Unruly Subjects

What does it take to move from being right about the world to actually having the power to change it?

What happens within our movements and organizations and in our hearts when we stop believing that we can actually win?

Organizer, facilitator, and writer Yotam Marom joins Chenjerai to talk about what our movements can sometimes get wrong about power, leadership, conflict, strategy, and winning. They also discuss what it might take to build movements big and strong enough to meet this moment. Yotam’s new book is called For Louder Days: Reaching Beyond a Politics of Powerlessness.

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If you know someone who would appreciate this conversation, send it to them. Seriously, text them right now. Forward it in an email. Drop it in the group chat.

Help us grow the Unruly community and organize so that we can move from just being right to actually building power.

🚨 HELP US BUILD FULLY INDEPENDENT MEDIA!
Unruly Subjects is growing. As I write this we now have 119 members in our Patreon community, including 45 people who have stepped up to support the show financially. To every one of you: THANK YOU!

🎯 OUR GOAL: 100 paid subscribers by December 1st. We’re almost halfway there. We need 55 more listeners to step up and help us build something sustainable.

We’re doing this work from the muscle, and if we want to keep making the show, expand our coverage, and bring you more conversations like this one, we need more of our listeners to pitch in.

🙏 If you value worker-owned, independent journalism, join our Patreon community for as little as $5/month. Help us build listener-backed media at unrulysubjectspodcast.com.

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and Bluesky @chenjerai.bsky.social and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod. Get in touch at [email protected].

Unruly Subjects is also on YouTube!
Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Production Help From Aowen Cao

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode:

Yotam Marom, Four Louder Days: Reaching Beyond a Politics of Powerlessness

From Bernie to Mamdani, how the Occupy movement transformed American politics. Yotam Marom, who helped lead Occupy Wall Street, discusses why power must be built through movements, not simply through elected officials

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/21/yotam-moram-occupy-movement

Why bravery and heartbreak are essential to organizing. Reflecting on decades of organizing — from Occupy to Mamdani’s campaign — Yotam Marom’s book “For Louder Days” offers a powerful guide to making hard choices.

https://wagingnonviolence.org/2026/08/yotam-marom-for-louder-days-book-review/

“Undoing the Politics of Powerlessness” - Yotam Marom

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Unruly Subjects is back in the building and back in your feed! After a long, hot summer hiatus we’re returning with a very special episode recorded live at the Socialism Conference in Chicago, featuring a conversation with the legendary scholars and thinkers Ruth Wilson Gilmore and Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò. 

Chenjerai, Femi, and Ruth dig into these big questions: How do we reckon with this moment? And where do we go from here? (A huge thank you to our comrades at Haymarket Books for organizing the conference and for their ongoing support of independent media.)

🚨 HELP US BUILD FULLY INDEPENDENT MEDIA!
To bring you this episode, the Unruly team traveled from Philly and NYC to Chicago to record live on the ground. That kind of independent coverage takes real resources and it costs money. 

Unruly Subjects episodes have been downloaded tens of thousands of times. And for that, we say THANK YOU! But right now, only 39 people are stepping up to help support the show financially. We’re doing this work from the muscle, and to keep going, expand our coverage, and talk to more folks, we need your support.

🎯 OUR GOAL: We need 61 more listeners to step up by December 1st to hit our target of 100 paid subscribers.

🙏 If you value worker-owned, independent journalism, join our Patreon community for as little as $5/month. Help us build listener-backed media at unrulysubjectspodcast.com.

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and Bluesky @chenjerai.bsky.social and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod. Get in touch at [email protected].

Unruly Subjects is also now on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Production Help From Aowen Cao

Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions and Grizzly Beatz

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode:

By Ruth Wilson Gilmore:

• Chenjerai interviews abolitionist Ruth Wilson Gilmore on the Intercepted Podcast
• Golden Gulag: Prisons, Surplus, Crisis, and Opposition in Globalizing California
• Abolition Geography: Essays Towards Liberation

By Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò:

• Elite Capture: How the Powerful Took Over Identity Politics (And What We Can Do About It)
• Reconsidering Reparations

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Before we relaunch our new season later this month, we wanted to share a special update! 

