Unlearn with Asher & Kelly

Natan Edelsburg, Chief Partnerships Officer at Muck Rack, joins Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn on Unlearn to talk about what happens when a revenue leader outgrows the CRO seat. They unpack how modern PR is evolving, why media training matters more than ever, and how partnerships roles are becoming more dynamic and strategic than ever before. Natan shares his journey from early employee to CPO, the challenges of navigating internal change, and the power of authentic storytelling in a noisy world.

Chapters

01:03 – Natan’s Journey to Chief Partnerships Officer

10:00 – Why He Stepped Down as CRO

13:40 – Building a Role Around Partnerships & Evangelism

19:50 – Staying Focused on PR in a Distracted Market

30:32 – LinkedIn’s Role in Modern Comms

37:20 – What Makes a Strategic PR Campaign

40:35 – Why Media Training Is Essential

43:00 – Using AI for Smarter Media Prep

47:50 – Activating Relationships Through LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

1. Modern PR Requires Integration - Great campaigns span paid, earned, shared, and owned channels. PR isn’t just pitching anymore.

2. Media Training Isn’t Optional - Executives are expected to show up polished on every channel, not just in interviews.

3. Partnerships Can Be Evangelism - Natan’s role blends relationship-building with brand representation, showing CPOs aren’t confined to revenue KPIs.

4. AI Should Augment, Not Replace - Smart teams are using AI to speed up busywork—but keeping humans in the loop to protect quality.

5. LinkedIn Is an Underrated Power Tool - Relationship capital, activated thoughtfully, still opens more doors than cold outreach ever will.

Key Quotes

“You still want to do incubation stuff, but the company’s needs are highly specialized. That’s the trade-off every growth-stage exec faces.” - Asher Mathew

“While tech stacks change, relationships remain the most durable asset in go-to-market.” - Kelly Sarabyn

“Being media trained doesn’t mean being robotic. It means knowing your story and being able to tell it in a way that connects.” - Natan Edelsburg

Final Thoughts

Natan’s story is a reminder that career growth isn’t always up. It’s sometimes sideways, strategic, and self-aware. From building Muck Rack’s comms ecosystem to leading without a team, he’s showing what flexible leadership looks like. And with AI, PR, and social platforms evolving fast, the conversation doubles as a blueprint for staying relevant and trusted in any go-to-market function.

As VP of Partnerships at Factorial, Marcel Queralt turned a side project into a full-blown business unit, driving one-third of the company’s revenue. In this episode, Marcel breaks down how he built a 100-person global team, why partner leaders need to think like entrepreneurs, and the exact culture and org structure that keeps it all running.

Chapters

02:30 - Why partnerships became a growth lever

06:05 - Finding product-market fit before hiring

10:33 - Why Marcel hired “mini-founders” first

27:50 - Culture of ownership and reporting discipline

45:52 - The role of partner enablement at scale

50:48 - Presenting to the board and owning the number

Key Takeaways

1. Mini-Founders First: Marcel prioritized hiring entrepreneurial talent who could own a market and figure out what works before scaling.

2. Reporting is Strategy: Clean attribution and shared CRM visibility are non-negotiable if you want internal alignment and credibility.

4. Partner Enablement is Make or Break: Fast partner activation—within the first two weeks—is the key to long-term results.

5. Partnerships = Business Unit: Marcel runs his org with full P&L ownership, localized teams, and dedicated marketing and ops support.

6. Culture Eats Incentives: Internal collaboration is less about comp plans and more about shared trust and aligned goals.

Key Quotes

"My whole thing right now is, hey, can a partnership leader track performance all the way down to earnings per share... even if you can come down to like net income generated from partnerships, that would actually be a pretty cool thing." - Asher Mathew

"It sounded like when you initially took this on, you were looking quite broad at a lot of different types of organizations that could drive the business forward." - Kelly Sarabyn

"Signing a partnership doesn't mean anything... we want to understand if they want to invest or not on this relationship, if they are able to sign on a business plan or not, and if they have the ambition to be relevant for us. Because we want to be relevant for them." - Marcel Queralt

Final Thoughts

Partnerships don’t scale on charm alone. Rooted in ownership, discipline, and strategic hiring, Marcel’s approach shows what it takes to turn partner teams into revenue engines. Whether you’re in the early days or managing a global org, this episode is a blueprint for doing it right. It’s also a reminder that treating partnerships as a real business unit is necessary if you want to move the needle.

