Voice Is

Julie and Casey chat with activist and community builder Naomi Hattaway about how to reach across political and conversational divides, housing as a human right, and how to cultivate hope. Along the way, they discuss choosing your battles, "leaky boundaries", and Wednesdays as a metaphor and a reset. (You'll never look at hump day the same way again.)

TOP TAKEAWAYS:

• Talking to someone you might disagree with? Get curious about their values. What do they care about? Can you connect through that? Also . . . know when to walk away.
• An oft-quoted stat: Women have to be asked to run for office 6 or 7 times. Maybe it's because they know that what is asked of candidates is nearly impossible . . . rather than begging women to run for office, what can we do to make the SUPPORT SYSTEM BETTER for the right candidates?
• Hope is a discipline . . . so how do we create the conditions to practice that discipline? Self-care (Naomi has a coffeemaker in her bedroom!) and community care (when you can't find the light today, I can carry you . . . and vice versa).
• Mini-Lesson: Acknowledging our given circumstances (the who, what, when, where, and why of your scene) and starting where you are, not where you wish you were.
• BONUS: Naomi made us a PLAYLIST!!

Thank you to our Season 3 sponsor, Armoire! If you're ready to try a new look, Armoire's high-end clothing rental service (full of amazing women-owned brands) will hook you up! For 50% off your first month's rental + a free item, go to http://armoire.style/voiceis and use VOICEIS in the referral box!

Books mentioned:

BURNOUT by Emily and Amelia Nagoski

POWER: A USER'S GUIDE by Julie Diamond, PhD

ONLYNESS by Nilofer Merchant

Naomi Hattaway is passionate about community building, diversity, and accessibility in online and physical spaces, and is equally driven by a vision of adequate affordable housing so folks can thrive, not just survive, in the places they call home. Naomi previously served in executive leadership at Habitat for Humanity of Omaha, and consulted with nonprofits and organizations on inclusive program design, mutual aid and housing solutions. In addition to recently leading the COVID-19 eviction prevention and rental assistance program, and the 2020-2021 Winter Plan non-congregate shelter efforts in Omaha, Naomi is a licensed Realtor, and recently ran for Omaha City Council in West Omaha.

Follow Naomi on Instagram and Twitter, or visit her website.

Julie and Casey chat with Elsa Isaac, stylist extraordinaire for entrepreneurial women, about what we wear and why it matters. Along the way, they dive into what is "appropriate", changing bodies and finding ways to make your authenticity more visible.

TOP TAKEAWAYS:

• No one can give you style or do you better than you do, but a stylist can observe, notice, and collate patterns and help you put it all together.

• Your body language actually shifts when you wear something you feel good in. It doesn't matter if something is "In" or not. If it doesn't make you feel good, it's not gonna work.

• People change, needs change, and BODIES change and that is normal! Transformation is expected as we grow. The more time you spend wishing to be different, the more time you're stealing from the work you're supposed to be putting out into the world.

• Mini-lesson: POLISH! What the heck is it, and is it even important?

Thank you to Armoire for sponsoring VOICE (is)! Find them at https://armoire.style/voiceis and use code: voiceis

Elsa Isaac is an NYC-based fashion + image stylist who believes style is really all about self-expression. A seasoned pro with 18 + years in the fashion industry, the east African-born stylist has built quite a noteworthy portfolio, having bestowed her stylish magic on everyone from Marie Forleo to Lenny Kravitz; Katie Couric to Kris Carr. Nowadays, she helps successful career women + entrepreneurs revamp their wardrobes + create show-stopping ensembles that flatter their unique body shapes and lifestyles. A self-dubbed anti-fashion stylist. Elsa doesn't believe there's one standard of beauty + strives to empower all her clients to celebrate their own individuality. Learn more about Elsa's extensive styling skills + fresh perspective on fashion over at www.ElsaIsaac.com

Julie and Casey sit down with Kim Perkins, former journalist and pro speed-skater turned coach and positive organizational psychologist, to discuss how we know what we know about human behavior. Along the way they dive into authenticity at work (and why it may not actually be a good goal), studying competitiveness when no one wants to admit that they really want to win, and how to ask better questions instead of look for easy answers.

We also welcome our Season Three sponsor, Armoire, a clothing rental company for women who love great style but hate shopping. Try Armoire today via our link for 50% off your first month, PLUS an extra item! Use "voiceis" in the referral box for your best discount.