We just dropped an interview with journalist and media producer Natalie Bencivenga for our Patreon community. [ LISTEN HERE ]

Natalie is also joining us at the Socialism Conference this weekend, where Chenjerai will be taking the stage across four live events alongside a lineup that includes Ruth Wilson Gilmore, Hasan Piker, Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò, Demetrius Noble, Cat Salonek Schladt, Alex Hanna, Sarah Jaffe, and Yotam Marom.

Plus, we're staging our marquee live event: UNRULY SUBJECTS Live: A Reckoning with Our Moment!

Chenjerai will be sharing behind-the-scenes updates from the conference all weekend long, and if you get a chance to say hello in person, he might just give you a sneak peek at our brand-new Unruly merch... so don't miss out!

👉 Click here for Chenjerai's full Socialism Conference session schedule, panel topics, location details, and the Natalie Bencivenga interview.

If you value independent, worker-owned media, please step up and support our Patreon community for as little as $5/month!

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This week, Chenjerai interviews reporter Daniel Boguslaw about his recent WIRED article, US Law Enforcement Warns of ‘Anti-Tech Extremism’ as AI Hatred Grows. They discuss how tech corporations, law enforcement at the federal level, and even local institutions are collaborating to frame people in the fast growing resistance to AI and data centers as terrorists and threats to domestic security. Bogsulaw lays out what’s happening in detail and also tells us how people are fighting against these labels. 

🙏 We make Unruly Subjects 100% independently! Support the show on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/UnrulySubjects 

📝 Got a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself?  Take the Unruly Subjects Audience Survey.

☀️Unruly Subjects is going into summer mode☀️ This just means fewer and shorter episodes over the next couple months, while we plan for SEASON TWO in the fall. 

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and Bluesky @chenjerai.bsky.social and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod. Get in touch [email protected].

Unruly Subjects is also now on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Additional Music in this episode is from Blue Dot Sessions

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode

US Law Enforcement Warns of ‘Anti-Tech Extremism’ as AI Hatred Grows

https://www.wired.com/story/us-law-enforcement-warns-of-anti-tech-extremism/

https://danboguslaw.substack.com/

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This week, Chenjerai reports from ground zero outside Delaney Hall, the detention facility in Newark, NJ where hundreds of ICE detainees have been on hunger strike due to the horrible, egregious conditions. You’ll hear an interview that Chenjerai recorded with Sally Pillay, an immigration activist with the Eyes on Ice Coalition who volunteers outside the detention center, helping to support the families visiting the facility.  

🙏 We make Unruly Subjects 100% independently! Support the show on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/UnrulySubjects 

📝 Got a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself?  Take the Unruly Subjects Audience Survey.

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and Bluesky @chenjerai.bsky.social and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod. Get in touch [email protected].

Unruly Subjects is also now on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Additional Music in this episode is from Blue Dot Sessions

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode

Support our families Linktree

Letters from Detainees 

https://www.lahuelga.com/freedom

About Eyes on ICE NJ Coalition 

https://www.facebook.com/PaxNJ/posts/eyes-on-ice-is-a-broad-based-coalition-of-dozens-of-orgs-with-a-broad-network-of/948292381077652/

Mami Chelo Foundation  

https://mamichelo.org/what-we-do/

Support the show

🙏 We make Unruly Subjects 100% independently! Support the show on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/UnrulySubjects 

This week, Unruly Subjects is diving back into one of our most popular and urgent topics: the explosive growth of corporate data centers and the community-led movements rising up to stop them. We are joined by Astra Taylor (writer, filmmaker, and co-founder of the Debt Collective) and Saul Levin (environmental policy advocate and host of the new podcast The Hum).

Drawing from their co-authored article in The Guardian, they break down why the battle over AI infrastructure isn’t just an environmental issue—it’s a fundamental battle for democracy, human labor, and the future of our communities.

