在這一集的 Uncertain Pathfinders Podcast 中，我們展開一場有點不一樣的對話——這次的起點，不是來自職場上的連結，而是來自一段更貼近生活的人際關係。（English Below)

在這集以中文為主的節目中，我們邀請到的來賓是魚魚老師，她曾是主持人 Jeffrey 女兒的幼兒園老師。當我們得知她即將離開教職，踏上一條全新的道路——進入室內設計領域時，也引發了一個問題：

👉 當我們像「離水之魚」一樣跳出舒適圈，去迎接新的挑戰時，那會是什麼樣的感受？

在這段對話中，Jeffrey、Miranda 和魚魚老師，一起探索轉換跑道所帶來的不確定性、重新成為新手所需要的勇氣，以及在全然陌生的環境中，如何面對那種「格格不入」的感覺。

我們談到她對教學的熱愛、個人價值與家庭期待之間的拉扯，以及那些看似安靜卻深具力量的練習——像是寫日記，如何幫助她在過程中持續與自己保持連結。

在對話的過程中，我們也輕鬆地延伸到「小費包」的哲學，並一起思考：當我們逐漸長大，該如何持續學習、成長，並勇敢地挑戰自己。

這是一段關於轉變、關於自我認同，以及關於那些夾在其中的過渡空間的故事——在這些空間裡，「不確定」始終扮演著重要的角色。

🔗連結：

Uncertain Pathfinders website

Uncertain Pathfinders IG

魚魚老師IG

Connect with Uncertain Pathfinders

In this episode of the Uncertain Pathfinders Podcast, we step into a different kind of conversation—one that begins not from a professional network, but from personal connections. On today's Chinese-language episode, our guest, 魚魚老師, was the previous preschool teacher to the daughter of one of our hosts, Jeffrey. When we learned she would be leaving teaching to pursue a new path in interior design, it sparked questions:

👉 What does it feel like to suddenly jump out our zone of comfort to pursue new challenges, like a fish out of water?

In this conversation, Jeffrey, Miranda, and 魚魚老師 explore the Uncertainty of changing careers, the courage it takes to become a beginner again, and what it means to feel like a “fish out of water” in a completely new environment. We talk about her love for teaching, the tension between personal values and family expectations, and the quiet practices—like journaling—that help her stay connected to herself along the way. Along the journey, we even take a playful detour into the philosophy of 小費包, and reflect on what it means to keep learning, growing, and challenging ourselves as we get older.

This is a story about transition, identity, and the spaces in between—where Uncertainty plays a major role.

🔗Links:

Uncertain Pathfinders website

Uncertain Pathfinders IG

魚魚老師IG

Connect with Uncertain Pathfinders

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Welcome to the Uncertain Pathfinders (UP) Podcast, where we invite listeners, hosts, and guests to embrace uncertainty and unlock new possibilities. (中文往下👇）

This episode is Part 2 of our series, “Spotlight on Uncertainty: Joyful Curiosity,” released in the lead-up to Mental Health Awareness Month. As part of this series, we’re highlighting perspectives from mental health professionals on how we can better understand and navigate uncertainty in our lives.

In Part 1, we heard from mindfulness practitioners John Ho, Bernice Chai, and Joanna Chen, who shared their experience collaborating on a mindfulness workshop at COSCUP Taiwan 2025, a major open-source technology conference. Together, they guided tech professionals through a wide range of mindfulness practices—demonstrating what can happen when people step into uncertainty and choose to create something together.

In this episode, we continue that story with licensed art therapist Stephy Hsu, joining us remotely from Vancouver. Stephy shares her personal journey with uncertainty, her work in art therapy, and her perspective that uncertainty is always present—the key lies in how we choose to respond to it.
We also explore her upcoming transition into entrepreneurship as she prepares to launch Soulverse in May 2026.

🎧 Tune in to hear how creativity, mindfulness, and “joyful curiosity” can transform our relationship with uncertainty.
If you enjoy this episode, feel free to leave a comment, share your thoughts, or connect with us to learn more about 1-on-1 career and life coaching or team workshops focused on embracing uncertainty, communication, and growth.

Links:

• Uncertain Pathfinders website

• Uncertain Pathfinders IG

• Service Inquiries with UP

• Stephy Hsu's Linkedin

• Stephy's IG

• COSCUP 2025 information

• HealYou website

歡迎來到 Uncertain Pathfinders（UP）播客，在這裡，我們邀請聽眾、主持人與來賓，一起擁抱不確定，並解鎖更多可能性。

本集為系列節目 「不確定焦點：喜悅的好奇」第二集，於迎接心理健康意識月之際推出。我們透過邀請心理健康領域的專業人士，分享如何理解並與不確定共處。

在第一集中，我們邀請了正念實踐者 John Ho、Bernice Chai 與 Joanna Chen，分享他們在 COSCUP Taiwan 2025（台灣大型開源科技年會）合作帶領正念工作坊的經驗。他們與科技社群一同體驗多元的正念練習，也展現了當人們願意踏入不確定、共同創造時，能夠開展的可能性。

