Verticals: A Weekly Biz Show

Everyone says AI agents are the future.

But what if most of them… don’t actually work?

Not because the tech is bad, but because the way they’re being sold is completely wrong.

In this episode of Verticals, Nic sits down with Deepak Chhugani, Founder and CEO of Nuvocargo, to break down why the real opportunity in AI isn’t selling tools or agents, it’s selling outcomes.

Deepak shares how he built an $85M logistics company by focusing on results over software, and why most AI startups are struggling with retention, change management, and real-world complexity. They unpack what actually happens when you try to deploy AI inside messy, legacy systems, and why most approaches fall apart at scale.

They also explore the deeper shift happening in AI and services:

-Why selling AI agents alone isn’t a defensible strategy

They also go tactical on what is working right now:

-How to win customers by proving value (not pitching AI)

If you are building, investing, or operating in AI, this is a real look at what works beyond the hype, and what it actually takes to build a lasting company.

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 Intro

Everyone says AI will replace humans.

But what if the biggest unlock isn’t replacing people at all… it’s removing the invisible work they’re buried under?

The spreadsheets. The back-and-forth emails. The manual processes no one sees, but everything depends on.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic sit down with Chris Hladczuk, Founder of Hanover Park, to break down how AI is quietly eliminating the most boring, painful layer of work in finance, and what that unlocks on the other side.

Chris shares how his experience across Goldman Sachs, fintech, and scaling a company from 10 to 1,000 customers led him to build Hanover Park, an AI-native fund administration platform combining ERP, agents, and human expertise. They dive into why fund data is stale by design, why accuracy is non-negotiable, and why the winning model isn’t pure AI, but AI prepare + human review.

If you are building, investing, or operating in AI, this is a glimpse into what the next generation of companies will actually look like.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro

In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic sit down with Dave Pandullo and Scott Hoch, General Partners at Frontier Growth and founders of AQL Growth, to unpack where defensibility, and returns, are really coming from in vertical SaaS.

The conversation centres on why being a system of record is no longer enough, and how the next wave of value is being created by systems of action, platforms that don’t just store data, but drive decisions, workflows, and execution.

Dave and Scott share how they think about:

They also go inside how they’re using AI internally to rethink sourcing, diligence, and decision-making, including building an internal system that encodes investment judgment at scale.

If you’re a founder, operator, or investor building in vertical SaaS or vertical AI, this episode breaks down what’s changing, what still matters, and where the next layer of value is being created.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke and Nic sit down with Nick Tippmann (Founder & Managing Partner, TipTop VC) to break down what’s really happening as AI agents and workflow tools trigger panic across the markets, and where the real value (and money) will accrue over the next 12–24 months.

Nick shares the operator playbook he learned as founding CMO of Greenlight Guru (a bootstrapped vertical SaaS success story) and how it now shapes his investing thesis in vertical AI. They debate AI-native upstarts vs legacy incumbents, why the system of record is still the “oxygen for AI”, and why the most dangerous place to be might be point solutions and broad horizontal tools.

They also go tactical on what’s working right now:

If you’re building, investing, or selling in vertical AI, this is a full-on strategy session.

Today on Verticals, we sit down with Darren Feike, Founder & CEO of Sante, building a complete operating system for wine & liquor stores.

What looks like a niche is actually massive: the US liquor store market is ~$80B, and the average store does ~$2.5M in annual sales, with ~90% of locations independently owned. Darren breaks down why this market has been overlooked, how regulation creates a moat, and the exact playbook Sante used to move customers off legacy systems using AI agents.

We also go deep on:

If you’re building vertical software, embedded fintech, or selling into a regulated market, this one’s a must-watch.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke Sophinos and Nic Poulos sit down with Mike Powers, CEO and Co-founder of BuildVision, to unpack one of the hardest problems in vertical software: how to build and monetise products inside complex, multi-stakeholder ecosystems. Commercial construction isn’t a single-buyer market. Value is split across owners, general contractors, OEMs, reps, and financiers, and traditional SaaS pricing models break quickly in that reality.

BuildVision is taking a different approach: giving away table-stakes software, then monetising on outcomes, where real work is replaced, risk is reduced, and transactions actually flow. Mike brings rare, operator-level perspective. Before founding BuildVision, he worked inside Turner Construction’s strategic procurement arm (scaling over $1B in annual equipment spend), helped build BuildingConnected (acquired by Autodesk), and now serves many of the top general contractors in the US.

We dive deep into what actually works when you’re building vertical AI and software in enterprise environments: why “multiplayer” products matter, how outcome-based monetisation avoids the agency trap, and why the real moat is often data orchestration, not UI.

This episode is a deep, operator-level discussion on the next evolution of vertical SaaS and AI: how decision layers replace traditional systems of record, why free tooling can be a strategic advantage, and how founders can align pricing directly to customer value at scale.