In this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Sergio Farache, Chief Strategy and Technology Officer at TD Synnex. Sergio shares insights on how TD Synnex is breaking away from the traditional linear model, creating a dynamic ecosystem that supports diverse partner types, from SMBs to global enterprises.

Chapters

02:28 - Sergio’s Background and Role at TD Synnex

04:11 - Evolving from Linear Models to Ecosystems

08:27 - The Omnichannel Approach

16:27 - Supporting SMBs with Tailored Programs

23:47 - Empowering Partners and Managing Data

33:37 - Distribution Models and Partner Retention

44:16 - Go-to-Market Trends and Future Focus

Key Takeaways

1. Ecosystem Integration: TD Synnex serves as the “ecosystem of ecosystems,” integrating major cloud platforms like AWS, Microsoft, and Google into a unified experience.

2. Omnichannel Strategy: Whether partners prefer a digital portal, API integration, or direct support, TD Synnex meets them where they are.

3. Focus on SMBs: Programs like Evolve help smaller partners scale their offerings without needing a large internal team.

4. Data-Driven Decisions: TD Synnex leverages its extensive data to help partners target the right customers and build effective go-to-market strategies.

5. Future of Distribution: Embracing digital engagement while maintaining human touchpoints remains crucial for building long-term relationships.

Key Quotes

“We are the ecosystem of ecosystems. Our role is to normalize interactions across platforms, allowing partners to access major cloud providers from one place.” - Sergio Farache

“If you build an amazing global SMB company, you’ll get any money you want from VCs.” - Asher Mathew

“The essence of why platforms exist is to add value by connecting partners and customers across the chain.” - Kelly Sarabyn

Final Thoughts

Sergio Farache highlights how TD Synnex is redefining distribution by fostering an interconnected ecosystem, focusing on SMB enablement, and leveraging data to deliver value. As the market evolves, TD Synnex’s approach to blending human interaction with digital efficiency will likely set the standard for the future of technology distribution.

Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Gilad Zubery, Chief Revenue Officer at DealHub. This episode unpacks Gilad's journey from EVP of Partnerships at ContentSquare to his current role, highlighting the strategic importance of partnerships in driving business growth. Discover insights into the challenges of revenue operations and the evolving landscape of partner-driven strategies.Chapters- 06:00 - Gilad's Career Journey and Transition to CRO- 12:00 - Attribution Challenges and Solutions in Partnerships- 18:00 - The Role of Partnerships in Company Growth Strategy- 24:00 - Community Building and Its Impact on Business- 30:00 - Challenges in Partner-Driven Growth for New Platforms- 36:00 - Reporting Structures for Partnership Teams- 42:00 - Metrics and Board Reporting for PartnershipsKey Takeaways1. Transitioning to CRO: Gilad's move to Deal Hub was driven by the company's belief in partner channels as a growth engine, underscoring the value of partnership expertise in executive roles.2. Attribution in Partnerships: Implementing a robust attribution system is crucial for understanding the impact of partnerships on lead generation and revenue.3. Outsourcing Challenges: Competing with established players like Salesforce requires innovative strategies, especially when offering fewer services.4. Reporting Structures: The optimal reporting line for partnerships varies by company strategy and culture, emphasizing the need for alignment with overall business goals.5. Early Metrics Implementation: Introducing partnership metrics early can significantly influence strategic decisions and highlight the importance of partner relationships.Key Quotes"Everything you do about partnerships, do it early on after you grow. It's close to impossible to really change. It's very difficult." - Gilad Zubery"Understanding the go-to-market motion of a company is crucial for determining where partnerships should report." - Asher Mathew"This is the beauty of having a partner friendly CRO is you can get data like that, even understanding who the partners are on the other, the competitive side." - Kelly SarabynFinal ThoughtsGilad's transition to CRO highlights the growing importance of partnerships in modern business strategies. His approach to eliminating attribution issues and fostering community engagement offers valuable lessons for leaders aiming to integrate partnerships into their growth models. As companies navigate competitive landscapes, the insights shared in this episode underscore the need for adaptability and strategic alignment in achieving sustainable success.

