What We Don't Know Podcast

What We Don't Know Podcast

By Boxlight Creative StudioBusinessEducationSelf-ImprovementManagement
Download on the App Store

What We Don't Know Podcast episodes

  • Ex John Lewis Boss: Why The Best Leaders Are Impossible to Read | Sharon White

    Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem.


    The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world.


    Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation.


    Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️

    ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io

    https://www.boxlight.io/


    ------

    This week, Hayaatun is joined by Jimmy McLoughlin OBE, host of ⁨@jimmysjobs⁩ , to welcome Baroness Sharon White.


    Sharon White traces her journey from a working-class East London childhood — daughter of Windrush generation parents who left school at 11 and 14 — through 26 years as one of Whitehall's most senior but deliberately invisible civil servants, to leading OFCOM and later the John Lewis Partnership through COVID and financial turbulence.


    She shares why being impossible to read became a strategic asset, how the insider/outsider experience of growing up as a minority shaped her willingness to hold unpopular positions, and why she believes the problems facing political leaders today are categorically harder than a generation ago.


    She reflects on what it takes to lead 80,000 partners through a democratic business structure unlike anything in the private sector, why a reluctant regulator is a better regulator, and how to tell the difference between noise and what's actually real when everything feels urgent.


    She also discusses building crisis-ready teams before the crisis hits, the leadership skill she thinks nobody talks about enough — and what her teenage son taught her about inclusion.


    Timestamps:


    00:00 Intro

    01:38 Introducing Sharon White

    03:56 What To Expect Today

    04:30 Backstage At Number 10

    06:53 Politics In The Social Media Age

    08:36 Childhood And Immigrant Roots

    13:43 Finding Her Voice

    20:02 Purpose Across Career Switches

    29:03 Earning Trust In New Worlds

    32:50 Becoming Public Facing

    36:40 Reluctant Regulator Mindset

    40:28 Partnership Democracy Model

    41:12 Customer Love and Stakeholders

    43:20 Employee Ownership Pride

    45:25 Resilience and Gratitude Mindset

    47:30 Growth Needs Brave Leadership

    51:12 Leading Through Constant Crises

    53:07 Parenthood and Inclusion Lessons

    56:18 Bravery and De Klerk Story

    59:05 Quickfire Leadership Questions

    01:01:33 Hosts Reflect on Key Takeaways

    01:07:33 Duolingo Taxi Hiring Test

    01:11:54 Meta AI Leader Avatars Debate

    01:14:12 Wrap Up and Stay Connected


    Credits:

    Producer: Sunny Winter

    Producer: Thuy Dong

    Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1 hr 16 min
  • Mandela’s Secret Weapon: How Empathy Can Topple a Dictator

    From Apartheid to Ubuntu: Paul’s Journey with Mandela, Tutu & the Truth Commission

    Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem.

    The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world.
    Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation.
    Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️
    ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io
    https://www.boxlight.io/
    ------

    Paul recounts growing up white in apartheid South Africa with parents who opposed the regime, joining the anti-apartheid student movement, working on death penalty cases for a young black lawyer who was assassinated, and helping victims’ families build Kule Manni.

    At 26 he helped develop the Truth and Reconciliation Commission law and became its executive secretary under Archbishop Tutu, sharing leadership lessons about preserving opponents’ dignity and Mandela’s openness to hearing testimony about ANC abuses.

    He discusses empathy and Ubuntu as foundations for resilient societies, the role of information ecosystems and economic breakdown in modern polarization, and ways to embed Ubuntu in organizational culture.

    He describes the personal toll of trauma, later scaling transitional justice support globally by offering comparative experience rather than prescriptions, and founding London’s Conduit to convene coalitions tackling complex challenges like UK flooding.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1 hr 8 min
  • The Imposter Feeling Every Leader Faces (And How to Beat It) | Natasha Frangos

    Positive Leadership in a Chaotic World: Natasha Frangos on Culture, Growth, and Leading a Partnership

    Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem.
    The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world.
    Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation.
    Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️
    ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io
    https://www.boxlight.io/
    ------
    Recorded at the Anthropy Conference at the Eden Project in Cornwall, Hayaatun interviews Natasha Frangos, managing partner of accountancy firm Haysmac, about leading with energy, authenticity, and optimism amid industry headwinds.
    Natasha shares how her Greek Cypriot upbringing, resilient grandmother, and accountant father shaped her leadership and view of trusted advisory relationships. She traces her path from leading the firm’s Creative Media & Tech sector to a firm-wide corporate role during COVID, then being elected as the firm’s first female managing partner in its first contested election.
    We cover partnership leadership and governance, culture as a driver of growth, developing and retaining homegrown talent, mentoring outside the sector, AI and automation strategy, competing as a mid-tier firm, staying independent amid PE consolidation, and sustaining energy through family, yoga, and theatre.
    00:00 First Female Managing Partner
    00:33 Rainforest Podcast Setup
    02:27 Natasha Role Overview
    03:47 Family Roots and Resilience
    08:18 Ambition and Peer Support
    09:45 Ant Trail Interlude
    10:14 First Leadership Sector Focus
    12:22 Founder Lessons and Investors
    15:29 COVID Board Leadership
    18:03 Chief Herder of Cats
    19:47 Election and Imposter Feelings
    23:03 Mentors and Outside Perspective
    24:37 Growth Is Never Done
    25:43 Creating Shared Momentum
    27:31 People Over Numbers
    29:24 Defining Culture In Practice
    31:49 AI Anxiety And Upskilling
    34:51 Mid Size Edge And Partnerships
    37:22 Staying Energized As Leader
    39:03 Role Model Pressure And Legacy
    41:53 Big Priorities For The Year
    44:25 Quickfire Leadership Round
    47:50 Consolidation And Career Loyalty
    51:25 West London And Final Takeaways
    53:59 Closing Reflections And Wrap
    Credits:
    Producer: Sunny Winter
    Producer: Thuy Dong
    Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    58 min
  • Why Great Leaders Stop Trying To Be Busy

    Time Management for Leaders: The 4Ds, Being Present, and Making Busy Work Matter

    Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem.
    The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world.
    Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation.
    Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️
    ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io
    https://www.boxlight.io/
    Hayaatun and Matt explore why leaders obsess over time and how choices, not sheer scarcity, shape outcomes. They discuss practical tools for overload, including Hayaatun’s “4Ds” (delegate, delay, drop, do), getting worries out of your head and into reliable systems (quadrant to-do lists, calendars, colored pens), and tackling the scariest task first to reduce stress.
    Hayaatun shares formative lessons from the high-pressure pace of the House of Commons and the value of trusted teamwork, while Matt reflects on preparing for leadership “set pieces,” using low-meeting days, processing time (commutes), and block time for deep work. They cover signals leaders send through calendars, the importance of hiring and tough conversations, meeting waste, and why sleep matters despite occasional crunches.
    00:00 Zombie Consultants Intro
    00:33 Time Choices Question
    01:32 Meet The Hosts
    02:09 Leader Time Signals
    04:30 Four Ds Framework
    06:10 Drop And Do
    08:30 Quadrant List System
    12:07 House Of Commons Pace
    16:40 Fast Drafting Lesson
    20:02 Prepared CEO Style
    22:54 Safety Valves And Fridays
    24:47 Calendar As Choices
    27:02 Sauna Politician Aside
    27:49 PhD Roots Of Time
    29:01 Overwhelm And Fear
    29:41 Do Scary Thing First
    30:52 PhD Stress Triggers
    32:20 Emotions As Data
    34:19 Peak Hours Block Time
    35:23 Travel Energy Management
    37:42 Busy Leader Signals
    40:48 What Leaders Cant Delegate
    43:53 Chunk Time Strategy
    46:16 Calendar And Team Alignment
    51:15 Time Audits And Meetings
    53:56 Sleep And Crunch Times
    56:36 Key Takeaways On Time Management
    Credits:
    Producer: Sunny Winter
    Producer: Thuy Dong
    Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE
    Post Producer: Ben Alexander Kippen

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1 hr
  • Former WPP Boss on Return to Office Backlash and Doing the Right Thing

    Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem.

    The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world.
    Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation.
    Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️
    ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io
    https://www.boxlight.io/
    Mark Read on Leading WPP Through Chaos: Succession, Return-to-Office, AI & Creative Culture
    In this episode of What We Don’t Know, hosts Hayaatun and Matt interview Mark Read, who recently stepped down as CEO of WPP, about the realities of leading a 100,000-person global public company serving major clients like Google, Coca-Cola, Unilever, and Ford.
    Mark discusses moving from head-office “pigeon” roles to running a business, following a founder with a very different style, and why succession planning enables promotion. He shares CEO disciplines like fast responsiveness, balancing urgent vs important work, and communicating at scale during COVID. He explains his controversial return-to-office policy, handling a large employee petition, and learning to engage better.
    Mark also argues AI will transform work but won’t replace human judgment and creativity, illustrating with a “Fitbit on a chicken” campaign, and reflects on early-tenure decision-making, career risk-taking, and his next chapter.
    00:00 Beachside Leadership Hook
    00:45 Meet Mark Read
    02:29 CEO Scope and Pressure
    05:12 Early Career Origins
    08:47 Learning by Doing
    12:51 From Pigeon to Operator
    15:54 Stepping Up to CEO
    19:30 Taking the WPP Helm
    22:39 Succeeding the Founder
    26:03 Inbox Discipline and Introverts
    29:08 Leading Your Own Way
    30:18 Interviewing Visionaries
    31:05 Elon Musk Takeaways
    31:54 Showing Up as CEO
    35:07 Return to Office Debate
    39:25 Data Behind Attendance
    40:06 Optimism in AI Era
    41:52 Fit Chick Creativity Story
    43:38 Building Creative Culture
    46:49 Leadership Lessons Ahead
    49:18 Next Chapter Plans
    51:38 Quickfire Round Finale
    53:42 Hosts Reflect and Wrap
    Credits:
    Producer: Sunny Winter
    Producer: Thuy Dong
    Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE
    Post Producer: Ben Alexander Kippen

