In this episode of the ISBA Bursar Conversations, host Nigel Ward in conversation with Charlie Carver, Bursar at Bishopsgate School, talks about the often overlooked but crucial role of bursars in independent schools. The conversation explores the evolving responsibilities, challenges, and strategic thinking required in bursarial leadership particularly in the face of financial pressures, shifting school structures, and post-pandemic dynamics.

Charlie brings a rich and varied background to the role. With 23 years of service in the British Army, including operational tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and high-level staff positions, Charlie transitioned into education with a deep commitment to organizational efficiency and purpose. His military experience deeply informs his pragmatic, leadership-driven approach to school management.

Expect to Learn

- The surprising similarities between military command and school leadership

- Why the transition from military to bursarial work is both natural and complex

- How prep schools are adapting to demographic shifts, VAT changes, and parent expectations

- The challenges of flexible working in educational settings

- Strategic insights into outsourcing, school group formations, and future sustainability

Episode Breakdown with Timestamps

[00:00:00] – Teaser

[00:00:58] – Introduction & Charlie’s Education & Military Background

[00:09:19] – Transitioning to Civilian Life & Becoming a Bursar

[00:14:05] – Challenges of Career Progression in the Education Sector

[00:31:37] – Future of the Independent Sector

[00:41:50] – Enrollment Pressures & Year Group Strategy

[00:49:16] – Governance & Independence

[00:55:31] – Closing Thoughts

Connect With Charlie Carver on:

Linkedin: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/Charlie-carver-a971b822

Follow Bishopsgate School on:

Linkedin: https://uk.linkedin.com/school/bishopsgateschool/

Website: https://www.bishopsgateschool.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bishopsgateschool/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bishopsgateschool/

Connect with Nigel Ward on:

LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/nigel-ward-author-of-using-less-stuff-88684a25

Follow Using Less Stuff Podcast on Social media:

👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCostReductionCompany

👉 Twitter: https://x.com/The_CRC

👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-cost-reduction-company/

👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thecostreductioncompany8128

🙌 Enjoyed this episode?

Share it with someone exploring leadership in education or considering a career pivot into schools from the military or corporate world.

📢 Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not substitute for professional advice.

In this episode of the ISBA Bursar Conversations, host Nigel Ward welcomes Peter Sircar, Director of Finance & Resources at Hammersmith Academy to unpack lessons learned from decades in international school business management covering growth, strategy, and the future of multi academy trusts. Peter Sircar shares his journey from law to becoming a leader in school business management. He reflects on his experiences across various educational institutions, including overseeing the growth of a large school network and modernizing systems at a prestigious grammar school.

Peter highlights his strategic approach to leadership, emphasizing the importance of long-term planning, technology integration, and a people-first mindset. He discusses how his background in law, finance, and IT shaped his role and offers advice for those entering the field of educational business management, stressing resilience, passion, and the need for strategic thinking.

Key Takeaways:

- From Law to Education

Peter shares his early career ambitions to be a human rights lawyer, but a change in circumstances led him to focus on education and school business management.

- Lessons from the Largest School Network

His work at a large school network, where he helped grow the organization from a few to 100 schools, taught him valuable lessons about school management, HR, payroll, and project management.

- Building and Automating Systems

Peter combined his legal and finance background to automate processes in education, streamlining operations and introducing new technology.

- Leadership in Crisis and Growth

Reflecting on his career, Peter highlights his approach to leadership, including managing rapid growth, navigating the death of his father, and balancing work and personal life.

- People-Centric Leadership

Peter shares a powerful story about improving staff morale and ownership by acknowledging and respecting cleaning staff, showing the importance of appreciation in leadership.

- The Role of Strategic Planning

Peter discusses how strategic thinking in education management is key. From facilities management to staff development, he stresses the importance of planning for both short- and long-term goals.

