Window Treatment Marketing Pros

Guest Profile: Ryan Murray

Ryan Murray is the owner & CEO of AAA Blind & Shutter Factory in Little River, SC. AAA is a fabricator and dealer of Shutters, Roller Shades and Blinds. Ryan comes from outside the window treatment industry with a diverse background in finance & accounting, sales & marketing and was most recently a General Manager for a large MedTech company. Ryan acquired AAA in 2024 by following the path of ETA (entrepreneurship thru acquisition), and has successfully grown the business 20% in his first year of ownership. Ryan plans to continue to grow AAA organically and inorganically with more acquisitions.

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AAA Blind and Shutter Factory: Visit Website
Book Mentioned: Outgrow

Learn more about Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition (ETA): [email protected]

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TRANSCRIPT

William Hanke (00:00)
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes. This is episode number 45, the podcast where we talk to with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today we’ve got a guest with some great insights that I’m excited to interview. His name is Ryan Murray. Ryan is the owner and CEO of AAA Blind Shutter Factory in Little River.

South Carolina. Is it okay if I call it AAA from now on? Okay. AAA is a fabricator and dealer of shutters, roller shades and blinds. Ryan comes from outside the window treatment industry with a diverse background in finance and accounting, sales, marketing, and was most recently a general manager for a large med tech company. Ryan acquired AAA in

Ryan Murray (00:31)
Yeah, absolutely.

William Hanke (00:55)
2024 by following the path of ETA and entrepreneurship through acquisition. going to jump into that in just a second. Ryan has successfully grown the business 20 % in his first year of ownership and he plans to continue to grow AAA organically and inorganically with more acquisitions. Ryan, thank you so much for being on.

Ryan Murray (01:19)
Yeah, thanks Will, really excited to do this with you.

William Hanke (01:22)
Yeah, yeah, your whole story has really intrigued me. I know that you acquired AAA specifically about a year ago through what you call entrepreneurship through acquisition. So what drew you to the window treatment industry and specifically to a business that was 30 years old?

Ryan Murray (01:41)
Yeah, so I actually came out of college as an accounting major and I got my CPA. So I worked a traditional W2 job, if you will, before I got into business ownership. I always knew I wanted to be a business owner. And my risk profile didn’t allow for me to shoot for that zero to one startup style. So after working a number of years for large companies,

switching careers from accounting and finance, eventually into sales and marketing, where I did get a bit of a taste of entrepreneurship. I was in a role where I was a hundred percent commissioned, eat what you kill, responsible for your business and revenue. And I really was excited by that opportunity to, to live and eat on my own efforts. And so

I found this path, entrepreneurship through acquisition, as an alternative path to entrepreneurship that was a much better fit for my risk profile. And the data shows is you have a much higher likelihood of success versus zero to one startups. No knock on them, they’re super difficult. So those that do succeed in that type of an entrepreneurship, kudos to them.

It’s just a different style. So it was something I had sort of uncovered while I was in business school and upon graduation pursued it. I was frankly industry agnostic. I was more geographically focused, wanted to be in the Myrtle Beach area.

William Hanke (02:52)
OK.

Ryan Murray (03:02)
I just relocated there to be closer to family with my wife and now two sons. And I was fortunate enough to come across AAA Blind and Shutter Factory, which had a great strong history. This is our 29th year in business.

What I liked about the business is not only is window treatments a great industry, but there was also some real estate involved in the acquisition as well. So I was really drawn to something that had a tangible product, had a sales process, and something that fit my skills from my prior background, which I somewhat consider myself a generalist, given I have a mix of some technical with accounting and finance, as well as sales and marketing and some general management.

And it’s just been a lot of fun to learn a new widget. But when it comes down to running a business, a lot of the functions and practices are the same. And so being able to apply that prior knowledge has been, led me to least some success in the first year and we’re hoping more to come.

William Hanke (04:03)
Cool. So I’m curious how you even came across AAA in the first place. And once you kind of got involved, what was the first big change that you made and how did that go?

Ryan Murray (04:16)
Yeah, so for the uninitiated, when it comes to entrepreneurship through acquisition, the first step you take is you launch what’s called a search is what it’s commonly known as. And there’s different types of flavors of entrepreneurship or ETA as well. I pursued the self-funded path, which meant I was going to fund the bulk of the acquisition with equity, but also SBA debt.

The SBA has a great lending program that allows for small businesses to capitalize and make acquisitions happen. So like I said before, I was more geographically focused, but I had a criteria, a certain criteria for the business that I wanted to buy. I wanted it to have a long tenure, a motivated seller who had a great history with the business, one that had grown and one that had a tangible product and ideally real estate.

A Blind and Shutter Factory checked all those boxes for me. And what’s also great about the window treatment industry is the average ticket size, as well as the number of transactions that the business was performing was an attractive feature as well. And so I had looked at probably in depth 40 to 50 businesses before coming across AAA and Blind and Shutter Factory. And the way that I actually found it was through a broker. There’s multiple

William Hanke (05:29)
Okay.

Ryan Murray (05:35)
sit business brokers out there similar to real estate brokers, but please don’t confuse the two because they are very different. and the sellers who I purchased from had contracted a broker who had listed the business on business websites. There’s different websites where you can find businesses for sale. And so I had been performing a search, came across AAA, contacted the broker and we, took it from there.