在本集中，我們邀請到 持證藝術治療師 Stephy Hsu，從溫哥華遠端加入對話。Stephy 分享她與不確定的關係、她在藝術治療中的實踐，以及她如何看待「不確定始終存在，而關鍵在於我們如何回應它」。同時，我們也談到她即將於 2026 年 5 月創立 Soulverse 的創業旅程。

🎧 歡迎收聽本集，一起探索創造力、正念與「喜悅的好奇」如何轉化我們與不確定的關係。
如果你喜歡這一集，歡迎留言分享你的想法，或與我們聯繫，了解更多關於 一對一職涯與人生教練，以及協助團隊學習如何擁抱不確定、提升溝通與促進成長的工作坊。 🌿

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Spotlight on Uncertainty: Joyful Curiosity (Part 1) (中文往下👇）

Welcome to the Uncertain Pathfinders (UP) podcast, where we ask listeners, guests, and the hosts to invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility. This episode is breaking new ground for a number of reasons :

• The first episode where the host and UP founder, Jeffrey, records solo without a co-host

• We break the episode up into two parts, where we invite a guest from abroad to record remotely (licenced Art Therapist, Stephy Hsu (Yi-Hsuan)

• We go with an entirely different structure

On part one of this two-part episode, we invite three professionals from the mental health industry to join us in the studio. They are mindfulness practitioner, John Ho, mindfulness facilitator and MBSR instructor, Joanna Chen, and founder of New Life and Certified Health and Wellness Consultant, Bernice Chai. Rather than going with our usual format, the three of them join Jeffrey in the studio to help shine a spotlight on a story that applies a successful case-study of inviting Uncertainty to produce magical moments and valuable professional contributions. 

John Ho, who resides in Portland, Oregon, took a chance and submitted a mindful session proposal for the COSCUP Taiwan 2025 tech conference.  And to his surprise, it was accepted by the organizer team and furthermore, he was given a 3 hour time slot. After earning that honor, John made the bold decision to reach out to the three other guests on today’s episode (as well as Stephy and Jessie Chang, founder of HealYou, and another previous guest on the UP podcast). At the time, John had briefly met Jessie in Taiwan over coffee chats and only knew the others from their online presence. He made the uncharacteristic choice to connect with all of them, and invited Uncertainty by asking them if they would like to co-lead a 3 hour session at the tech conference.

This episode highlights what happens when 5 strangers invited Uncertainty and said yes to unlocking possibilities of working together on a specific project. This episode is the first time they have come back together since that experience. They share what was going through their mind throughout the experience, and how the overall process has changed their views on Uncertainty in a positive note.

Below are more links related to the episode:

• www.uncertainpathinders.com

• https://www.instagram.com/uncertainpathfinders/

• John Ho’s Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnho/

• Bernice Chai’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernicechaiwellness/

• Joanna Chen’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joannachen-yunchih/

• Stephy Hsu’s Linkdedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yi-hsuanhsu/

• Jessie Chang’s Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/taofang-chang/

• HealYou: https://www.healyou.io/

Thanks again for listening. Please be sure to leave any comments about the episode, and we look forward to part 2 with Stephy as we lead up to Mental Health Awareness month in May. If you are interested in connecting with UP for 1-1 career or life coaching, or if your organization is interested in workshops focusing on inviting Uncertainty, embracing Failure, and constructive conflict through applied improv and nonviolent communication (NVC), please contact us through our pathfinders connection form: (https://forms.gle/J8qLqKsLferEZk8f8 ) or e-mail at [email protected] . Let’s continue to Invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility!

🌿 不確定焦點：喜悅的好奇心（上）
歡迎來到 Uncertain Pathfinders（UP）播客，在這裡，我們邀請聽眾、來賓與主持人，一起邀請「不確定」，並解鎖更多可能性。
這一集對我們來說具有多重突破的意義：

• 這是主持人暨 UP 創辦人 Jeffrey 首次單獨錄製，沒有共同主持人

• 本集分為上下兩部分，並邀請來自海外的來賓遠端錄音（持證藝術治療師 Stephy Hsu（Yi-Hsuan））

• 我們採用了全新的節目結構

在這個兩集系列的上集，我們邀請了三位來自心理健康領域的專業人士來到錄音室。他們分別是：
正念練習者 John Ho、正念引導師暨 MBSR 講師 Joanna Chen，以及 New Life 創辦人暨認證健康與健康顧問 Bernice Chai。
不同於以往的節目形式，這一集三位來賓與 Jeffrey 一同聚焦在一個故事上——一個透過「邀請不確定」而創造出奇妙時刻與專業價值的成功案例。
居住在美國俄勒岡州波特蘭的 John Ho，曾大膽嘗試，向 COSCUP Taiwan 2025 科技大會 提交一場以正念為主題的提案。令他驚喜的是，該提案不僅被主辦單位採納，還獲得了一個長達三小時的時段。
在獲得這個機會之後，John 做出了一個大膽的決定——他主動聯繫本集的三位來賓（以及 Stephy 和 HealYou 創辦人、曾上過 UP 播客的 Jessie Chang）。當時，John 只是在台灣與 Jessie 有過簡單的咖啡交流，而對其他人則僅止於網路上的認識。