Key Timestamps:

[00:00:00] - Teaser

[00:00:58] - Introduction and Peter’s educational background

[00:02:11] - Experience at a large school network: growth and challenges

[00:06:59] - Balancing personal and professional life

[00:09:53] - Leadership lessons and project management in education

[00:17:19] - The tension between institutional legacy and business realities

[00:23:06] - Peter’s passion for education and the drive to become a bursar

[00:25:56] - Advice for transitioning into educational business management

[00:27:58] - The importance of outsourcing and streamlining operations

[00:34:13] - Managing maintenance, grounds, and in-house teams

[00:39:24] - Commercializing school assets and developing new income streams

[00:44:42] - Innovations under financial pressure and sustainability models

[00:50:55] - The future of school business managers and strategic leadership

[00:54:02] - Conclusion

Connect Our Guest on:

Linkedin: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/petersircar

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/peter.sircar/

Connect with Nigel Ward on:

LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/nigel-ward-author-of-using-less-stuff-88684a25

Follow Using Less Stuff Podcast on Social media:

👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCostReductionCompany

👉 Twitter: https://x.com/The_CRC

👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-cost-reduction-company/

👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thecostreductioncompany8128

🙌 Enjoyed this episode?

Share it with someone exploring leadership in education or considering a career pivot into schools from the military or corporate world.

📢 Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not substitute for professional advice.

In this episode of the  ISBA Bursar Conversations, Owen Adams, Bursar at Bradfield College, shares his journey from a 30+ year military career to a strategic leadership role in education. From his time in the Royal Artillery and elite units like the Paras and Commandos to his role as Pro-Vice Chancellor at Durham University, Owen discusses how leadership, adaptability, and operational planning have prepared him to navigate the evolving challenges in independent schools.

From managing crises like COVID-19 to spearheading innovations like immersive VR learning and commercializing school assets, Owen brings a unique perspective on the business of education, cultural integration, and the future of the independent school sector.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

✅ Military Experience Builds Transferable Leadership

Owen emphasizes that Army training, particularly around coordination, influence, and integration, lays a strong foundation for leadership roles in schools, especially when managing complex communities and resources.

✅ Understanding the Tension Between Tradition and Commercial Viability

Schools must balance preserving legacy and values with the need to generate surplus and adopt business-like operations. Owen highlights how this friction is managed daily within leadership roles.

✅ COVID-19 Response as a Test of Coordination and Resilience

Bradfield College’s early pivot to digital learning and its comprehensive COVID strategy illustrate how institutional agility and strong teams can overcome crisis.

✅ From Soft Assets to Innovation Hubs

Owen argues that schools should think beyond physical facilities and consider monetizing “soft assets” such as internal skills, digital platforms, and IP, like their internally developed VR learning platform.

✅ The Future: Consolidation, Fragmentation, and Hybrid Education

With falling demographics and rising costs, Owen foresees fewer, more consolidated schools and more diverse, hybrid education models. Schools must evolve with tech, rethink pricing, and explore partnerships to stay relevant.

⏱️ Key Timestamps:

[00:00:00] – The importance of surplus and business-mindedness in independent schools

[00:00:43] – Owen’s transition from military to education sector

[00:02:17] – Leading student life and services at Durham University

[00:04:19] – Growing up in Australia and joining the British Army

[00:07:02] – Military operations and the value of collaboration

[00:10:19] – Translating Army coordination to school leadership

[00:14:00] – Institutional friction vs. business realities

[00:21:49] – Bradfield’s COVID response and digital transformation

[00:24:10] – Passion for education and desire to be a bursar

[00:25:56] – Advice for transitioning professionals entering education

[00:32:57] – Involving academic staff in financial and strategic decisions

[00:34:41] – Pay-as-you-play models and service modularity

[00:36:44] – The future of hybrid learning and tech-based schooling

[00:38:09] – In-house VR education: Campus Exile and immersive learning

[00:40:32] – Commercializing soft assets and school IP

[00:44:42] – Innovation under price pressure: new models of sustainability

Connect Our Guest on:

LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/owen-adams-aa330928

Website: https://www.bradfieldcollege.org.uk/about/senior-management-team/

Connect with Nigel Ward on:

LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/nigel-ward-author-of-using-less-stuff-88684a25

Follow Using Less Stuff Podcast on Social media:

👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCostReductionCompany

👉 Twitter: https://x.com/The_CRC

👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-cost-reduction-company/

👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thecostreductioncompany8128

🙌 Enjoyed this episode?

