Joel and Steve talk about... themselves for a change!

Joel got to hang out with past guest Armando McClain, and went took himself downtown to get some good vibes after watching Joker.  

Steve is struggling with so Joel helps him walk through all of that.

They also continue to unpack the concept of 'hope', and discuss an episode of Glennon Doyle's "We Can Do Hard Things" podcast with Tricia Hersey, who is a 'rest evangelist'.  

Be sure to like/follow/subscribe to and review Joel and Steve wherever you listen to podcasts! Follow on Instagram @TryingToBeBetterPodcast, and email at [email protected].

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