But first, host Chenjerai tells the story of what he saw on the frontlines while visiting Delaney Hall, an ICE detention center in Newark, NJ, where detainees have launched a hunger strike. Hear Chenjerai read a letter written by one of the men detained at Delaney Hall.

Plus, stick around until the end to hear a performance from 11-year-old hip hop phenom RoqueStarz, son of RodrigoStarz of Rebel Diaz.

📝 Got a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself?  Take the Unruly Subjects Audience Survey.

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and Bluesky @chenjerai.bsky.social and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod. Get in touch [email protected].

Unruly Subjects is also now on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Additional Music in this episode is from Blue Dot Sessions

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode

Saul Levin’s Podcast: The Hum

Erin Brockovich Launches Data Center Map

Take Back The Land (People’s Remix) by Rebel Diaz

Astra Taylor and Saul Levin’s Article from The Guardian

Hear Chenjerai Read "Our Cry: A Letter From Inside Delaney Hall"

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This week’s show is about informed consent, pregnancy, drug testing, hospitals, and the family policing system. Specifically, we break down a form of surveillance called “test-and-report” that's being used to punish parents and newborns in medical settings. And we hear from a coalition that's been organizing against it.

📝 Got a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself?  Take the Unruly Subjects Audience Survey.

🙏 We make Unruly Subjects 100% independently! Support the show on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/UnrulySubjects 

Chenjerai interviews Dr. Erinma Ukoha and Desseray Wright about their work with the Informed Consent Coalition and their fight against the family policing policy of "test-and-report".

Desseray Wright is a Parent and Policy advocate at the Bronx Defenders, where she works to challenge and transform the family regulation system. Dr. Ukoha is a board-certified obstetrician, gynecologist, and maternal fetal medicine specialist at the Mount Sinai Hospital. This interview was recorded just before Mother’s Day. 

We also give you a sneak preview of the new season of Scene on Radio, which premieres on May 27th. 

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and Bluesky @chenjerai.bsky.social and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod. Get in touch [email protected].

Unruly Subjects is also now on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions and Grizzly Beatz

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode

Informed Consent New York

https://www.informedconsentny.com/

Bronx Defenders 

https://www.instagram.com/bronxdefenders/

Movement for Family Power 

 https://www.movementforfamilypower.org/

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This week, we hear the story of how the "punishment bureaucracy" uses narrative and media to maintain state violence. We’re looking at the devastating impact of jailing someone simply because they cannot afford to pay bail. We dive into how punishment systems defend themselves and the stories that police, prosecutors, politicians, and media institutions tell in order to make cages sound like safety.

🙏 We make Unruly Subjects 100% independently! Support the show on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/UnrulySubjects.

First, Chenjerai talks with Alec Karakatsanis, founder of Civil Rights Corps and author of the book Copaganda: How Police and Media Manipulate Our News. Alec tells the story of the fight against wealth-based detention—from the devastating reality of the cash bail system to the ways "copaganda" is used to attack reform victories and justify the jailing of people because they are poor.

Later, Chenjerai is out for a ride in New York City when his bike breaks down, leading to an encounter that sticks with him. He meets a bike mechanic who is clearly living without much of a safety net, but who carries an incredible archive of skill, a set of tools and a deep willingness to help others. It’s a reflection on the genius that lives all around us, and the uncomfortable reality of the city’s inequality.

📝 Got a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself?
 Take the Unruly Subjects Audience Survey.

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and Bluesky @chenjerai.bsky.social and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod. Get in touch at [email protected].

Unruly Subjects is also now on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions and Grizzly Beatz

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode

• Alec Karakatsanis’s book: Copaganda: How Police and Media Manipulate Our News
• Civil Rights Corps: Learn more about their litigation and advocacy work
• The Puerto Rico Report: The Transformation of the Puerto Rico Police Bureau
• The Body Camera: The Language of our Dreams by Alec Karakatsanis
• The California Supreme Court Ruling: The Marshall Project
• Debt Collective: Carceral Debt

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Before he was a scholar, journalist, and podcast host, Chenjerai was a rapper. And this week’s show is all about how hip-hop is connected to our larger political struggles. 

