What Am I Making Podcast

Kevin Kinney has been singing for himself for more than forty years now. You are welcome to sit and listen, but Kevin will still be singing songs, even if no one else is there to hear them. Kinney first formed Drivin’ & Cryin in the mid-1980s, on a foundation of jangle, grit, and honest storytelling. Kevin describes the band as a “quasi political self help garage rock band.”

Growing up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Kinney fell hard for rock and roll at an early age. As a teenager he co-founded a local music zine called The Shepherd Express, and began playing in various bands around town. By the time high school had ended, Kinney was looking for options outside of the confines of Milwaukee, and made his way down to Atlanta where he would eventually start Drivin’ & Cryin’.

After more than four decades as the head of Drivin’ & Cryin’, Kevin Kinney is just now learning to get better at being himself. He no longer feels the need to prove his worth to others in the industry, saying, “I am not fucking auditioning anymore. I am presenting.”

This newfound confidence has been borne out in the form of Drivin’ & Cryin’s terrific new record, Crushing Flowers. During our conversation, Kevin and I chat about his long career, including many of the big names with whom he has collaborated. We cover his Wisconsin childhood, the evolution of his songwriting, and Kevin even shares the beautiful story of the song on the new album about his mother’s battle with Alzheimer’s.

In addition to a tremendously thoughtful and fulsome discussion, Kevin even shares a brand new song that he wrote for a veteran’s group to help prevent suicide amongst military vets. There is a whole bunch packed into this one.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Kevin for joining me. You can find out all about his work at https://www.drivinncryin.com/

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

Kerry Alexander takes full advantage of being out on the road as a touring musician. Despite nearly fifteen years touring in her band, Bad Bad Hats, Alexander is still always on the lookout for the next grand adventure, or seeking out a meal worth remembering. Alexander and her bandmates see touring not just as an opportunity to see America, but as a chance to genuinely experience this country and all that it has to offer.

Although she was born in the Twin Cities, Kerry Alexander spent the bulk of her formative years in the south, splitting time between Alabama and Florida. By the age of 13, Alexander had begun teaching herself guitar, an endeavor which quickly led to writing her own songs. Kerry returned to the Minneapolis/St. Paul region to attend school at McAllister College.

While at McAllister, Alexander began sharing her songs on MySpace, leading to her to meet Chris Hoge, a fellow sophomore also sharing his original songs. Almost immediately, the pair began collaborating musically, and struck up a romantic relationship. Alexander and Hoge, now married, still remain the creative center of Bad Bad Hats.

During our conversation, Kerry and I covered her early forays into music and songwriting, including that first MySpace encounter with Chris. We discussed the ways to find joy and excitement while touring the roads of America, including how Bad Bad Hats make the most of their tour rider funds to sample the best cuisine that each city has to offer. We also discussed the intimate glory of house concerts, the wages of online self-promotion, and we even looked at how Alexander runs her band just like a business.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Kerry for joining me. You can find out all about Kerry and her work at https://www.badbadhats.com/ and you can snag her terrific records wherever you get your music.

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

As Laura Veirs set out to make her new album, Temple Songs, she committed to the idea of making a record with no masters. She chose not to use a producer and opted to play and record all of the instruments in her home studio, The Temple Of Bloom. Unsure if she had the chops or the technical acumen to pull off a full record of songs completely by herself, Veirs pieced Temple Songs together one take at a time, using a set of guidelines that would help to keep her work focused and grounded. The result is a resplendent album of gorgeous folk tunes that play as much like a family photo album as they do songs on a record.

Veirs was powered to take this bold artistic leap after a difficult divorce and an unexpected love affair that led to her second marriage. There was even a time when Veirs saw herself never getting married again, but life has a way of surprising us. Day to day life at the Veirs household is a somewhat chaotic affair with a quartet of teenagers living with Laura and her husband.

With a new record in the can and ready to roll, Laura Veirs is about to hit the road for several weeks of touring across the UK and the US throughout the summer and fall of this year. Laura and I discussed the realities of the road in 2026 as costs for gas, food and lodging all continue to creep northward. We also talk about the beauty of the simple house concert, and we cover some of the harsh truths of living on the road for long stretches of time.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,

Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Laura for joining me. You can find out all about Laura and her work at https://www.lauraveirs.com/ and you can snag her terrific records wherever you get your music.

