When the Flames Go Up

We’ve been off for two weeks, and what a two weeks they were! With the debate performance and SCOTUS’s immunity ruling, two of the guardrails against Project 2025 (and the useful idiot who will line his pockets escorting it into reality) took a hit. And suddenly it’s easier to feel that much more anxious about the America our now-voting-age children have to figure out.

We’re also learning that it’s possible for two presumably paradoxical things to be true: We can love our kids 3000 and still feel, as Jill Filipovic wrote, a little selfish for having them and subjecting them to the daunting struggles that we didn’t anticipate when we became parents.

This conversation is about our anxiety and the way we hope to make it as productive as possible. Anxiety is a bitch, but it can drive great things. In our case, the only plan is to stay active, stay informed, stay within ourselves, and do all we can to make sure anyone eligible to vote—especially people our kids’ age who might not be sure their votes matter—has an abiding motivation and a solid plan to do so.

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

We’re not all that concerned about who the Democratic nominee will be, because that’s beyond our control. We just need numbers to support the ideology, if not necessarily the person. We also talk about the weird feelings of “breeder’s remorse” (to be continued in the Facebook group), the power of ovaries of steel, and whether kombucha-wurst should be a thing.

Other links:

* John Oliver’s takedown of Project 2025

* From Kevin M. Kruse: Whatever you do, don’t not vote.

* Les Moonves: TFG is “great for business” …

* … and the considerable trouble he’s been in since.

* The rich will get richer if the 2017 tax cuts are extended

* 30 things President Biden has accomplished that you might have missed

After a sundry professional career as an academic, a mom blogger, a Disney executive, and an entrepreneur, Catherine Connors has entered what can only be described as her Holy Doodlebug! phase. That’s how her mom would react to extraordinary or unexpected things, and man, does that ever fit the moment.

In addition to her mom—who died on Mother’s Day 2023 right before her daughter’s high school graduation—she has also lost her house, her job, her sister, her cat, and her stepfather within a year of each other. As a result, she’s had to process overlapping waves of grief and live the essential paradox that although plans are necessary, many of them just don’t matter.

During this turbulent present, Catherine is assessing her past decisions as a parent (which feels a lot like trying to edit the script after the movie’s out) and pondering her future, which feels disorienting in its openness. But every emotional hurdle shows us we can do hard things and makes us better prepared for the next hard thing.

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

We also talk about TikTok feminism, why A.I. might just eat its own tail by reiterating post-modern gibberish, and why it’s important to pre-arrange communication channels into the afterlife.

Other links:

* Follow Her Bad Mother on Instagram and Threads

* Catherine’s startup, Maverick, and her company, Demeter Media

* This Be the Verse, by Philip Larkin

* By the time your child is 18, 90% of your time with them is over.

* Good Will Hunting: “So what do you really wanna do?”

* If, by Rudyard Kipling

* Jennifer Lee, chief creative officer of Walt Disney Animation Studios

* Simulacra and Simulation, by Jean Beaudrillard (and in The Matrix)

* The Baba Yaga zine

This week’s episode was inspired by the latest in a large library of think pieces about the emotional isolation of boys, who want more emotional intimacy but “have neither the skills nor the social permission to change the story.” No one really knows what masculinity is or should be, but there’s a whole spectrum of weird and conflicting advice out there trying to plead its case.

Now that our young adult sons are starting to define their ideas of masculinity on their own, we wonder how they’ve developed emotionally—especially amid cultural sensibilities a lot different from when they were born. Gender dynamics may be a little less toxic and patriarchical, but there’s still plenty of both to go around.

It isn’t like we have a lot of answers here. The best we can do is rely on our experiences with our sons and their friends, and distinguish them from the media machine that tends to fetishize problems. As always, the best defense is shared experience.

Thanks for reading When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to help us continue our writing and podcasting.

We also talk about mastering the Detroit public transit system, John Candy’s dramatic chops, and what if reality shows had more sabotage? Seriously, look at all those links below. We got all over the place:

* Steve! (martin): a documentary in two pieces on AppleTV+

* Read the end of Planes, Trains, and Automobiles (see p. 120)

* About the Universal Design for Learning

* Boys & Sex, by Peggy Orenstein

* Questlove needs to feel safe about making other people feel safe

* Just Walk on By: Black Men in Public Space, by Brent Staples

* 93% of the world’s largest incarcerated population is men and boys

* The Trouble with Boys, by Peg Tyre

* Masterminds and Wingmen, by Rosalind Wiseman

* The Pirates! Band of Misfits and Vengeance Most Fowl

* Clemson pitcher Drew Titsworth

* Not linking to anything about Andrew Tate because to hell with that guy.

