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Here at Voices in the Dark we're doing our best at Learning How To Human, but sometimes we – like everyone else – face some stumbling blocks. This is a special episode where we share some recent (and dramatic) hiccups along the road for both of us.
Each of us took a trip recently. Jon went to stay in a cabin in the woods in the middle of nowhere. No electricity, no hot water; just a wood-burning stove and the Scottish countryside to keep him company. He was hoping for some peace and clarity, but instead found himself in a sustained panic attack for two days.
Dre took a rather different kind of trip – one courtesy of DMT, often called the most powerful psychedelic in the world. In the process, Dre died... and Andrea came back to life. He shed an identity that had been curated and developed for a purpose some years ago, but which had come to feel like old skin obscuring and trapping his true self.
We always try to bring ourselves fully to the table when we sit down to record the show, but this episode gets especially deep and very personal. If you're facing your own challenges or painful transitional phases, this one is definitely going to resonate with you.
Hit us up with any questions, thoughts, or tales of your own similar experiences – we'll be making more Q&A style episodes going forwards!
Be Silly. Be Kind. Be Weird.
Drawing on Letter 38 from Seneca ('On Quiet Conversation'), this episode digs into the immense value of real, face-to-face conversation for all aspects of our lives. Emails and texts can be great, but sitting down in person changes the game, whether it's a massive business deal, or a chance to (re)connect with another person.
It's almost a meditative thing to have a conversation because, unless you're stuck in your head for some reason, it is a mindfulexercise. You are in the moment.
– Andrea
And being in the moment means not just waiting for the other person to stop talking so you can start throwing your opinions around – that's not only bad manners, but is highly unlikely to convince anyone that what you say is worth listening to. As Seneca neatly puts it,
Philosophy is good advice, and no one can give advice at the top of his lungs.
– Seneca
It seems to be a human universal that we just can't stand being preached down to. Even if the information is good and we might actually agree with the content, if it's delivered in a condescending tone or hurled at us aggressively, we'll resist out of principle. So if we want to win someone over to our cause or point of view, we're going to have to practise that subtle art of conversation.
In fact, for Seneca, the onlytime to use the aggressive mode is when you're trying to get someone to wantto learn and listen. That's a handy tool, but one to be used with caution, as we explore in the episode.
Still, Andrea's not so sure there isn't somesatisfaction to be gained by forcing the issue:
If it's one of those 'take the horse to water, but you can't make it drink' [situations], and out of belligerent stubbornness you eventually drown the horse in the water...When I get to those moments I do feel some satisfaction, even though the point's been lost and nothing's been achieved!
– Andrea
Drowned horses aside, we go on to explore how science is more an attitude than a practice and how it can serve us in every part of our lives. Curiosity is the fertile ground we need to cultivate if we truly want anything to grow there. But the same is true for the people around us – we can't hope to grow new ideas in minds that simply aren't ready or willing to receive them (yet).
And fertile requires sensitivity and connection:
An idea doesn't have value by itself. It requires context. It requires connection with other people...
– Jon
One way to address that issue is to try for the minimum effective dose of communication – don't bluster away boring people to tears, but try to find a point of connection as simply as possible.
What is art and communication all about, really? Jon's got a theory that much of our life is driven by the search for a 'soul echo' – to hear something of our deep, personal experience echoed back to us, so we know we're not isolated, separate, or uniquely alone.
And along with these deeper bouts of philosophical thinking, this episode Andrea threatens to shit in your mouth, we try to plant an oak tree in your head, and Jon realises he might be the hapless 'everyman' character in this podcast.
Also Including:This next instalment in our Sex & Relationships Seriesis a stunning episode that brings us into dialogue with some of the most important, yet often-ignored, parts of the human condition.
You might not've heard about Chemsex, but it's a growing epidemic that's not only destroying lives, but which also tells us a lotabout how we think, feel and talk about sex.
