONSTERS by Shaun Hamill, and Alexandria’s HANG THE MOON). And that she has noticed that one thing that Alexandria does amazingly well is characters. Her characters draw you in from their first appearance on the page.
• Is there a trope outside of romance (in any form of story—movies, television, theatre, books, etc.) that Alexandria’s readers would be surprised to find she loves?
• Alexandria says that she loves paranormal. BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER is her go-to comfort show. She especially loves the found-family trope and that paranormal does the trope really well. She also loves the fated mates trope—which is pretty exclusive to paranormal.
• Alexandria defines the difference between found family in contemporary vs paranormal. She points out that she writes queer rom-coms, and it is a common part of the genre for the characters to find/create a community outside of their family and for those friendships to transcend the bonds of friendship into real family. In paranormal you get a lot of “brotherhoods” like a brotherhood of vampires. Or warriors. There is a lot of sworn allegiance. 
• Em says it is big in werewolf books. She is a huge Patricia Briggs fan. Em thinks that a lot of things that would toe-the-line with cheesy in contemporary, just works with paranormal.
• EJ gets salty about the hate that TWILIGHT still gets—she loved the TWILIGHT series. Alexandria is a former Twi-Hard.
• Em says she never read Twilight (a fact she isn’t bragging about—it just never happened). She thinks it is because she saw the movies before reading the book and didn’t care for the movies.
• Alexandria suggests turning the movies into a drinking game. It’s really fun.
• Em asks Alexandria to tell their listeners a little bit about her books.
• Alexandria’s books are a series of interconnected stand-alones. They can be read in any order.
• Written in the stars is a sapphic, opposites-attract, fake-dating, rom-cm between and uptight actuary and a social media astrologer.
• HANG THE MOON follows a dating app creator who is a total romantic and has been in love with his sister’s bestie (who is a little jaded about love) for his entire life. When she comes to town, he decides he will prove to her that romance is real by recreating iconic movie moments from his favorite rom-coms.  Everything backfires.
• COUNT YOUR LUCKY STARS is a sapphic second chance, friends-to-roommates-to-lovers romance featuring a grump who has sworn off love and a wedding planner.
• Em completely steals Alexandria’s term and admits she is a slut for a particular trope. Then apparently completely forgot that she got the term from Alexandria, lol. (Also—Em does the show notes :P )
• Alexandria Bellefleur plays Troped Out!
• Love Triangle or Reverse Harem?
• EJ asks how many people have to be involved for it to be a harem. Alexandria says she thinks maybe five or six. Em says that’s a lot of sex for 80k words! (lol)
• Secret Billionaire or Secret Baby.
• AI Uprising or Clones?

A huge thank you to Alexandria Bellefleur for chatting with us today! You can find Alexandria Bellefleur on Twitter, Instagram and