Wallfacer Podcast

Today’s guest is Sébastien Derivaux, co-founder of Steakhouse Financial. We discuss the evolution of real-world assets in DeFi from MakerDAO’s pioneering experiments to today’s institutional-grade credit infrastructure, the recent mF-ONE private credit controversy and what it reveals about risk management in tokenized assets, and how Steakhouse built a $1B+ vault curation business on Morpho. Seb shares unfiltered lessons from five years of bringing TradFi credit on-chain—from Société Générale’s groundbreaking tokenized bond deal to defaults to launching Grove as a Sky Star allocating $1B into CLO strategies.

GUEST LINKS:

* Sébastien Derivaux: https://twitter.com/SebVentures

* Steakhouse Financial: https://twitter.com/SteakhouseFi

* Steakhouse Financial Website: https://steakhouse.financial

HOST LINKS:

* Ryan Rodenbaugh: https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh

* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi

* Vaults.fyi X: https://x.com/vaultsfyi

* Wallfacer X: https://x.com/wallfacerlabs

SUBSCRIBE TO WALLFACER PODCAST AND SHARE WITH FRIENDS:

* Apple

* Spotify

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs

* Substack: https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast

TIMESTAMPS:

* [00:00] Introduction & Background

* [02:20] MakerDAO’s Early RWA Experiments: Société Générale, Centrifuge & Lessons Learned

* [10:02] The Economics of RWAs: Cost Savings, Efficiency & What Actually Works On-Chain

* [16:31] Why Crypto Needs RWAs: Yield Sources, Composability & Liquidity Challenges

* [24:20] The mF-ONE Controversy: What Happened & How to Think About Private Credit Risk

* [31:00] Commercial Break

* [34:17] Risk Management Philosophy: Lenders vs. Investors & Diversification Strategy

* [42:46] Comparing RWA Risk to Crypto Collateral & Evolution of Market Perception

* [48:53] Building Steakhouse: Three Business Pillars & Becoming a Morpho Curator

* [51:45] The Future of Curation: Market Structure, Competition & Traditional Finance Entry

* [57:08] Vault Governance: Non-Custodial Design & How Morpho Captures Value

* [59:58] Grove Protocol & Sky’s Star System: Decentralized Allocation Strategy

* [1:04:33] Looking Ahead: Term Lending, Yield Curves & 10-Year Vision

Today's guest is Andrew Keys, co-founder and chairman of The Ether Machine and managing partner of DARMA Capital. We discuss why crypto treasury companies offer superior returns to ETFs through active yield generation, the structural limitations preventing ETFs from capturing Ethereum's full economic value, and Andrew's $654 million bet on Ethereum's future as the infrastructure for a decentralized internet. Andrew also shares lessons from a decade building Ethereum's institutional adoption and why clean corporate structures matter more than speed to market.

GUEST LINKS:

* Andrew Keys: https://x.com/AK_EtherMachine

* The Ether Machine: https://x.com/TheEtherMachine

* DARMA Capital: https://x.com/darmacapital

HOST LINKS:

* Ryan Rodenbaugh: https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh

* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi

SUBSCRIBE SECTION: Subscribe to Wallfacer Podcast and share with friends:

* Apple/Spotify: https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs

* Substack: https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast

TIMESTAMPS:

* [00:18] Andrew's Background & Early Ethereum Journey

* [05:39] ETFs vs Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs)

* [08:15] North Star Metric: Ether Concentration Per Share

* [09:54] Institutional Investor Education & Market Response

* [10:25] Ethereum's Evolving Narrative & Stablecoin Product-Market Fit

* [12:40] Ethereum's Market Dominance in High-Quality Liquid Assets

* [16:57] DARMA Capital's Institutional Staking Business

* [20:35] Why Go Public: Philosophy vs Opportunity

* [22:46] Regulatory Environment & Long-Term Vision

* [23:54] Clean Corporate Structure Strategy

* [28:10] The Future of Altcoin DATs & Market Sustainability

* [29:36] Lessons Learned: From Naive Decentralization to Meeting People Where They Are

Today's guest is Rob Montgomery, co-founder and CEO of InfiniFi. We discuss how fractional reserve banking principles can revolutionize DeFi yields, the symbiotic relationship between InfiniFi and Pendle, and why traditional finance assets may finally have a compelling reason to migrate on-chain.