So we went to the man who created the term 'Chemsex' in the first place – David Stuart of the world-renowned 56 Dean Street Clinic. He's an epidemiologist, activist, former addict and drug-dealer who's now invited by healthcare professionals from around the world to advise them on how to tackle Chemsex in their communities.
So what is Chemsex? At first Andrea and Jon assumed it simply meant taking drugs in the context of sex, which would surely include alcohol, MDMA, or even psychedelics. But soon they discovered this isn't what the label 'Chemsex' was coined to describe at all. Instead, it describes a specific, widespread and deeply disturbing phenomenon that involves addiction, hook-up culture, self-understanding, social prejudice, internalised homophobia and the profound isolation of modern life.
In many ways, Chemsex vividly lays bare the hangups we all experience in relation to finding, having, and understanding sex. This episode certainly isn't specifically or only about gay sex, drug use, or addiction. It's about the fundamental psychology of sex; what it means to be vulnerable; and how we can allowourselves to enjoy who we are and express that sexually with others.
Dating apps (check out our episodeon them) have played a major role in the spread of chems and Chemsex, but as with the apps themselves, they arguably reveal our problems rather than creating new ones.
So why do people take drugs in the context of sex?
There's as many reasons for using drugs as there are fingerprints on the planet
– David Stuart
Chems make anxiety and insecurity go away. Chems can make you feel like a god with near-limitless energy and have you careening from sex partner to sex party for literally days on end.Chems take away the doubt, the negative voices in your head telling you you're not in good enough shape, or that the person you're with isn't really into you.
Or they simply allow you to feel you deservesex or deserveto enjoy pleasure, free from a mind buzzing with questions like 'Am I clean down there? Who's going to be top and bottom? Can I keep it up? Am I doing this right?'
What world have you [been living] in that the definition of 'good sex' is 'a performance that manages to avoid any rejection'? But a lot of the guys that I talk to do struggle with the disinhibitions that we deserve to feel when we're having sex.
– David Stuart
But this isn't a conversation in which we simply assume that drugs are bad; what's important here is to understand what people's relationshipswith particular drugs are, how they fit into their lives, their work, and their sense of self. Our challenge is to do so with compassion and understanding – something David is particularly well-equipped to do.
David's own life story means that he's no distant observer of these issues. He's both open and remarkably insightful about his own chem use and HIV status; his history as an escort and a drug dealer; as well as his continuing personal work to move beyond the homophobic attitudes which he internalised growing up. He's been through the fire, but now, tempered by those experiences, he's using what he learnt for the benefit of others.
The reason I stopped doing drugs is not because I identified as an addict or they became really problematic for me [...] it was because I had this realisation that some of the people I was playing with... I was damaging them. I think I was playing a role in a journey they were on towards chaos and harm. And I suddenly realised after years of this – way too late – that I wasn't an island. I was impacting other people. And resilient as I might be, others weren't. That was the reason I stopped.
– David Stuart
The legacy of gay liberation and the AIDS epidemic means that talking about Chemsex at allcan be deeply painful for older gay men, because in the eyes of some commentators, it can make homosexuality seem dangerous and unclean all over again. Many who fought for gay liberation would rather label Chemsex 'a drug problem', but ultimately it's more than that: it's a symptom of a much deeper set of problems. With chems, as David puts it, 'We're trying to medicate something we're finding difficult to manage in our bedrooms or in our intimate lives...'.
David's honesty, insight and eloquence bowled us over; we learnt a lot from him, not only in terms of raw information, but about how to approach so many issues around sex with compassion. Being prescriptive and judgemental is not going to help any of us, and David reminds us that we must always leave space for mistakes and not judge ourselves (or others) too harshly when those mistakes inevitably happen. As he puts it, for healthcare providers,
We'll always do our jobs better if really understand the humanityof the 'foolish' mistakes we make in bed
– David Stuart
Jon also shares his own experiences, mistakes, misunderstandings and hard-to-shake prejudices, as well as whether he feels that the history of AIDS and gay liberation is truly 'his' history, when he never had to experience any of it directly.
