Vygotsky Podcast

Eric has worn many hats: experimental songwriter, programmer, journalist, environmental analyst, family man, amateur cook, conversationalist, and more.  How do these complementary talents fit together?  In spite of our 20+ year acquaintance, this was our first real face-to-face conversation.   (Originally published March 1, 2020)

Highlights include: 

1:00 - Two questions from Vivienne 

2:21 - Eric's unique life in the UK; family stuff, job stuff ("I am a programmer.") 

7:00 - Eric's hobby: 'news-analysis' programming 

8:11 - A question from Madeleine on the topic of food 

12:23 - How do Programmers name their children? 

15:11 - Is Eric "out" as an experimental musician?  

16:33 - Spontaneous songwriting, and the benefits of self-imposed constraints 

19:22 - Eric's antidote for anxiety and thoughts on creativity ("a skill that you can learn") 

23:35 - Coding as a kind of songwriting 

26:04 - Eric's experimental programming work with "news analysis" 

34:46 - Eric's personal backstory and interest in media narratives -- a wild, international story 

41:04 - Working as a reporter in D.C. ("I know how the sausage is made.") 

44:13 - Definitions of the word "narrative" 

48:02 - Navigating 'grey areas' (facts, fictions, and factual fictions) 

49:07 - Harms and non-harms of Trump's BS 

1:00:35 - "The kids today"  

1:03:33 - "The View from an AI" (alien, or artificial, intelligence) -- analyzing human genres 

1:07:48 - Won't A.I.'s master even the fine arts (emotions included)?  

1:10:09 - Which genre are WE in, Eric? (We're not programmed, right?)  

Eric's twitter: https://twitter.com/ericness  

More on Eric's blogging: http://tiny.cc/1vuokz 

Russell conjugation: http://tiny.cc/xdkpkz

Part 2 of 2 -- Professor Nikolai Veresov presents research examples for each of the 5 experimental research principles of Vygotsky's Genetic Research Methodology (GRM).  In order to solve puzzles once thought unsolvable, Vygotsky managed to devise a theory (Cultural-historical theory) and a new research method (GRM) to complement the theory. This exclusive episode is appropriate for all researchers - and educators - with serious interest in Vygotsky's ideas. (Originally published June 13, 2020)  

Please enjoy: 

0:14 - Brief introduction 

0:30 - Principle 1 - Research example (Minson et al, 2016) - paper here: http://tiny.cc/5a3vnz 

7:00 - Principle 2 - Two ways of using this principle 9:25 - Principle 2 - How does Nikolai uses this principle as a psychologist? 

10:54 - Principle 2 - Research example #1 (Fleer et al, 2019) - paper here: http://tiny.cc/g73liz 

14:32 - Principle 2 - Research example #2 (Nasciutti et al, 2016) - paper here: http://tiny.cc/dq1vnz 

20:15 - Principle 3 - Research example #1 (Ashraf, 2018) - paper here: http://tiny.cc/ho1vnz 

25:45 - Principle 3 - Research example #2 (van Oers, 2013) - paper here: http://tiny.cc/mv1vnz 

29:24 - Principle 4 - Research example #1 (Nourkova, 2016) - paper here: http://tiny.cc/u62vnz 

31:24 - Principle 4 - Research example #2 (Minson et al, 2016) - paper here: http://tiny.cc/5a3vnz 

36:04 - Principle 5 - How to use the principle of sustainable neoformations  

Part 1 is located here: http://tiny.cc/gf7qqz  

The original sources for all clips are located here: http://tiny.cc/db8qqz

This exclusive episode is appropriate for all researchers - and educators - with serious interest in Vygotsky's ideas.  Vygotskian psychologist Nikolai Veresov introduces and discusses the 5 experimental research principles of Vygotsky's Genetic Research Methodology (GRM). In order to solve puzzles once thought unsolvable, Vygotsky managed to devise a theory (Cultural-historical theory) and a new research method (GRM) to pair with the theory.  This video is Part 1 of 2.  Part 2 will discuss specific experiments that have been conducted with these methodological principles. (Originally published June 13, 2020) 

Please enjoy: 

0:15 - Brief introduction 

0:43 - What does it mean to conduct a Vygotskian experiment?  