William Hanke (05:42)
you

I know there are several business brokers in my town, so I’m pretty sure they’re pretty easy to find across the board.

Ryan Murray (06:08)
Yeah, so, and those relationships, that’s just one flavor of search is you can do what’s called a brokered search where you focus on those relationships. And eventually I did have some brokers who would reach out to me with opportunities. And so there’s all different flavors of entrepreneurship or searching. And so that was just the type that I had pursued. knowing your business brokers as well as tax advisors or wealth advisors, those

who are in the network with other business owners, real estate agents are good for that too, is a good way to find opportunities if you’re looking for a business to buy.

William Hanke (06:42)
Okay, all types of people that hang out at networking events. So they’re not hard to find, that’s for sure. Yeah, so tell me about once you got involved in the business, what was the first big change that you made?

Ryan Murray (06:49)
Absolutely.

Yeah, so the first big change that I made was actually the time clock and payroll. The business was most processes were being done on paper, including the time clock for the production facility and all the employees. And so that was the first change I made was I made the time clock digital.

William Hanke (07:02)
Okay.

Ryan Murray (07:14)
The business wasn’t doing direct deposit, so they were issuing paper checks for payroll every two weeks. that it sounds like a small change, but it was a huge lift and the employees were really excited and not have to drive to the bank every other Friday to cash their check. The paper time clock had all kinds of issues. We actually had some fun one day, took the paper time clock off the wall and we went outside and beat it with a bat, threw it in the dumpster.

William Hanke (07:36)
What?

Ryan Murray (07:37)
as sort of a impromptu team building exercise. So that was the first big change. And the second one was instituting software. As I mentioned, everything was done on paper, including our ordering and quoting processes. And for 28 years, this business had succeeded that way, quoting on triplicate paper. And that was our source of truth for all customer information, all ordering products. And we now have that in an electronic system.

And while it was an adjustment, it’s been a huge uplift for us to be able to track customer information, orders, have that all electronically so we can query it and just be more efficient and accurate in our coding and ordering processes.

William Hanke (08:18)
Yeah, I love those two changes and it is, it’s interesting how inconvenient it is now to go to a bank, right? We’re so spoiled that just something as simple as that can really make people happy.

Ryan Murray (08:31)
Yeah, and to me, they were pretty simple changes, but to the employees who had been there for a while, it made a huge difference. So ⁓ I was excited. But now we’re getting into some more difficult changes. Production facility we’re focusing on now, bringing in some automation, which what that means is bringing in some machinery to automate, particularly our shutter production process. We’re going to change the way we build the shutter. And so…

William Hanke (08:39)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

OK.

Ryan Murray (08:59)
So change is not gonna stop. It doesn’t stop with the payroll and the ERP system. So we’re gonna continue to improve our processes with tools, electronic and non-electronic. so that change is gonna continue to happen.

William Hanke (09:02)
All

That’s awesome. Sounds like you’ve got kind of a plan put together, which is obviously really good.

Ryan Murray (09:18)
Yeah, I have a plan and whether or not that plan works is to be seen. We’ve had plans that we’ve had to pivot, but such is business ownership and that’s what makes it fun and exciting.

William Hanke (09:22)
you

Yeah, yeah. So a lot of window treatment companies only sell and install products from suppliers, and that’s probably most of my listeners as well. How does being both a manufacturer and a dealer position you differently in the market?

Ryan Murray (09:43)
Yeah. So again, what another thing that attracted me to this business is, is that it is unique within the industry given that we fabricate. We also do deal, but 80 % of our sales are our two main products, which are shutters and roller shades that are produced in our factory in Little River by local employees and installed by local employees. So we’re really proud of that. And the goal long-term is for our factory to become a platform.

but we do also deal some other products that we don’t make. The name actually AAA Blind and Shutter Factory, we used to make blinds. We actually now outsource that because it’s only about 5 % of sales, which I think is becoming more common in the industry. So we outsource that product and the space we were utilizing for blinds, we now use for roller shades, which is about 25 to 30 % of our sales. So it makes us unique because we’re able to issue a local offering.

People like to work with local businesses, especially now with all the discussion around tariffs and bringing American manufacturing back. It’s really helpful to our brand to be a local American manufacturer. And then inside of the business that allows us to control quality, it allows us to control our lead times. We’re faster than most of our competitors. We’re able to customize any shutter or roller shade to almost any spec that a customer would need.

And we’re less reliant on third parties since we’re playing a little higher up the value chain. it allows us to say yes a lot of times when others say no, particularly when it comes to timelines or certain customization. And then it also just allows us to provide a faster and more high touch experience. And then on the financial side, Martins are hired as well since again, we’re purchasing a lot of our material and then.

So we have some leverage there when it comes to material and even tariffs. And so it’s really unique in the industry in that fact. I know there are other fabricators out there, but there’s not too many in the Carolinas. And so we’re really proud to offer position ourselves as an American manufacturer.

William Hanke (11:54)
Yeah, I think that’s a huge advantage, especially nowadays as you mentioned. So I know your company serves a 50, 60 mile radius. How important is that local manufacturer identity to your customers?

Ryan Murray (12:06)
It’s extremely important. We’ve become so well known in the local community because of our fact that we are a manufacturer. And again, what it allows us to do is provide a superior customer experience. The customer knows they’re going to, when they call us, talk to someone on the phone. They know that not only are we going to be their customer service and sales team, we’re their manufacturer and we’re their installer.