Rob shares insights on building automated asset-liability matching systems and his vision for bringing TradFi capital into crypto through superior yield optimization.

GUEST LINKS:

* Rob Montgomery: https://twitter.com/RobAnon94

* InfiniFi: https://infinifi.xyz

* InfiniFi on X: https://x.com/infiniFi_

HOST LINKS:

* Ryan Rodenbaugh: https://x.com/ryanrodenbaugh

* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi

* vaults.fyi on X: https://x.com/vaultsfyi

Subscribe to Wallfacer Podcast and share with friends:

* Apple / Spotify: https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs

* Substack: https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast

TIMESTAMPS:

* [01:01] InfiniFi's Timeline & Rapid Growth

* [02:47] Capital Composition - Retail vs Institutional

* [05:52] What is InfiniFi?

* [08:00] How Duration Users Get Higher Yields

* [09:31] Tranching Analogy & How It Works

* [10:33] Portfolio Selection & Governance Process

* [17:58] Complex Governance Structure Vision

* [21:24] Risk Assessment & Due Diligence Process

* [23:34] Duration Asset Adoption in Crypto

* [27:59] The Pendle Relationship & Symbiosis

* [29:38] Background on Resonate vs Pendle

* [31:03] Why Haven't Competitors Built This?

* [33:14] Network Effects & Defensibility

* [34:35] RWA Vision & Tokenizer Strategy

* [39:14] Revenue Model & Performance Fees

* [40:54] What Haven't I Asked About?

* [41:22] Success Metrics Beyond TVL

Today's guests are John Morrow, COO and Co-founder of Gauntlet, and Holt Butler, Product Lead for Gauntlet USD Alpha. We discuss Gauntlet's evolution from protocol risk consultants to direct vault operators managing $700M+, the emerging "vault curator" role in DeFi, and how they're bridging TradFi and DeFi through products like gtUSDa. We also explore the competitive dynamics reshaping DeFi lending markets and why automation beats governance for capital allocation.

GUEST LINKS:

* John Morrow: https://x.com/jmo_mx

* Holt Butler: https://x.com/0xhotl

* Gauntlet: https://x.com/gauntlet_xyz

* https://gauntlet.xyz

* Gauntlet USD Alpha: https://app.gauntlet.xyz/vaults/gtusda

HOST LINKS:

* Ryan Rodenbaugh: https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh

* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi

* gtUSDa on vaults.fyi: https://app.vaults.fyi/opportunity/base/0x000000000001CdB57E58Fa75Fe420a0f4D6640D5

* Wallfacer: https://x.com/wallfacerlabs

SUBSCRIBE SECTION: Subscribe to Wallfacer Podcast and share with friends:

* Apple / Spotify: https://www.wallfacer.io/podcast

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs

* Substack: https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast

TIMESTAMPS:

* [00:13] Gauntlet's Evolution: From Risk Models to Vault Management

* [07:14] Defining the Vault Curator Role

* [14:50] Behind the Scenes: Vault Management Operations

* [17:54] Aera Protocol & Gauntlet USD Alpha Launch

* [25:20] Institutional vs Retail Capital Allocation

* [33:04] Customer Relationships & Platform Ownership

* [36:56] Real World Assets & Cross-Chain Strategies

* [46:25] DeFi Lending Competition: Morpho vs Aave

* [49:26] Gaming, Tokenized Assets & Future DeFi Use Cases

Today's guest is Ivan Kozlov, co-founder of Resolv Protocol. We discuss how Resolv has been successful with tranching, their yield-bearing stablecoin architecture, and why most TradFi instruments fail when transplanted to crypto. Ivan shares his contrarian take on distribution strategies and his ambitious vision to "stablecoinize" hedge funds, credit funds, and eventually everything.