2:21 - Who is the target audience here? 

3:44 - What is different about this Vygotskian research method? 

4:45 - How do the 5 research principles relate to the theory itself? 

7:02 - Principle 1 - How to find the 'buds of development' 

11:32 - Principle 1 - Where are the buds? 

14:11 - Principle 2 - How does this 'principle of drama' work? 

18:09 - Principle 2 - Will any type of drama do?  

19:37 - Principle 2 - Why is this experimental research principle so important? 

23:35 - Principle 2 - How and why to apply the principle of drama 

28:23 - Principle 3 - How does this 'principle of real and ideal forms' work? 

30:36 - Principle 3 - A simple illustration from Vygotsky 

38:49 - Principle 3 - Two main considerations when designing research with Principle 3 

41:07 - Principle 4 - Why is this 'principle of developmental tools' so important? 

42:42 - Principle 4 - Vygotsky's law of 4 stages of every higher psychological function's development 

45:35 - Principle 4 - How does principle support research (and learning)? 

47:56 - Principle 4 - What sorts of research questions does Principle 4 address? 

50:56 - Principle 5 - Important context: Vygotsky's method was new by necessity 

53:53 - Principle 5 - Are all changes sustainable "neoformations"? 

57:44 - Principle 5 - How does this 'principle of sustainable results' keep us humble? 

1:00:16 - Principle 5 - How can we use this principle in experimental studies? 

1:04:23 - Reflection - Are most researchers who cite Vygotsky using these 5 principles?  

Part 2 is here: http://tiny.cc/q29qqz  

The original sources for all clips are located here: http://tiny.cc/db8qqz

Some interesting paragraphs from Thinking & Speech, Ch. 6, pp. 169-70 (Originally published July 26, 2020 at http://tiny.cc/4nylsz) 

I am trying to understand Vygotsky's theory in a way that's easy to explain.  This is harder than I had hoped.  For instance, a sufficient understanding of dialectics appears to be a requirement.  Here, I share helpful notes from a trusted source -- Kevin deLaplante -- with sincere thanks. (Originally published March 2, 2020 at http://tiny.cc/4nylsz)

About Kevin: https://www.argumentninja.com/about

The principle of sustainable results, or "neoformations," serves many functions, including keeping us humble. What is the difference between additive and developmental change? What are "qualitative reorganizations"? How essential was "dialectical logic" to Vygotsky's breakthroughs, and what role should it play in Vygotskian research? Chat 5 with Vygotskian psychologist Nikolai Veresov, who weighs in on these topics and cautions against undervaluing them. (Originally published Jun 13, 2020 at Chats about CHT http://tiny.cc/kmylsz)

Highlights include: 

0:31 - The circumstances that led to Vygotsky's breakthrough 

6:45 - Vygotsky's paradigm shift from formal logic to dialectical logic 

14:04 - What does "qualitative reorganization" mean? 

18:51 - Are all changes an indication of development? ("differentiation") 

24:54 - Transformation: Transformers and Terminators 

31:47 - The artificial intelligence of machines and people 

39:26 - Humanity is the thing; Nikolai's lament on the drying up of cultural resources 

47:28 - Vygotsky's method and his theory go together, and belong together 

56:01 - Why the humility of Principle 5 is so important 

58:25 - The dangers of 'overselling' the importance of the social & 'destroying the buds' with pseudoconcepts 

1:00:59 - Can the development of scientific concepts (scientific thinking) be rushed?  

1:06:20 - How can we use Principle 5 in research and in classrooms? 

1:15:16 - Challenges and benefits of using these five principles 

1:25:42 - Principle 5 (neoformations) as the 'humility principle' 

1:29:54 - Neoformations are reorganized systems, not just transformations or 'something new' 

1:34:43 - The importance of longevity and transfer 

1:37:33 - Will there be bridge-building with Nikolai's critics?  