We’re handling every step of the process as well as covering any warranties or repairs. So they know that they’re investing in a product that was locally made from a company that’s been around for almost 30 years. And if they ever have any issues, they’re investing in a product that they know is going to have support for decades to come. So we have a number of repeat customers who have purchased from us over that 29 year period in three, four, some five homes as they’ve either upgraded, downgraded or

move to a different location within our radius. And then with that, we get a ton of referrals too. it’s being local and controlling our manufacturing just provides us a lot more control over the experience for the customer. And that’s been a huge, huge benefit for us. I mentioned faster lead times, what it also does is allows us to employ more members of the community. So in our production facility, we have about 10 employees right now and all local employees.

And it’s frankly, it’s fun to go to work every day for me because there’s always a challenge to face, but we have such great people that look forward and really take pride in crafting a custom and local product that is going to go in customers homes in their windows that they’re going to look at every day. And, you know, it allows us to pivot and adapt quickly when a customer has an issue, a customer quest, a change, you know, God forbid we make a mistake on a shutter.

we’re able to correct that more quickly than anybody because we can have a remake out to them, you know, potentially the next day if we really need to, as opposed to purchasing from a supplier. So there’s a number of advantages, but it really comes down to the customer experience. They really feel like they know us personally, our employees personally, and that keeps customers coming back and referring their friends and family.

William Hanke (14:04)
Yeah, that’s huge.

Yeah, I think there’s definitely an advantage to owning the entire experience. As you mentioned, you guys have some fantastic leverage there. When it comes to manufacturing, what are some of the biggest challenges that you’ve faced that perhaps a retail-only business wouldn’t encounter?

Ryan Murray (14:36)
Yeah, so starting out of the gate, you have to manage your supply. So there’s certain raw materials that we still have to order from a supplier. So managing a higher level of inventory is critical because we’re managing raw materials, work in progress, in addition to dealers are handling finished goods, we’re doing that as well. So, and then it’s managing the production flow. Production is a chain and if once…

linking that chain is weak. It can cause a bottleneck. Things can slow down and get you off track. So we’ve gotten really efficient to where we can offer a customer an installation date upon ordering. many of our competitors wait till the product comes in to do that. We can provide that to them as soon as they order because we know what our production schedule looks like over the next few weeks. So, but on occasion that schedule gets a bit off track. We still

William Hanke (15:16)
yeah, for sure.

Ryan Murray (15:29)
Production relies on employees and humans who at times call out sick, things happen, but we have processes in place to make up for any gaps that sometimes pop up. And in a small business, we’ve learned to deal with them. so most of the challenges are not unique, I’d say, and we have some rules and ways to handle them, but then there are exceptions you just have to manage. But I think overall, it’s just…

With the challenges, there’s so much benefit that outweigh those challenges that being a manufacturer really is part of the reason why we’re so successful.

William Hanke (16:02)
Yeah, yeah, that’s great. Let’s talk about technology. How has implementing technology affected the manufacturing and your business operations?

Ryan Murray (16:12)
Yeah, technology has been, it’s really something we’ve tried to add. So it’s very new to the business, I’ll say. So operations have become much more efficient with, mentioned the ERP earlier, as far as introducing technology into the production process, we do have some semi-automation, some machinery that’s man or woman operated. And so we…

just yesterday actually purchased our first fully automated machine, which we expect to arrive in eight to 10 weeks that will actually build our louver trees for us. So we’re really excited about that. So what it’s gonna allow us to do is be more efficient and allow our team to focus on the jobs that really require a human touch. Things like quality control and

It allows us to provide better customer service. We’ll be able to make shutters faster. The machines in a lot of way, but we’ll be more accurate as well. And so it’s just going to allow us to serve the customer faster and better. So technology is something that we’re layering into the business with a cadence. I would love to add more automation and, add to the tech stack, but I’m also very careful about that as a business that was on paper, just really as of about six months ago, it was completely on paper.

Some of that’s going to take time, but I think that’s again an advantage for us that it’s going to allow us to really leverage the fact that it really allows us to control our cost structure when it comes to automation and finding those efficiencies will help us invest in other areas, whether that’s expanding or adding more employees to help us do those jobs that only humans can do.

William Hanke (17:55)
How have your employees reacted to the technology changes? I know you mentioned the payroll and that was really cool for them. But some of these other things they may look at it as you’re taking their jobs. How are your employees reacting to some of the other things you’re hoping to bring in?

Ryan Murray (18:11)
Yeah, so our plan isn’t to take any jobs with technology. Our plan is to use that technology to allow us to expand and allow humans to continue to focus on the jobs that only they can do. And a lot of that, if I had to put it under pillars around the customer experience and quality control. So, have been really receptive of it. They’ve looked at it as something that’s additive versus something that’s going to jeopardize their position.

So we have a lot of discussion around, this is a tool to make you better at your job. This isn’t a tool to replace you. And that’s really our intent is again, as a pillar of the community, we want to continue to employ local members of that community. And so they’ve been really receptive to technology. Yeah, the learning curve is often steep. So training is really important and we’re getting better at that.

So training and being thoughtful about how the technology gets introduced is frankly just as important as the actually execution or using the technology. So we’ve really tried to be thoughtful about how we introduce things and the employees have been pretty receptive thus far with some of the changes that we’ve made.

