Joel Bardall and Todd Von Joel talks about what 2025 has been like for many in the trade. Gary Burton joins the show to give his thoughts and a bit of an overview on what he thinks is in demand and where he's seen demand drop off in the market. Heather Isherwood returns after sharing her breast cancer story about six months ago. Heather gives an update on her recovery, talks about getting into spraying and shares the plan for next year when she needs another surgery to aide in her treatment. Joel and Todd also wrap up the year for them and share some final thoughts on the trade and life in 2025.