And, in the end, we all agree that 'kindness will solve Chemsex'.
Also Including:Be Silly. Be Kind. Be Weird.
This week we riff on Seneca's Letter 47, 'On Allegiance to Virtue' – it's short, but richly rewarding to dig into. It's about how life can seem like a battle – an unfair one – that we never consciously agreed to, yet are thrust into the midst of.
How can we change our experience of life into a glorious adventure rather than a horrible, Sisyphean trudge? Seneca's got some pointers and Jon and Andrea have got more to add: This week we explore how to reset your emotional baseline; give some practical tips on shifting your mindset from shit to shiny; and talk about why intentionally forcing yourself to face acute threats is a really good idea.
Does life have to be a battle in the first place?
I really don't think life is a battle at all. Most of the time life is pretty dull unless you're trying to change it.
– Andrea
Jon's not so sure – being stuck in a 9-to-5 that you hate can feel like a Sisyphean labour with no outcome, something our ancestors didn't have to deal with. At least when you gathered some berries you had some berries at the end of it – your identity, 'career' and sense of 'meaning' weren't on the line in the process!
But maybe we're looking at goals in the wrong way. What if we escaped the financial spreadsheets and set emotionalgoals for ourselves instead? Instead of thinking 'I need a million dollars', what if we aimed at 'I want to buy a house for my grandmother', or 'I want to have a beautiful library I can relax and learn in'?
Still, this self-development game can be tricky – especially when the people providing it rarely have it together themselves. Or, as Andrea succinctly puts it:
Self-development is a cunt's hair away from mental illness
– Andrea
We also talk about stress – the good kind, and the bad kind. We've evolved to thrive when we're faced with acute, short-term threats and difficulties, not to exist in the constant state of unending stress and anxiety that modern culture currently provides. Seneca touches on this when he says that, in some very real ways, the gladiators facing death in the arena have got it better than those of us who struggle each day to make a meaningful life. At least the threats they face are tangible, clear, and existential in the most immediate sense.
Employers and our mentality about jobs are also a root cause of our anxiety and angst. Why do companies still think that they own their employees, rather than recognising that people are paid for providing the work that company needs? Why do we buy into the idea that we should be loyal to someone who clearly doesn't value us, but only the work we produce on demand?
Switching back to the internal work, we've got some powerful tools to reset your emotional zero-point. Be it climbing a mountain, doing some intense cardio, or sitting in yoga positions, Andrea breaks down how these physical exertions can have powerful psychological, physiological and emotional benefits. That's right – sometimes you can defeat fear by swinging some kettlebells or going for a long walk.
In this letter, it seems like Seneca thinks he's cracked the code of life, that the only path to the good life is hiskind of wisdom. We're not so ready to take his word or his path, though – there's many paths to get to the same destination. Some people call it 'enlightenment', others call it 'flow', still others call it 'balling'. Seneca says the one path is 'wisdom' and that it will avoid all fuck-ups, but:
It's back-to-front to say that you won'tblunder if you use wisdom. You will haveblundered in order to become wise.
– Jon
And while Seneca exhorts us to become more self-aware and able to see where we're going with our choices in life, Andrea has a different take. While that's undeniably important, it can also be the oppositeof freedom. Sometimes the dumbest people seem to be the freest... still, if you were offered an elixir right now to be ignorant but happy, would you actually drink it?
There's also time for Jon to have a minor meltdown over how awful Reddit is; we accidentally cause the Holocaust with a custard pie; and Andrea devours the fruit of the Tree of Wisdom and Despair.
Also Including:Be Silly. Be Kind. Be Weird.
This isn't the first timewe've crossed paths with Peter Sage, a world-renowned speaker, serial entrepreneur, author, and mentor... But to say that a lothas changed since our first meeting would probably win us a medal at the understatement olympics.
Since we saw him last, Peter's life was turned upside-town when he became the only civil prisoner in one of Britain's toughest and most violent prisons. Going up against Princess Diana's former lawyers, Peter landed behind bars for contempt of court during a dispute with HP.
