The world is changing faster than any organization can keep up with. The question isn't whether to adapt — it's whether you have a framework for it, or whether you're just reacting until you burn out.

Chuck Bomar is back for part two. This time we go deep on the framework behind his new book Pivot Now — what's actually happening culturally and socially that's leaving leaders disoriented, why the old models for understanding how people relate to faith and identity no longer hold, and what leaders in churches and businesses need to do differently before they inadvertently strangle their own mission trying to protect their methods.

We also talk about why your team shuts down when you ideate out loud, the difference between ideas and vision, why clarity beats hustle every time, and what it actually looks like to lead people through complexity without adding to their anxiety. This episode is for any leader who's felt the ground shifting and isn't sure whether to hold on tighter or let go.

What We Learned

• We can't keep up with the pace of change, but we can become change-ready — and those are completely different postures
• Algorithmic curation has created a decoupled, fragmented society where identity, beliefs, practices, and affiliations no longer hold together the way they used to — and that person is walking through your doors every day
• When you conflate truth with method, you risk choking your mission trying to protect your model
• Clarity is greater than hustle — leaders who can't clearly articulate the why behind a change shouldn't say anything yet
• Ideating around too many people is one of the most common and costly leadership mistakes — people treat your brainstorm like it's vision
• Tying any change announcement to mission first is one of the most disarming and effective leadership moves available to you
• Participation does not equal transformation — and finishing a process doesn't either
• The tighter you hold on to your methods, the more at risk your mission becomes

Resources Mentioned

• Pivot Now: Mastering Change for the Sake of Our Mission by Chuck Bomar — The book behind this entire conversation. A framework for understanding what's happening culturally, how to lead your organization through change without losing the mission, and why staying the same might be the biggest threat you face.
• Death by Lightning — Netflix miniseries Tim mentions he's been watching, based on the life and assassination of President James Garfield.
• Destiny of the Republic by Candice Millard — The book the Netflix series is based on. Tim is currently reading it. The story of James Garfield's rise from poverty to the presidency and the dramatic events that followed.
• Fire Within by Fr. Thomas Dubay — Chuck's current read. A deep dive into the prayer lives of St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, and what their commitment to personal connection with God looks like for any Christian.
• Convoy of Hope — Humanitarian organization mentioned in passing from Chuck's Part 1 story. One of the largest disaster relief organizations in the world.

Produced by Sound of a Rose — https://soundofarose.com

PODCAST DESCRIPTION

Most business owners say they're building a company. Chuck Bomar says he's building people and using a company to do it. That one shift changes everything — who you hire, why you stay up at night, and what success actually looks like when you close your eyes.

Chuck is a pastor, entrepreneur, author, and former President and CEO of Barna Group. He's bought and operated over a dozen companies across delivery, transportation, commercial mechanics, and in-home care. He's also had a partner commit fraud and land in prison. He's sold companies back to the people who ran them for what he originally paid — not what they'd grown to be worth. And now he's written a book that brings all of it together.

We talk about what it looks like to run a business from a faith framework that isn't just a label, why economic mobility is the fastest path to social mobility, and how Chuck went from living rooms full of disoriented pastors to a book that finally gave language to what they were all feeling.

What We Learned

• Building a business around people instead of using people to build a business is a completely different operating system — and it shows in retention, loyalty, and culture
• Caring for the whole person at work isn't a charity project; it's a strategy that creates the kind of trust most companies spend years trying to manufacture
• Selling a company back to the person who grew it — at your original purchase price — is one of the most tangible ways to break a cycle of generational poverty
• When your faith is decoupled from your business model, you don't sleep as well. Integration creates a settling that performance alone can't
• There's a weariness in church leaders that sleep doesn't fix — and it's not a strategy problem, it's a language problem. Most of them don't have words for what they're sensing
• The best ideas don't start as books. Chuck's started as a stick of dynamite dropped in living rooms full of pastors — and a guilt trip that made him write it down

Resources Mentioned

• Pivot Now: Mastering Change for the Sake of Our Mission by Chuck Bomar — Chuck's new book giving pastors and ministry leaders language for the cultural shift happening around them and a framework for leading their organizations through change without compromising the mission.
• Convoy of Hope — The humanitarian organization Chuck partnered with to bring his framework on church change to pastors across the country. One of the largest disaster relief organizations in the world, with a facility capable of producing a billion meals a year.

Produced by Sound of a Rose — https://soundofarose.com

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What if the problem isn't what you're saying, but why you're saying it?