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

Wayne White knew he had an artistic gift at a very early age. By the time he was in first grade, White had begun making drawings of The Beatles and selling them to kids for a portion of their lunch money. At six years old, Wayne White had made his first dollar in the art world, and in many ways he never looked back.

While Wayne was certainly blessed with innate talent, growing up in rural Tennessee meant there were no outlets for a creative kid. Wayne tried his best to play the role of athlete, largely to impress his father who was also a coach, but his athletic prowess was mediocre at best. Eventually, by middle school, White began engaging fully in his artistic inclinations, making a path for Middle Tennessee State University as soon as he had finished high school. The University offered little more than a basic arts program, but for Wayne it was the first time he had been around a group of people who were also motivated and energized by visual art.

After finishing his degree and then working in the Nashville advertising scene for a year, White set off for New York City to try and make a name for himself. For more than three years, White worked day jobs while scratching out creative work on the side. He helped to make ends meet by performing underground puppet shows at events and parties. Eventually, this work dovetailed perfectly with a new kids show that was in production for CBS. Wayne White would go on to be a key member of Pee Wee’s Playhouse, building puppets, set pieces, and other ephemera for the entirety of the show’s run.

In addition to his puppetry and his work on Pee Wee, Wayne White has become legendary for his thrift store word paintings, where he takes a second hand painting and adds hand lettering, often with satirical or snarky messaging to create a whole new piece of art. White initially thought that these paintings were nothing more than a lark, until he staged a show at a local cafe, which in turn led to a proper gallery showing, and eventually a full show and a massive retrospective book called Maybe Now I’ll Get The Respect I So Richly Deserve, which was done in collaboration with the designer Todd Oldham.

With a cache of incredible visual work in his catalog, Wayne White was even the subject of the 2012 documentary, Beauty Is Embarrassing, a lovely portrait that is a combination of White’s personal and artistic journey as well as his artistic philosophy and workflow. During our conversation, Wayne and I cover the allure of used things and we dive into the beauty of junk. Wayne shares his battle with overthinking things, and he even shares some advice on listening to the process when doing creative work.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,

Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Wayne for joining me. You can find out all about Wayne and his work at https://www.waynewhiteart.com/

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

Andrew Sa grew up under the spectre of country music. Growing up in Fremont, California, some of Sa’s most intense childhood memories revolve around the family crammed into his father’s F150 pickup listening to Top 40 country radio allowing him to soak up the likes of Reba McEntire and Dolly Parton. Sa’s grandparents kept a collection of cassette tapes at their home, and Andrew always found himself gravitating to the saddest songs in the Patsy Cline collection. Something haunting, yet alluring lay within the grooves of those records, and Sa was fascinated to find out the truth about it.

As an adult, Sa followed the path of love to find himself in Chicago where he set about taking classes at the famed Old Town School of Folk Music. In Chicago, Sa began to invest himself deeply into the art of songwriting. He also found himself developing an intense bond and friendship with country singer and songwriter, Patrick Haggerty, a trailblazer in the world of queer country. Haggerty’s early 70’s LP Lavender Country served as a major influence for Sa, who was also shaped immensely by Haggerty’s experiences and advice.

Andrew Sa’s debut record, American Rough was issued in late June on Bloodshot Records. That album is a culmination of years and years of work and rework. Sa was deliberate in the release of his album, taking a full year to shop it around and find the perfect home for its release. The record itself is a gorgeous, seemingly timeless affair that recalls notes of Roy Orbison, KD Lang, and The Everly Brothers.

During our conversation, Sa and I talked about the immense impact his collaborators have had on the album. We talk at length about the contributions of the album’s producer H.C. McEntire who helped to shape Sa’s songs into a cohesive sonic piece. There is also talk of the queer country scene in Chicago, including Sa’s own Lavender Prairie Fest that he has spearheaded for the last several years.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,

Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Andrew for joining me. You can find his new album, American Rough wherever you get your music. 