In the months that followed, Peter had to learn some hard lessons about egotism, over-reaching, and that the justice system isn't about justice – it's about power.
After the dust had settled on the verdict, Peter knew he had to make this period of incarceration mean something, so he went into Pentonville prison a self-consciously free man. As he puts it,
Prisons [...] take away liberty, but freedom is a state of mind
– Peter Sage
He saw himself as an undercover agent for positive change. But what change could he make in a place where 3 murders in a single week is business as usual? How can you stay safe and sane in such an environment, and what do you learn about yourself in the process?
Peter shares his prison stories and takes us deep into a world of super-charged social dynamics. Friends, foes, factions and fear: all familiar ingredients to us, but we find them at their most tense and extreme in the prison environment.
In a place like Pentonville, showing or even feelingfear can be dangerous – not just because other people can sense it, but because:
When fear rises, intelligence plummets
– Peter Sage
This takes us right back to our series on The 50th Law, which was all about adopting and embodying the Fearless Approach to life – to embracing that which scares us and walking with eyes and mind wide open into the uncomfortable places where change and growth can happen.
On the other hand, you can choose the path of fear, resentment and egotism. For the first time, Peter opens up about what happened between him and Brian Rose of London Real. His appearances on that show were two of its biggest hits, making a positive impact on thousands of people, but as the prison gates swung shut behind Peter, several erstwhile friends also slammed the door in his face.
Peter sets the record straight about London Real and the way his interviews have been pulled down, likening it to the actions of 'an authoritarian dictatorship'.
His time inside has also produced the first Peter Sage book: The Inside Track, a reflective prison diary, which you can check out through the link below.
It was great to have Peter back in the studio and to dig deep into the world of crime and punishment, egotism and insight, and to try and find a balance between ambition and a healthy sense of our own limitations.
Also Including:Find Peter:
Be Silly. Be Kind. Be Weird.
Riffing on Letter 35 from Seneca ('On the Friendship of Kindred Minds'), this one takes us deep into the nature of human connections and how we can find true love and true friendship.
Seneca's decided that Lucilius just isn't keeping up – he's not ready to become a true friend – an equal – of Seneca's, and Seneca is growing restless. He urges his mentee to get his shit together and focus so that they can finally talk as companions.
Even outside the mentor-pupil relationship, this is something we've all experienced.
Have you been in a relationship, or even a friendship, where you've felt that despite all the common ground and mutual understanding, there's still a blockage to trueconnection? Maybe the other person hasn't experienced enough in life yet to be able to see things from your vantage point; maybe they've hardened their opinions to the point of dogma and what seemed like a harmonic growing between you keeps scraping through a distressing discord?
But is Seneca going about this the right way? When is telling someone they're not 'on your level' an encouragement rather than an emotional (and ineffective) attack? We think there's better ways to negotiate these situations than a grumpy letter from a lonely old man.
This short letter leads us into a lot of deep and important parts of the human mind and how we connect (or don't) with other people. It touches on relationships, idealising others, the differences between friendship and love, and how our memories can keep us captive instead of teaching us lessons.
Also Including:Be Silly. Be Kind. Be Weird.
Poet, writer, philosopher and artist JJ Bitters joins us this week midway through a tour through Europe and Africa. And he's just come out of the closet...
OK, not thatcloset! JJ originally wanted to create art without ego, so he chose the pseudonym 'The Unknown' to keep is identity separate from his art. But can you survive and get the word out that way – and how much of yourself can you pour into art which is intentionally disconnected from you?
JJ has written about mental health, psychedelic discoveries, deep philosophical questions... and lately he's been writing children's poetry that touches both the beauty and wisdom of growth and existence, all accompanied by simple and captivating illustrations.
This beautiful conversation ranges naturally from art to relationships, to the pursuit of happiness and self-knowledge – in fact, it's precisely for conversations like this that we wanted to have guests on the podcast in the first place. So strap yourself in for a smart, challenging, and ultimately uplifting ride.