William Hanke (19:13)
Sure.

Yeah. How about software, the other side of technology, the software you’re bringing in, new software systems? How are your employees handling that? Is it pretty easy to pick up some of the new things and move forward?

Ryan Murray (19:31)
Yeah, I would say that that’s been one of the more difficult tasks. When you introduce an ERP or CRM system, you’re doing what feels like open heart surgery on your business, especially when you’re asking team members who have built a process and created a system and followed it successfully for a number of years to introduce new technology and kind of burn the boats on some of those other systems.

William Hanke (19:41)
Right?

Ryan Murray (19:58)
It’s very, it’s very difficult. So again, that comes down to planning, setting expectations early on. I said flat out to my team, this is going to suck. This is going to be very hard for the first couple months. That’s, please expect that. And I think saying that out loud, them hearing that from me, it probably made them a little bit nervous, but it also,

William Hanke (20:17)
Yeah.

Ryan Murray (20:26)
led to fewer surprises once the software got introduced. And so they were much more receptive to fighting through that pain, that uphill climb in the first couple of weeks in particular, because they knew what we were getting into and we were doing it together. I mean, it sucked for all of us, me who I like to think I’m an early adopter with a lot of things, it was painful for me as well. So going through that journey together, you know, it’s,

it helped ease some of that pain and it just comes down to setting expectations and providing good training. And some of these things you just learn on the fly. And I think that’s what’s great about small businesses versus large, where I came from, is that a lot of employees are willing to accept that kind of build the plane as you fly it mentality, which often implementing technology can feel like that. And so it was a…

William Hanke (21:17)
Sure.

Ryan Murray (21:19)
it so far has been been a good experience. But I’m getting ready to introduce another new software here shortly. So, you know, we want to get the first one done right before we do that. But it’s only going to make us better and make our team more effective in their roles.

William Hanke (21:34)
Yeah, any unexpected hurdles when you were rolling out both the software side and the new machinery?

Ryan Murray (21:40)
Yeah, the software, again, just the amount of time it takes to fully implement it. It’s so hard to estimate that. So there’s still some features of the software that we just haven’t used yet that I thought would be in place. So as far as timing of execution, it’s been a bit delayed, but not surprising. And we’re still working through that. As far as the machinery,

We’ve tried some used machinery. The equipment I have coming in a couple of weeks is new and lesson learned there is used machinery is great. It can be a little less expensive in terms of investment, but if you don’t know how to maintain it and it doesn’t work, it’s useless. without going into too many details, there’s some machinery we’ve invested in that is not going to work out.

And that’s part of business as well. You take risks, make decisions, and sometimes it doesn’t work. And so we planned for that and the investment was such that if it did not work out, we were not going to be put out of business. And we still had room to pivot, to go to some different equipment. And so that was unexpected that we weren’t gonna be able to get this piece of machinery up and running.

So a lot of it too comes down to the know-how you have within the team. And I think my expectations were a little too high around our ability to implement this technology. So I’ve learned to call for help a little bit sooner when it comes to machinery. And so, you know, I certainly learned a hard lesson there, but a good one. And I’m glad I learned it early and will be much better for it going forward as we scale up more and more.

William Hanke (23:02)
Sure.

Yeah, great point that it’s not always the cheapest or a good deal that ends up being a great deal after all, We do something similar with websites. The way I pitch it is we don’t know how many Band-Aids have been put on that. And it might be better just to start with something new, right?

Ryan Murray (23:20)
Yep, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, it’s, yes. So sometimes starting from scratch or investing more upfront is gonna save you a lot of heartache on the backend. It’s just hard to see that upfront when you’re talking, you know, big money either way. ⁓ but yeah, lesson learned there that sometimes the bigger investment upfront is gonna save you a lot of expense on the backend.

William Hanke (23:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you mentioned earlier on that you funded a lot of this through an SBA loan. Is there wiggle room in that for these kinds of things that come up? Or how do you fund that sudden change?

Ryan Murray (24:07)
Yeah, so the SBA often, and this varies by bank, they’ll issue a line of credit. So you do have a bit of a pool you can draw from. A line of credit’s not really supposed to be used for capital expenditures. So I didn’t use that to purchase the machinery, but as far as wiggle room, you do have some built-in cushion there. But I was able to go back to the bank and get an additional loan to purchase the equipment.

So that’s one of the benefits of side effects of an SBA loan is it’s typically issued by a regional bank. And you then have a banking partner who, when it comes to purchasing machinery, making investments, is somebody you can use as a resource to be able to make those investment decisions. I was able to do that. And it was made easier by the fact that in the first year, we’ve been pretty successful.

been able to prove that we’re able to make our loan payments every month, grow the business and generate enough revenue and cashflow to not only stay in business, but to continue to invest. so building that trust and sort of proving yourself with the bank has opened some options that I may not have had from day one. So having a bagging partner has been critical and will be critical to going forward or our continued growth.

William Hanke (25:13)
That’s great.

Yeah, good to know how that kind of works. You mentioned earlier on that Myrtle Beach is one of the fastest growing markets in the country. How has this growth affected your manufacturing capabilities and your business strategy?