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

Johanna Samuels’ terrific new album, Sorry, Kid was anything but a straightforward endeavor. After recording and then scrapping eight songs, Samuels considered walking away entirely. Filled with frustration and uncertainty, Johanna attended a New Year’s Eve singalong at the home of producer Jonathan Rado and his wife Jackie. Between piano renditions of Ben Kweller tunes, the idea of recording together surfaced organically. Samuels already had the songs. Rado, who has produced albums for Weyes Blood, The Killers, and Father John Misty had the right instincts to build a sonic world around them.

Sorry, Kid culls from twenty years’ worth of Samuels’ songwriting life. While the album includes brand new material, it also features reworked tunes that had germinated as early as 2007. With Rado at the controls, and with contributions from pals like Madison Cunningham, Courtney Marie Andrews, and Tyler Ballgame, Sorry, Kid stands as a testament to the glory of making records with your best friends.

During our conversation, Johanna shares details of her life growing up in a Hollywood family, and we unpack some of the connections she has to her Jewish past. Johanna talks about how she learned to give herself permission to follow in the steps of heroes like Tom Petty, Bob Dylan, and Leonard Cohen, gradually learning that dudes were not the only ones that could write a great song. We also cover the incredible cache of talented women currently working in the worlds of alt-country and folk music, many of whom Johanna counts as friends.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,

Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Johanna for joining me. Her new album Sorry, Kid is available on August 14 wherever you get your music. 

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

John Darnielle never set out to be an indie rock icon. Long before his band, The Mountain Goats were a household name in indie rock circles, Darnielle was an unlicensed nurse working in various psychiatric wards in his home state of California. While working full time, Darnielle also pursued a bachelor’s degree at Pitzer College. Throughout his studies and nursing work, Darnielle also managed to carve out time to write and record his own songs, ultimately attracting the attention of Shrimper Records which led to the release of Darnielle’s first collection of songs, a cassette tape released called Taboo IV:The Homecoming.

Over the next ten years, Darnielle found a way to balance his nursing duties with occasional touring stints and time for recording. He managed to find time for all of these disparate pursuits until 2003 when it became clear that music was paying much better than nursing. Since committing himself to music full time, Darnielle has seen a surge in admiration and audiences alike. His band have amassed an enormous, and impressive catalog that includes 24 studio albums, including the forthcoming LP Days which arrives on August 7.

In addition to his prolific work in The Mountain Goats, Darnielle has turned to the written word as a major form of self-expression. His authordom began in 2008 with a fictional story centered around the Black Sabbath album, Master Of Reality. In the intervening years, Darnielle has gone on to pen a trio of novels, one of which was nominated for a prestigious Edgar Award.

During our fascinating conversation, Darnielle unpacks his early life, which was dominated by an abusive step-father, and paints a vivid picture of his life as a nurse before rock and roll came calling full time. We explore the road that Darnielle’s spirituality has taken, including his return to the traditions and teachings of the Catholic Church. This is a riveting conversation with one of the brightest creative minds in the country.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,

Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to John for joining me. You can find out The Mountain Goats work wherever you get your music, and be sure to pick up a copy of John’s books at your favorite local bookseller.

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

Thomm Jutz did not make his way to Nashville along the usual path. Growing up in the Black Forest of West Germany, an eleven year old Thomm saw American country star Bobby Bare on TV and instantly began a lifelong love affair with country and American roots music. Jutz gradually mastered the guitar and even began to pen his own songs, always dreaming of a move to America.

In 2003, Jutz entered and won a lottery for a Green Card, which allowed him to work and live in the United States. He and his wife were able to move to Nashville, and would eventually become naturalized US citizens by 2008. During his 20 plus years in the States, Jutz has worked regularly as a sideman, touring the country with artists like Nancy Griffith, Mary Gauthier, and Kim Richey, as well as playing on myriad recording sessions. Jutz has also become one of Nashville’s most trusted sonic collaborators as he has produced albums by Nanci Griffith, Bill Anderson, Todd Snider, and Mac Wiseman.

While the sideman and production gigs were bringing in steady work, Jutz longed to focus on his own songs. In 2023, he released Nothing But Green Willow: The Songs of Mary Sands and Jane Gentry, and has since followed it up with 2026’s Ring-A-Bellin’, an album and companion book that apply Jungian psychology and alchemical stages to the songwriting process.