We dig in to what creativity is and how we can overcome the resistance we so often face when we seek to be original. Does creation always have to come with or from pain, or is there a better way to route our energies?
'It's easy to hang onto the pain, because it's more extreme – it feels more real. Joy is a little bit more of a cloud.
– JJ Bitters
These days, JJ is a freethinking spirit, but back when he was younger he was practically a religious zealot with his eye set on becoming a priest. Looking back, he spent his youth refusing to have fun or even to masturbate during his prime teenage years! As he puts it now,
'If religion was alcohol, then I was an alcoholic'
– JJ Bitters
So how does that transformation come about, and what did he learn along the way? It's been a rocky road – JJ's suffered with depression for most of his life, but somehow he consciously managed to escape the worst of it. He shares the tactics and mental techniques that have largely freed him from the Noonday Demon, and his philosophy on how we can channel our energy into positive, rather than negative, channels.
We also tackle the question of relationships and break-ups and the havoc they can wreak on our sense of identity. How can we be ourselves andbe with someone else?
'I don't want to me with someone who needs me. Because that's a person who has some work to do on themselves'
– Jon
We even play with the infamous idea of the 'law of attraction' – is there any useful reality to it, or is it just whistling in the dark?
JJ and Jon also share some of their deepest psychedelic experiences and turning points – painful and joyful – that have brought them to where they are now.
Also Including:What's wrong with being a Nice Guy? Isn't that what everyone wants in a partner?
No, they don't. Nice Guys aren't nice. Nice guys are a problem – for themselves and for the people they want to seduce.
Because Nice Guys aren't what you (or they) think they are. They're the people pleasers who never truly ask for or say what they need. They're the approval-seekers (or disapproval-avoiders). They're the fixers and the caretakers who're always keeping a mental balance sheet in their minds: Because I do X for you, I should get Y in return. But it's all left unspoken, slowly bubbling away in a cauldron of resentment until it explodes into miserable, angry fights.
And anyway, being nice to someone doesn't get you a cookie. It's not some wondrous gift that sets you apart and makes you attractive. It's the minimum we should expect of ourselves!
This episode's probably going to upset some of you. In it, we take apart the myth and reality of the Nice Guy and challenge you (and ourselves) to be responsible for our own needs and emotions.
So let's start at the beginning: realising that you have needs in a relationship and that you have to articulate what they are. If you don't express your needs, you're just expecting everyone around you to be a mind-reader: have you told them? If not, why are you getting ever-more angry that things aren't going the way you want them to?
'People don't even know themselves. To expect them to know you is just foolhardy'
– Dre
This isn't the same as being needy, though. Nothing is less seductive than being needy. It's the antithesis of value, and our human brains have long evolved to figure out what's 'valuable' and what's not. Having something (or someone) be infinitely available to you and never offer any challenge or feedback means you've priced yourself at zero. And other people are going to detect that very quickly.
In a healthy relationship, people want a companion and a confidante – not some kind of henchman.
So how do we talk about needs without being needy? How do we escape the Friend Zone?
The most important element here is boundary-setting and having the courage to say 'No' to what we don't want or won't accept. This is the opposite of playing mind-games: this is about establishing the rules of the game so that everyone can then get down to actually playing and having fun.
And if it turns out the person you're trying to seduce isn't willing or able to respect what you need – it's time to call it quits. After all:
'You can't successfully have a relationship with someone who isn't able to respect your needs'
– Jon
We're not beating up on Nice Guys from the sidelines, though: Jon opens up about an abusive relationship he was in, in which he was the nice guy, and all the many mistakes he made (as well as what he's learnt from them).
We also cover how to set up clear lines of communication from the start of a relationship so that subterfuge and mistrust aren't the order of the day when problems inevitably start to arise.
So let's stop being nice and start being authentic. Are you ready?