Ryan Murray (25:33)
Yeah, so Myrtle Beach, the greater Myrtle Beach area, depending on some measures is, I think by a percentage basis, the fastest growing, one of the fastest growing MSAs in the country. And what that means for in terms of who our customers are, a lot of our customers are people from the Northeast who are relocating. Many of them, instead of going to Florida, are coming to the Carolinas. So you have a lot of…

You have a lot of new homeowners from New Jersey, New York, Maryland, PA. And what’s good about that is housing is much less expensive in this area versus the Northeast. So there’s some arbitrage in the housing market ⁓ that has allowed for people to invest more in what goes inside of their home than just the price of purchasing the house. So given the migration that’s happened to all of the Carolinas really,

William Hanke (26:12)
Okay.

Ryan Murray (26:25)
A lot of new construction is popping up every day. So the opportunity that that presents for window treatment companies is the opportunity to do a whole house instead of just a few windows here and there. So a number of our customers are new construction and not all of them are retirees. A lot of them are families like mine that just moved here three years ago who, you know, they’re looking for something that they want to get great value.

William Hanke (26:35)
Right.

Ryan Murray (26:50)
and they also want to get a great product. And so we’re able to offer that given our manufacturing capabilities and our control over our supply chain and pricing, we’re able to offer a custom unique product, a premium product at a non-premium price. So that’s really what’s attracted many customers to working with us in addition to just the experience that they get.

and so make sure we’re communicating that value proposition, but also ensuring that customers know who our reputation and Frank, just that we exist, right? you know, one of the first principles of marketing there. And, so we focused a lot on, in addition to, talked about machinery and software, our digital marketing, which is another thing the business was not investing in prior to me taking over has been huge for us. So.

really making sure that Google business profile is optimized, SEO is dialed in. Google Ads has been huge for us. We’ve driven a lot of leads at a fairly low cost. And so we’ve been really successful in generating demand using those tools. So, you know, the growth of the market is for a while there was probably more demand than supply and

We’ve actually struggled a little bit with that on the production side and I’ve had to hold some demand back. So what I mean by that is I would like to dial up Google ads, but we actually don’t quite have the capacity. That’s changed a little bit in the last month, I think due to tariffs mostly, which I’m hoping we’ll get through that shortly. yeah, the population, the migration has just led to a lot of opportunity in the window treatment industry, but just in home services in general.

So we’re hoping that continues because frankly a lot of our success is attributed to that regional trend and I just don’t see that slowing down anytime soon. So we’re going to continue to invest in our capacity with machinery and take advantage of the growth we’re seeing in this market.

William Hanke (28:50)
I’ve seen a lot lately about, you know, US-made or US-built products, especially with the tariff conversation going on, that the demand is high and the deliverability isn’t there because they weren’t expecting this, right?

Ryan Murray (29:05)
Yeah, yeah, that, that we’ve certainly seen some of that and you know, we’ve had some disruption again with some of the changes that I mentioned has just slowed us down in ways we didn’t anticipate, created some bottlenecks in our operations and, it’s a good problem to have, right? ⁓ I’d rather have that problem than the inverse, not having enough demand and excess capacity. So ⁓ it’s, I’d rather be solving that. So.

William Hanke (29:18)
sure.

It is. Yeah.

Right.

Ryan Murray (29:33)
So yeah, we’re still working through it and we wanna be cautious, because frankly the business, given I have the SBA loan, does have a lot of debt on it. So I do have to be careful and monitor cashflow very, very closely. So it’s something that we’re keeping an eye on and I’m always trying to look around the corner like most business owners to anticipate what’s gonna happen next. But just continuing to invest in the business is…

almost always going to pay dividends.

William Hanke (30:04)
Yeah. So speaking of investing in the business, we mentioned earlier on about entrepreneurship through acquisition, right? If there was a window treatment listener on here, maybe they’re a dealer, and they’re thinking about adding on the manufacturing piece, what kind of advice would you give them about scaling, equipment, staffing, getting started?

Ryan Murray (30:26)
Yeah, so as far as manufacturing goes, there’s so many components that go into it that you have to consider. If you wanted to get into manufacturing, you’re gonna have to be able to staff it properly and you’re gonna be able to have to provide that staff the proper resources. So being prepared to invest upfront.

is key, like we talked about with the machinery. And it’s probably going to be more expensive than you plan. So be ready to have some cushion if you’re looking to make that change. you know, as far as scaling it up, it has to be well planned and one step at a time. You know, one way we’re scaling up again is the machinery, but then there’s also certain problems or

or features of scaling where the solution to the problem is not how, it’s who. So one of the things we’ve done is we’ve thought about our management structure and we’ve actually created a layer of leadership responsible for each department. So our shutter production, roller shade production, our installation team and our sales team, sort of how we break out our organization and installing a leader in each of those organizations.

has been super helpful because it allows each organization to be more agile and make decisions more quickly. I didn’t come from the industry, so I’m not an expert in how to build a shutter or even how to install one. So I rely on my people to make those decisions and we’ve installed leaders so that they can be made in the field, in the factory, on the fly, often without permission. And so finding good people, which is difficult.

A lot of our people that have been put in those leadership positions have been promoted within the business and we’re really proud of that. So taking care of good employees and being able to show them a career path where they can advance has been really helpful for us, especially having a multifaceted business where we have sales, installation and production. So being able to create opportunity and show employees that there’s a path forward.

which is afforded by the fact that the business is growing, but it creates this flywheel, right? If the business is growing, we can create more opportunity, employees can move up, they’re more motivated, you can attract better talent. And so it’s created this in the short term, this flywheel that has allowed us to succeed. mean, but I would say people in process are the number one thing when it comes to being able to either start, run, or scale up a…

William Hanke (32:39)
Yeah.