1:40:30 - Demonstration: scientific concepts are systems of concepts   

5 Principles for Vygotskian Research: http://tiny.cc/1fisqz

Nikolai and I continue chatting about GRM, the "genetic research methodology" that unifies Vygotsky's Cultural-historical theory.  GRM is the experimental side; CHT is the theoretical side. This is chat 4. (Originally published April 21, 2020 at Chats about CHT http://tiny.cc/kmylsz)

Highlights include: 

0:58 - Nikolai discusses his new book (translation of Vygotsky's late lectures for teachers) 

6:01 - How many laws did Vygotsky discover?  11:20 - Our goals for today - Conducting a Vygotskian Experiment (Principle 4) 

12:30 - Nikolai's role in identifying the 5 Principles of Genetic Research Method 

14:42 - Why this experimental principle is important 

15:01 - Relation between Principle 4 (experimental principle) and Mediation (theoretical principle) 

20:31 - Two types of mediators: physical tools and psychological tools (i.e., signs) 

24:48 - The principle of signification distinguishes human from other types of development 

28:14 - Who mediates? (as opposed to What mediates?) 

32:10 - Interdependence of social interaction and mediation 

34:48 - Signification vs signalization: Vygotsky's departure from Pavlov (speech is not a 'second signal system') 

40:24 - Is a genre synonymous with a sign or family of signs? 

42:46 - Veronika Nourkova's research on the development of memory 

44:43 - How is the Principle of Developmental Tools related to the rest of Cultural-historical Theory? 

50:20 - Vygotsky's neglected "most important" law of cultural development: The Law of 4 Stages 

1:00:24 - HPFs develop at different rates -- law of 'de-synchronicity' 

1:05:37 - The importance of Principle 4 as an experimenter and researcher 

1:08:29 - What is universal about human psychological development? 

1:11:11 - How the law of 4 stages can support research - e.g., Minson study 

1:15:16 - Some examples of how (uniquely human) cultural memory works 

1:21:27 - Importance for teachers -- very interesting! 1:25:48 - When Nikolai was young . . . and always late 

1:28:59 - Which kinds of research questions can be answered with Principle 4?  

1:31:56 - Are there ways to identify students' differing rates of HPF development?  

1:34:29 - A favorite joke about motivation 1:39:09 - Which HPFs are in action in certain academic tasks?   

References: 

L. S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works, Vol. 1 Foundations of Pedology - http://tiny.cc/vtlhnz 

Tools of the Mind - https://toolsofthemind.org/about/history/ 

"Refocusing the Lens of Development: Towards Genetic Research Methodology" - http://tiny.cc/wflhnz

Looking to rethink, retool, or redesign your teaching?  Michael W. Smith excels at making learning challenging, meaningful, and fun. I know this from personal experience. (Originally published April 17, 2020 at Chats about CHT http://tiny.cc/kmylsz)

Highlights include: 

1:07 - What jumps to mind when I think of Michael Smith 

2:26 - Michael's current work: Essential Question-driven urban, college-prep focused 

5:52 - The clever use Semantic Differential Scales as a motivating "easy in"  

9:18 - Initiating students into academic "communities of practice"  

12:36 - Using Simulated Texts as case-study data (and a great personal story) 

17:35 - The merits of Inquiry and Environmental Instruction (a Hillocksian approach) 

19:11 - Incentives to write your own simulated texts  

23:55 - The Inquiry Square -- a great way to re-tool or revise your teaching  

32:49 - "Argument" in the classroom vs. argument in the world ("rational" dojo vs "persuasive" street) 

39:57 - "Bad teaching I have done" -- revisiting the Inquiry Square 

42:52 - "The heart of the matter" -- Michael's breakthrough and the inquiry square's role in it (Catcher in the Rye "Simulation Games") 

53:09 - How about the role of function? 