Also Including:You know those people who can quote passages of Shakespeare, have read all the great novels, and who always seem to have an aphorism to hand? Well, fuck them. Having a moribund storehouse of other people's knowledge isn't the same as being smart, let alone creative.
In Letter 33, Seneca doesn't want us to learn the Cliff Notes version of anything; he doesn't want us to post brief quotes on Instagram; and he certainly doesn't want us to keep hiding behind other people's wisdom, however valuable it might be.
Or, to put it another way:
It's good to know, dog, but don't be trippin'!
– Seneca
But wait a minute – is it really so bad to know a few useful, guiding quotes or summaries of the greats? We can't all read the complete works of Shakespeare... But Seneca has a point. The summary might seem powerful, but if we don't know how the artist got there, we can't appreciate the full meaning, resonance or impact of those words.
There's also a danger to thinking that everything said by someone we admire is important or insightful. So we play a 'guess who said this inspirational quote' game – because 'bad' people sometimes say great things, and vice versa.
Wisdom out of context isn't wisdom at all. It can even become evil. The words don't have the wisdom, but they can help us unlock what we're ready to learn.
So what if we use maxims and quotes not as the end point, but as the starting point for us to find out more? What if we let them pique our interest rather than do our thinking for us?
Seneca wants us not to just parrot the opinions of others, but put something of our own forward – to create something new, believe that you have something to offer, but still appreciate that everything we say and do is part of the broader context of what's come before.
What's the use of knowledge if it's not being put to use?
Thinking and learning is only meaningful if it has some resonance in your life
– Jon
We do need to practise, we do need to learn the basics. But there's a turning point when that knowledge becomes alive, when you've internalised the concepts and can now become creative.
It's time to step out of the masters' shadows, just as they had to in their own time.
Men who have made these discoveries before us are not our masters, but our guides.
– Seneca
This is one of our favourite episodes to date; let us know what you think and if you're ready to take the leap and contribute what you think.
Also Including:In Letter 32 Seneca wants us to stay the course, rather than endlessly making fresh starts and chasing fads. As he puts it,
'We break up life into little bits and fritter it away'
– Seneca
That can cheat us of doing the Deep Work we need to make progress, rather than endlessly skimming the surface and thrashing about like a hyperactive child in a paddling pool.
But we're not so sure things are always that simple, especially when it comes to creativity and self-development. Sometimes we don't need a laser-like focus on just one thing, to the exclusion of all others. Sometimes we just need to be able to put those 'little bits' in the right order so they start making sense rather than disrupting our flow.
Focus is as much a matter of timing as gritting your teeth and going all-out. Think about it this way, in the words of the legendary jazz musician:
'I don't need time – what I need is a deadline'
– Duke Ellington
So this episode we take a different tack to Seneca. Let's not be remorselessly focused, but able to live in a diffuse way that allows the subconscious and creative mind the space they need. Then, when the time comes to knuckle down, you can coalesce and get things done in the shortest time possible.
But we're not advocating one-stop-shop solutions here. Very few things that are wrong about how we feel can be fixed with one change, whatever your CrossFit-obsessed friends may tell you.
What matters isn't the 'solution', in any case: what matters is what questions you're asking and how you feel about a particular solution. That's a tricky distinction, but it's a crucial one, which we unpack in a few practical and powerful steps.
Progress sounds good, but imagining change can be one of the hardest things we do. Part of the problem lies in a deep philosophical issue that we all face: Not being able to properly imagine or recall a different state than the one we're in. We forget what it felt like to be pain free, or not depressed, or what a psychedelic state actually feels like when we're not in it. That's why we're always oddly surprised when winter comes round again and it really does get dark at 4pm (at least in Britain – urgh).
Don't worry, though – we've got lots of ideas on how to overcome these challenges and make change and progress that feels tangible, meaningful, and positive. Plus there's time to ban 'being happy' as an idea, and to hear about Dre's rather intense plans for electing an heir to his legacy...
Also Including:From the publisher's feed