Ryan Murray (32:59)
manufacturing facility. So I’m still figuring it out, learning every day. ⁓ But so so far what we’re doing is working and we’re really proud of it.

William Hanke (33:04)
Sure.

So on the other side of that question, what about, since you’re somebody who’s kind of interested in acquiring more window treatment companies, what qualities would you look for in potential acquisitions?

Ryan Murray (33:22)
Yeah, so one is a solid history. So you want to find a business that’s been in business for a number of years that has a track record. Ideally, you’ll find a seller who is motivated either they’re retiring. That’s often the best profile is somebody who has run a successful business, maybe doesn’t have family or someone they want to hand it down to. And they’re looking for an exit so they can retire. That’s often the purest motivation for selling.

So that those are those two things are the first two I’d say green lights for me when evaluating a business You want to make sure it’s bankable meaning if you’re going to use an SBA loan Or some type of debt to purchase the business you want to make sure that the acquisition price you’re going to pay is Going to underwrite with the bank. So Meaning is there enough cash left over after you pay that debt each month to pay yourself?

continue to invest in the business, pay your employees and continue to operate the business. So that’s important as well, because if you pay too much for a business or the price is too high, you’re not going to be able to get that deal funded. And that’ll be a non-starter if you’re looking to use SBA or bank debt. So I would say those are just high level. The first couple of points of criteria I look at, but

William Hanke (34:32)
Yeah.

Ryan Murray (34:42)
Then going a level deeper, you want to make sure that that seller, the person you’re working with, you want to evaluate them as an individual and make sure you’re working with a good person because that’ll be an indication of how the employees were treated, how the business was run. A lot of times the business takes on the personality of the owner. So you want to make sure you’re just working with someone who you feel is a trustworthy and just a solid person. So I was fortunate to AAA was owned and run by

a husband and wife team for a number of years and they just turned, they’re just A plus people and that was pretty obvious upfront. So that allows you that trust to really work through some hard things that happened during an acquisition. There are just things that happened that challenges, disagreements that you’re just gonna have to work through. And if your counterparty on the other side is…

somebody who’s not trustworthy or difficult to work with, it’s gonna be so much harder to overcome those things. And so much time gets invested and deals like this die all the time. So a lot of it comes down to just working with good people and being able to work through issues. So I would say upfront, couple of things are without them, it’s gonna be really hard to even get started. So looking for those things out of the gate, if they’re not there, we’ll help you move on more quickly too. Saying no fast is really important.

The last thing you want to do is spend too much time on a deal that’s just not going to work. So being able to evaluate that and sense that out upfront, which frankly takes a few repetitions. I had to learn some of those things the hard way. But ultimately, it led me to building a criteria that helped me find a really great business. So that would be my advice to anybody who’s looking to acquire one. also, if anybody listening, I’m sure will put my information.

out here at the podcast, I’m happy to talk to them as well. There’s a number of people in this somewhat nascent industry, which I’ll ETA, so buying small businesses. There’s a number of providers out there who can help guide you through this process as well, if it’s something that you feel you need help with. So I’m happy to talk to anybody who wants to discuss it to give them some tips and pearls and some guidance.

William Hanke (36:50)
Yeah, appreciate that. Appreciate that. I know I’ve heard in the past something similar to what you said about working hard to disqualify a lot of the list, you know, so that you’re not wasting time on those things.

Ryan Murray (37:03)
Yeah, it’s, ⁓

yeah, cause the time you waste on a bad deal could be the time invested. could invest in looking at a good one. So it’s, you know, you want to say no quickly if you see certain, certain red flags and move on fast. Cause it’s probably going to take you multiple attempts to find the right one.

William Hanke (37:21)
Yeah, I know you’ve got a little background in marketing. Of course, that’s what I really like. How does marketing a manufacturing business differ from marketing a retail only window treatment business?

Ryan Murray (37:34)
Yes, a lot of it is around that positioning and branding. So communicating the fact that we are a local manufacturer, we’re USA made, local employees. So local is really the theme here. it’s been something I’ve kind of been learning on the fly, how to really communicate that differentiation to the customer.

Not every customer cares about local. Some care about budget, some care about quality more than where it’s made. really knowing who your customers are and getting that message to those who really care about local. so we’ve retrieved a lot of data from Google and Facebook. I’ve used a lot of AI, chat GPT, Claw to distill some of that data.

Every couple of months I’ll have ChatGPT do a study on our Google reviews. We’re up to 273 five-star reviews. So that’s a really good source of information. And ChatGPT can distill it in a way that will provide insights that frankly has helped us change our brand positioning and how we communicate to customers. And that’s where we really learned too that customer experience is so valuable because over 50 % of our reviews

the customer mentioned one of our employees by name and how great they were and how they’ll never go anywhere else for window treatments in the future. so there’s data out there that you just, there’s so many tools you can use to gain some insights and help it to refine your messaging and your branding. And so we’re always talking about that too.

William Hanke (38:53)
Great.

