The two-term governor of Kentucky is a Democrat – and he runs a state Trump won by 30 points last year. He’s got plenty to say about what’s holding Democrats back and where they go from here. His most direct advice? “Talk normal.” And he doesn’t shy away from standing up for things he believes in even when they’re unpopular in his deep red state. As one of the most popular governors in the country, it's a pretty safe bet he’ll join the field of Democrats running for president in 2028. Before that, Jen and Democratic strategist Lis Smith talk about how Democrats can win on the immigration debate, becoming a party that stands for more than being anti-Trump, and the gerontocracy fights back via Cincinnati Bengal Joe Flacco.

Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening to this and other podcasts.

Editors’ Note: In this episode, Jen Psaki and Lis Smith discuss the NYC Mayoral race. We want to note that previously in her career, Lis Smith worked for and advised former Governor Andrew Cuomo who is currently running for mayor.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.