In addition to all of his writing, recording, and production work, Jutz is also a professor of songwriting at Nashville’s Belmont University. During our discussion, we talk about the changing state of the music industry and the ways that these cultural and economic shifts are affecting Thomm’s young songwriting students. We also explore the crucial importance of musical history, learning to listen deeply, and the idea of giving yourself permission to be an artist.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,

Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Thomm for joining me. You can find out all about his work at https://www.thommjutz.com/

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

Kyle Thomas is a musical lifer. Best known to audiences under the moniker King Tuff, Thomas first heard the siren call of rock and roll as a young child when he was given his first record player. That simple gift was a sort of rosetta stone moment for Kyle that led to an existence fueled by the power of rock and roll.

Growing up in Brattleboro, Vermont, Thomas began playing in bands at a very early age, immersing himself in the world of hardcore. By the time he had reached the end of high school, Kyle was exploring American underground bands like The Modern Lovers, and soaking up The Smiths. Soon, he began working under the moniker King Tuff and began his own record label, MUP in 2005.

For the last two decades King Tuff has churned out some of the most exciting and interesting records in the world of indie rock. Refusing to be pinned down with a narrow genre definition, Thomas continues to draw his own connections between seemingly disparate sonic worlds as he easily meshes elements of folk, power pop, southern rock, and even metal into his work.

During our conversation, Kyle shares some of the evolution behind his sound, including the ways he has seen his songwriting change and mature. We cover some of the massive changes in the music industry since Kyle first started some 20 years ago, as we dive deep into the rising costs of touring. Kyle also shares why most venues suck, and he reminds us all of the importance of the album cover, even in the age of spotify.

Kyle Thomas has not only built an impressive legacy of recorded work, he is also an incredibly affable dude that I found to be a delight. He is, in short, a great hang. So come join me and King Tuff as we talk Vermont, psych-folk, musical Yodas and so much more.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,

Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Kyle for joining me. You can find King Tuff’s work wherever you get your music. Please buy local whenever you’re able.

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking

Dorothy Parker was one of America’s greatest wits, and one of its finest writers. Born into privilege, Parker lived a life of contrasts. Her scathing wit and razor sharp humor made her famous, but that quick tongue shielded a low self-esteem. At the height of her powers, Parker found herself the de facto leader of the famous Algonquin Round Table, a weekly collection of intellectuals and writers at the center of Manhattan’s cultural elite. Yet she often looked down upon the Round Table, seeing it as little more than tawdry entertainment.

Film historian, and author Dr. Gail Crowther’s new book, Dorothy Parker In Hollywood charts the path of Parker’s journey west in search of work and a new life in the Los Angeles sunshine. The book takes a deep look at Parker’s strained familial relationships, and wrestles with the author’s destructive relationship with alcohol. Crowther also paints an excellent portrait of Parker’s personal life that was largely fueled by the affection and assistance of her husband, Alan Campbell.

Activism was a central part of Parker’s entire adult life, working with left-wing causes to fight against fascism in Spain and then in Italy and Germany. Parker also devoted much of her life to the struggle for civil rights in America, and even bequeathed her estate to Martin Luther King, Jr. after her death. In fact, her dedication to various progressive causes was so intense that she was surveilled by the FBI for years and was even blacklisted for a time. Whether she was fighting fascism, battling bigotry, or trading barbs at the Round Table, Dorothy Parker always punched up. Join me and Dr. Gail Crowther as we take a fulsome at Dorthty Parker in Hollywood and beyond.

Let’s get into it.

Cheers,

Matty C

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End Credits

Thanks so much to Gail for joining me. You can find her new book, Dorothy Parker In Hollywood wherever you get your books.

The What Am I Making podcast is hosted, written, and produced by me, Matty C.

Our theme music was written and recorded by David J. Baldwin.

You can subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts. Please be sure to like, rate and review the show if you enjoy it.

Our work is solely sponsored by listeners and readers like you. Please lend your support today with a paid subscription at whatamimaking.substack.com/. Now is a crucial time for new paid subscribers. Please step up and support the show.

You can email the show anytime at [email protected]. You can also leave us a voicemail with your questions or concerns at speakpipe.com/whatamimaking