56:30 - Salience! Levels and Dimensions of Setting (and 'Setting as rule-setting') 

1:04:00 - The unity and interplay of literary elements (setting, character, conflict, theme) 

1:09:01 - Reading people (real and fictional) - revising gut impressions    

References of interest: 

Some of Michael's books - http://tiny.cc/7k08mz 

"Remembering George Hillocks, Jr. 1934-2014" - http://tiny.cc/ha08mz 

"Teaching Writing to Adolescents" - http://tiny.cc/wz08mz 

"Why Rational Persuasion is a Martial Art" - http://tiny.cc/jh08mz

Chat 3 with Nikolai Veresov, who presents a heuristic toolset for Vygotskian research that is flexible and customizable to a range of settings.  This is part 2.  (Originally published February 14, 2020 at Chats about CHT http://tiny.cc/kmylsz)

Highlights include: 

0:30 - What kind of theory is this? How is it possible to collect data that shows the "Hidden process" of development? Is this the most important and most difficult challenge in psychology? 

4:05 - Vygotsky had to invent a new method of research (GRM) -- a new method of data collection and data analysis (the Genetic Research Method, or Experimental Genetic Method) 

8:31 - Potential problems in the traditional research method 

9:44 - How Good Is Your Memory? A demonstration of Biological vs Cultural memory (and the effect of cultural tools on higher mental functions)  

15:58 - Vygotsky's warning on mistakenly comparing apples to oranges (or worse, fruits to boots) 

20:30 - Strengths of the traditional method 

23:03 - What does it mean to conduct Vygotskian experiment?  

24:47 - How to find the Buds of Development (Principle 1) 

29:23 - Nikolai discusses Minson's use of Principle 1 to aid children's storytelling 

36:35 - How and why to apply the Principle of Drama (Principle 2) 

46:10 - Introduction to Principle 3 - explanation of the concept and advice for researchers 

57:46 - What if the ideal form is present and interacting but very painful? (the role of pleasure or pain) 

58:57 - A Principle 3 research design requires two tasks: provide the most efficient ideal forms and ask what are the most efficient ways of interacting with the child and the forms (very teacher-friendly) 1:01:12 - Key distinctions between language and speech (discussion of Ashraf's use of Principle 3) 

1:06:34 - Using role-play to fuel the interaction of ideal and present forms (Bert van Oers research) 

1:08:57 - The benefits and importance of research alignment (theory, methods, collection, analysis, etc)  

This video is a continuation of our previous conversation, located here: http://tiny.cc/75y0jz  

References:  

Victoria Minson on https://psyjournals.ru/en/kip/2016/n3/minson.shtml  

Tanzin Ara Ashraf on second language speech development: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325180210_Teaching_English_as_a_Foreign_Language_in_Saudi_Arabia_Struggles_and_Strategies 

Bert van Oers on role-play as fuel for the interaction of ideal and real forms: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1350293X.2013.789199  Enjoy ~ https://twitter.com/cvoelter/status/1153932664925298693

Chat 3 with Nikolai Veresov, who provides a range of ways to understand dialectics -- and its role in explaining the relationship between lower and higher mental functions.  (Originally published February 15, 2020 at Chats about CHT http://tiny.cc/kmylsz)

Highlights include: 

0:30 - What does 'Hegelian method' mean? 

3:30 - Dialectics as a kind of predictive logic, and a discussion of 'quantitative change' sparking 'qualitative leaps'  

7:00 - Mechanical systems vs. Organical systems 

9:10 - What does "qualitative reorganizations" mean? 

10:15 - Dialectics as a "philosophical method of thinking about organical systems given that they are always in the Process of Development" (Being and Becoming) 

12:05 - Vygotsky discovered how to indirectly apply this philosophical method to psychology 

13:45 - How original was Vygotsky's breakthrough? 

16:46 - How are lower and higher mental functions (LMF/HMF) related to each other? 

19:00 - An example: the development of voluntary ("or cultural") attention 

23:15 - Possible ways to help HMFs develop 

26:00 - Are social relations a type of quantitative "heat" that qualitatively changes the "water"?   

The second part of this conversation is here: http://tiny.cc/g9c8jz  

References:  

"The transition from quantity to quality: A neglected causal mechanism in accounting for social evolution" - https://www.pnas.org/content/97/23/12926  

“Higher mental functions are not built on top of elementary processes, like some kind of second storey, but are new psychological systems comprising a complex nexus of elementary functions that, as part of a new system, being themselves to act in accordance with new laws” Vygotsky, L.S. (1984). Sobraniye sochinenii, Vol. 6, p.58