College is often treated as the default path to success — but there are other successful paths that are underused. In this episode of Defending Ideas, Nic Dunn sits down with Zach Boren of Apprenticeships for America to explore how expanding work-based training can open new doors to upward mobility, especially for men and boys who are struggling to find solid footing in today’s economy. 

We dig into why apprenticeships remain one of the most effective yet underutilized tools for building skills, boosting earnings, and launching young people into good, meaningful careers. And we examine how policymakers can treat apprenticeships not as a niche alternative, but as a core strategy for strengthening the workforce and expanding access to the middle class. Together, Nic and Zach make the case that revitalizing the skilled trades and modern work-based learning isn’t just good workforce policy — it’s essential to restoring opportunity, purpose, and economic hope for a rising generation.

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.