他選擇跨出這一步，主動建立連結，並邀請「不確定」——詢問他們是否願意共同帶領這場三小時的工作坊。本集呈現了當五位原本幾乎互不相識的人，選擇邀請不確定並說「是」，共同投入一個具體合作時，會發生什麼樣的故事。這也是他們在那次經驗之後，首次再次聚在一起。他們分享了整個過程中的心境變化，以及這段經歷如何正向地改變了他們對「不確定」的看法。
🔗 相關連結

• 官方網站：www.uncertainpathinders.com

• Instagram：https://www.instagram.com/uncertainpathfinders/

• John Ho 的 LinkedIn：https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnho/

• Bernice Chai 的 LinkedIn：https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernicechaiwellness/

• Joanna Chen 的 LinkedIn：https://www.linkedin.com/in/joannachen-yunchih/

• Stephy Hsu 的 LinkedIn：https://www.linkedin.com/in/yi-hsuanhsu/

• Jessie Chang 的 LinkedIn：https://www.linkedin.com/in/taofang-chang/

• HealYou：https://www.healyou.io/

再次感謝你的收聽！
歡迎留言分享你對本集的想法，我們也期待在下一集（下集）與 Stephy 一起，迎接五月的心理健康意識月。
如果你有興趣與 UP 進行 1 對 1 的職涯或人生教練合作，
或你的組織有興趣舉辦以「邀請不確定」、「擁抱失敗」，以及透過應用即興與非暴力溝通（NVC）來促進建設性衝突的工作坊，
歡迎透過我們的 Pathfinder 聯繫表單與我們聯絡：
👉 https://forms.gle/J8qLqKsLferEZk8f8
或來信：[email protected]
讓我們一起持續邀請不確定，並解鎖更多可能性！ 🌿

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Welcome to the Uncertain Pathfinders (UP) Podcast, where we invite guests, co-hosts, and listeners to embrace uncertainty and unlock new possibilities in life and work.
In this episode, co-hosts Jeffrey and J are joined by Hellena Jang—an improv coach, improviser, and facilitator from Seoul, South Korea, and founder of the Korean improv group Imfrog. (中文往下👇）

Together, they explore Uncertainty through the lens of improvisation, cultural exchange, and personal growth.
The conversation dives into questions many of us face:
💡How do we deal with the fear of uncertainty?
💡How do we discover what truly makes us happy?
💡And how do we balance careful planning with the courage to embrace the unknown?

Drawing from Hellena’s experiences in improv and international collaboration, the discussion explores how improvisation can help us navigate uncertainty with curiosity, creativity, and resilience.
Topics in this episode include:
🎭 Improv as a tool for navigating uncertainty
🌏 Cultural perspectives on uncertainty in Korea and beyond
✨ Connecting the dots that form the “messy and magical” lines of life
📉 Plateauing in our learning journeys and how to move forward
💡 Finding our passions and staying relevant in changing environments
👕 The unexpected story behind Kodak apparel
📖 The role of storytelling and connection in improv
This conversation is for anyone exploring creativity, career direction, personal growth, or the courage to step into the unknown.

🔗 Links related to this episode:

• Uncertain Pathfinders Website

• Uncertain Pathfinders IG

• Hellena' IG

• Imfrog's IG

• Hellena's Linkedin
  

🙏 Thank you for listening to the Uncertain Pathfinders Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a comment or share your thoughts.If you have a story about uncertainty, creativity, or life transitions, we’d love to hear from you—and you may even join us on a future episode.
If you’re interested in 1-on-1 career or life coaching, or workshops on applied improv, team collaboration, or Nonviolent Communication (NVC), please connect with us through the Pathfinder Connections Form (合作探索表). Let’s continue to Invite Uncertainty and Unlock Possibility.

歡迎來到 Uncertain Pathfinders (UP) Podcast。在這個節目中，我們邀請來賓、主持人以及聽眾，一起 邀請不確定性（Uncertainty），解鎖更多可能性（Unlock Possibility）。
在這一集節目中，主持人 Jeffrey 和 J 邀請來自 韓國首爾的即興教練、即興演員與引導者 Hellena Jang，同時也是韓國即興團體 Imfrog 的創辦人，一起從 即興劇場、文化交流與個人成長 的角度探討「不確定性」。