In part two of this conversation, host Tim Meisenheimer picks up right where things left off with Jason VanRuler, therapist, coach, and author. This time they go deep into Jason's new book, Discovering Your Communication Type, built around five distinct styles: Peacemaker, Advocate, Thinker, Harbor, and Spark. Jason breaks down each type, helps Tim figure out his own on air, and gets into how understanding these styles can completely change the way you lead, love, and resolve conflict.

They also talk about why teams full of conflict-averse people struggle to make hard decisions, why the same words land completely differently depending on who's hearing them, and why being a student of the people around you might be the most underrated leadership skill there is.

If you've ever walked away from a conversation feeling completely misunderstood, this one will help you figure out why.

What You'll Learn

1. The five communication types (PATHS) and how to identify your primary and secondary style.
2. Why you default to your type under pressure and how that creates conflict in relationships you care about.
3. How to apply this framework to your team and why employee turnover is often a communication mismatch problem.
4. The difference between speaking someone's language and manipulating them and why intention is everything.
5. How Enneagram types map to communication styles and what that reveals about the wounds behind the way we talk.
6. Three things that change every relationship — listen to what people say, understand why it matters, and honor it.

Chapters

00:00 The Intent Behind Communication 02:56 Discovering Communication Types 05:50 Understanding the Five Communication Styles 08:47 Navigating Communication Under Pressure 12:08 The Role of Intention in Communication 14:52 Applying Communication Types in Leadership 17:49 Building Effective Team Communication 21:08 The Impact of Background on Communication 24:01 Healthy Relationships and Communication 26:52 Practical Tips for Conflict Conversations 30:12 The Joy of Making and Creating

Resources Mentioned

1. Discovering Your Communication Type by Jason VanRuler — The book at the center of this conversation. Five communication styles, why you default to yours under pressure, and how to use that knowledge to strengthen every relationship in your life. Releases April 14, 2026.
2. The Enneagram — Referenced by Jason as a companion framework to understanding communication types and the deeper "why" behind how people show up.
3. CliftonStrengths (StrengthsFinder) — Mentioned as part of the team training framework Tim's team has worked through alongside Myers-Briggs and the Enneagram.
4. Five Daughters Bakery — Nashville's legendary cronut shop, name-dropped by Jason as his go-to donut destination when he's in the city.

What if the thing holding you back isn't a lack of answers, but a lack of permission?

In this conversation, host Tim Meisenheimer sits down with Jason VanRuler, therapist, coach, and author, to talk about what it actually looks like to work with leaders under pressure. Jason's path to this work started with a 3.98 GPA, a rejection from a private practice internship, and an unexpected stint working inside a prison system. What he found there changed everything.

They talk about the hidden cost of always being the one who gives, why self-awareness can feel like a burden before it becomes a gift, and why leaders who claim to need nothing are actually the hardest people to love. If you're at an inflection point, whether that's a career shift, a business transition, or a relationship that's running on fumes, this one's for you.

What You'll Learn

1. Why your outer world can't fix your inner world and the belief most high performers were handed as kids that keeps them stuck.
2. How to find clarity in a season of transition by starting with the rules you were taught about how the world works.
3. Why leaders who "don't need anything" stall out and what measured vulnerability actually looks like on a team.
4. The permission problem and why most people already know what to do.
5. What Jason learned in prison about how people change when no one around them cares if they do.
6. Why being hard to love is a leadership problem not just a personal one. CHAPTERS 00:00 The Importance of Needs in Leadership 02:50 Jason Van Ruler: A Journey to Therapy and Coaching 06:12 Working with Leaders Under Pressure 09:01 Understanding the Curated Self 11:59 The Challenge of Self-Awareness 15:09 Vulnerability and Generosity in Leadership 17:59 Navigating Career Transitions

   Resources Mentioned

   1. Discovering Your Communication Type by Jason VanRuler — Jason's new book releasing April 14, 2026, built around five communication styles (PATHS) and why understanding them transforms your relationships and leadership.
   2. The Four Loves by C.S. Lewis — The book Jason references when he talks about the risk of letting people in. Lewis writes that to love at all is to be vulnerable, and that the only alternative is a kind of slow, self-made isolation.

If your child's future job doesn't even exist yet, what should school be preparing them for?

In this continuation of the conversation with Dr. Tom Stoner, the focus shifts from what classical education is to why it matters for the future. As technology accelerates and entire industries rise and fall — from programming to AI — the question becomes urgent: Is education about training for specific careers, or forming the kind of person who can adapt, think, and discern in any career?

Tom explains why classical education is not vocational training, but formation. Rather than chasing trends, it develops transferable skills — reading widely, thinking deeply, writing clearly, and synthesizing complex ideas. These abilities prepare students not just for their first job, but for a lifetime of change.

