Rev. Dr. Jürgen von Hagen, the senior pastor of Free Evangelical Church in Mülheim an der Ruhr, Germany, and professor of economics at the University of Bonn, Germany, joins Rev. Bayly at the Michigan house for a free-ranging conversation on Ukraine, Putin, German church history, the European economy, and leadership.

A quick summary of Jürgen's view: Putin won't be satisfied with Ukraine.

Two books referenced in the show, both by Timothy Snyder:

Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin

The Road to Unfreedom: Russia, Europe, America

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Out of Our Minds Podcast: Pastors Who Say What They Think. For the love of Christ and His Church.

Out of Our Minds is a production of New Geneva Academy. Are you interested in preparing for ordained ministry with pastors? Have a desire to grow in your knowledge and fear of God? Apply at www.newgenevaacademy.com.

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Intro and outro music is Psalm of the King, Psalm 21 by My Soul Among Lions.

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