Third Way Senior Fellow Frank Sharry has been at the center of nearly every major push for immigration reform for decades — and watched almost all of them fall apart.

Now he wants Democrats to reckon with where they went wrong on immigration, and how the party can reclaim the middle in the midterms and beyond.

Sarah McCammon spoke with Sharry about how Democrats lost credibility on the border, the “both-and” answer he thinks can win back swing voters, and how four decades working with refugees shaped his view of the issue.
 

IN THIS EPISODE: 
00:00 — Cold open 
1:33 – Both parties captured by the loudest factions

4:33 — Biden's border fix came too late

8:34 — Secure the border, reform enforcement at home

19:18 — The "both-and-" answer costs and the Atlantic op-ed that cost Sharry old friends 

30:57 — Order and generosity, "two sides of the same coin"

39:20 — Sharry's origin story

43:44 — The math behind Trump's demonization of immigrants

We have some exciting news to share: the podcast will soon have a new look and a new name. We’re officially becoming Unmoderated.
You’ll notice new colors, new fonts, and a fresh look but the content you know isn’t changing. 

Sarah McCammon will still be sitting down with leaders, advocates, and changemakers to unpack the personal stories that shaped them and the battles they’re taking on today.

We'll see you next week for the start of a new chapter. 
 

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Most kids hang posters of their favorite bands on their walls. Jake Auchincloss decorated his room with pictures of the Founding Fathers.

His grandfather, the son of Jewish refugees, snuck into a Marine recruiting station as a teenager during World War II, over his mother’s objections. Representative Auchincloss joined the Marines to carry on that legacy. He commanded infantry in Afghanistan, then came home and ran for office. Now he is pushing the Democratic Party toward the center—and back to winning. 

IN THIS EPISODE:

0:00 — Cold Open and Introduction

5:42 — Afghanistan and American power

10:23 — Redefining the center around the middle class

19:07 — Patriotic, productive populism

21:57 — Chatbots and developing brains

28:41 — Antisemitism in both parties

36:03 — The Israel aid vote and AIPAC

38:40 — A governing vision for the middle class

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Elissa Slotkin arrived in New York City as a student one day before 9/11—and before the smoke cleared, she knew what she wanted to do with her life. She went on to serve in the CIA, did three tours in Iraq, and worked in the White House under two presidents: one Republican and one Democrat.

Michigan voters elected Senator Slotkin to the US Senate in 2024—the same night Donald Trump carried the state. She won in part by winning in places Kamala Harris couldn’t. And her tenure in the Senate has been defined by a willingness to take on powerful interests and stick up for what she believes in. After Senator Slotkin and other intelligence and military veterans made a public statement reminding American troops that they can refuse illegal orders, President Trump accused her of sedition. Lately she's also been taking on what she sees as the failures of her own party.

Sarah McCammon spoke with Senator Slotkin in Washington, DC, about how her mother's illness and the AIDS crisis shaped her politics, what she means when she says Democrats need more alpha energy, and why she wants a crowded 2028 primary.

#ElissaSlotkin #MidwestPolitics #DemocraticParty

IN THIS EPISODE:

0:00 — Cold Open and Introduction

1:39 — Why Slotkin keeps showing up in the Midwest

6:04 — How her mother shaped her politics

13:44 — From 9/11 and the CIA to elected office

16:02 — The illegal-orders video and the threats that followed

21:09 — “Alpha energy” and the “happy warrior” trap

24:15 — Calling “balls and strikes” on Israel and Lebanon

28:34 — Why she wants to keep Chinese-made  cars out of the United States

31:05 — The Democratic Party’s search for something new

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Brooke Jenkins was a homicide prosecutor in San Francisco when she walked out the door and helped lead a campaign to fire her own boss. That boss was one of the most famous progressive prosecutors in America. He had promised fewer prosecutions and a new model of justice.

But as drug markets spread and theft videos went viral, voters in one of America’s most liberal cities decided the experiment had gone too far. After they recalled him in 2022, Jenkins was appointed to replace him.

Since then, San Francisco has become a test of a question Democrats face everywhere: Can the party get serious about crime and disorder without giving up on reform?

Sarah McCammon spoke with District Attorney Jenkins about how she found her calling prosecuting violent crime, how she balances holding dangerous offenders accountable and partnering with at-risk communities, and what San Francisco can teach national Democrats. 

IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 — Cold open

1:14 — Jenkins breaks with her boss

2:31 — Rejecting the pendulum swing on crime

7:03 — Enforcing every law

22:48 — The loss that led Jenkins to prosecution

28:38 — Democrats and the public safety argument

31:19 — Deadly force and the limits of federal power

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Tom Suozzi grew up in a family where public service was the family business. His father immigrated from Italy, and flew bombing missions over Europe during World War II, before becoming a mayor. Suozzi went on to follow his father into politics.

Today, he's the only Democrat in New York who holds a congressional district that Trump won. He’s on a campaign to push his party to declare itself capitalist not socialist and proud rather than ashamed of America. 

Sarah McCammon spoke with Representative Suozzi about immigration, the future of the democratic party, and how Jonah Hill inspired an odyssey of the soul before his return to Congress. 

IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 – Public Service Runs in the Family

02:43 – Losing Big, Starting Over

10:26 – The Future of the Democratic Party

17:11 – Immigration, Polarization & Why Congress Stalls

30:10 – Antisemitism, Division & America's Political Climate

33:01 – Can Washington Learn to Govern Again?

40:34 – Looking Ahead to 2028

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Ken Salazar comes from a part of Colorado with a complicated history that has shaped the way he understands immigration and identity. Salazar has represented his home state in the U.S. Senate, served as President Obama’s Interior Secretary, and more recently, he was President Biden's ambassador to Mexico—at a time when Biden’s border policy was under scrutiny. 

Now, Salazar is sharing his ideas about what went wrong and where Democrats should go from here. His new book ‘Borderlands’ is out now wherever books are sold. 

Sarah McCammon spoke with Secretary Salazar about the politics of border security, the future of U.S.-Mexico relations, and Salazar's proposal for a new North American alliance.

IN THIS EPISODE

00:00 — Cold open 

1:05 — Ken Salazar's family history in the American Southwest

6:17 — Immigration reform under Presidents Bush and Obama

9:38 — Why bipartisan immigration reform repeatedly failed

15:53 — Lessons from the Biden administration's border policy

21:45 — Border security, asylum reform, and mass deportations

24:11 — The future of the Democratic Party

25:45 — U.S.-Mexico relations and North American cooperation

26:34 — Themes from Salazar's new book, Borderlands

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Justin Bibb grew up in a house where public safety was personal. His father was a police officer and firefighter, his grandmother led the neighborhood watch, and those experiences shaped how he thinks about government, safety, and civic responsibility.

Even after leaving Cleveland, Bibb never stopped thinking about how to make his hometown stronger. He eventually returned to run for mayor, becoming one of the youngest leaders of a major American city. Today, he's focused on policing, the housing affordability crisis, and the long work of revitalizing a Rust Belt city that has spent decades reinventing itself.

Sarah McCammon talks with Bibb about what it takes to govern through difficult tradeoffs, why he believes cities are leading the country on problem-solving, and what national Democrats can learn from local leaders delivering results.

01:14 — Growing Up in the Shadow of Decline 

06:13 — Why He Came Home 

09:22 — Winning City Hall at 34 

15:23 — Rebuilding Cleveland's Neighborhoods

21:19 — Why Mayors Get Things Done 

25:12 — Leading After Tamir Rice 

30:30 — Hope for the Next Generation 

31:48 — Politics Without the Performance

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Most people know Mark Cuban as a Shark Tank investor or longtime owner of the Dallas Mavericks. But a few years ago, he started Cost Plus Drugs to cut out the middleman in a pharmaceutical industry he says is fundamentally broken.

Cuban wants healthcare for everyone—even if he doesn't think Medicare for All is the answer. He argues that transparency is the missing ingredient, and lays out what he thinks it would actually take to build a universal healthcare system that works.

Sarah McCammon speaks with Cuban about healthcare reform, AI, wealth inequality, the future of the Democratic Party, and why he believes politicians need to spend less time talking and more time solving people's everyday problems.

IN THIS EPISODE

00:00 — Cold open

1:14 — Why Cost Plus Drugs exists

4:54 — The transparency problem

9:13 — Universal healthcare vs. Medicare for All

16:10 — Billionaires and inequality

23:29 — Democrats, DSA, and social media

28:52 — AI and the future of work

38:08 — Advice for the next Democratic nominee

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Jackie Payne on the Moderate Women Who Decide Elections

After Donald Trump won in 2016, Jackie Payne did something unusual. She got in a car and spent two years just listening to women. What she found was a huge number of moderate women — in the suburbs and small towns — that both parties keep underestimating, and keep getting wrong. Closing that gap with America’s largest single voting bloc would meaningfully expand the coalition for progress and put extremists on the ropes.

Payne is the founder and executive director of Galvanize Action, a group focused on moderate women. That makes her uniquely plugged into what these women want, and full of ideas on how to persuade them.

Sarah McCammon spoke with Payne in Seattle.

IN THIS EPISODE:

00:00 — Cold open

01:02 — The shock of 2016

03:39 — Conflict, self-doubt, and standing alone

05:40 — Why white women: math and morality

10:48 — Who these women are

12:37 — The 2024 shift nobody noticed

18:09 — Broken arms and sick days

21:41 — The affordability-and-corruption recipe

24:14 — What's actually in their feeds

29:31 — Can a woman win in 2028?

45:02 — Make her feel seen

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Democrats have a branding problem. Joe Walsh and Yemisi Egbewole think they know why.

They took very different roads into the Democratic Party. Walsh was a Tea Party congressman who campaigned for Donald Trump in 2016. Egbewole ran communications in Joe Biden's White House — and now she's a political commentator on Fox News.

They both have ideas about why the Democratic Party feels so out of touch to many red-state voters, and thoughts on how to win them back. Sarah McCammon spoke with them live on stage in Charleston, South Carolina earlier this year.

IN THIS EPISODE:

00:26 — Two roads into the party

02:19 — What turns gettable voters off

04:54 — Crime down 35% means nothing

07:23 — The online left monster

10:10 — Authenticity vs. fighting

11:18 — Why there's no going back to Obama

14:14 — Independent media is where voters are

16:42 — Going into enemy territory

17:58 — Win purple, own purple

19:03 — The national brand problem

23:27 — Ultimate advice for democratswhats 

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