In this episode, Graham Pringle and I dissect a new Australian news segment promoting a military-style bootcamp for so-called tech-addicted teens. Drawing on our outdoor therapy work, we critique the program’s coercive tactics, lack of evidence, and outdated values like forced resilience and teamwork. We provide another an alternative based on trauma-informed, choice-driven approaches. From historical pitfalls of bootcamp approaches to the dangers of adult-imposed “fixes” for youth issues, we examine why these methods often backfire and advocate for engaging, voluntary outdoor experiences instead.

You saw my Substack about pinball? My follow-up about the kaleidoscope? That was inspired when I learned about Dr. Chris Ferguson’s work. I was hooked. I’m stoked he came to chat with me.

Chris is a psychologist, researcher, and author known for challenging cultural panics about media and youth. We touch on why every generation seems convinced the next one is doomed. From the “pinball bans” of the 1940s to today’s debates about social media and mental health, Chris has shown me a long history of adults blaming new technologies for society’s ills.

The conversation dives into what actually drives these moral panics: fear, nostalgia, and the mistaken belief that correlation equals causation. That’s the original sin for a researcher to commit, but it doesn’t change the fact that most legislation and bans relating to social media and kids these days are committing this. Chris explains how weak or misinterpreted data often fuels sweeping claims about video games, smartphones, and youth behavior. Good science actually tends to tell a calmer story. We explore how media narratives amplify anxiety, how policymakers respond to public pressure, and what happens when we mistake moral outrage for meaningful solutions.

Chris offers a hopeful, evidence-based reminder that young people are far more resilient than we’re led to believe, and that moral panics reveal more about adults than adolescent fragility. The episode closes with a thoughtful look at how parents, educators, and policymakers can keep perspective, foster agency, and focus on what actually helps kids thrive.

If you’re a parent, practitioner, or simply curious about why “kids these days” keep getting blamed for cultural shifts, this episode offers both insight and relief. It’s a funny, myth-busting conversation about media, morality, and the timeless cycle of panic that says more about us than about them.

You can click here for an audit trail of evidence and additional information about this discussion. In an unscripted and unedited conversation, I spoke with my friend and colleague Dr. Graham Pringle to explore the ethical challenges and systemic issues within outdoor therapies (specifically related to our professional community in wilderness and adventure therapy), particularly concerning our experience as researchers trying to publish research about youth experience, clinical excellence in outdoor therapy, and America’s troubled teen industry.

RSVP for the Kids These Days Launch Team for access to the second part of this interview. Graham describes the rejection of his accepted abstract from a recent adventure therapy conference. The workshop abstract (focused on human rights and experiences of harm) was initially accepted but later declined after revisions were requested repeatedly due to its supposed controversial content, which was not hurting kids in the name of therapy. While the ultimate dismissal of his workshop is alarming, this is sadly not so surprising in our experience of trying to lift the veil on traumatic and harmful practices. I describe some of my experiences further (calls for retractions, plagiarism, and more in Part 2)

Graham argues that human rights should be the minimum standard for all therapeutic work, including adventure and wilderness therapy. We discuss the tragic event in the US, where a young person suffocated in a sealed bivy bag during a wilderness therapy program, highlighting the dire consequences of inadequate standards and how, when living in evidence-based times, research can enable these practices to continue. Graham critiques the lack of consensus on human rights and minimum standards of care, noting that peer-reviewed literature often endorses practices he considers human rights violations, such as denying adequate shelter or food, which have persisted since his training in the late 1990s.

This discrepancy has real-world implications, such as funding cuts for outdoor therapy in Australia due to its association with coercive wilderness therapy practices, highlighting a global credibility crisis in bringing therapy to the great outdoors.

Graham’s journey into this issue began as a foster carer, leading him to question why certain activities failed for youth with complex trauma. His PhD research faced significant resistance, with an 18-month review process marked by a 42-page critique, suggesting pushback and intentional delays against his challenge to the dominant narrative. Similarly, an open letter they co-authored, advocating for accountability and ethical standards, faced attempts to edit it after it was signed, reflecting the tensions in the outdoor therapy academic universe.

This conversation is both a critique and a call to action. As researchers, we must embrace discomfort, listen to those who have been harmed, and adopt ethical, rights-based practices. Confronting these issues, we envision a community of therapeutic workers (the change artists) that deviate to support youth development, moving beyond a legacy of harm to one of healing and empowerment.

Nevin Harper and I started thinking about writing Kids These Days years ago, but the project didn’t really kick off until Nevin began sitting down with experts and asking about youth mental health. We found that what made headlines didn’t always match the perspectives of the experts. We found new ways of thinking about youth, mental health, and well-being.

Throughout my work, meeting new people…including the youth I’ve worked with…is the best part of my day. It’s always an adventure, and I learn more when talking to others about their passion. That was the motivation for Unscripted.

In the epilogue of Kids These Days, we wrote about positive deviance—a process about finding and learning from the “outliers,” the deviants who do better than their peers, using uncommon strategies that others can replicate. That brings me to Ben and Carrie.

The Very Bad Therapy Reprise

In the first episode of Unscripted, I talked with Ben Fineman and Carrie Wiita, the creators of the Very Bad Therapy podcast. I wanted to ask how they reflect on the experience now two years removed from their 147 episodes. They started their podcast with a simple question: What happens when therapy goes wrong?

While studying to become therapists, they noticed a glaring absence in their education. No one was teaching them what not to do. In a field where methodologies can be contradictory and dogmatic, the lack of transparency about mistakes seemed troubling. Their curiosity sparked conversations with therapy veterans and practitioners alike, revealing just how much harm can happen in the name of help.

They unpacked assumptions that often go unquestioned in mental health education and training. This episode isn’t just a postmortem on the Very Bad Therapy podcast; it’s an invitation for reflection in a profession that often resists critique. We discussed the power dynamics inherent in therapy, the cultural forces shaping therapists' beliefs, and the potential consequences of not examining the dark side of what we’re passionate about.

Talking openly about therapy gone wrong can lead to more ethical, effective, and humble practice. We discussed a vision of mental health care that’s more accountable, more relational, and more willing to admit when it doesn’t have all the answers.

Whether you’re a clinician, client, student, or someone curious about the inner workings of therapy, this candid, unedited, and reflective conversation is a perfect introduction to Unscripted: staying open to wherever the answers might lead.

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The Very Bad Therapy Podcast

Learn More about Carrie’s Work