GUEST LINKS:

* Ivan Kozlov: https://x.com/Iv4n_Ko

* Resolv Protocol: https://x.com/ResolvLabs

* Resolv Journey (Roadmap): https://resolv.xyz/journey

HOST LINKS:

* Ryan Rodenbaugh: https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh

* Vaults.fyi: https://twitter.com/vaultsfyi

* Wallfacer: https://x.com/wallfacerlabs

SUBSCRIBE SECTION: Subscribe to Wallfacer Podcast and share with friends:

* Apple

* Spotify

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs

* Substack: https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast

TIMESTAMPS:

[00:00] Background & Journey from Nuclear Physics to DeFi

[03:15] Why TradFi Products Fail in Crypto

[09:39] What is Resolv Protocol

[14:56] Tranching Mechanics & Risk Segregation

[24:27] Market Segmentation & Risk Profiles

[29:53] Distribution Strategy & Go-to-Market

[40:01] Multi-Chain Expansion Philosophy

[48:17] Future Yield Sources Beyond Delta Neutral

[54:26] Five-Year Vision & Market Size Predictions

Today's guests are @DeFi_Dad and @Nomaticcap, co-hosts of The Edge Podcast, authors of The Edge newsletter, and prominent angel investors. We discuss the foundational role of Bitcoin ideology in shaping the crypto industry, why Ethereum is "woefully undervalued," and the gap between crypto narratives and reality in today's market. Plus, where they're placing their angel investment bets in 2025.

Guests:

* DeFi Dad: https://twitter.com/DeFi_Dad

* Nomatic: https://twitter.com/nomaticcap

* The Edge Podcast: https://x.com/edge_pod

* The Edge Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz

Host:

* Ryan Rodenbaugh: https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh

* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi

Subscribe to Wallfacer Podcast and share with friends:

* Spotify:

* YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WallfacerLabs

* Substack: https://wallfacerlabs.substack.com/s/podcast

Show Notes:

[00:00] Intro & Origins

[05:02] Nomatic's Backstory

[10:33] The Bitcoin Foundation

[16:14] Modern Blockchain Philosophy

[24:59] Ethereum Sentiment & Conviction

[31:26] Ethereum's Path Forward

[37:45] The User Advantage

[40:39] Storytelling vs. Reality Problem

[46:39] DeFi Evolution: The Curator Model

[55:20] Portfolio Examples & Strategy

[1:00:40] DeFi Tokens in Top 20 Problem

[1:11:25] Future Bets & Trends

[1:21:21] App Layer Thesis

[1:26:29] Mispriced Opportunities

[1:27:32] Wrap-up & Where to Find Them

Please like, subscribe, and leave a positive review. It helps us get the show in front of more listeners and viewers (Apple, Spotify , YouTube)

Today’s guest is Dion Chu, Co-founder and CEO of Term Finance, a fixed-rate lending protocol. Term has raised over 7mm led by Electric Capital. Their token just recently went live and is trading on top exchanges like Kraken

* Ryan: https://x.com/RyanRodenbaugh

* Wallfacer: https://x.com/wallfacerlabs

* Vaults.fyi: https://x.com/vaultsfyi

* Dion Chu: https://x.com/dionchu

* Term Labs: https://x.com/term_labs

Timestamps:

* 00:09 - Introduction to Dion Chu and Term Finance

* 00:28 - What Term Finance does and what makes it unique in the lending space

* 01:04 - The auction mechanism and insights that led to Term Finance's approach

* 06:04 - How treasury auction mechanisms were adapted for DeFi

* 09:02 - Potential for collusion in auction markets 10:29 - Supply and demand dynamics in Term Finance's market

* 13:02 - Approaches to cultivating more lending capital

* 15:03 - Impact of low variable rates across DeFi on Term's rates

* 18:18 - Overview of Term's product suite (auctions, blue sheets, meta vaults)

* 21:43 - Collateral preferences and makeup from borrowers

* 23:26 - Cross-chain expansion and differences between Ethereum and Avalanche

* 27:14 - Selling points for institutional capital and family offices

* 28:56 - Security benefits of Term's architecture

* 31:18 - Token launch learnings and advice for other founders

* 36:24 - Next innovations and improvements planned for Term

* 37:31 - Original vision of success and how goals have evolved

Today’s guest is Nik Kunkel, the founder and CEO of Chronicle Labs. Nik is a long-time contributor to MakerDAO and an early builder in the oracle space.