TOP TAKEAWAYS

• Our society currently seems to equate authenticity with the knee-jerk reaction (our FIRST response to a stimulus) . . . especially on social media, when so often that knee-jerk response can be a fear-based reaction, and not how we actually want to act. And on that note, maybe "bring your whole self to work" is neither possible nor ultimately DESIRABLE . . .
• Sometimes, the correct scientific way to gather human data (i.e., the gatherer being a blank / neutral presence so that they don't influence anyone) actually gives us flawed information, and the incorrect way (sharing some of your own humanity with the people you're studying) gets you the truth . . . but it's not "scientific". WHEW. What does this mean for how we know what we know about human behavior?
• How do we, as smart, savvy consumers of information, discern between what's informative and what's bullshit with the "studies say" genre of news article?
• Mini-lesson: What is work armor, why do we develop it, and what if we want to upgrade to something better? Take our work armor quiz to find out!

Kim Perkins holds a Ph.D. in positive organizational psychology. A former journalist and pro athlete, Kim works on purpose, culture, and communication with leaders at cutting edge science, tech and entertainment companies. Her first book, Winner Take None (2022), explores the role competition plays in our lives.

Casey Erin Clark and Julie Fogh, founders of Vital Voice Training and co-hosts of the VOICE(is) podcast, host a panel discussion on executive presence. In it, they explore the nebulous definition of executive presence and how our idea of what leaders should look and sound like has marginalized so many. Along the way, expect corporate horror stories, tales of triumph, and big laughs . . . along with truth bombs and mic drop moments that blow the idea that leaders need to look and sound one particular way out of the water.

Phnam Bagley is building the future . . . literally. She is a speaker, educator, and founder of the firm Nonfiction Design, taking on everything from headphones to furniture to space architecture to turn science fiction into reality. http://nonfiction.design

Kelly Hoey is the author of BUILD YOUR DREAM NETWORK, speaker, community builder, and world-renowned expert in networking. She also has an extensive corporate background in both law and finance. http://jkellyhoey.co

Christina Blacken is revolutionizing the modern workplace with her company New Quo, introducing how narrative intelligence can be used to tackle inequities and make work work better for everyone. http://thenewquo.com

Patty Alvarenga is on the ground every day running conversations on equity and inclusion that are shaping the future of work with The Collective. http://hello-collective.com

Watch the video version here.

Phnam Bagley is a French Industrial Designer and Space Architect with 15 years experience designing hardware in Audio, Wearables, Biotech & Healthcare, Luxury Goods, Transportation, Sports and Aerospace. She has designed and led teams at varied design consultancies including IDEO, Lunar, Matter and Lifestyledesign. Phnam's work spans 4 continents, and companies ranging from Fortune 500's to startups. Clients include Intel, Comcast, Facebook, Atari, Halo Neuroscience and more. She speaks internationally on the subject of "Design for a Better Future", covering stories of groundbreaking technologies, responsibility, design thinking and education. Phnam is the CEO and Design Director at Eternal Luxe, a brand of luxury goods made in USA. She also teaches industrial design at California College of the Arts and mentors at Founder Institute.

Networking expert Kelly Hoey is the author of Build Your Dream Network: Forging Powerful Relationships In A Hyper-Connected World (Penguin Random House). She's working on her second book which focuses on the unique networks women need for career success. A frequent speaker and source for networking insights, Kelly has been lauded from Forbes ("1 of 5 Women Changing the World of VC/Entrepreneurship") to Fast Company ("1 of the 25 Smartest Women On Twitter") to Business Insider ("1 of the 100 Most Influential Tech Women On Twitter") and Inc. (1 of "10 Most Well-Connected People in New York City's Startup Scene"). Empowering A Billion Women By 2020 included her on their list of the "100 Most Influential Global Leaders Empowering Women Worldwide". Not bad for a former corporate lawyer. Connect with Kelly via www.jkellyhoey.co.

Christina Blacken: I'm a public speaker, performer, and founder of The New Quo. The New Quo is a leadership development and inclusion consultancy helping leaders create inclusive cultural and organizational change through their narrative intelligence. I have helped 1500 leaders at Fortune 500 companies and VC backed startups leverage the psychological power of story to transform behavior, build inclusive culture, and communicate new ideas with deeper connection and influence to achieve status-quo breaking goals through training, courses, consulting, and coaching.