Share it with someone exploring leadership in education or considering a career pivot into schools from the military or corporate world.

📢 Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not substitute for professional advice.

In this episode of the  ⁨@thecostreductioncompany8649⁩  John Murphie, Chief Operating Officer at ISBA, shares his unique journey from a career in the Royal Navy to leadership roles within the education sector. With decades of experience in both military and civilian leadership, John offers an insightful perspective on governance, financial management, and the evolving challenges faced by schools today.

From managing internal operations at ISBA to navigating the complexities of school governance, John highlights key lessons on agility in decision-making, strategic financial planning, and the importance of delegation. He also discusses the challenges of managing school finances and the increasing importance of data-driven decision-making in a rapidly changing educational landscape.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

✅ The Power of Agility in Governance

John emphasizes the importance of having a flexible and responsive governance structure, where senior leadership teams are deeply involved in decision-making processes.

✅ The Role of Bursars and Heads in Financial Oversight

Bursars play a pivotal role in ensuring schools stay financially stable. However, they must also collaborate closely with heads of schools and governors to build trust and effective working relationships.

✅ Managing Change and Delegation

Delegation can be difficult, especially when leaders are diligent and want to maintain control. However, successful schools ensure their staff is empowered to take on responsibility and contribute to the school’s broader goals.

✅ The Evolving Role of Schools in Financial Management

Schools are facing pressure to justify their fees and provide value for money. John discusses the importance of understanding customer needs and how schools can adapt to stay competitive.

✅ Using Data to Drive Decisions

John suggests that schools need to become more data-driven, not just in academic performance but also in assessing the financial health of their institutions and the effectiveness of their resources.

⏱️ Key Timestamps:

[00:00:00] – Introduction to John Murphie’s career and leadership journey

[00:03:00] – Transitioning from the Royal Navy to the civilian sector

[00:06:30] – Insights from working in a cathedral and barristers’ chambers

[00:09:45] – The challenges of becoming a bursar at Twyford School

[00:13:00] – Financial management and navigating school budgets

[00:16:00] – Building trust between bursars, heads, and governors

[00:19:30] – The importance of understanding the school’s financial and educational goals

[00:23:00] – How change in leadership and structure can impact school operations

[00:26:00] – The role of data and technology in improving school management

[00:29:00] – The concept of pay-as-you-play and alternative fee structures

[00:32:00] – The future of school governance and leadership roles

[00:35:30] – Managing wellbeing and work-life balance in leadership roles

[00:39:00] – Outsourcing and delegation within school management

Connect Our Guest on:

Linkedin: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/john-murphie-52aa502b3

Website: https://www.isbarecruitment.org.uk/Home/News 

Connect with Nigel Ward on:

LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/nigel-ward-author-of-using-less-stuff-88684a25

👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/

👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCostReductionCompany

👉 Twitter: https://x.com/The_CRC

👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-cost-reduction-company/

👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thecostreductioncompany8128

🙌 Enjoyed this episode?

Share it with someone in the education sector who might benefit from hearing John’s insights on school leadership and financial management.

📢 Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational purposes and is not a substitute for professional advice.

In this episode of the ISBA Bursar Conversations, Ed Hellings shares an engaging, practical, and insightful perspective on leadership, finance, and decision-making across both corporate and educational landscapes. With a career that spans Deloitte, British Aerospace, and several prestigious schools, Ed offers a masterclass in simplifying complexity, building resilient school operations, and navigating difficult transitions with purpose and professionalism.