The parenting life of Eliza Fendell and Jeff Oberg began in Miami-Dade County and has been an adventure from the start. The oldest required lifesaving surgery to remedy some birth defects. Their middle child is nonbinary, and their youngest has a specialized IEP for his learning challenges.

The parents had settled into their roles, working and learning and advocating for their kids whenever necessary. But when Florida began exacerbating its culture wars and alienating its health providers, they felt the only choice was to move everyone 1,500 miles and find a more secure and accommodating life in New England.

The sacrifices were considerable, but they’ve paid off amazingly well. Eliza and Jeff discuss the process and considerations that dictated where they’d go—including the care for Eliza’s father, whose Alzheimer’s became acute during COVID.

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

We also talk about feeling like a “political refugee” in your own country, how to completely unremember a Broadway show, and one of the more compelling reasons to like Ike.

Other links:

* When the Banter Stops: 6:12

* To accommodate blind LSAT takers, logic games are going away..

* Florida’s HB 1557 “Don’t Say Gay” law, and how subsequent lawsuits were settled

* “What we’ve got here is failure to communicate.”

* Michigan has codified LGBTQ protections into its civil rights law.

* Resources for transgender individuals at TransSOCIAL.org.

* Girl Scout Gold Awards

Initially, this episode was inspired by the stories of Scarlett Johannson and Riley Keough fighting back against brazen rip-off attempts. And it was fueled by the news that scammers hauled in a record $10 billion in 2023 and how this personal finance writer was somehow conned out of $50,000 in cash.

But it soon zoomed out into the bigger picture: the importance of individual boundaries in a chaotic world. So we ended up talking about teaching kids to defend themselves (or walk away), helping our parents get heard by healthcare providers, and avoiding scams that we think we're too smart to fall for.

We recalled some of the experiences we’ve had with our kids and parents. And since the best way to build boundaries (and fend off bad actors) is to find and share useful information, we’re starting a discussion thread in our Facebook group. That writer is still recovering from losing $50K, but fighting through the shame to tell her story will definitely help keep someone else from repeating her mistakes.

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

Also: we have very different opinions about the banter that opens many podcast episodes. Does it add value to your listening experience? Or is it just pointless fluff that tries your patience?

Other links:

* On HuffPo: How to fall in love with a silent stranger

* The website udm14.com provides an AI-free Google search

* Twenty-year-olds reported losing money more often, but adults 70 and over lost the most.

Shannon Reed will turn 50 this weekend, and that makes her think a lot about the types of books she couldn’t possibly have written until now. After a long career as a playwright and writing professor at the University of Pittsburgh, she’s broken onto the New York Times best-seller list with her second memoir, Why We Read: On Bookworms, Libraries, and Just One More Page Before Lights Out.

Among the book’s many relatable, charming essays about her all-consuming bibliophilia is a piece about her father’s passing in 2015. It might seem like an interesting tonal shift at first, but after nine years Shannon finally felt ready to share his story. And it was worth the wait.

As she veers into fiction for her third book, Shannon discusses some of the advice she offers her creative writing undergrads. And they’ve taught her many things in return, like how to rock those skinny jeans and treat her auditory disability as an identity rather than a burden.

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

Shannon’s memoir reminds us to treat our books as the relaxing hobby they’re supposed to be, luxuriate in our own pace and genre(s), and embrace our DNFs. We also talk about including your doctors in your Acknowledgements, teasing Game of Thrones fans, and who should play her whenever her work gets optioned.

Other links:

* Read Sharon’s work for McSweeney’s and The New Yorker

* When George Saunders (author of Lincoln in the Bardo and Tenth of December) wrote about her book on his Substack.

* Watch Lucky Hank, based on Richard Russo’s novel, Straight Man

* Michael Chabon’s first novel, The Mysteries of Pittsburgh

* Follow Jim Cantore on Instagram

We have limited data on this, but based on a sample size of one we can confirm that the second first anniversary is a lot more fun than the first. It turns out that—once you’ve set aside the burden of synthetic romance—it’s really great to relax and chat about how we manage to pilot our little boats through the riptides of middle age.

After 44 episodes, 36 guests, and one remarriage, we’ve also determined that our primary apprehensions fall into four basic buckets: our bodies, our parents, our kids, and our overall mental wellbeing. And if you’re lucky, two of those buckets aren’t leaking all over your hardwood flooring.

We’ve had some frank discussions about some really tough topics like estrangement, dementia, college, injury, and the Big Inevitable: grief. But sharing the collective experience has made us feel closer to our age cohort and more equipped to deal with whatever shock to the system is lurking around the corner.

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

We also delve into Doug’s debilitating trust issues, assert that ChatGPT wipes the floor with Google Translate, and urge America Ferrara to run for president.

Other links:

* Why writing by hand beats typing for thinking and learning

* Sofia Vergara’s adventures with English dialogue

* Age ranges for the demographic “generations”

* A recurring favorite: “Mr. Zero knew.”

