Sir Alex Younger, who was Chief of the Secret Intelligence Service from 2014 until 2020, explains why he thinks we are “moving into the era of the deal” and why that makes the world “more hazardous”.

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The Today Podcast is hosted by Amol Rajan and Nick Robinson who are both presenters of BBC Radio 4’s Today programme. Amol was the BBC’s media editor for six years and is the former editor of the Independent, he’s also the current presenter of University Challenge. Nick has presented the Today programme since 2015, he was the BBC’s political editor for ten years before that and also previously worked as ITV’s political editor.

This episode was made by Lewis Vickers with Izzy Rowley and Grace Reeve. Digital production was by David Kaplowitz. The technical producer was Dafydd Evans. The editor is Louisa Lewis. The executive producer is Owenna Griffiths.