With the China spying case continuing to generate headlines, mystery and yet more uncertainty surrounding the true reason for the DPP’s decision to drop charges against Chris Cash and Chris Berry under the Official Secrets Act 1911, and Double Jeopardy having been sent an anonymously leaked copy of his expert witness statement, Ken Macdonald KC and Tim Owen KC secure an exclusive interview with Professor Kerry Brown, the former UK diplomat, academic and China expert who was due to be a defence witness on behalf of Chris Berry had the case gone to trial.
Ken and Tim discuss with Prof Brown a number of the issues he was due to cover at the trial – the recent history of UK/China relations; the networks in Britain engaged with China; the structure of decision-making in China; whether Chris Berry could conceivably have met the second most powerful man in China, Cai Qi, as the Security Services had “assessed”, in the course of his alleged spying activities; analysis of the likely security and intelligence value of the information passed between Cash, Berry and the alleged Chinese State Security agent “Alex”; and, finally, the concept of China as an “enemy” State.
Bearing in mind the force, clarity and weight which was bound to be attached to Prof Brown’s defence report, Ken and Tim suggest that the timing of the service of his report and the DPP’s decision to drop the case appears to be more than a coincidence. Was service of the Brown report on 29th August 2025 the trigger for the meeting convened on 1st September (Chaired by National Security Adviser Jonathan Powell and attended by 20 senior mandarins and spy chiefs as well as Doug Wilson, director-general of the attorney general’s office) where the general theme was how the UK’s relationship with China was going to be damaged by the case and where the main “action point”, according to Caroline Wheeler’s well briefed article in the Times, was for the AG’s office to relay these concerns to the DPP? The duo conclude by agreeing that unless and until the written advice given to the DPP by prosecuting counsel, Tom Little KC, as to why the case was dropped is published following a waiver of privilege by the Attorney General, the mystery surrounding this case will continue.
-----------
Covering the critical intersections of politics and law in the UK with expert commentary on high-profile legal cases, political controversies, prisons and sentencing, human rights law, current political events and the shifting landscape of justice and democracy. With in-depth discussions and influential guests, Double Jeopardy is the podcast that uncovers the forces shaping Britain’s legal and political future.
Double Jeopardy is presented by Ken Macdonald KC, former Director of Public Prosecutions, and Tim Owen KC, as they break down the legal and political issues in Britain. From high-profile legal cases to the evolving state of British democracy, Double Jeopardy offers expert legal commentary on the most pressing topics in UK law, politics, and human rights.
Ken Macdonald KC served as Director of Public Prosecutions from 2003-2008, shaping modern prosecutorial policy and advocating for the rule of law. He is a former Warden of Wadham College, Oxford, a crossbench member of the House of Lords, and a leading writer, commentator and broadcaster on politics and the rule of law.
Tim Owen KC has been involved in many of the most significant public, criminal and human rights law cases over the past four decades. Both bring unparalleled experience from the frontline of Britain's legal and political landscape.
If you like The Rest Is Politics, Talking Politics, Law Pod UK and Today in Focus, you’ll love Double Jeopardy.
View all episodes
By Ken Macdonald KC and Tim Owen KC
3.5
22 ratings
With the China spying case continuing to generate headlines, mystery and yet more uncertainty surrounding the true reason for the DPP’s decision to drop charges against Chris Cash and Chris Berry under the Official Secrets Act 1911, and Double Jeopardy having been sent an anonymously leaked copy of his expert witness statement, Ken Macdonald KC and Tim Owen KC secure an exclusive interview with Professor Kerry Brown, the former UK diplomat, academic and China expert who was due to be a defence witness on behalf of Chris Berry had the case gone to trial.
Ken and Tim discuss with Prof Brown a number of the issues he was due to cover at the trial – the recent history of UK/China relations; the networks in Britain engaged with China; the structure of decision-making in China; whether Chris Berry could conceivably have met the second most powerful man in China, Cai Qi, as the Security Services had “assessed”, in the course of his alleged spying activities; analysis of the likely security and intelligence value of the information passed between Cash, Berry and the alleged Chinese State Security agent “Alex”; and, finally, the concept of China as an “enemy” State.
Bearing in mind the force, clarity and weight which was bound to be attached to Prof Brown’s defence report, Ken and Tim suggest that the timing of the service of his report and the DPP’s decision to drop the case appears to be more than a coincidence. Was service of the Brown report on 29th August 2025 the trigger for the meeting convened on 1st September (Chaired by National Security Adviser Jonathan Powell and attended by 20 senior mandarins and spy chiefs as well as Doug Wilson, director-general of the attorney general’s office) where the general theme was how the UK’s relationship with China was going to be damaged by the case and where the main “action point”, according to Caroline Wheeler’s well briefed article in the Times, was for the AG’s office to relay these concerns to the DPP? The duo conclude by agreeing that unless and until the written advice given to the DPP by prosecuting counsel, Tom Little KC, as to why the case was dropped is published following a waiver of privilege by the Attorney General, the mystery surrounding this case will continue.
-----------
Covering the critical intersections of politics and law in the UK with expert commentary on high-profile legal cases, political controversies, prisons and sentencing, human rights law, current political events and the shifting landscape of justice and democracy. With in-depth discussions and influential guests, Double Jeopardy is the podcast that uncovers the forces shaping Britain’s legal and political future.
Double Jeopardy is presented by Ken Macdonald KC, former Director of Public Prosecutions, and Tim Owen KC, as they break down the legal and political issues in Britain. From high-profile legal cases to the evolving state of British democracy, Double Jeopardy offers expert legal commentary on the most pressing topics in UK law, politics, and human rights.
Ken Macdonald KC served as Director of Public Prosecutions from 2003-2008, shaping modern prosecutorial policy and advocating for the rule of law. He is a former Warden of Wadham College, Oxford, a crossbench member of the House of Lords, and a leading writer, commentator and broadcaster on politics and the rule of law.
Tim Owen KC has been involved in many of the most significant public, criminal and human rights law cases over the past four decades. Both bring unparalleled experience from the frontline of Britain's legal and political landscape.
If you like The Rest Is Politics, Talking Politics, Law Pod UK and Today in Focus, you’ll love Double Jeopardy.
39 Listeners
346 Listeners
68 Listeners
653 Listeners
18 Listeners
159 Listeners
268 Listeners
3,091 Listeners
71 Listeners
1,046 Listeners
153 Listeners
4 Listeners
100 Listeners
35 Listeners
35 Listeners