In my early career, I worked for 10 years across four industries, using stories to drive change including inspiring 300k teens to take action on social causes, and closing 6.5M in sales with the teams and household brands she's worked with. The New Quo has been featured in Elle.com, Cosmopolitan, Marie Claire, Huffington Post, Forbes, Business Insider, and Thrive.com among other outlets. I graduated from Cornell University with a Bachelors Degree in Policy Analysis and Management. As an Utah native & NYC resident for 10 years, I know far more uses for jello than she'd like to admit.

Patty Alvarenga (she/her) is a diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant and Sr. Strategist at Collective. She has deep experience in building DEI programs from the ground up across the tech industry, ranging from large corporations to high-growth startups. She now works with clients across many different industries, helping them distill complex DEI concepts into impactful and executable strategies that advocate for meaningful change. Her lived experiences as a Latina woman and an El Salvadoran immigrant fuel her commitment to create equitable organizations where everyone can be their full authentic selves and thrive. Patty holds a B.S in Marketing from the University of Florida. In her free time, she loves to explore national parks with her backpack and tent, ride her bike, and eat pupusas from her favorite LA restaurant.

Julie and Casey chat with multidimensional visual and sound artist and hiphop ambassador D. Cross about exploring sound without filters, finding your path as an artist and educator, breaking down walls between disciplines. Be prepared for some poetry, multigenerational beatboxing, and hearing all about his innovative ad campaign and top secret recipe for "Universal Cola".

TOP TAKEAWAYS

• "Voices / voice"—what if we have more than one?
• The rich history of D. Cross's influences from the late 70's/80's: Buffy Robinson from The Fat Boys, Michael Winslow (voice artist/actor/comedian), Al Jarreau, Doug E. Fresh, and of course, cartoons.
• Between his spot on imitations of famous figures (and his teachers) and a bit of class clown instinct, D. has some STORIES to tell . . . all of which point to the freedom and unfilteredness that we start out with as vocal creatures. What if we brought back that childlike spirit to exploring our voices and what they can do?
• Sometimes the gifts others see in us don't match our own narrative of what we're supposed to do in life . . . but that information can be rewarding when we try it on for size.
• Learning to powerfully express yourself and your point of view must live side-by-side with the curiosity about others' voices and perspectives. It's an exchange.
• The crucial ingredient of vulnerability (and therefore bravery) when we think of both play and authenticity
• Lesson: Consonants create compelling communication. (How's that for alliteration?)

D.Cross (Derick Cross) is a Queens NY-born and Brooklyn-based multi-dimensional vocal and visual performance artist and arts educator. He creates imagery and vocal art that transcends and crosses boundaries of genres and labels.

This "Vocal Beat Expressionist" uses "vocal acrobatics " to create sonic collages of his poetry combining words, raps and beatboxing. He has performed nationally & internationally in venues including Madison Square Garden, SOB's, BB Kings, The New Vic Theatre, Carolines, and Lincoln Center's Avery Fisher Hall. Mr Cross was selected as a cultural HipHop Ambassador for The US State Departments Next Level program. He recently served as a Hiphop Cultural Diplomat in Azerbaijan.

D.Cross has been featured on MTV, The Electric Company Nickelodean, TV Land and BET's 106 and Park. His vocal talents have been featured on the award winning Aflac "Pigeon Rap" ad and 7–Up 's "10" campaign. He was the Hottest Poets $10,000 Spoken Word Grand Champion of 2002/03 as well as a member of their international slam team of 2003.

D.Cross' visual art has been exhibited nationally and internationally (Sweden and Brazil). His artistry is currently featured in Dr Myrah Brown Green's award winning art anthology "Brooklyn On My Mind". Cross's work can be found as part of the collections of Erykah Badu (Singer), Ed Lewis (Founder of Essence), Ruby Dee (legendary actress), Judith Jamison (Alvin Ailey), Kool Herc (Hiphop founding father), Big Daddy Kane (Hiphop Legend), and Bashiri Johnson (world renowned percussionist). Mr. Cross is also a SVA (School of Visual Arts) graduate (Bachelors of Fine Arts) who has worked as an Arts Educator teaching youth visual arts and poetry for the over the past two decades.

Follow D.Cross on Instagram.

Julie and Casey sit down with legendary San Francisco dancer and drag performer, Monique Jenkinson, aka FAUXNIQUE to talk about performing femininity, both through drag and not, finding authenticity through practices of artifice, and the journey of a Good Dance Student to nightclub performer, and get some San Francisco Dragucation. *Note- we use the "c***" word a LOT in this episode, so take care for sensitive ears.

