What's the value?

Josh is a podcaster and blogger (https://www.savingelephantsblog.com/) who has a strong belief in the tradition of conservatism in America. He believes being virtuous is the most important thing we can do and his conservative philosophy suggests, more often than not, the most virtuous thing we can do is not try to drive radical change. There are times for that, but most often we'd be better to trust in the natural course of things and the way they've worked in the past.

We approached this discussion in a very intellectual way, trying to understand the logic, function, and value of conservatism. Rather than debate specific political or societal issues (although we touched on a few) we debated the underlying rationale of this approach. Perhaps the most fundamental question in this debate was if we (humans) have an obligation to try to do better than "nature" or our history? Is it virtuous to try to find a better way, even if it means cracking some eggs or is the right thing to do to exercise prudence and temperance?

More info on Josh below-

Podcasting and blogging extensively about the historical intellectual tradition of conservatism in America, including the roots of modern conservative thought from Edmund Burke to the development of the movement conservatism in the United States via the work of individuals such as the American Founding Fathers, Russell Kirk, William F. Buckley, Frank Meyer, Leo Strauss, Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell and more contemporary thinkers such as Sir Roger Scruton, Ross Douthat, Jonah Goldberg, and Yuval Levin.

My guest, Daniel, refers to himself as a recovering racist. As he puts it, "I acknowledge that I have held racist beliefs in the past, but I am committed to unlearning them and becoming an anti-racist. I strive to constantly examine my thoughts and actions for any signs of prejudice and take steps to address them."

There are a ton of interesting aspects of this to explore. What makes someone racist, how does unconscious racism work, how do we become "anti-racist", etc.? Beyond those obvious questions though, there are also the more philosophical questions about human nature. Are humans just inherently selfish and racism is just a form of that selfishness? If so, do we really believe we can ever eliminate it?

We even asked the question of why this topic is so important to Daniel? There are so many ugly things in this world, why has he chosen racism as such an important focus? Is it just a form of virtue signaling or is it genuine? So many questions and such an important and interesting topic. Big thanks to Daniel for being on, for sharing his perspective, and for the work he is doing.

My guest, Lauren, feels very strongly that kids need to be able to explore, be curious, be creative, and think more like entrepreneurs. She also feels very strongly that our current school system is not allowing kids these opportunities and that is a big problem. This isn't a new sentiment, but it was really interesting to explore this issue and why Lauren felt so strongly about it. She is really thoughtful and rational in her thinking, so we uncovered some good questions and insights as we worked through the topic.

As we progressed it became apparent that part of Lauren's belief is centered around the idea of humans getting back to their nature. She thinks we rely too much on technology and we are so focused on structure, rules, and compliance that we've lost what makes us human. At one point Lauren actually acknowledged that she thought our generation (80's kids) was really special and unique. Maybe we were at the exact sweet spot of leveraging technology to improve society, but still having enough of our fundamental human nature in tact? Or maybe we are just biased by what we learned to be "normal" or "natural" as kids and assume that any deviation from that is a problem?

That is why we have these conversations, to try to answer those types of questions. A big thanks to Lauren for being on and exploring this topic with me.

Here is a more complete bio for Lauren below:

Lauren Goldstein is the founder and CEO of the business consulting firm, Golden Key Partnership. Her clients lovingly nicknamed her “The Biz Doctor” because her superpower is helping 7-figure service-based entrepreneurs uncover what is keeping them stuck in the trenches of their business. Lauren is an expert at helping business owners diagnose the real root cause of their team and operational challenges so their business can sustainably and profitably scale without burning out. She’s been featured in Thrive Global, Huff Post, and Authority Magazine and is a trusted expert to Fortune 500 companies like Apple, Nike, and AT&T, among others.

For those interested, Lauren has also offered a free link to one of her business tools that can be found here- https://www.goldenkeypartnership.com/scorecard?utm_source=What’s the Value?Podcast &utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=interview&utm_id=podtour

Johnathan has been on the show once before, in season 1, but wanted to come back for season 2 to talk about his strongly held belief on the importance of getting a college degree. His view is that although there are plenty of reasons (many of them good reasons) to not go to college anymore, there are always pro and cons to everything; and the pros of getting a college degree outweigh the cons. Johnathan believes the transformative experience you go through will prepare you to thrive in life, no matter what you decide to do.

This is obviously a really debated topic today, so there was plenty for us to dig into. We tried to be as objective as possible in assessing some of the most common reasons people feel a college degree is no longer worth it anymore. We talked about the super high cost of attending, the greed of some of the institutions involved, and how practical/useful the things taught at universities actually are. We even tried to explore our own biases, as two college educated people with graduate degrees as well, we questioned if it is even possible for us to objectively evaluate this topic.

A more complete bio for Johnathan is below:

Johnathan Drayton is a Christian philosopher and an aspiring Lawyer. He Triple majored in college : Philosophy, History, and Political Science. He loves Jesus and enjoys unpacking the Word of God through several different lenses. He has his own biblical podcast called 'The truth of the matter is' with his brother and they believe Christians should always be ready to evaluating how we can use the Word of God to maneuver through life.  Johnathan believes that we live our lives on levels arrive in stages, and it happens in seasons. Therefore, we ought to pursue being like our Lord Jesus Christ every day while having a willingness to learn from others and hear what they have to say.

Mustafa has worked as an investment banker, a diplomat, and pharmacist, and now as an author and coach (https://thepassionmba.com/). He has intentionally chosen to change careers, or be a career shapeshifter, because he believes that is what life is about. As he said it, "we are not on this earth to pay bills and die." It only makes sense to push yourself to try different things and maximize the value you bring to the world.

