Brandon Bostick knows what it's like to have millions of people associate your name with one moment.

An undrafted player out of Division II Newberry College, Brandon earned his way into the NFL and spent five seasons in the league, including three with the Green Bay Packers. The 2014 NFC Championship Game in Seattle and an onside kick that changed the trajectory of his life. Most people know that part. This conversation is about everything that followed.

Brandon takes us inside the moment itself, including something rarely discussed when we watch professional sports: what it actually feels like to make a mistake on one of the biggest stages in the world and then have to stand in front of reporters and answer for it minutes later. He also talks candidly about what came afterward. Brandon continued playing football, but underneath it was depression, anxiety and an identity increasingly tied to what had happened. Years later, when life finally became quiet enough for him to confront it, he sought healing and began rebuilding himself. That process eventually led him somewhere unexpected: back to football.

Today, Brandon is coaching at the University of Minnesota, working with young athletes from a perspective he didn't have when he was one of them. He talks about breathing, mindset, therapy, communication, spirituality and developing the entire person rather than simply building a better football player. We also get into the strange relationship high performers can have with accomplishment. Brandon went from an undrafted Division II player to a five-year NFL career, yet says he rarely stopped long enough to realize he had actually achieved the dream he'd carried since childhood.

His Two Types of People? Talkers and Doers.

People who talk about what they're going to do, and people who do the things they talk about. Maybe there is no better example than Brandon himself. The kid who had to write a letter asking for an opportunity to attend college eventually made the NFL. The player whose football identity was shattered eventually returned to the game as a coach. And the man once known by millions for one mistake now gets to use everything that followed it to help prepare the next generation.

We talk about:

This is not an episode about forgetting what happened. It's about discovering how much life can exist on the other side of it.

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

Rachel Joy Baribeau spent 17 years breaking barriers in sports media, becoming one of the first female hosts on SiriusXM College Sports, one of the few women to vote for the Heisman Trophy, and the only known female sportscaster to complete a professional football training camp. She eventually walked away from that career to launch I'm Changing the Narrative, a movement focused on mental health, purpose, and helping people find hope in life's hardest moments.

Then life changed. She lost both of her parents. She lost her home. She went bankrupt during COVID after an entire year of speaking engagements disappeared in just weeks.

Instead of letting those experiences define her, she asked a different question. Will this make me bitter... or better? That answer became her Two Types of People.

Along the way, we explore some of the most personal and practical ideas we've discussed on the show:

This episode is full of hope. Not because life gets easier. Because Rachel reminds us that our hardest seasons don't have to become our permanent identity. Sometimes the most important decision we'll ever make is deciding what our pain will produce.

This is a very special episode for me in many ways, and I know this will speak to your soul. 

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

Before Alex Boylan became the television host, producer and Chapter One contributor in Two Types of People, he was one half of an unlikely pair of childhood friends racing around the globe for $1 million.

The other half was this week’s guest, Chris Luca.

Chris and Alex had been friends since they were four years old. After college, neither was quite ready to commit to a conventional career. They worked together at a summer camp, backpacked through Europe and kept finding ways to delay the question every young adult eventually faces: What now?

Then Alex found a strange online casting notice for a reality show almost no one had heard of.

Chris agreed to apply under one condition: Alex had to complete the application for him.

That decision eventually placed them in Los Angeles for final casting on September 10, 2001. The following morning, they woke up in their hotel room and watched the September 11 attacks unfold. Production stopped. The future of the show became uncertain. Chris and Alex returned to Jacksonville, took jobs at TPC Sawgrass and waited nearly six months for the call that would change their lives.

When it finally came, they were ready.

Chris takes host Pat Sitkins inside the parts of The Amazing Race viewers never saw: the sleepless nights, the physical exhaustion, the near-missed flights, the strange casting process and the promise he and Alex made before the race began. They would never quit. Someone would have to physically remove them from the course. That promise helped carry them through 44 days of discomfort, chaos and relentless uncertainty, culminating in one of the closest finishes reality television has ever seen.

Winning gave Chris opportunities, money, and a brief taste of celebrity. It also helped him understand what he did not want. While Alex was made for Los Angeles and television, Chris eventually returned to Jacksonville, invested in real estate and built a construction career that has now lasted more than two decades. Today, he is the owner and founder of Call Construction, a Northeast Florida luxury remodeling and custom-home company.

His answer to Pat’s defining question ties the entire story together.

There are two types of people in this world: dwellers and forward thinkers.