Ryan Murray (39:11)
I’m always asking employees what customers are saying. So just getting that feedback from the customer themselves, but also from any data point that you can. And with tools like AI tools, you can easily distill that down and have it make recommendations. And AI has been a really great thought partner, distilling that data information and has really allowed us to identify how we should position our brand in the market.

William Hanke (39:36)
I love that. I love the idea of putting all your reviews into AI and then kind of get a summary. We do something similar with our clients’ phone calls. So every call is recorded. We upload those transcriptions and say, us common themes, common questions. What kind of things keep coming up that maybe we could kind of sort of optimize?

Ryan Murray (39:56)
Yeah,

we’ll have to talk more about that. I’m very interested in that. The software I’m actually looking at implementing next is a call tracking software. we’ll have to discuss that. actually just this morning, I got done writing a new script for follow-ups. So we would love to close customers 100 % of the time in the field, but that doesn’t happen. We’re about 70%.

So follow up is so important because you’ve invested all that time to, you’ve paid for the lead, you’ve gone out to the appointment, you spent time with the customer, our sales manager has been in their house, they’ve talked to our customer service team on the phone, and so that follow up is really key to capitalize on that investment of money and time you spent working with that lead and customer. And so I was using ChatGPT to kind of,

William Hanke (40:24)
Yeah.

Ryan Murray (40:46)
Customize a script for us and it’s something that we’re we’re going to implement here in the next few weeks with a new follow-up system and so Yeah, using the tools to your advantage It is key and allows you to create leverage within the business again going back to using technology to make employees better That’s that’s that’s my goal when I use a tool like that

William Hanke (41:06)
Right. I love that you brought up the follow-up thing. It’s amazing how many business owners just don’t follow up. You know, they do the quote, and well, I never heard from them. I’m reading a book right now called Outgrow, which is just fantastic about getting better at that follow-up piece and making it just a helpful conversation instead of trying to get the yes. I think that’s great.

Ryan Murray (41:27)
Yeah, exactly. I think it was one

of your videos where I learned that, was it like 80 % of deals closed after the sixth follow-up? There’s some interesting data around the number of follow-ups required too. it’s, you know, obviously there’s a cadence and there’s a channel you can use for each file. You know, it’s, you can really, you can really get.

William Hanke (41:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Murray (41:49)
super complex but ultimately the takeaway is you just have to follow up period. It’s so important. You’ve worked so hard to get that lead and a five minute phone call might lead to thousands of dollars. So why would you not make it? you know, the pushback I get is the used car salesman feel and it, but there’s ways to not do that. You’re trying to meet people where they are.

and make it easy for them. And oftentimes that follow-up call is easy for them because they say, yeah, you were here. Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s go forward. I forgot to call. I couldn’t find your number. So those are the customers we’re trying to capture. We’re not trying to convince anybody to do something they don’t want to do. So follow-up is just so key.

William Hanke (42:10)
All

Yeah, quick story, our home got hit by a tornado.

in March and just ruin deciding the roof needs to be replaced. I had three different roofers come out and that’s not cheap. I that’s going to be twenty two grand, I think, for the roof. ⁓ And so I three guys out. One of them stood in my living room and told me how much he’s focused on building relationships and things like that. And never heard from him again. And the one guy that I ended up hiring was the one that followed up probably three times.

Ryan Murray (42:42)
Sure.

William Hanke (42:57)
because I was busy worried about siding and gutters and all the other things, right? So that guy got the job.

Ryan Murray (43:03)
100%. I had the same exact experience with a job at my home about three weeks ago. I had three estimates and the guy who followed up while I was running around worrying about our next container of material coming in, right? Not even, and he got a text, hey, are you ready to move forward? I’ll take a few bucks off the quote, right? And I just said, yep, let’s do it. Yep, when can we start, right? All because he sent me a text. So it’s huge.

William Hanke (43:17)
You

Yeah.

Right, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, good stuff. I love that you guys are doing the digital marketing side too. Obviously, that’s my passion. But it’s cool to see even on the manufacturing side that you guys are still using that to kind of generate some business.

Ryan Murray (43:42)
Yeah, digital marketing, mean, in this day and age, you’re not using that channel to market, you’re behind. And there’s so many different sources you can use. I’m trying to learn every day how we can take further advantage of it, because it’s so scalable and it creates so much leverage. So it’s a…

and there’s so many different steps within that process, you can optimize one or two percent, right? And if one percent here, one percent there can lead to a few thousand dollars in sales with just a little bit of effort, so.

William Hanke (44:02)
You

Right.

Yeah. So you mentioned that you guys have kind of, you’re in a situation with lots of demand. Tell me, you also said that you kind of have basically two lines of products that is the bulk of your sales. Do you guys have any plans on adding in like exterior stuff or any other products?

Ryan Murray (44:30)
Sure, yeah, so we’re evaluating exterior now. We were looking for some vendors at IWCE just a couple weeks ago. Did our first measure for an outdoor shade about a week ago. And the product we were gonna use turns out it’s not gonna be a great fit. So we’re gonna have to go back to the drawing board. As far as what we manufacture, we’re gonna continue to focus on shutters and roller shades. We do offer solar shades as part of our roller shade line.

that can be used in screened in porches, but I wouldn’t call them true exterior. You’re not going to use it to enclose the lanai with a captured edge like product. So we’re looking for partners to do that. Bahama shutters and colonial shutters, I think are an interesting play as well. And so we’ve talked with a partner about potentially evaluating that category. And so this year,

we’re gonna look to add some outdoor, because it’s just the trend with outdoor has, it’s here, it’s been here. And now with people staying in place, 80 % of homeowners having a mortgage rate under, I think 4%, right? Making it very difficult for certain individuals to move. So they’re investing in their homes, they’re upgrading, they’re improving, they’re building a nicer backyard.