The conversation also wrestles with truth in an age of AI and "your truth vs. my truth," exploring why discernment matters more than information and why education must form judgment, not just deliver content.

What We Learned

• Why preparing for jobs that don't yet exist requires deeper formation

• The difference between vocational training and transferable skills

• How liberal arts education builds long-term adaptability

• Why STEM alone cannot future-proof a child

• The impact of AI on the workforce and why discernment is essential

• What it means for truth to correspond to reality

• How moral and spiritual formation shape intellectual development

• Why education must give students something solid to "push against"

• How classical education cultivates thinking, not just information absorption

Resources Mentioned

• • Repairing the Ruins

  • Plato's Republic

  • C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

  • The Idea of a Christian School 00:00 Preparing for Unknown Futures 02:51 The Role of Classical Education 05:46 Truth and Education 09:05 The Importance of Shared Morality 11:58 Personal Reflections and Gratitude

Is modern education feeding students intellectual junk food — or cultivating a taste for what lasts?

Dr. Tom Stoner joins the conversation to unpack what classical education actually is, why it's growing rapidly across the country, and what shifted in American schooling over the past 75–100 years. From the influence of the Enlightenment to the rise of progressive education, Tom explains how the model changed — and why many families are reconsidering what education is really for.

The discussion explores the difference between shallow coverage and deep engagement, why classic literature has endured for centuries, and how students develop intellectual appetite by wrestling with meaningful ideas. Together, they examine what it means to "read widely, think deeply, and write well," and why cultivating discernment and truth matters more than simply delivering information.

This episode challenges parents and grandparents to consider a deeper question: What kind of formation will actually help a child flourish — not just academically, but intellectually, morally, and spiritually?

What We Learned

• Why classical education dominated for centuries before the progressive shift

• How Enlightenment thinking reshaped American schooling

• The difference between going deep on fewer ideas vs. covering many topics superficially

• Why classic literature stands the test of time

• How intellectual appetite is cultivated — not assumed

• The importance of grammar, spelling, and clear writing in a digital age

• Why asking better questions develops deeper thinkers

• The role of wrestling with ideas in authentic learning

• How Christian education integrates worldview, morality, and meaning

• Why transferable skills matter more than training for rapidly changing careers

Resources Mentioned

• Repairing the Ruins

• Plato's Republic

• C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

• The Idea of a Christian School 00:00 The Appetite for Quality Literature 01:47 Understanding Classical Education 07:58 The Shift from Traditional to Progressive Education 12:42 The Importance of Classic Literature 17:13 Deep Learning in Classical Education 21:29 Integrating Faith and Learning 27:24 Flourishing Through Education

Welcome back to the second half of this powerful conversation with pastor and author Steve Carter. In this episode, Steve and host Tim Meisenheimer pivot from the pain of transition to the surprising power of generosity and the "weird, mysterious, but lovely" way that grief and hope can coexist. Steve challenges the cultural definition of hope—once viewed by the Romans as a "mental illness"—and reclaims it as a certainty anchored in the resurrection.

The conversation then moves to a masterclass on generosity, backed by both scripture and science. Steve breaks down the "happiness trifecta"—how giving releases dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin while pushing away the stress hormone cortisol . They discuss why generous people live longer, the often-overlooked "Fourth T" of stewardship, and how a simple act of buying a donut can shift the spiritual atmosphere of a room. If you want to know why it is truly "more blessed to give than to receive," this episode provides the data and the soul to back it up.

What We Learned

Grieving with Hope: Based on 1 Thessalonians 4:13, we don't grieve like the rest of the world; we grieve with hope, allowing pain and expectation to exist in the same space.

Hope is Not Wishful Thinking: While we often use "hope" to mean uncertainty (e.g., hoping for no traffic), biblical hope is the confident expectation that if the tomb is empty, anything is possible.

The Happiness Trifecta: Generosity isn't just a moral good; it's a biological hack. Consistent giving releases dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin, effectively fighting off the body's stress response.

The Volunteer Advantage: Studies from Stanford show that people who are generous with their time live, on average, four years longer than those who aren't.

The 4th "T" of Generosity: Beyond Time, Talent, and Treasure, we are called to be generous with our Testimony—sharing the story of what God has done in our lives.

Generosity vs. Control: You are either building the "musculature" of generosity or the prison of control. Generosity leads to freedom and lightness, while control leads to stress and suspicion.

Generosity of Spirit: A story about a broken credit card machine at a donut shop illustrates how small acts of kindness can diffuse anger and "shift the atmosphere" for everyone present.