節目中，我們一起思考一些許多人都會面對的問題：
💡我們如何面對 不確定帶來的恐懼？
💡如何找到 真正讓自己快樂與投入的事情？
💡又如何在 規劃人生與擁抱未知之間取得平衡？
透過 Hellena 在即興表演與跨文化合作中的經驗，我們一起探討 即興如何幫助我們以好奇心、創造力與韌性面對不確定的世界。
本集討論的主題包括：
🎭 即興如何幫助我們面對不確定性
🌏 韓國與不同文化對「不確定」的觀點
✨ 連結人生中那些「混亂卻又神奇的點與線」
📉 學習旅程中的停滯與突破
💡 找到真正讓自己熱愛的事情並保持成長
👕 Kodak 服飾背後意想不到的故事
📖 即興中的故事敘事與人際連結
這一集特別適合對 創意、個人成長、職涯探索，以及如何勇敢面對未知 感興趣的朋友。
🔗 本集相關連結：

• Uncertain Pathfinders Website

• Uncertain Pathfinders IG

• Hellena's IG

• Imfrog's IG

• Hellena's Linkedin

🙏 感謝收聽 Uncertain Pathfinders Podcast。
如果你喜歡這一集的內容，歡迎在留言區分享你的想法與回饋。如果你也有關於 不確定性、創意或人生轉折的故事 想分享，也歡迎與我們聯繫，也許你會成為未來節目的來賓。如果你對 一對一職涯或人生教練，或是 應用即興（Applied Improv）、團隊合作、非暴力溝通（NVC）工作坊 感興趣，歡迎透過 Pathfinder Connections 合作探索表 與我們聯繫。讓我們一起繼續擁抱不確定，解鎖新可能！
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Welcome to the Uncertain Pathfinders (UP) podcast, where we ask listeners, guests, and co-hosts to invite Uncertainty and unlock Possibility! Join Jeffrey and Miranda on this episode as we explore the multifaceted nature of Uncertainty through personal stories, cultural insights, and creative expressions. （繁體往下👇）

Our guest on this episode is Karin (Hoang Khanh Linh), a multimedia creative specialist, video editor, and graphic designer from Vietnam. She goes against the algorithm and bluntly shares her experiences with failure, cultural pressures, and the beauty of embracing Uncertainty in life and work. She's also our first guest to bring a ukulele into the studio and even surprises us with a song!

Links related to this episode:

• Uncertain Pathfinders website

• Uncertain Pathfinders IG

• Karin's Linkedin

• Can't Stop Singing music video (Karin sings this song)

Welcome to get in touch with UP through our Pathfinder Connections form. We will gladly invite you to the studio to share your stories of Uncertainty. In addition, please reach out if you are facing Uncertainty for career and life coaching services, or if your team would like to receive workshops that focus on nonviolent communication (NVC) for constructive conflict, applied improv for team collaboration, or Lumina Spark workshops for greater self-knowledge and team rapport! Let's continue to invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility!

Leave a comment and share your thoughts:

歡迎收聽 Uncertain Pathfinders（UP）Podcast！
在這裡，我們邀請聽眾、來賓與共同主持人一起 邀請不確定性，開啟更多可能。
在本集節目中，Jeffrey 與 Miranda 將透過個人故事、文化觀察與創意表達，一起探索 不確定性的多重樣貌。

🎙 本集來賓介紹
本集來賓是來自越南的 Karin（Hoang Khanh Linh）——一位多媒體創意專員、影片剪輯師與平面設計師。
她選擇逆著演算法前行，真誠而直接地分享自己面對失敗、文化期待，以及在生活與工作中擁抱不確定性的經驗與美感。
她同時也是 第一位帶著烏克麗麗走進錄音室的來賓，甚至在節目中驚喜獻唱 🎶！
🔗 本集相關連結

• Uncertain Pathfinders 官方網站

• Uncertain Pathfinders Instagram

• Karin 的 LinkedIn

• 〈Can’t Stop Singing〉音樂影片（Karin 演唱）

📩 與 Uncertain Pathfinders 聯繫
歡迎透過 合作探索 表單 與我們聯繫，我們很樂意邀請你走進錄音室，分享你與不確定性共處的故事。
如果你正在面對職涯或人生中的不確定性，也歡迎與我們聯絡，了解 個人教練服務；
或若你的團隊有興趣進行以下主題的工作坊，也請隨時與我們接洽：

• 非暴力溝通（NVC）：建設性衝突對話

• 應用即興（Applied Improv）：團隊合作與協作

• Lumina Spark：自我覺察與團隊關係建立

讓我們一起，持續邀請不確定性，解鎖更多可能 ✨

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(中文往下👇）Welcome to the Uncertain Pathfinders (UP) podcast, the show where we ask listeners, co-hosts, and guests to invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility. On this episode, we welcome Jasmine Chuang into the studio for an exciting episode where she shares her "Uncertain Miracle," amongst other things.

Jasmine has a full list of certifications, and her passionate, inspiration-driven energy have been helping to drive her to set up icoach Taiwan, a platform that bridges a community of coaches across Taiwan to better serve each other, as well as lift up the overall coaching ecosystem. Jasmine is an executive coach, a Lumina Spark Practitioner, as well as an NLP Master Coach. She leads workshops and 1-1 corporate coaching in Taiwan, enjoys hiking, is a member of Business Network International (BNI), and is a self-proclaimed "AI addict" who powers her solopreneurship with the help of her digital teammates.