* Jodie Ousley’s blog on Medium

* Hat tip to Ocean’s Twelve

We talk a lot on this show about the stresses of the Sandwich Generation, especially when a parent or child has a chronic condition that needs a lot of care. But what if you’re the primary breadwinner, your kids require a lot of medical attention, and you’ve got a debilitating chronic condition of your own?

After four years of treatment for Long COVID, Heather Petit knows a lot about that. And though she has every reason to wallow in despair and/or scowl at the heavens, she personifies the importance of being “a ‘what’s next?’ person” who has had a lot of practice advocating for herself in doctors’ offices. The key is to collect data about her symptoms and present it as straightforwardly as possible, as a journalist would.

It’s an odd thing to experiment on your own body as often as she has to, trying this pill and that diet to determine which ones generate the most energy and alleviate the most pain. But she does it because she’s genuinely interested, she’s lucky enough to have a lot of support, and the only alternative is to roll over and die (which, thanks to the example of her 89-year-old mother who invented Will Drills, ain’t gonna happen).

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

Heather goes deep about how lungs work and many of the symptoms she’s treated, and she shares a lot of resources that have kept her informed, focused, and optimistic. We also talk about what it’s like when you can’t yawn, the healthful properties of soft pretzels and margaritas, and why it took six months to change her name to her name.

Other links:

* Welcome to “the most cozy-feeling book of all time”

* How to spell dyspnea

* The multisystem impact of Long COVID

* What Long COVID investigators can learn from four decades of ME/CFS research

* The multidisciplinary management of long COVID (and its accompanying management table) 

* Munchausen Syndrome (otherwise known as factitious disorder)

* Join the Long COVID Choir for respiratory therapy 

* We’re all living the horror of The Fly, in one form or another

As fate would have it, this publication day happens to coincide with the 25-year anniversary of the day we got married. So we decided to devote an episode to get a little real and remember what we were really feeling while it all went down dooby-doo down down.

The episode’s cover art is an image on the front of a wedding album that Doug’s sister made for us, and it’s kind of eerily prophetic that all the wedding finery is laid out without any people in it. We’ve had a lot of time to think about why we did what we did, and airing it like this feels like the last in a series of “closure moments.”

Did we get together for a lot of embarrassingly wrong reasons? You betcha. Do we get a little snippy with each other? A little. But we also know how much we’ve tried to figure out how to cooperate for our boys, and it all started by realizing you can’t have a great relationship with your ex until they’re your ex.

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

We also talk about how it must feel to resurrect a romance several years after it ended, the macabre feeling of brewing stock with your old hip, and whether it’s ever a good idea to show your ex your avocados.

Other links:

* Baby Blues, a boy’s podcast, and a hairbrush

* Kali, the goddess of destruction (and lots of other things)

* Jim Carrey’s speech about pursuing what you love

* When Harry Met Sally …: Harry bumps into Helen Hillson … and Ira

* The Graduate: What happens after Ben and Elaine run off together?

* Stranger Than Fiction: “I’ve written papers on little did he know.”

* Four Weddings and A Funeral: “I never expected the Thunderbolt.”

* Roy Kent: “Don’t you dare settle for ‘fine’.”

* Edvard Munch’s “Love and Pain,” later referred to as “Vampire”

If there’s a common theme to the separate adventures we had over last weekend, it’s probably Attempts to Defy Cultural Reinforcement. Magda took our son to an Accepted Student event and met parents who wanted to know how promptly the school responds to phone calls. Because modern parents still feel compelled to fly our helicopters onto campuses and advocate for our kids in a chaotic world.

Meanwhile, Doug wondered if road-tripping to bourbon country with an “activity buddy” might elevate the rapport to a closer friendship. Because the prevailing wisdom is that a lot of men—especially middle-aged men—sidestep intimacy and therefore have a difficult time making new friends.

Amid the thunderstorms, car-accident traffic, and eggplant rollatini, the weekend offered up some valuable revelations. Doug’s new friend had a painful story to tell and knows the value of being able to tell it. Colleges build cafeterias that look like Hedwig might fly in any minute. And once you have your first egg salad sandwich with smoked mayo, you won’t go back.

Thanks for listening to When the Flames Go Up! We’re a listener-supported enterprise, so please consider a paid subscription to support our writing and podcasting.

We also talk about attending the Boston Marathon on Patriots’ Day, finding new subscribers in bars (Hi, Kelly!), and why refueling an EV requires a little foreplay.

Previous episodes referenced:

Other links:

* Behold the low-riding majesty of the Lucid Air EV.

* Jess was worth the wagon-wheel coffee table.

* Bardstown hosts the annual Kentucky Bourbon Festival.

* Why Gen Z is more open to talking about mental health

* “A towel is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have.”