The dweller remembers, studies and plans, but can become trapped by the past. The forward thinker takes action and accepts risk, but can move so quickly that they fail to learn from what came before.

Chris believes we need both. Growth does not require erasing the person you were. It requires taking the best of your past with you as you move forward.

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

Dr. Kevin Elko has 39 Championship Rings, earned with Nick Saban, the Pittsburgh Steelers, Philadelphia Eagles, and countless elite athletes. Joined by Monster Energy Senior VP of Sports Mitch Covington, this conversation explores anti-fragility, self-talk, leadership, and the mindset behind sustained greatness.

Dr. Kevin Elko has spent decades helping build championship cultures, collecting 39 championship rings while working with organizations like the Pittsburgh Steelers, Alabama Football, the Philadelphia Eagles, the University of Miami, and athletes including Jalen Hurts, Josh Allen, and Rob Gronkowski. Alongside him is Monster Energy Senior Vice President of Sports Mitch Covington, whose career has helped shape one of the most recognizable brands in sports while working with world champions across motocross, Formula 1, NASCAR, UFC, snowboarding, and beyond.

This conversation isn't about motivation. It's about wiring. And winning.

Kevin and Mitch unpack the ideas that have followed them through decades of coaching elite performers. They introduce the concept of anti-fragility. Not simply bouncing back after adversity, but becoming better because of it. They explain why the conversation you have with yourself matters more than the one you're having with anyone else, why success can quietly create failure, and why identity often determines performance long before talent does.

Along the way, they share stories from Nick Saban's Alabama dynasty, the Philadelphia Eagles' Super Bowl run, working with Rob Gronkowski, Jalen Hurts, Monster Energy athletes, and even the recent UFC event at the White House. Yet the conversation keeps returning to the same question. How do you become the kind of person who continues to grow when life gets difficult?

Some of the biggest ideas from this episode include:

• Why resilience isn't enough and what it means to become anti-fragile

• The difference between being inspired and being wired

• Why Kevin believes self-talk is the foundation of performance

• Nick Saban's approach to evaluating attitude before talent

• The Lion vs. Greyhound analogy that has become one of Kevin's signature frameworks

• How Rob Gronkowski used Kevin's "earworms" before every playoff game during Tampa Bay's Super Bowl run

• Why success can become dangerous if you're not paying attention

• The role identity plays in confidence, leadership, and sustained excellence

Whether you're leading a company, coaching a team, building a career, or simply trying to become a little better than you were yesterday, this episode offers a fascinating look inside the mental frameworks that continue to show up at the highest levels of performance.

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

What separates people who dream from people who actually build extraordinary lives?

After producing thousands of hours of television and working alongside some of the biggest names in entertainment, four-time Emmy Award-winning producer Shane Farley has developed a unique perspective on that question.

Throughout his career, Shane has helped shape hit shows including Steve Harvey, The Voice, The Rachel Ray Show, The Wayne Brady Show, The Rosie O’Donnell Show, and many more. His job has never simply been producing television. It's been recognizing what resonates.

One story continues to stand out.

When Shane met Alex Boylan after his Amazing Race win, he assumed he'd follow the same path as everyone else trying to stay in television. He didn’t. Instead of waiting for opportunities, Alex started at the bottom, logging tapes at a production company, slowly building the career that would eventually lead to DreamJobbing, The College Tour, and becoming one of the most respected creators in educational television.

Shane's Two Types of People:

Dreamers. And dreamers who do.

That single observation becomes the foundation for a conversation about execution, confidence, storytelling, branding, reinvention, and why the people who accomplish remarkable things usually aren't the loudest people in the room.

Along the way, Shane shares:

Whether you're building a business, leading a team, creating content, or simply trying to turn ideas into action, this conversation is a reminder that remarkable careers are rarely built by dreaming alone.

CHAPTERS

QUOTABLE MOMENTS

"Alex is equal parts dreamer and doer."

"Everybody says they want it. Very few actually do it."

"There was no way I was getting that job... but I knew I was getting that job."

"I was packing an Emmy because the show had just been canceled."

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

Lorena Segura has built a career by embracing new opportunities.

An actress, television host, The Amazing Race competitor, and host of the Spanish-language editions of The College Tour, Lorena has spent her life proving that success doesn't always follow a straight line.

In this episode of Two Types of People, she reflects on the tension between focus and exploration, what it means to reinvent yourself without losing yourself, and why some people are wired to dedicate their lives to one pursuit while others are called to experience many.