Resources Mentioned

Herman Miller / Mike Volkema

Ace Hardware / John Venhuizen

CDW / Tom Richards

Chapters

00:00 – Introduction & The "Harder Right"

02:46 – Why Rome Thought Hope Was a "Mental Illness"

04:00 – Biblical Hope: Certainty vs. Optimism

07:00 – The Science of Generosity: The Happiness Trifecta

10:20 – Why Volunteers Live Longer

11:36 – The 4th T: Generosity of Testimony

13:14 – Generosity vs. The Idol of Control

15:58 – Leaders Who Model Generosity (Herman Miller, Ace, CDW)

19:05 – The Spunky Dunkers Story: Generosity of Spirit

22:30 – What Steve & Tim Are Loving Right Now

A leadership calling can unravel faster than anyone expects.

Tim Meisenheimer sits down with Steve Carter, bestselling author and former lead teaching pastor at Willow Creek, to talk about integrity, grief, and what it means to choose the right path when the cost is public, painful, and personal.

Steve shares the story of preparing to step into one of the most visible church leadership roles in the country—only to watch it dissolve as scandal surfaced around his mentor and organization. In the middle of uncertainty, pressure, and loss, Steve was forced to confront a defining question: Would he choose what was easier, or what was right?

Anchored by the West Point Cadet Prayer's line "help us to choose the harder right," the conversation explores how values like integrity, humility, wisdom, and discernment become essential guides when fear clouds decision-making. Steve also opens up about grief—why you can't achieve your way out of it, why silence matters, and how seasons of waiting often become the soil where transformation takes root.

This conversation is for leaders, parents, and high-capacity people navigating loss, transition, or disappointment—and looking for a way forward that doesn't cost them their soul.

What We Learned

• Why choosing the right thing is often hardest when identity and security are at stake

• How values act as filters when fear and pressure distort decision-making

• Why integrity is formed long before it's publicly tested

• Why grief cannot be solved through productivity or achievement

• How unprocessed grief quietly turns into resentment

• The importance of honoring grief rather than rushing past it

• How the framework of Good Friday, Silent Saturday, and Easter Sunday shapes a healthy theology of loss and hope

• Why waiting is not wasted time, even when answers don't come quickly

• How children and families learn courage by watching adults choose integrity

• What surrender looks like when the future remains unclear

Resources Mentioned

• Grieve, Breathe, Receive — Steve Carter A book on grief, loss, and learning how to receive life again after disappointment.

• The Thing Beneath the Thing — Steve Carter Exploring the deeper drivers beneath behavior, leadership, and decision-making.

• The West Point Cadet Prayer Referenced for the line: "Help us to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong."

00:00 Introduction to Wealth Beyond Riches

01:02 Steve's Journey: From Dream Job to Crisis

02:58 Lessons from Career Transitions

04:59 The Harder Right: Integrity and Legacy

13:36 Guiding Values: Curiosity and Humility

20:07 Developing and Assessing Resources

22:02 Learning to Grieve

27:53 The Power of Surrender

31:23 Preparing for Transitions

In Part 2 of this conversation, Tim Meisenheimer and Justin Whitmel Earley shift from habits and formation into the deeply human realities of business, leadership, generosity, and trust.

Justin pulls back the curtain on what really happens when people buy, sell, or transition businesses — and why the hardest parts are rarely technical. Drawing from his work as a business attorney and firm owner, Justin explains why the best outcomes come from building the right team early: trusted advisors, honest friends, and spiritual mentors who can help carry the emotional and ethical weight of major decisions.

The conversation moves from contracts to character, from delegation to humility, and from financial planning to generosity. Justin shares how his parents modeled generosity through time and presence, how his wife Lauren shaped the way their family thinks about giving, and why intentional rhythms — from delegation to morning coffee — can become anchors of joy and gratitude in a demanding life.

This episode is a reminder that wealth, work, and leadership are never just about money — they are about people, limits, trust, and the kind of life you are quietly building every day.

What We Learned

1. Selling a business is deeply emotional — preparation isn't just financial, it's relational and spiritual.

2. The best business owners build teams early — including a great accountant, wealth advisor, attorney, trusted friend, and spiritual mentor.

3. Legal structures are meant to preserve trust — contracts exist to steward relationships, not replace them.

4. You can either control everything or grow — healthy growth requires delegation and surrender.

5. Good habits and good leadership share the same foundation — admitting your limits and asking for help.

6. Generosity is most often modeled, not announced — especially through time, presence, and attention.

7. Giving requires intentional planning — thoughtful generosity often needs as much strategy as saving or investing.

8. Joy is found in embodiment — daily rituals like movement, rest, writing by hand, or making coffee can reawaken gratitude.