In this episode, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn engage with Serrah Linares, Senior Vice President of Growth Innovation at Optum, in a compelling discussion on the future of healthcare partnerships. This episode unpacks how technology, APIs, and strategic alliances are reshaping healthcare delivery and innovation.

Chapters

5:02 - Healthcare tech: EMRs, APIs, and data exchange

10:57 - Industry evolution: Adoption of technology in healthcare

17:50 - Partnerships and interoperability in healthcare

24:41 - AI and verticalized solutions in healthcare

30:36 - Organizational structure and partnerships at UnitedHealthcare

36:57 - Stakeholder alignment and making the business case

42:25 - Challenges of partnering in the healthcare industry

Key Takeaways

1. Optum's Technological Edge: Optum builds and commercializes technology to fill gaps in healthcare, enhancing member engagement and service delivery.

2. Interoperability and Innovation: The healthcare sector is gradually embracing digital transformation, driven by federal policies and the need for collaboration.

3. API Marketplace as a Catalyst: Optum's API marketplace supports startups, fostering innovation in telehealth and virtual care.

4. Data Protection vs. Sharing: Balancing data protection with the need for information sharing is crucial for improving healthcare outcomes.

5. Strategic Stakeholder Engagement: Effective partnership initiatives require a compelling business case and alignment with company goals.

Elena Leonova, Chief Product Officer at Spryker, joins Unlearn to discuss how product leaders should rethink their approach to partnerships. She explains why transparency in product roadmaps is critical, how developer ecosystems drive platform success, and why product managers need to integrate partners into their strategy. This episode is packed with insights on structuring partnerships for scale, and positioning partnerships at the executive level.

Chapters:

01:33 - The Role of Partnerships in Platform Products

04:26 - Structuring Partner Success & Developer Enablement

07:29 - Transparency in Product Roadmaps for Partners

12:58 - The Journey from Product to Platform

18:48 - How to Sell Partnerships to Product Leaders

22:05 - Why Product Managers Should Care About Partners

32:25 - The Role of Ecosystem Risk in Product Decisions

41:05 - CEO-Level Conversations About Partnerships

48:42 - Staying Aligned with Partners Over Time

50:08 - AI’s Impact on Product-Partner Strategies

Key Takeaways

Product leaders need to shift their mindset—Partnerships aren’t just a go-to-market strategy; they’re a core part of a scalable product strategy.

Transparency is key—Sharing product roadmaps with partners fosters trust and helps them build complementary solutions.

Developer experience matters—A strong developer ecosystem increases platform adoption and partner engagement.

Partnership decisions need a framework—Having a clear “build, buy, or partner” philosophy helps streamline product decisions.

Ecosystem risk is real—Companies must account for partner stability and evolving technology trends when integrating third-party solutions.

Key Quotes

"Product leaders often don’t realize that partnerships can extend product capabilities without adding internal complexity." - Elena Leonova

"If a product roadmap doesn’t make space for partners, it’s missing a massive opportunity for scale." - Asher Mathew

"Product managers care about adoption—partners can help increase product stickiness and usage." - Kelly Sarabyn

Final Thoughts

Partnerships are a growth strategy that requires alignment between product, business, and developers. Whether you’re a product manager, a partner leader, or an executive, this episode is a masterclass in structuring partnerships for long-term success.

#ProductLeadership #Partnerships #TechEcosystem #SaaS #PlatformStrategy

Join hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn as they engage with Alan Chhabra, a seasoned executive with a rich history at MongoDB, now leading partnerships at Cerebras. This episode unpacks Alan's journey from engineering to executive roles, offering insights into building robust partner organizations and strategies for collaborating with hyperscalers.