On this episode, co-hosts Jeffrey and Miranda chat with Jasmine and discuss topics including:

• connecting Uncertainty with fun and adventure

• clever Christmas gifts

• the best AI tools to use for launching a solopreneur service

• discoveries made along a family hiking trip in Japan

• battles with depression

• bridging solo ventures with community support

• facing Uncertainty with confidence during the second half of our lives

Suggested links:

• Uncertain Pathfinders website

• Uncertain Pathfinders IG

• Jasmine's Linkedin

• icoach tw

• Jasmine's coaching

• Jasmine's FB

Thanks again to Jasmine for joining the podcast. For anyone interested in joining us in the studio as a podcast guest, or 1-1 coaching inquiries related to Uncertainty, and workshops connected with team collaboration, nonviolent communication, and applied improv, please connect with UP through our pathfinders connections form here. Let's continue to invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility!

歡迎來到 Uncertain Pathfinders（UP）Podcast——一個邀請聽眾、共同主持人與來賓，一起 擁抱不確定、解鎖新可能 的節目。
在本集節目中，我們邀請捷思敏教練來到錄音室，帶來一集充滿能量與驚喜的對話，分享她的「不確定奇蹟（Uncertain Miracle）」，以及更多人生與職涯中的探索故事。

Jasmine 擁有完整且多元的專業認證，她充滿熱情、由靈感驅動的行動力，也推動她創立了 icoach Taiwan——一個連結全台教練社群的平台，讓教練彼此支持，同時提升整體教練生態系的影響力。

她是ICF ACC 企業績效教練，NLP高階教練，Lumnina Spark認證執行師，長期在台灣帶領工作坊與企業一對一教練對話。她熱愛登山健行，是 BNI（商業網絡國際） 的一員，也自稱是「AI 成癮者」，善用數位夥伴為她的獨立創業注入強大動能。

在這一集中，共同主持人 Jeffrey 與 Miranda 與 Jasmine 一起聊到：

• 將「不確定」與 玩心與冒險 連結在一起

• 充滿巧思的 聖誕禮物

• 啟動獨立事業時，最實用的 AI 工具

• 一趟日本家庭登山旅行中的深刻發現

• 與 憂鬱症 的對話與掙扎

• 如何在獨立創業中，連結社群的力量

• 在人生下半場，帶著自信面對不確定

🔗 推薦連結：

• Uncertain Pathfinders 官方網站

• Uncertain Pathfinders IG

• Jasmine 的 LinkedIn

• icoach Taiwan

• Jasmine 的教練服務

• Jasmine 的 Facebook

再次感謝 Jasmine 參與本集節目。如果你有興趣成為 Podcast 來賓、探索與「不確定」相關的一對一教練對話，或為你的團隊尋找關於 協作、非暴力溝通（NVC）與應用即興（Applied Improv） 的工作坊，歡迎透過 Pathfinder Connections 合作探索表 與我們連結。
讓我們一起，持續 邀請不確定，解鎖新可能！

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(中文往下👇）
On this episode, co-hosts Jeffrey and Miranda invite Holistic Life and Health Coach, Julie Chang to the studio to invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility.

They discuss the importance of embracing uncertainty, the journey of a holistic health coach, and the role of poetry and storytelling in understanding oneself. The conversation also touches on cultural identity, relationships, and the challenges of writing, culminating in a mini-coaching session that highlights the obstacles faced in the creative process.

Chapters
00:00 Embracing Uncertainty in Life
02:31 Introducing Julie Chang: A Holistic Health Coach
05:58 The Journey to Becoming a Coach
08:53 The Role of Coaching in Personal Growth
11:50 Finding Value in Coaching
15:19 Roots in Multiple Places: A Personal Reflection
18:49 Exploring New Ventures and Experiences
24:00 Mystery Items and Personal Connections
27:54 Paw Patrol and Kids' Entertainment
29:19 Exploring Sound Healing with Tuning Forks
33:31 Coaching Session: Overcoming Writing Obstacles
45:59 Reflections on Uncertainty and Future Aspirations

Related Links:
Uncertain Pathfinders website
UP Instagram
Multilingual Cafe TW
Julie's Linktree info
Larks Improv Theatre
Pathfinder Connection form合作探索表

Thanks again for listening, and thank you to co-hosts Jeffrey and Miranda, as well as special guest Julie Chang. For anyone interested in sharing their story of Uncertainty on our podcast, seeking career or life coaching, or teams looking for workshop facilitation focusing on collaboration, nonviolent communication, and greater team cohesion, connect with us using the Pathfinder Connection form above. Let's continue to invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility!

