Joel and Steve are thrilled to have Jack Van Cleave as their guest this week!  Jack and Steve have known each other since 1998 when they were neighbors in the same triplex apartment building.  Their life paths came together and diverged a couple times but they (and Joel) have been in regular communication since 2014. 

Jack is one of the first regular listeners of the podcast, and while he thinks he doesn't 'do anything special' - Jack's journey is interesting and worthwhile.  The fact that he's very funny is an added bonus - this is a super fun conversation!

Be sure to like/follow/subscribe on your preferred podcast purveyor! Follow Joel and Steve on Instagram @TryingToBeBetterPodcast, email at [email protected]! 

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