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    58 min
  • Who Is Matt Brittin? | What We Don't Know

    Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem.

    The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world.
    Across the series, episodes are hosted by Matt and Hayaatun as well as a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation.
    Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️
    ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io
    https://www.boxlight.io/
    Today we meet our co-host, Matt Brittin!
    After 18 years at Google - including a decade running Europe, the Middle East and Africa — Matt Brittin has stepped away from one of the most powerful roles in global tech.
    In this first episode of What We Don’t Know, hosts Hayaatun Sillem and Matt turn the lens inward - unpacking what happens when high-performance leadership stops, and what comes next.
    Matt opens up about his “midlife gap year,” life after intensity, and learning to be present again following the loss of his father. From a disruptive childhood to rowing for Great Britain — and a very public defeat in the Cambridge Boat Race — he reflects on the moments that shaped how he builds teams and leads under pressure.
    They also go deep on what really drove Google’s success: hiring at scale, building diverse teams, setting ruthless clarity of priorities, and the simple principle - put the best people on the most important problems, then get out of the way.
    Plus: navigating public scrutiny on tax, YouTube extremism, and what leadership looks like when you have to say “we got this wrong” — and fix it.
    This is a conversation about leadership after the job title — and why the most important lessons often come from what we don’t know.
    Chapters:
    00:00 Intro
    00:33 What We Don’t Know
    02:14 Meet Matt Today
    02:40 Midlife Gap Year
    04:52 Family Time and AI
    07:29 What He Misses
    09:02 Pottery and Reset
    10:28 Growing Up Britain
    12:05 Bored at School
    13:22 Rowing Changes Everything
    15:13 Teamwork Lessons
    19:02 Failure and Turnaround
    23:52 From Sport to Business
    27:32 Why Google Won
    28:57 Day One at Google
    30:38 Scaling and Hiring
    33:21 Culture of Help
    33:59 Hiring for Scale
    35:07 Fixing Hiring Bias
    37:04 Becoming Public Spokesperson
    39:44 Stories Backed by Data
    41:17 Crisis Comms on YouTube
    45:14 Select Committees Pressure
    46:54 Leadership Lessons Learned
    48:37 Big Tech Backlash
    51:06 Next Chapter Purpose
    52:39 Resilience and Energy
    55:09 Why This Podcast
    01:01:57 Making Podcasts Work
    01:06:55 Rapid Fire Wrap
    01:11:32 Closing and Thanks
    Follow Matt and Hayaatun below 👇
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayaatun/
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-brittin-cbe-5aa6391/
    Credits:
    Producer: Sunny Winter
    Producer: Thuy Dong
    Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE
    Post Producer: Ben Alexander Kippen

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    1 hr 14 min
  • Trailer: What We Don't Know

    In a world that feels increasingly chaotic and uncertain, what does leadership really look like - and what do even the most experienced leaders still not know?

    Hosted by Dr Hayaatun Sillem CBE and Matt Brittin, What We Don’t Know explores the realities of leadership today. Having both recently stepped down from major roles, they reflect on their own experiences while speaking with extraordinary guests from business, politics, technology and beyond.

    Together, they unpack the moments that shape leaders: crises, difficult decisions, unexpected lessons, and the questions that don’t always have easy answers.

    From negotiating with world leaders to navigating corporate chaos (and even finding lessons in nature), this podcast explores the human side of leadership - what works, what doesn’t, and what we’re all still figuring out.

    Follow the show and join the conversation as we explore the biggest question of all: what don’t we know about leadership yet?

    Credits

    Production Company: Boxlight Creative Studio

    Hosts: Matt Brittin CBE and Dr Hayaatun Sillem CBE
    Executive Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE
    Lead Producer: Sunny Winter
    Junior Producer: Thuy Dong
    Editor: Ben Alexander Kippen
    Guest Booker & Operations: Vicki Gostling

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

    3 min

About What We Don't Know Podcast

From the publisher's feed

In a crazy world, how do we get better leaders?