在本集節目中，共同主持人 Jeffrey 與 Miranda 邀請 整合式身心健康教練 Julie Chang 來到錄音室，一起 邀請不確定，解鎖新可能 🌱
在這場深度對話中，他們探討了擁抱不確定的重要性、成為整合式健康教練的旅程，以及詩、故事與自我理解之間的關係。對話也延伸至文化認同、人際關係，以及創作與書寫所面臨的挑戰。節目後段，Julie 更帶領了一段 即時迷你教練對話，實際呈現創作過程中常見的內在阻礙與突破時刻。

🎧 本集章節

00:00 在生活中擁抱不確定
02:31 介紹來賓：整合式健康教練 Julie Chang
05:58 成為教練的旅程
08:53 教練在個人成長中的角色
11:50 教練價值的再思考
15:19 多重根源：一段個人反思
18:49 探索新的嘗試與經驗
24:00 神秘物件與個人連結
27:54 汪汪隊與兒童娛樂
29:19 探索音叉療癒的世界
33:31 教練示範：突破書寫的卡關
45:59 關於不確定與未來的反思

🔗 相關連結

• Uncertain Pathfinders 官方網站

• UP Instagram

• Multilingual Cafe 台灣多語言咖啡

• Julie 的 Linktree 資訊

• Larks Improv Theatre

• Pathfinder Connections 合作探索表

再次感謝你的收聽，也謝謝共同主持人 Jeffrey 與 Miranda，以及特別來賓 Julie Chang。
如果你也有一段與「不確定」共處的故事，想成為 Podcast 來賓；或正在尋找 職涯／生命教練、或為你的團隊尋找關於 協作、非暴力溝通與團隊凝聚力 的工作坊引導，歡迎透過上方的 Pathfinder Connections 合作探索表 與我們連結。

讓我們一起，持續 邀請不確定，解鎖新可能 ✨

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（中文往下👇）In today’s episode of the Uncertain Pathfinders Podcast, hosts Jeffrey and Miranda welcome guest Sharon Ho, a philosophy student and marketing specialist from Indonesia currently studying in Taipei.

We begin with a word that doesn’t translate neatly into English—but many people, especially college students, know the feeling well:

混 (hùn) — pronounced “hwoon” (similar to moon, but with an h).
混 can look like drifting, going through the motions, or loosening effort when clarity hasn’t arrived yet.

It’s often misunderstood as “not caring,” but 混 can be a protective, transitional state—a way of resisting false certainty, conserving energy, or simply being honest about not knowing.

In this conversation, Sharon shares her journey as an international student with mixed Taiwanese and Indonesian heritage, navigating uncertainty through philosophy, marketing, identity, and life between cultures. She reflects openly on her first years at university—periods of confusion, anxiety, low motivation, and the pressure to “figure it all out.”
Together, we explore:

• the emotional weight of uncertainty in university life

• how philosophy can help us sit with not-knowing

• the overlap between philosophy, marketing, and storytelling

• cultural identity, language learning, and personal growth

• and why 混 may sometimes be a necessary phase before clarity emerges

The episode closes with a look toward the future—Sharon’s uncertainties, her curiosity, and the exciting possibilities ahead.

If the idea of 混 or Uncertainty resonates with you, we invite you to reflect, comment, and connect with us. At Uncertain Pathfinders, we believe that inviting Uncertainty can unlock possibility.

👉 Reach out through the Pathfinder Connections form（合作探索表） if you’d like to collaborate, explore 1-on-1 career or life coaching, or bring workshops to your team focused on leveraging Uncertainty, embracing failure, and navigating constructive conflict through Nonviolent Communication (NVC).

Related Links:

• Uncertain Pathfinders Website

• Uncertain Pathfinders IG

• Uncertain Pathfinders Linkedin

• Sharon's Linkedin

• Sharon's IG

• Mentorshift

• Songshan Cultural and Creative Park松山文創園區

• Tiny Hills Coaching

Invite Uncertainty. Unlock possibility. Press play together.

在本集 Uncertain Pathfinders Podcast 中，主持人 Jeffrey 與 Miranda 邀請來自印尼、目前就讀於台北的哲學系學生與行銷專才 Sharon Ho 一同進行對話。

這一集，我們從一個很難直接翻成英文，但許多人（特別是大學生）都能深刻感受到的狀態開始：
混（hùn）。混，看起來可能像是在混日子、隨波逐流，或是在還沒找到方向前，暫時不那麼用力。

它常被誤解為「不在乎」，但對很多人來說，混其實是一種過渡狀態與自我保護——在答案尚未出現前，拒絕假裝自己已經知道。

在這段對話中，Sharon 分享了她作為一名擁有台灣與印尼背景的國際學生，如何在哲學、行銷、身分認同與跨文化生活中，與不確定性共處。她也誠實談到大學前兩年的掙扎——迷惘、焦慮、缺乏動力，以及「應該要趕快想清楚未來」的壓力。
我們一起探索：

