Today's episode is a little different. NPR's David Folkenflik sits down with two writers – Walter Isaacson and Michael Lewis – to ask about their experiences writing biographies of Elon Musk and Sam Bankman-Fried, respectively, and what it means to watch the person you're profiling become a villain in the public eye in real time. They discuss the process of getting close – or keeping their distance – from their sources for Elon Musk and Going Infinite, and confront the criticisms of how they do or don't address the wrongdoings of Musk and Bankman-Fried in their books.

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