TOP TAKEAWAYS

• Drag is not (just) men in heels—it's a rich, smart, funny, scrappy performance tradition that uses the body and artifice to access larger themes.
• Other kinds of drag performance of femininity include the good girl persona, and the world of ballet.
• Your curiosity is a prelude to discovering your wants- conditioning can make wants hard to identify, curiosity allows you to find them, lose them and find them again. Owning your curiosity, desires, and wants is crucial
• Practices of artifice can be a version of authenticity
• Balance is the answer to binaries—balance allows for dynamic movement and change between points.
• Your strut is the embodiment of your energy as you enter a space, whether that is virtual or physical, and being with your right to be seen with the willingness to contribute what you have.

Please join us next week for a Strut Workshop with Monique 4/28 4pm PST/7pm EST. Details are HERE: https://vitalvoicetraining.com/labs

Find Monique at fauxnique.net

ODC June Performance: https://www.odc.dance/festival

Other People and Events Mentioned in the episode:

Heklina: https://www.dragtimewithheklina.com/

Juanita More https://juanitamore.com/

TrannyShack https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468563/

Prince "Cream" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468563/

PJ Harvey Sheela Na Gig: https://youtu.be/Sjxr_No-yuY

Ana Matronic and Scissor Sisters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scissor_Sisters

About Monique Jenkinson: "I am an artist, performer, choreographer and writer. I made herstory as the first cis-woman to win a major drag queen pageant and subsequently my solo performance works have toured nationally and internationally in wide-ranging contexts from nightclubs to theaters to museums — from Joe's Pub, New Museum and the historic Stonewall in New York City, Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, ODC Theater, The Stud, CounterPulse and de Young Museum in San Francisco, and in Seattle, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Provincetown, London, Edinburgh, Berlin, Zürich, Paris, Reykjavik, Rome, Catania and Cork.

I have created space for kids to dress drag queens at a major museum and created college curricula. I played the DIRT (originated by Justin Vivian Bond) in Taylor Mac's Lily's Revenge and Eurydike in Anne Carson's ANTIGONICK. I engaged in public conversation with Gender Studies luminary Judith Butler and RuPaul bestie Michelle Visage within days of each other. I am currently writing a memoir.

Honors include residencies at Headlands Center for the Arts, Tanzhaus Zürich and Atlantic Center for the Arts, an Irvine Fellowship and residency at the de Young Museum, GOLDIE and BESTIE awards and 7X7 Magazine's Hot 20. I have been nominated for the Theater Bay Area, Isadora Duncan Dance (IZZIE) and Herb Alpert Foundation awards and have received support from San Francisco Arts Commission, Foundation for Contemporary Arts, CHIME, Center for Cultural Innovation and the Kenneth Rainin and Zellerbach Family foundations."

Julie and Casey sit down to talk with Pleasure Strategist Lidia Bonilla about the value, politics, and fear around women's pleasure, what it takes to go from survive to thrive, and life lessons from caring for an ill parent.

TOP TAKEAWAYS

• Reclaim your pleasure by following your curiousity
• Pleasure is your god given right
• Pleasure is unproductive by capitalist standards- yet it's essential to our well being
• Pleasure is about connection, numbing is about disconnection
• We stay in our misery because it's safe and familiar, but believing our misery is as good as it can get keeps us cut off from our pleasure and potential
• Lesson: Following your curiosity

Lidia Bonilla is an empowerment coach and product inventor, committed to women having lives full of power, pleasure, and intimacy. She is the founder of House of Plume, an intimate lifestyle brand that provides the discerning consumer with storage options for their pleasure items. Lidia co-founded Women of Sex Tech, a global organization dedicated to merging sex and technology. She is a highly sought after expert, whose work has been covered by the New York Times, Refinery 29, Forbes and Essence Magazine. I'm passionate about speaking on topics like making pleasure a habit, learning how to love your body, and creating a life of freedom and authenticity.

Julie and Casey sit down with speaker/top LinkedIn voice/author of The Memo Minda Harts to talk about how she cares for herself as a speaker (and how she became even more visible during lockdown), claiming your voice and your identity, and how all of us can strive to leave the workplace better than we found it. Along the way, we discover our mutual love for the Golden Girls.