• 大學生活中的不確定與焦慮

• 哲學如何幫助我們安住在不知道之中

• 哲學、行銷與說故事之間的交會

• 文化背景、語言學習與自我成長

• 以及為什麼「混」，有時其實是走向清晰前的必要階段

在節目的最後，我們也聊到未來——Sharon 正在面對的不確定，以及解鎖新可能的機會。

如果「混」或「不確定性」這個主題對你有所共鳴，歡迎留言、提問，或與我們連結。在 Uncertain Pathfinders，我們相信：擁抱不確定，能解鎖新的可能。

👉 歡迎透過 Pathfinder Connections 合作探索表 與我們聯繫，無論是合作、一對一職涯／人生教練，或為你的團隊設計關於不確定性、失敗學習、以及以 非暴力溝通（NVC） 為基礎的工作坊。
擁抱不確定，解鎖新可能，一起按下播放鍵。

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(English below) 在本集 Uncertain Pathfinders（UP）Podcast 中，共同主持人 Jeffrey 與 Olof 邀請即興表演者、演出者、旅遊產業專業人士、抱石愛好者，同時也是戲劇治療學習者與引導者的 「J」 走進錄音室。

三人一同探索 不確定性（Uncertainty）、戲劇治療（Drama Therapy），以及如何透過故事、即興與遊戲，促進個人成長與自我理解。對話中也談及如何打破既有標籤、在舊有關係中嘗試新的開始，並透過一個個「微型人生實驗」，測試不同的可能性。
本集內容也深入討論：

• 遊戲在理解情緒與內在狀態中的角色
• 關係如何影響我們的成長與選擇
• 透過搭便車（Hitchhiking）等經驗，展開自我探索之旅

整段對話強調：擁抱不確定性，是通往可能性的道路；而真正的連結，存在於此時此刻——「當下的永遠（the forever of Now）」。

重點亮點與收穫（Highlights & Takeaways）

• 不確定性為人生帶來新的可能與成長
• 戲劇治療的力量，協助探索創傷與情緒
• 遊戲是一種理解感受的強大工具
• 搭便車作為人生不可預測旅程的隱喻
• 真正的連結，發生在當下的此時此刻
• 跨文化經驗有助於挑戰與鬆動既有成見

章節（Chapters）
00:00 不確定性與可能性的開場
06:05 戲劇治療的探索與影響
12:29 遊戲在理解情緒中的角色
18:09 人生選擇中的不確定性
25:53 關係與個人成長的反思
28:35 關於愛與時間的思考
30:50 緊急應變與文化觀察
35:37 危機中的幸福感
44:21 自我探索的實驗
51:19 關係中的不確定性導航
相關連結（Links）

• Uncertain Pathfinders 官方網站
• 小C的FB (Su Cecil)
• Formosa Improv Group（FIG）福爾摩沙即興組合
• Uncertain Pathfinders Instagram
• The Hutong
• 關於 David Read Johnson 與心理健康
• J 的Linkedin
• Uncertain Pathfinders合作探索表

感謝你收聽 Uncertain Pathfinders Podcast。
在這裡，我們邀請主持人、來賓與聽眾一起 擁抱不確定性，解鎖新可能。
歡迎與我們連結、走進錄音室，或與我們聯繫，了解 一對一生涯與人生教練，以及關於團隊合作、建設性衝突、擁抱不確定性的工作坊。
UP 的方法論結合了 Co-active Coaching、Lumina Spark、應用即興（Applied Improv）與非暴力溝通（NVC）。
歡迎在留言區寫下你的想法，
或來信至 📧 [email protected]

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Show Introduction:
In this episode of the Uncertain Pathfinders (UP) podcast, co-hosts Jeffrey and Olof welcome fellow improviser, performer, travel industry professional, bouldering enthusiast, drama therapy student and facilitator, “J” to the studio. Together, all three of them explore the themes of Uncertainty, drama therapy, personal growth through storytelling and improvisation, as well as breaking stereotypes and testing new beginnings in old relationships through tiny life experiments. They discuss the role of play in understanding emotions, the impact of relationships on personal development, and the journey of self-discovery through experiences like hitchhiking. The conversation emphasizes the importance of embracing Uncertainty as a pathway to unlocking possibilities and highlights the beauty of the present moment, and the “forever of Now!”

Highlights and takeaways include:

• Uncertainty leads to new possibilities and growth.
• The power of drama therapy helps to explore trauma and emotions.
• Play is a powerful tool for understanding feelings.
• Hitchhiking as a metaphor for life's unpredictable journey.
• The present moment is where true connection happens.
• Exploring different cultures challenges preconceived notions.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Uncertainty and Possibility
06:05 Exploring Drama Therapy and Its Impact
12:29 The Role of Play in Understanding Emotions
18:09 Navigating Uncertainty in Life Choices
25:53 Reflections on Relationships and Personal Growth
28:35 Reflections on Love and Time
30:50 Emergency Preparedness and Cultural Insights
35:37 Finding Happiness in Crisis
44:21 Experiments in Self-Discovery
51:19 Navigating Uncertainty in Relationships

Links:

• Uncertain Pathfinders website
• 小C’s FB
• Formosa Improv Group (FIG) 福爾摩沙即興組合
• Uncertain Pathfinders Instagram
• The Hutong
• About David Read Johnson and mental health
• J’s Linkedin
• Pathfinders Connections (services and collaboration form)

Thank you again for listening to the UP podcast, where we ask co-hosts, guests and listeners to invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility. Welcome to connect with us, join us in the studio, or reach out to us for 1-1 career and life coaching or workshops related to team collaboration, constructive conflict, and embracing Uncertainty. UP uses methodology related to Co-active coaching, Lumina Spark, applied improv, and Nonviolent Communication (NVC). Please write us a message in the comments, or send an e-mail to [email protected]! 