Whether you're a new bursar, a school leader considering financial strategy, or simply someone interested in what it takes to run a school efficiently, Ed’s candid stories and thoughtful advice will leave you informed and inspired.

🔑 Key Takeaways

✅ Simplify the Complex

The best leaders break down complicated issues into actionable parts — a skill essential for strategic finance and operational clarity.

✅ From Corporate to Classroom

Ed's transition from BAE Systems to school bursar life proves that financial acumen and people skills matter more than sector-specific experience.

✅ Know When to Speak Up

Whether it’s forecasting losses or correcting flawed contracts, early transparency is critical. “Shout loud, shout early” is Ed’s golden rule.

✅ Growth Demands Strategic Caution

Plan for growth — but cautiously. Staff and invest only when you’re confident the demand will sustain itself.

✅ Challenge is a Good Thing

From governing bodies to internal staff, constructive questioning leads to better outcomes. Fear of asking “why” is often the root of poor decisions.

✅ Proprietary vs. Charity Structures

Ed contrasts how independent for-profit and charitable schools operate, especially around financial scrutiny, flexibility, and governance expectations.

✅ Resilience Over Perfection

Being a bursar can be lonely. Strong relationships with heads and governors are crucial — as is having thick skin and a sense of humor.

⏱️ Key Timestamps

[00:00:00] – The art of simplifying complexity in leadership

[00:02:00] – From audit to accountancy: Ed's early career and management lessons

[00:05:30] – BAE Systems and learning to lead under pressure

[00:08:30] – The importance of shouting early about financial red flags

[00:09:55] – Avoiding paralysis: don’t let complexity block action

[00:11:30] – Agility over avoidance in crisis decisions like TPS

[00:14:00] – Advice for managing growing schools: plan cautiously

[00:16:30] – Small changes, big returns: the cost of an extra student

[00:18:00] – Balancing educational passion with financial sustainability

[00:21:30] – Teaching heads financial awareness — one conversation at a time

[00:23:45] – Governance dynamics: head–bursar–governor stool analogy

[00:25:00] – Loneliness in leadership and how to handle it

[00:28:00] – The hidden flaws of yearly fee increases

[00:30:30] – Weighing experience vs. cost in staffing decisions

[00:32:00] – Is 15 years too long to stay in one school? Reinvention vs. burnout

[00:34:00] – Queen Anne’s, St Mary’s Calne, and now The Marist: structural differences

[00:36:00] – How proprietary schools deal with compliance, like minibus regs

[00:38:00] – Monthly finance reviews: corporate-style school oversight

[00:40:00] – Embracing accountability and direct challenge

[00:43:30] – Outsourcing realities post-VAT changes

[00:46:45] – The next 2 years: closures, mergers, and for-profit transitions

[00:49:00] – Brave thinking: structure shake-ups and daring moves

[00:52:00] – TPS: revolution vs. evolution in decision-making

[00:53:30] – Bums on seats: enrollment drives everything

Connect Our Guest on:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-hellings-9563162/

Website: https://www.themarist.com/ 

Connect Our Guest on:

👉 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ed-hellings-9563162/

👉 Website: https://www.themarist.com/

Follow Using Less Stuff Podcast on Social media:

👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/

👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCostReductionCompany

👉 Twitter: https://x.com/The_CRC

👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-cost-reduction-company/

👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thecostreductioncompany8128 

🙌 Enjoyed this episode?

Share it with an aspiring bursar or school leader navigating today’s complex educational and financial challenges.

📢 Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational and professional insight purposes only. It does not constitute financial or legal advice.

In this powerful episode of the ISBA Bursar Conversations, Vanessa Lakatos. opens up about her extraordinary career journey from 18 years as a retail entrepreneur to becoming a respected school bursar. With candor and clarity, Vanessa Lakatos. unpacks the lessons she’s learned navigating financial risk, leadership, and the evolving role of bursars in today’s education landscape.

