In this episode Liz and Caroline speak to Danny Bogado, the director of a new Channel 4 documentary called Conviction: The Lucy Letby Case. They discuss why he wanted to make a film on the case, how he recruited contributors and why he feels it is important that audiences make up their own minds about her guilt or innocence.

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In this episode Caroline and Liz sit down with the man at the centre of the chatter about the safety of Lucy Letby’s convictions - the man who was never called to give evidence in her trial. In this interview Dr Mike Hall questions the justice system, if jury trials are always the best way to try complex cases and his concerns about the tactics of Lucy Letby’s new barrister Mark MacDonald. 

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In this episode Caroline and Liz have the latest on Lucy Letby’s defence case after her barrister Mark McDonald hand delivered the evidence which he says proves her convictions are unsafe, to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. So we sent Liz to have a chat with him.  

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In this update Caroline and Liz have the final day of the inquiry. Lady Justice Thirlwall rejected the application made yesterday to pause the inquiry and said she hoped her final report would be ready by November.

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We are delighted to announce the launch of The Crime Desk, a brand-new podcast network which will feature some incredible new crime series we think you'll absolutely love.

To kick it off, we're going back to where it all started - with The Trial+.

Every week members of The Crime Desk will get exclusive access to brand new bonus episodes of The Trial. We will cover more cases, answer your questions, and publish mini-series about some really fascinating events.

To launch we've got a brand new mini series looking at a previously unseen report on the Countess of Chester Hospital, which employed Lucy Letby. We'll then follow it with an eye-opening series on what happens when celebrities find themselves in the dock.

It couldn't be easier to become a member, and there is a free 7 day trial available to listeners of The Trial of Lucy Letby.

To find out more, simply go to www.thecrimedesk.com - alternatively, if you're reading this in Spotify or Apple, scroll to to top of the page and hit the subscribe button.

We love bringing you this podcast, we hope you enjoy it too - if you do, your support would mean the world to us.

Caroline & Liz.

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In this episode Caroline and Liz discuss the closing statements of the families of the babies and the senior executives of the Countess of Chester Hospital. We’ve got details of the executives’ application to pause the inquiry amid claims that ‘new’ evidence could render Lucy Letby’s convictions unsafe.

And the response of the families, who argue it is simply a cynical ploy by a manipulative serial killer to control the narrative and an attempt by senior managers to avoid criticism.

We also bring you the pleas of the mums and dads in this case, who say the NHS must make changes and formally regulate senior executives to stop a similar tragedy ever happening again.

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In this episode of the Trial Update, Caroline and Liz have the assurance the Heath Secretary Wes Streeting has given to the inquiry that what happened at the Countess of Chester Hospital should never happen anywhere else. The inquiry was also told that the Department for Health were “deeply troubled” by the way the doctors were treated by senior managers. And the hospital has now accepted for the first time that Lucy Letby should have been suspended in October 2015, before she attacked seven more babies. 

Plus we’ve got the details of two applications to pause the Thirlwall inquiry - one from Lucy Letby herself, and one from the hospital’s senior managers.

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In this emergency episode Caroline and Liz have the breaking news that detectives are now investigating certain members of staff who worked at the hospital at the time Lucy Letby was killing and harming babies. Cheshire Police have confirmed their investigation into Corporate Manslaughter, which focused on the hospital, has now been upgraded to Gross Negligence Manslaughter. That means they are now investigating individual members of staff to see whether what they did – or didn’t do - amounted to a crime. 

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In this episode Caroline and Liz discuss this week’s press conference by Lucy Letby’s defence team. They go over the findings of the expert panel, who now say she isn't guilty of any murders, and compare it to the evidence scrutinised at her two trials.

They also speak to Lord Ken Macdonald KC, the former Director of Public Prosecutions, who gives his take on the Criminal Cases Review Commission and Lucy Letby’s chances of a new appeal.

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Caroline and Liz run through the evidence of the final week of witnesses, including that of Jane Tomkinson, the current chief executive of the Countess of Chester Hospital.

She tells the inquiry that things have significantly changed in the nine years since Lucy Letby murdered babies on the neo-natal unit and that senior managers are more open and better at listening to staff than before.

We also hear from an expert statistician and Cambridge academic Sir Professor David Spiegelhalter, who explains that while the 2015 spike in deaths was unusual for the Countess, it wasn’t particularly rare from a national perspective and other units had similar neo-natal mortality rates.

Caroline and Liz also talk to journalist David James Smith about Lucy Letby’s chances of securing a new appeal, and his time as a commissioner on the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

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