9. Healthy ambition has guardrails — growth should never come at the cost of people, integrity, or family.

10. Life is formed through practices — small, repeated actions shape who we become far more than intentions.

Resources Mentioned

1. The Body Teaches the Soul — Justin Whitmel Earley A book on embodied habits and spiritual formation. https://a.co/d/g0Gwszb

2. The Common Rule — Justin Whitmel Earley A practical framework for daily and weekly rhythms. https://a.co/d/cUo0gKH

3. Habits of the Household — Justin Whitmel Earley Applying habit formation to family and parenting. https://a.co/d/7WEib8c

4. Made for People — Justin Whitmel Earley Rebuilding friendship and community in adulthood. https://a.co/d/iZvLQ0N

5. Analog Weekly Planner (Ink + Volt) Referenced as a tool for reflection and intentional planning. http://www.inkandvolt.com

6. AeroPress Coffee Maker Mentioned as part of Justin's morning ritual and embodied joy. http://www.aeropress.com

7. Sparrow Coffee (Chicago) Coffee brand referenced during the conversation. http://www.sparrowcoffee.com

00:00 The Human Side of Corporate Law 01:27 Building a Business Team 06:43 The Emotional Journey of Selling a Business 10:18 Fostering Trust in Transactions 12:07 The Challenge of Team Building 18:15 Growth with Integrity 19:44 The Impact of Generosity 26:15 Finding Joy in Simple Pleasures

In this episode of Wealth Beyond Riches, Tim Meisenheimer sits down with Justin Whitmel Earley—business lawyer, author, former missionary, and habit-builder—to explore why lasting change doesn't start with willpower or ideas, but with practices.

Justin shares how an intense season of anxiety and burnout early in his legal career forced him to confront a painful disconnect between what he believed and how he was actually living. Though his theology and values were strong, his habits—sleep, work pace, phone use, rest, and embodiment—were quietly shaping him into someone he didn't want to become.

Together, Tim and Justin unpack why modern life trains us toward busyness, isolation, and disintegration, and why recovery doesn't come from "thinking harder" but from rebuilding small, faithful rhythms. From keystone habits and embodied spirituality to friendship, movement, and reflection, this conversation offers a hopeful path for anyone who feels stretched between success and sanity.

What We Learned

1. You don't notice habits—but they notice you Habits operate beneath awareness, quietly shaping who we become over time.

2. You can't think your way out of a life you practiced your way into Change happens at the level of daily rhythms, not intentions alone.

3. Habits form the bridge between belief and experience When habits and values are misaligned, anxiety and fragmentation often follow.

4. Keystone habits create outsized impact Small practices—like exercise, reflection, or honest friendship—can reshape sleep, health, finances, and emotional life.

5. The body teaches the soul Physical habits (sleep, movement, rest) are not separate from spiritual formation—they are central to it.

6. Culture trains us more than we realize Busyness, phone-checking, and constant productivity are learned norms, not neutral behaviors.

7. Community accelerates change Even one trusted relationship marked by honesty can radically improve emotional and spiritual health.

8. Reflection is a leadership discipline Reading, journaling, prayer, and engaging "old wisdom" create clarity in a distracted world.

Resources Mentioned

1. The Body Teaches the Soul Justin's newest book exploring the connection between physical habits and spiritual formation. https://a.co/d/g0Gwszb

2. The Common Rule A practical framework for building daily and weekly habits that foster stability and depth. https://a.co/d/cUo0gKH

3. Habits of the Household Applying habit formation to family life, parenting, and the home. https://a.co/d/7WEib8c

4. Made for People A guide to rebuilding friendship and community in adulthood. https://a.co/d/iZvLQ0N

5. Keystone Habits (Behavioral Science Concept) Small practices that trigger widespread positive change (e.g., exercise, reflection, relational honesty).

6. Vizio Divina / Lectio Divina Ancient Christian practices of reflecting prayerfully on visual art or Scripture as a way of shaping attention and desire.

00:00 Choosing the Harder Right 03:07 Navigating Career Transitions 06:03 The Importance of Values 08:53 Integrity and Trust 12:12 Grief and Its Role in Transition 15:06 Curiosity and Humility in Leadership 18:00 Adjusting Expectations 20:51 The Process of Grieving 23:49 The Holy Weekend Metaphor 26:47 Experiencing God's Goodness 30:10 Strength in Surrender 33:01 The Journey of Transition