TOP TAKEAWAYS

• Sometimes, you can't wait for someone ELSE to write the book or say the thing you wish they would, even if you think they may be more qualified than you . . . you have to do it yourself.
• What skills do the people who are in the rooms I want to be in have? "If you see yourself in those roles in the future, you should start working on that stuff now."
• For introverts who want to explore more visibility: remind yourself WHY you're doing it, and make small, specific goals.
• The crucial question for white folks who care about diversity, equity and inclusion and want to make the workplace better for everyone: what are the everyday acts that we can do to humanize the experience of others, especially others who might be different from me?
• "There's no shortage of power if we share it."
• You are the authority on your own lived experience. "I knew I had a voice. I just had to decide how to use it. And once I made that decision, it was very clear what to say next."

Minda Harts is the CEO of The Memo LLC and an award- winning and best-selling author of The Memo: What Women of Color Need To Know To Secure A Seat At The Table. Minda is a Professor at NYU Wagner and hosts a live weekly podcast called Secure The Seat. In 2020, Minda was named the #1 Top Voice for Equity in the workplace by Linkedin. She is an Aspen Ideas Festival Scholar and has been featured on MSNBC's Morning Joe, Fast Company, The NY Times, and Time Magazine. Minda frequently speaks at companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Nike, and Bloomberg on topics such as Managing Diverse Teams, Courageous Leadership, and Advancing women of color in the workplace.

Julie and Casey sit down with theatrical casting director (and Tiktok rock star) Kate Lumpkin, to talk about the stories we tell and why we tell them, changing the jargon that creates unhealthy power structures, how authenticity happens in front of an audience, and burning our old ideas of "type" to the ground . . . both inside and outside of the theater world. Prepare for the dropping of many, many mics.

TOP TAKEAWAYS:

• Kate's background in anthropology and folklore provides one of the major lenses for her work: how stories shape and change the world. "We hear this mythos that there are only seven stories and we keep repeating them and refreshing them and re-illuminating them […] but what I find fascinating is how we've taken those core hero stories and TRANSFORMED them over time, and the potential we have to continue to transform them if we change the gatekeepers of who allows us to tell what stories."
• The power of words and the problem with jargon: A phrase consistently used in the theater world is to refer to the casting director and creative team as "the other side of the table" . . . which, inherently creates a divide (and a power imbalance) in what ideally should be a space of play and collaboration.
• On being "Publicly Personal"—when people walk into the audition space that Kate creates, they know who she is, they know what she stands for, they know that she's there to listen and be their champion without judgement.
• On the surface, a casting director's job is to "acquire talent for a production" . . . but in addition to her job getting to know the immense talent pool of actors out there, Kate also finds herself being part therapist, politician, director, HR person, and explorer.
• Type came out of the studio system in Hollywood, and was a way to essentially commodify an actor's personal brand into something audiences would come back again and again to see . . . but where type has landed is "what do (mostly) white men find attractive/witty/sexy/charismatic" and what they can imagine someone with your body doing onstage. Rather than an actor trying to identify their "type" (fitting into someone else's narrow box), she'd love them to think about their through line as a person: how does that expression of self affect what stories you want to tell and what point of view that their life's journey allows them to bring to a role/story (of which your body is certainly a part . . . but not the whole).
• What is your Point of View? The moments in your life that have made you YOU + the code that you live by (what you stand for, what you would fight for, what you believe in) + how you filter those things out of your body and into the world (how you express yourself).
• Authenticity and performativity are NOT antithetical . . . because everything we do is in concert with other humans. We are always performing. So, how do we curate an authentic self that shows up? First of all: YOU are the arbiter of your own authenticity. Secondly: it requires self-reflection (those moments than shift your POV happen all the time). We have to check in with that, and we have to not judge the previous versions of our authentic selves. And . . . do the work. Stay curious. Learn about yourself. Go to therapy. Do the work. Things look performative when we try desperately to adhere to an external standard (what is popular, what is "successful") rather than doing the inner work.
• On that "thing" that certain people walk into a room with (charisma, confidence, whatever you want to call it) — it comes from having done that inner work on knowing who you are . . . and bringing it into the room with no apology or need for permission or validation. When you have that, you don't have to even talk about it or "show it off" . . . you just ARE.
• Kate considers her Meisner training "a two year professional certificate in listening." Because this type of training is about listening and repeating, listening and repeating, listening and repeating, you not only learn to hear what's being said, you learn to observe what's underneath. In addition, Meisner requires that you get comfortable with discomfort, including the messier parts of ourselves. If we learn to sit with our own "messy uglies" and have compassion for those parts in other people, we could really change everything.
• DO NOT MISS Kate's Big 5 question answers.
• LESSON: Getting out of the "prove yourself" mindset and walking into the room with power.