* Nik: https://x.com/nomos_paradox

* Chronicle: https://x.com/ChronicleLabs

* Ryan: https://twitter.com/RyanRodenbaugh

* Wallfacer: https://x.com/wallfacerlabs

* vaults.fyi: https://twitter.com/vaultsfyi

Timestamps:

* 00:00 Introduction to Nik Kunkel and Chronicle Labs

* 00:19 Nik's journey from IBM Hyperledger to MakerDAO

* 03:27 Joining MakerDAO and the origins of SAI

* 04:57 Early challenges with stablecoins and off-ramping

* 06:54 The early days at MakerDAO and infrastructure challenges

* 10:06 Introduction to Chronicle Labs and its origins

* 14:32 Oracle scalability challenges and solutions

* 17:05 Validator roles and the importance of identity

* 20:44 How validators collect and report data across protocols

* 21:58 How apps and chains choose Oracle providers

* 27:24 Metrics for comparing Oracle providers

* 30:24 Understanding Oracle business models

* 37:03 Different pricing approaches for Oracle services

* 40:33 Chronicle's focus on real-world assets (RWAs)

* 46:21 Fungible vs. non-fungible RWAs and growth potential

* 51:11 Chronicle's role in the Spark Grand Prix and Verified Asset Oracle

* 55:32 Future evolution of the Oracle space

* 58:37 The Chronicle points program and staking

Today’s guest is Sam MacPherson, co-founder and CEO of Phoenix Labs, the core contributors to the Spark Protocol. Sam is also a long-time contributor to Sky, previously known as MakerDAO

• Sam: https://x.com/hexonaut
• Spark: https://x.com/sparkdotfi
• Ryan: https://twitter.com/RyanRodenbaugh
• Wallfacer: https://x.com/wallfacerlabs
• vaults.fyi: https://twitter.com/vaultsfyi

Timestamps: 

• 00:00: Introduction and Sam's Journey to MakerDAO
• 03:05: Idealism vs. Practicality in Protocol Evolution
• 09:10: The SubDAO Model and Spark's Genesis
• 15:30: The Role of Spark in the Sky Ecosystem
• 18:50: Spark Liquidity Layer Innovation
• 24:10: The Banking Analogy and Value Distribution
• 29:10: The Stablecoin Landscape and Tether's Dominance
• 34:19: Cross-Chain Expansion and Bridge Infrastructure
• 36:40: Competitive Dynamics in DeFi
• 39:40: RWA Integration and the Grand Prix
• 45:40: Spark's Future and Value Capture
• 49:50: Closing Remarks and Ways to Follow

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How are stablecoins reshaping the financial stack?

Ryan chats with Luca Prosperi about reimagining the financial stack from first principles, why separation between money creation and distribution matters, and how M^0's enables both DeFi protocols and fintech apps to build better products.

Follow our guests: 

• https://x.com/LucaProsperi
• https://x.com/m0foundation

And try out Wallfacer’s latest release: https://app.vaults.fyi

Follow our host: 

• https://twitter.com/RyanRodenbaugh
• https://warpcast.com/ryanrodenbaugh.eth

Timestamps

• 00:00 - Luca's crypto red pill
• 03:03 - The philosophy of money
• 07:21 - Understanding modern banking
• 12:14 - Reflections on working with MakerDAO
• 17:24 - The current state of RWAs
• 21:52 - The belief behind M^0
• 30:28 - $M's role as wholesale money
• 38:04 - How M^0 manages collateral
• 41:40 - Composability and $M
• 44:47 - M^0's pitch for GTM success
• 47:37 - The economics of stablecoin issuers
• 53:58 - M^0's two token governance model
• 58:32 - The economics of M^0
• 1:00:52 - Levelling up crypto monetary infrastructure
• 1:04:27 - Closing predictions on DeFi