Lorena also opens up about walking away from acting, the identity shift that followed, and how she's learned to stop viewing every pivot as failure.

Along the way, we revisit The Amazing Race, discuss working with Alex Boylan on The College Tour, and explore one of the recurring themes emerging throughout this entire project:

Sometimes growth isn't about holding on.

Sometimes it's about letting go.

Those who dedicate themselves to one pursuit... and those who are called to explore many.

A football signed by Bill Belichick and thrown to her husband by Kobe Bryant. A one-of-one story that perfectly captures the unexpected connections that shape a life.

"Seven Nation Army" - The White Stripes

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

A recent episode and Chapter One in "Two Types of People" introduces you to Alex Boylan. This conversation takes us to the original Amazing Race Season One finish line. 

Brennan Swain is the winner of the very first season of The Amazing Race, a champion adventure racer, accomplished patent attorney, and one of Alex Boylan's closest friends for more than two decades.

In this episode, Brennan shares what it was like helping launch one of the most successful reality television franchises in history, how adventure became a catalyst for growth, and why some of life's biggest opportunities begin with simply taking the first step.

We also explore his Two Types of People answer:

Those who are on time and those who are always late.

A simple answer (and one of my top pet peeves) that opens the door to a much bigger conversation about habits, discipline, preparation, competitiveness, and the routines that shape our lives. Along the way, Brennan shares stories from Amazing Race, adventure racing around the world, climbing Kilimanjaro, his friendship with Alex Boylan, and the life lessons that continue to guide him 25 years after crossing the finish line.

• Winning the very first season of The Amazing Race

Instagram: @brennanswain

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

Jeff Schroeder

Before he became "America's Favorite" Houseguest on Big Brother, competed on The Amazing Race, went Around the World for Free, and built a career in television, Jeff Schroeder was just trying to figure out what came next.

In this episode of Two Types of People, Jeff joins Pat Sitkins for a conversation about resilience, opportunity, mindset, and the moments that change the trajectory of a life.

Jeff shares the unlikely path from bouncing to the next job to reality television, world travel, hosting opportunities, and eventually building a life and family alongside fellow Big Brother winner Jordan Lloyd.

Along the way, he reflects on the lessons learned from Alex Boylan, the kindness he experienced traveling the world with no money in his pocket, the impact of losing his mother, and why he believes every success in his life started with a simple decision: believing he could.

In This Episode

Jeff Schroeder's Two Types of People

People who think they can.
People who think they can't.

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

Alex Boylan has spent most of his life saying “yes” before he felt fully ready.

From moving to Brazil alone at 15 years old… to winning The Amazing Race 2… to building a career producing travel television and creating The College Tour, Alex has consistently leaned into discomfort, curiosity, and opportunity.

But this conversation goes way beyond television.

Alex and Pat Sitkins discuss:

One of the most thoughtful, grounded, personal, and hopeful episodes of Two Types of People so far.

CHAPTERS

QUOTABLE MOMENTS

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers. 

Austin Tovey isn’t asking for permission to live his life, and this episode has one overarching theme - taking ownership.

Professional foilboarder, innovator, and waterman Austin Tovey joins Pat Sitkins to talk about the evolution of foiling, the freedom found in the ocean, and the mindset required to keep progressing when most people stop.

From his early days with now fellow pro rider Noah Flegel, designing his own pro model board with Armstrong Foils to interactions with legends like Jerry Lopez and Mickey Munoz, Austin shares how discomfort, ownership, and obsession have shaped both his sport and his life.

This episode dives into accountability, persistence, mental resilience, and the difference between people who embrace hard things… and people who spend their lives avoiding them.

Streaming now on all platforms.

Main Themes

Quotable Moments

“There are no bad waves. Only poor equipment and a lousy attitude.”

“Once it clicks and you get that bug… you’re locked in.”

“You must persevere and keep pushing until you accomplish it.”

“All my days are better now because of foil.”

“Some people don’t want to look bad at something new.”

Chapters

00:00 — The Pro Model Board & Building Something to Last

About the Show

Two Types of People is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Bestselling Author, Agency CEO, and Executive Producer Pat Sitkins - exploring the patterns, decisions, and mindsets that shape high performers across business, sports, and culture.

The show features conversations with contributors to the book Two Types of People: Insights from Top Performers to Help You Make Decisions, Act, and Grow and other leaders whose experiences bring the framework to life. The book is currently available for pre-order at all major retailers.