This isn’t just an interview, it's a masterclass in resilience, resourcefulness, and how business acumen can shape school leadership. Whether you’re an aspiring bursar, a headteacher, or someone curious about how independent schools operate behind the scenes, this episode is a must-listen.

🔑 Key Takeaways

✅ Entrepreneurial Grit Fuels Strategic Insight

Vanessa's background running multiple fashion shops sharpened her sense of ROI, risk management, and adaptability — all of which power her current leadership.

✅ The Bursar Role Is Broader Than Finances

From directing car park traffic to managing strategy, bursars wear many hats. Vanessa Lakatos. underscores the importance of visibility, collaboration, and operational expertise.

✅ Governance & Structure Must Evolve

She shares thoughtful critiques on outdated school structures, advocating for diverse governing boards, proper bursar support, and even paid governance roles.

✅ Loneliness Is Real — and Manageable

Being the "business voice" at the leadership table can feel isolating. Vanessa highlights the importance of bursar networks, peer support, and mindset.

✅ Independent Doesn’t Mean Isolated

She challenges the obsession with "independence" in schools and makes a case for collaboration, resource sharing, and strategic outsourcing.

✅ Education Needs a Modern Reset

Vanessa Lakatos. questions outdated curricula and calls for relevance — teaching financial literacy, digital fluency, and problem-solving over memorization.

⏱️ Key Timestamps

[00:00:00] – High-stakes decision-making as an entrepreneur

[00:01:00] – How retail shaped her risk tolerance and business mindset

[00:03:00] – Transitioning from self-employment to school cost consultancy

[00:05:30] – First bursar role at Padworth College and its early challenges

[00:07:00] – Shock of student trafficking scandal and safeguarding risks

[00:09:15] – Corporate ownership vs. charity model: key differences

[00:11:00] – Strategic decision-making and enjoying business operations

[00:13:00] – Relationship dynamics: Head–Bursar–Governor triangle

[00:15:00] – Recruiting diverse, skilled, and engaged governors

[00:17:30] – Are paid governance roles the future?

[00:18:30] – Entrepreneurial vs. military vs. accountant bursars

[00:20:00] – Facing isolation: SLT dynamics and support systems

[00:22:00] – Why staff need financial literacy training too

[00:25:00] – The case for shared resources, outsourcing, and group models

[00:28:00] – Should schools rethink SLT and CEO roles?

[00:31:00] – School vs. business mindset: where do they clash?

[00:34:00] – A day in the life: unexpected tasks, strategic insight

[00:38:30] – Making the bursar role visible to staff and parents

[00:40:00] – Serving on the ISBA board: influence and advocacy

[00:43:00] – Advice to new and aspiring bursars

[00:45:00] – What no one tells you about becoming a bursar

[00:47:00] – Training, CPD, and legal responsibilities

Connect with Nigel Ward on:

👉 LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/nigel-ward-author-of-using-less-stuff-88684a25

Follow Using Less Stuff Podcast on Social media:

👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/

👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCostReductionCompany

👉 Twitter: https://x.com/The_CRC

👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-cost-reduction-company/

👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thecostreductioncompany8128 

🙌 Enjoyed this episode?

Share it with a school leader, governor, or future bursar who needs to hear what leadership behind the scenes really looks like.

📢 Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational and professional development purposes only. It does not constitute financial or legal advice.

Explore smart sustainability with the Using Less Stuff Podcast, hosted by Nigel Ward, founder of The Cost Reduction Company.

Discover how organisations can reduce costs and environmental impact through behaviour change, smarter purchasing, and sustainable technologies. Join conversations with industry experts and changemakers focused on cutting waste, saving money, and building a culture of resource consciousness.

Learn from real-world case studies and practical insights that empower your business to thrive while using fewer resources. Whether you're a business leader or sustainability advocate, you'll gain tools to make meaningful, measurable change.

Follow the Using Less Stuff Podcast for powerful strategies in cost reduction and lasting sustainability.