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Welcome to the Uncertain Pathfinders (UP) podcast, where we ask guests, hosts, and listeners to invite Uncertainty and unlock possibility. On this episode, Jeffrey and guest co-host, Olof, invite Chairman and CEO of Pershing Technology Services Corporation (PTSC), Sean Chen, and AI Technical Manager, Karnan Gopalakrishnan to the studio. This invitation is a long-awaited reunion of sorts, as prior to starting UP, Jeffrey worked with both during his 5 year tenure as PTSC's Chief Learning Officer (CLO).

In this engaging conversation, the hosts and guests explore the multifaceted nature of Uncertainty, particularly in the context of AI and personal experiences. They discuss the balance between structure and flexibility in professional settings, the emotional challenges of personal relationships, and the importance of embracing Uncertainty as a pathway to growth and innovation. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, they highlight how Uncertainty can lead to unexpected opportunities and deeper connections with others.

Episode highlights include:

• A.I. as a significant part of our past, present, and future
• Temperature in relation to Uncertainty and coding
• Transitioning from single life to cohabitation with a partner
• Running a business while balancing structure, flexibility, and Uncertainty
• Uncertainty prior to exiting the womb
• Leaving one's home country and finding a new home in abroad
• Traveling with animals
• Aging and family dynamics
• Wise words from Jeff Bezos

Suggested links:

• Uncertain Pathfinders website
• Karnan's Linkedin
• PTSC's website
• LowCarbonPower
• Uncertain Pathfinders Instagram
• Uncertain Pathfinders Service and Collaboration Request

As always, we welcome any comments or questions. Please contact us if you would like to collaborate, or are seeking 1-1 coaching, or training for your team. UP offers career and life coaching, in addition to applied improv workshops, and workshops related to Nonviolent Communication.

🎙️ 歡迎收聽 Uncertain Pathfinders（UP）Podcast，
在這裡，我們邀請來賓、主持人，以及正在收聽的你，一起擁抱不確定性，解鎖新可能。

在本集節目中，Jeffrey 與特別來賓共同主持人 Olof，邀請到 北祥科技服務股份有限公司（Pershing Technology Services Corporation, PTSC）董事長兼執行長 陳欽祥（Sean Chen），以及 AI 技術經理 高卡納Karnan Gopalakrishnan 一同來到錄音室。
這次的對談，也是一場久違的重逢。在創立 Uncertain Pathfinders 之前，Jeffrey 曾於 PTSC 擔任 首席學習長（Chief Learning Officer, CLO） 五年，並與 Sean 與 Karnan 共事。這次再度相聚，也為對話增添了更多層次與情感深度。

在這場充滿張力與溫度的對談中，主持人與來賓一同探索「不確定性」的多重樣貌——特別是在 AI 發展 與 個人生命經驗 的交會點。他們談到在專業環境中如何拿捏結構與彈性、在人際關係中的情緒挑戰，以及為什麼擁抱不確定性，往往是通往成長與創新的入口。
透過個人故事與深刻反思，來賓們分享了不確定性如何帶來意想不到的機會，也如何促成與他人之間更深層的連結。

🎧 本集重點包括：

• AI 作為我們的過去、現在與未來的一部分
• 不確定性、溫度（temperature）與程式設計之間的關係
• 從單身生活轉換到與伴侶同住的歷程
• 在經營事業時，如何平衡結構、彈性與不確定性
• 出生之前的不確定狀態
• 離開家鄉、在異地建立新的「家」
• 與動物一起旅行的經驗
• 關於老化與家庭關係的思考
• 來自 Jeff Bezos 的智慧之語

🔗 相關連結：

• Uncertain Pathfinders 官方網站
• Karnan 的 LinkedIn
• PTSC 官方網站
• LowCarbonPower
• Uncertain Pathfinders Instagram
• Uncertain Pathfinders 服務與合作洽詢

一如往常，我們非常歡迎你的回饋、想法與提問。
如果你有合作想法，或正在尋找 一對一教練、團隊培訓，歡迎與我們聯繫。
Uncertain Pathfinders 提供 職涯與人生教練服務，以及 應用即興（Applied Improv） 與 非暴力溝通（NVC） 相關工作坊，期待與你一起在不確定中前行。

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