In this Unlearn episode, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Jason Graefe, a seasoned Microsoft executive. With over two decades at Microsoft, Jason shares his journey from a field seller to leading Microsoft's engagement with software development companies. This episode explores leadership lessons, the transformative impact of generative AI, and Microsoft's strategic approach to partnering with software companies.

In this episode of the Unlearn podcast, Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn chat with Anwar Haneef, Head of Ecosystem at Canva, about the company's innovative approach to empowering developers. Anwar explores Canva's ecosystem, showcasing tools like the Apps SDK and Connect API, which enable seamless integrations across platforms. He shares insights on Canva’s expansive reach, partnerships with industry giants like Meta and Salesforce, and how the $50 million Developer Innovation Fund supports sustainable ecosystem growth. Tune in for a look at how Canva is shaping the future of design, collaboration, and developer success.

Chapters - 

00:00 - Introduction

03:19 - Canva's Developer Ecosystem and Infrastructure

06:39 - Examples of Canva's Developer Integrations

12:56 - Diversity of Canva's Ecosystem and User Community

19:48 - Monetization Strategy for Canva's Developer Ecosystem

31:25 - Canva's Innovation Fund and Long-Term Sustainability

33:00 - Go-to-Market Strategies with Partners

39:14 - Team Structure and Organizational Design

54:12 - Final Thoughts and Future Plans

Final Thoughts and Future Plans

Anwar shared that Canva is focused on enhancing functionality and support for developers, including introducing new integrations and tools. He also mentioned a selective approach to onboarding new partners for the premium app program, prioritizing quality and user value. 

Key Takeaways - 

Key Quotes - 

"Before we start anything, we usually spend a lot of time designing it first. This creates a much better experience because it ensures everything is well-articulated and users are properly guided. When you focus on design upfront, you can build faster, as many of the issues that arise from building first and designing later are avoided." - Asher Mathew

"We want Canva to be wherever there is an intention for design. Whether it's creating a QBR, designing a t-shirt, or planning team swag, we aim to be available anytime, anywhere, for any user with design needs." - Anwar Haneef
"Many platforms say, 'We've made ourselves extensible—come build on us,' but Canva has gone beyond that. Not only has it made itself extensible, but it has also made it incredibly easy to embed Canva into other products. This allows users to access Canva seamlessly within those products, maintaining a consistent experience." - Kelly Sarabyn

On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn connect with Eron Sunando, Asana's Head of Channels & Alliances. Fresh from Asana's Partner Summit, Eron brings a unique perspective on how partnerships can simplify the increasingly complex world of business technology.

Drawing from his globe-trotting career that spans from UBS to Salesforce, Eron unpacks the challenges facing today's businesses – from overwhelmed SMB owners to sales teams juggling multiple tools. He shares an insider's look at Asana's fresh approach to partnerships, including their new partner program and the game-changing AI Studio. Join us for a practical conversation about reducing tech complexity, building meaningful partnerships, and finding the sweet spot between AI automation and the human touch in partner management.

Chapters - 

00:00 - Introduction and Eron’s career journey

04:20 - Complexity of modern tech stacks

10:00 - Reducing Complexities for SMBs

16:00 - Asana's Partner Summit and Program Relaunch

22:00 - Partnerships with MasterCard and Other Ecosystem Players

28:00 - Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Partner Programs

34:00 - Asana's Use of AI and the Launch of AI Studio

40:00 - Managing Partner Relationships with Asana's Internal Tools

45:00 - AI and Partner Management

50:00 - Asana's AI Studio and the Shift Towards Customizable AI Workflows

52:00 - Evolving Partner Program Structure

Key Takeaways - 

Key Quotes - 

"I was excited to talk with you because, traditionally, a partnership leader’s worst nightmare is working with a CRO. Few people have experienced both roles firsthand, but you’ve done exactly that." - Asher Mathew

"What's top of mind for me is that, as you know, AI is everywhere. But what I often hear from our customers is that their tech stack has become very complex." - Eron Sunando