📝 Got a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself?  Take the Unruly Subjects Audience Survey.

🙏 We make Unruly Subjects 100% independently! Support the show on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/UnrulySubjects 

First, Chenjerai interviews his friend, the scholar, rapper, and UVA professor A.D. Carson. He's the author of Being Dope: Hip Hop and Theory through Mixtape Memoir. In their conversation, they talk about what it means to take rap seriously on its own terms and why it's worthy of scholarly analysis, and how A.D’s work applies to the Afroman case. 

Second, Chenjerai talks with RodStarz, ½ of  the political rap duo Rebel Diaz. They discuss the group's history, their political education, the Rebel Diaz Arts Collective, and how they understood hip hop not just as music, but as actual infrastructure. 

Also, P-Dawg calls in, News Fiend, & more… 

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and Bluesky @chenjerai.bsky.social and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod. Get in touch [email protected].

Unruly Subjects is also now on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions and Grizzly Beatz

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode

Buy A.D’s book:  Being Dope: Hip Hop and Theory through Mixtape Memoir https://academic.oup.com/book/61518?login=false

A.D. Carson’s hot off the presses article on the use of James Broadnax lyris to sentence him to death. https://theconversation.com/after-the-execution-of-james-g-broadnax-in-texas-questions-persist-over-use-of-rap-lyrics-as-evidence-280901

Some of A.D. Carson’s other writing 

https://aydeethegreat.com/printed-words/

Rebel Diaz “Chicago Teacher”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yN7cRZP58k

Rebel Diaz on a legacy of activism through music

http://bronxink.org/2011/10/12/17578-rebel-diaz-passing-on-a-legacy-of-activism-through-music/

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**Got a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself?**
Take the Unruly Subjects Audience Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd2yAl6HSeeImYB94zgMHftklj_hVArDjRY4Q3fJQ57UgA_hA/viewform

Here at Unruly Subjects you know we’re celebrating May Day ✊🏻✊🏽✊🏾✊🏿

So this week, we’re featuring two interviews that help us think through this critical question: What does it take to build the kind of power that can actually meet this political moment?

🙏 We make Unruly Subjects 100% independently! Support the show on Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/UnrulySubjects 

In This Episode:
First, Chenjerai interviews three major labor leaders: Todd Wolfson, president of the American Association of University Professors (AAUP) and a national vice president of American Federation of Teachers (AFT); Jessica Tang, president of AFT Massachusetts and former president of the Boston Teachers Union; and Carl Rosen, who recently retired as general president of the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America (UE). Todd, Jessica, and Carl talk about May Day as more than symbolism. They talk about it as part of building the infrastructure we may need later: labor, civil society, public institutions, community organizations, immigrant rights groups, education workers, and ordinary people finding ways to move together before a crisis hits.

Second, Our Unruly homie - the scholar and poet Demetrius Noble - talks with Carla Harris, a public school teacher and organizer in Guilford County, North Carolina. They discuss the everyday realities of working in public education and also about organizing in practical terms: how you talk to a coworker who is tired, scared, skeptical, or has never been asked to act before.

Follow Chenjerai on Instagram @chenjerai and follow Unruly Subjects @unrulysubjectspod.

Unruly Subjects is also now on YouTube! Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/@UnrulySubjects

Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions and Grizzly Beatz

Unruly Subjects is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions

Further reading & sources from this episode:

AAUP/AFT Platform: A Blueprint for Strengthening and Transforming Higher Education
https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/2026/Higher_Ed_Vision_and_Policy_Platform_326.pdf

May Day Strong
https://maydaystrong.org/

Kids Over Corporations
https://kidsovercorporations.org/index.html

https://www.ednc.org/4-23-2026-state-house-dems-call-for-budget-with-raises-for-educators-and-other-updates-from-the-start-of-short-session/#:~:text=Ben%20Humphries/EdNC-,Senator%20to%20file%20a%20

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools Cancelling Classes
https://www.instagram.com/p/DXhiOqzEWQ9/?igsh=ZDJ4MWR5YWo5OGx2

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