Whether you’re a founder, operator, or investor building or backing vertical SaaS or AI in complex, regulated industries, this episode will fundamentally change how you think about monetisation, product strategy, and go-to-market.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke Sophinos and Nic Poulos sit down with Michael Saltzman, co-founder and co-CEO of EvolutionIQ, to unpack one of the biggest misconceptions in enterprise AI: Is adoption slow because the technology isn’t ready,or because the enterprise vertical AI playbook hasn’t been written yet?

EvolutionIQ is one of the first vertical AI companies to truly break through in insurance, augmenting claims decision-making inside large carriers where even small accuracy gains compound into huge financial impact at scale, culminating in a $750M exit and one of the earliest breakout outcomes in vertical AI.

We dive deep into what actually works when you’re selling and deploying AI into 10,000-person organisations: why augmentation beats automation in high-stakes workflows, how EvolutionIQ avoided getting trapped by legacy core systems, and what it takes to prove ROI fast enough to expand across an enterprise.

This episode is a deep, operator-level discussion on enterprise vertical AI: how to win adoption from frontline teams, why founder-led sales matters for longer than most people think, and why first-year revenue is often a terrible barometer for building a durable business.

Whether you’re a founder, operator, or investor building or backing vertical AI in regulated, complex industries, this episode will fundamentally change how you think about enterprise adoption, product strategy, and go-to-market.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke Sophinos and Nic Poulos sit down with Nate Baker, founder and CEO of Qualia and creator of Fractal, to unpack one of the most controversial questions in modern SaaS:

Is TAM actually too small - or are we asking the wrong question entirely?

Nate has built one of the most important systems of record in real estate, serving over 500,000 professionals, and has helped launch more than 150 vertical SaaS companies through Fractal. In this conversation, he challenges the way founders and VCs think about market size, moats, and defensibility in the age of AI.

We dive into systems of record vs point solutions, why vertical SaaS can monopolize entire markets, and how LLMs are changing what’s possible in software - not just automating work, but replacing it.

This episode is a deep, operator-level discussion on how vertical AI reshapes TAM, why speed now beats perfection, and what founders should prioritize if they’re building in regulated, complex industries.

Whether you’re a founder, operator, or investor building or backing vertical SaaS or vertical AI, this episode will fundamentally change how you think about market size, product strategy, and long-term advantage.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke Sophinos and Nic Poulos sit down with Scott Wolf, founder and former CEO of Levelset, to unpack what it really takes to build and exit a vertical SaaS company, including Levelset’s ~$500M acquisition by Procore.

Scott’s background is unusually eclectic: entrepreneurial roots, early software tinkering, a short stint as a lawyer, and a front-row seat to the construction ecosystem post-Hurricane Katrina , all of which collided into the insight that became Levelset. He scaled the business from a side project doing ~$200k in revenue to tens of millions in ARR, then navigated a fast, high-stakes M&A process that closed at the height of the 2021 market.

This conversation cuts through M&A mythology and focuses on operator reality: how acquirers think, how founders should think about timing and leverage, why the best companies are bought not sold, and what founders get wrong when they fixate on the same buyer segment (general contractors) in construction tech.

Whether you’re pre-product, scaling a vertical SaaS business, or simply trying to understand how real outcomes happen in construction tech, this episode offers a practical, founder-first playbook grounded in lived experience, not theory.

We cover:

If you’re a founder, operator, or investor building or backing vertical SaaS, especially in construction or the built world, this is a must-listen guide to how great companies get built, differentiated, and ultimately acquired.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

In this episode of Verticals, Luke Sophinos and Nic Poulos sit down with Rahul Hampel, GM & VP of FinTech at ServiceTitan, to break down what embedded finance actually looks like when it’s done right, and where most vertical SaaS founders go wrong.

Rahul has built and scaled fintech platforms at Plaid, Yelp, and now ServiceTitan. He’s seen companies 3–5x revenue per customer by layering in payments and financial products at the right moment, and others burn months building the wrong thing, too early, or for the wrong reasons.

This conversation cuts through fintech hype and focuses on real operator frameworks: when to add payments, how to think about attach rate vs take rate, why Stripe benchmarks can be misleading, and how vertical SaaS companies should sequence fintech products without losing focus.

Whether you’re pre-launch, scaling to $50M+ ARR, or debating Stripe vs Adyen vs building in-house, this episode offers a practical playbook grounded in real-world experience, not theory.

We cover:

If you’re a founder, operator, or investor building or backing vertical SaaS, this episode is a must-listen guide to turning fintech into a durable growth engine — without falling into common traps.

New episodes drop every Wednesday.

Episode Minutes

00:00 – Intro: Why every SaaS company becomes a fintech company