Kate Lumpkin (she/her) is the Founder of and Lead Casting Director at Kate Lumpkin Casting, CSA. Collectively, as a casting professional, she has worked on over 40 TV/Film productions and 80 theatrical productions in New York City and across the USA including shows at The Kennedy Center, The Actors Theatre of Louisville, The A.R.T, NYTW, and many others. Kate teaches workshops in New York and at numerous Colleges and Universities. She is a private coach to clients all around the world. Kate is also the host of Broadway WELLness for Playbill.

Selected casting credits include: New York Theatre: OSCAR @ The Crown, We Are Here (dir. Steven Hoggett), Medusa, We Are The Tigers, Safeword, Afterglow, Cleopatra, The Bad Years, Eco Village, A Complicated Woman, Boarders, Between The Bars, Unraveled, Letters to the President, Reunion '69, Single Rider, Diaspora, The Other Side of Paradise, Counting Sheep, Sitting Bull's Last Waltz, The Excavation of Mary Anning, Agent 355, Emma: A New Musical, Love In Hate Nation, Five Points, Hart Island, Eastbound, Interstate, Honey Dipped Apocalypse Girls, Fefu and Her Friends. National Tour: Bandstand (1st National Tour). Regional Theatre: Endlings at American Repertory Theater, West Side Story at The Kennedy Center, On The Town at The Kennedy Center, Beau at The Adirondack Theatre Festival, Evocation to Visible Appearance at Actors Theatre of Louisville, We Are Here at The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas, Opium at The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas , A Christmas Carol 18', 19' at Actors Theatre of Louisville, Reunion '69 & Reunion '85 at the Newman Center. For more information, please visit kate-lumpkin.com. @katelumpkin

Interview intro and outro music: "Elevator Heart," music by Julia Meinwald, lyrics by Sara Cooper, from the musical Elevator Heart, music by Amy Burgess and Julia Meinwald, book and lyrics by Sara Cooper

Julie and Casey sit down with leadership coach Iggy Perillo to talk about how outward bound survival trips are an excellent learning ground for leaders, strategies for difficult people and conversations, and what it's like to leadership coach a grieving roller derby team.

TOP TAKEAWAYS:

• The outdoors has a lot to teach leaders including living your values, delegation, team work, and allowing everyone one meltdown.
• Keep things tangible when you are defining your goals—what is "winning" to you? How do you know when you've achieved it?
• In difficult conversations, address the behavior, not the individual. What are they DOING that is keeping you from there, and how can they fix it?
• For those impression-based feedback conversations: get more information about vague feedback by asking for specific examples of the behavior and how you can improve. Make sure you both are crystal clear what is being asked.
• The nuclear phrase for feedback you don't agree with is "how does this feedback align with the values of our organization"

Sign up for a mastermind group with Iggy here.

ABOUT IGGY:

I am a product of the Midwest who gets nostalgic about cornfields. I started in the field of experiential human development at the dawn of the twenty-first century which basically meant that I spent a lot of time outside entreating fifth graders to jump out of trees while hooked to ropes or scaring the crap out of them by hiking in woods at night under the guise of environmental education.

Ratcheting up the intensity I progressed to instructing personal growth oriented canoe/backpacking and dogsled/ski expeditions in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. This included teaching people how to cook over an open fire and the power and self efficacy that comes from carrying everything you'll need for a few weeks in your boat/sled/on your back. Even though it often felt like an individual endeavor to people it was done in a team context so my attention to the creation and culture of the team was also crucial. Doing this work with teens and adults made me realize that as the age of the participants increased it was my job to make sure the sophistication and impact of conversation topics kept pace. The evening fire wasn't just wilderness tv, it was a place for talking about the struggle and growth of the people and their team; who someone is and who they want to be. I made that growth real to people and helped them navigate the world as the person they wanted to be. It was glorious to spend 150+ days a year sleeping outside facilitating the emergence of leaders and excellent teams. Eventually I added in spending a bit of time training other people to do this same thing.

Along the way I earned a Master's Degree in Experiential Education and a teaching license in English Language Arts (obviously, right?). I did a ton of training on topics like: conflict resolution, restorative justice and mental health first aid mixed with technical wilderness travel and safety skills. I earned some fancy pieces of paper saying I can either likely keep you alive in various situations or that I do a pretty good job of not letting you get too close to dead in the first place. And I read what feels like a billion research driven books on topics in related fields like neuroscience, behavioral economics, educational psychology, performance studies and experiential theory. I still read all the time - they never stop coming out with new research or books.