Not only does Mustafa think it is better for the individual to approach life this way, but he thinks it is better for society. We've gotten too caught up in specialization and it is not our natural state as humans. We are meant to explore, be curious, and experience new things. I don't necessarily disagree with Mustafa's views, but they certainly brought up some interesting questions. If we are not meant to specialize, why does it seemed to have worked so well to advance society? It is an objective truth that everyone is meant to push themselves to have multiple careers in their life? And is the grind it takes to be a career shapeshifter actually worth it?

See below for a more complete bio for Mustafa-

Mustafa is the Founder and CEO of The Passion MBA, a global coaching company that helped hundreds of professionals around the world to find their dream career. Originally from Egypt, he has lived in dozens of countries across 5 continents from the US, the UK, Italy, China, UAE and many others. He's currently building an online platform that envisions helping professionals who are stuck in their career and need to reinvent themselves. He is also the author of “Time to Move On”, that wrote recently to help professionals to bust the common, yet hidden, career myths before they find their dream career. In the past, he's worked as an Investment Specialist at the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB), an Egyptian diplomat in China, Malawi and the United Nations in New York. Prior to that he worked as a pharmacist.

This was probably the most contentious conversation I've had since I've been doing this show. That is somewhat expected given the format change for season 2, but I would honestly love for you the listeners to decide where this conversation broke bad (if at all). I know people that speak in absolutes, use extreme language, and carry an air of certainty can be a trigger for me. Elaine hit on those triggers as she was trying to passionately make her case for why mental health experts should be treated as authorities who can help fix our social and political issues.

What I found super interesting about the discussion was that Elaine had some really insightful and important tools for helping people better understand themselves, their emotions, and their psychological make up; and at the same time I think her emotion, fear, and passion for the topic showcased how hard it can be to actually implement those tools. I tried to have a discussion about that, but either I didn't do a good job of carrying that conversation or Elaine did not want to be questioned in the way I was trying to question her (or maybe both). Either way I still think it was really interesting, even if somewhat combative at times. A big thanks to Elaine for being on and the work she is trying to do.

More detailed bio for Eliane below:

Elaine has been a clinical social worker for 30 years including the Army, which she joined at the age of 42. She's had her own practice for the last 12yrs, but has also worked in hospitals, outpatient clinics and combat zones.

"Changing minds takes more than information and reason. It takes insight, problem-solving and coping skills." She uses a lot of analogies, idioms and 3-step strategies (mantras) that are relatable and useful.

I was connected with Paul by a mutual friend and we actually had a conversation on another podcast prior to this one. This works out well sometimes, because it allows us to get deeper into the discussion since we already have a baseline understanding of each other. Paul brought "love God and love others" as his strongly held belief to discuss for the show.

What I knew about Paul from our prior conversation was that he would be super thoughtful about why he believed so strongly in this idea and he would also be super open to examining/challenging it to try to understand it better. We discussed why there are some Christians who would agree with his belief but don't follow it, why people are skeptical of Christianity, why so many Christians feel compelled to "stand up" for God, and if suffering is ever something that we should accept in the world.

See below for a brief bio on Paul-

Paul has been serving in inner-city ministries since 2005, with a focus on shepherding others as they seek to "love God and love others".  He currently serves with Youth With A Mission in Richmond, is President of New Visions Civic League, facilitates a Community Bible Study, and hosts the "Where did you see God?" Podcast.

Chet suffers from diabetes and has seen first hand the stigmas that come with this disease. He thinks it is due to a lack of awareness and knowledge, that so many people chastise people struggling with it (especially type 2 diabetes). His belief is that diabetes is unique in this way, where people are comfortable criticizing and judging people for not "being healthier" or "taking better care of themselves." So he is on a mission to try to change that perspective and remove those stigmas.

It was an interesting conversation to learn a bit more about diabetes and how the disease impacts people, both physically and mentally. Maybe even more so though, it was interesting to understand why these stigmas exist-- is there any rationale to them, is it just an unfortunate aspect of human nature, and is it realistic to expect people to raise their awareness on diseases or issues that don't directly impact them?

More complete bio for Chet below:

Chet was the co-founder and president of his own industrial supply company. He was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes in 1981 and has lived with the disease for over 40 years. Since retiring he has started the "Challenge Diabetes Program" where he looks to raise awareness and improve diabetes outcomes for patients through practical perspectives.

My guest, William, creates content and shares his views on self-improvement, social issues, pop culture, and many other topics (https://www.youtube.com/@talknscroll/videos). He came to the show with a strongly held belief around taking ownership/accountability of your outcomes in life. He discusses this often in his content, so we explored this belief and used the issue of sexism/the patriarchy to make it real.

Season 2 of the show is still about questioning, exploring, and seeking to understand different perspectives/beliefs. Through out this episode we tried to better understand the value of taking ownership, how difficult it can be to actually practice, and when, if ever, we are allowed to blame someone else for problems in the world? A big thanks to William for being on as the first guest of season 2 and be willing to question one of his strongly held beliefs in a productive way.

See a more complete bio for William below:

William is an up and coming public speaker, podcaster and content creator (Talk N Scroll). His content focuses primarily on self-improvement through the lens of social commentary and discussing topics around pop culture issues, relationships, sexism, finances, and a lot more. William is also an educator with over 10 years of experience in K-12, college and adult education; and he is a proud veteran of the United States Navy.