And so that’s a wave we want to get involved with. so, you know, it’s difficult though when you’re trying to manage a manufacturing facility as well and invest in that to add new products. so we’re trying to take it one step at a time, but I think that’s a trend that’s here to stay that we’re missing out on if we don’t add it to our portfolio. So we’re just in the beginnings of that.

We’re excited to get that going.

William Hanke (46:07)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. But as you said earlier, it’s a good problem to have, right? I mean, it’s it’s it’s an issue, but that’s OK. We’ll get through it. So a couple of quick fun questions or a little bit light hearted. What’s one thing you do as a leader that people might not see, but it makes a really big impact?

Ryan Murray (46:15)
Yeah, exactly.

tough one. think, one thing I do is I’m, I’m always trying to think of second and third order effects of any decision I make or anything I say or do particularly around employees. I’m always trying to anticipate the reaction and I’m always trying to think of ways that can boost morale, keep people happy, but also keeping people motivated to do a good job.

to train, to get better at their job. And so I spent, it’s hard to turn it off, right? Like you were saying earlier, I think you’re doing a workcation a little bit this week, you’d said. So as a business owner, it’s hard to turn it off sometimes. so I try to lead with my whole self and be genuine. And I always try to think of…

William Hanke (47:03)
Yeah.

Ryan Murray (47:15)
of the people and how’s this decision going to affect them? Not only is it how is it going to affect the business, but how is it going to affect the people? Because it doesn’t happen without happy motivated people. So I always try to think those consequences through two, three steps ahead. And a lot of times I’m wrong, but I’m pretty open about that. And when I do get it wrong, I feel they, my team gives me a little more slack because they know

how I’m thinking and the logic that I’m using behind any decision I make. So my goal is to be as predictable as possible. I want my employees to know what I’m going to say or when I’m going to say it when a situation arises. I would love to be that predictable for them. being willing to share and being open with the business and the results and how it’s performing and just building that trust, I think, has has gone a long way and I’m continuing to lean into that.

William Hanke (48:08)
Yeah. Have you used AI for any of that kind of stuff to help you with the decision making?

Ryan Murray (48:13)
absolutely. was chatting with, I was using voice mode with chat GPT on my way home today to evaluate a partnership. So, ⁓ so that’s why I really, I really try to think of AI is not just a, you know, a content generator. That was my initial use case, marketing copy. ⁓ More is now a thought partner. And so it’s been really helpful because it is in theory.

William Hanke (48:21)
Nice.

Right.

Ryan Murray (48:39)
objective more so than maybe a person or a consultant. So it’s been really helpful. It helps you be more, I think, less afraid to communicate in a certain way what your fears are, what your concerns are with a certain decision. So it’s been helpful in that sense and I really look forward to see where this technology goes because it’s…

It’s just been so helpful for me as a leader and a thought partner so far.

William Hanke (49:05)
Yeah, I think you hit it on the head there with Thought Partner. There’s a book called AI Driven Leader that is all about how to use AI to become a thought partner, not take over the business and make the decisions, but be able to bounce ideas off of. I think it’s a fantastic and smart way to go in the future.

Ryan Murray (49:23)
Yeah, absolutely. How do you use it? Are you using it as a thought partner in any sense?

William Hanke (49:29)
yeah, every day. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, even from employee situations, here’s what’s going on. You know, how should I approach this? and I’m also a fan of Dan Martell who always talks about, the one three one concept, is bring me the problem, bring me three potential solutions, and then bring me one that you’re considering or leaning towards. And I’ll kind of input all of that into chat GPT and say, here’s what I’m thinking, but

Give me, like you said, give me potential scenarios I’m not even considering right now that might come out of this.

Ryan Murray (50:00)
Right,

right. I think that’s been one of the steps forward with me in utilizing AI is having it, asking it, what am I missing? What am I not asking? What am I not asking you? What should I be asking you? Right? I’m saying you like it’s a person, but that’s how we communicate with the technology right now. ⁓ yeah, I think I liked that. I hadn’t heard the 131.

William Hanke (50:18)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Ryan Murray (50:28)
That’s it. I like that as a tool. yeah, it’s certainly useful. It’s a little scary how useful it is sometimes, but ⁓ it helps you uncover some things that you probably wouldn’t otherwise.

William Hanke (50:36)
Sure.

Yeah, well Ryan, I appreciate your time so much today. We dove pretty deep into ETA and some of the things that you’ve done and the manufacturing side owning that kind of a world which is different than what a lot of our listeners do. So, highly appreciate your time today.

Ryan Murray (50:56)
Yeah, and thank you. And I would just say if there’s any business owners out there listening who want to talk about ETA or are interested in selling their window treatment business or even a home service business, my email’s open. It’s ryan.aaabliens.gmail.com. I’m always happy to chat.

William Hanke (51:15)
Yeah, we’ll put your contact info in the show notes for sure along with your website, those sorts of things just to make sure everybody can get a hold of you if they need to. Again, appreciate your kindness for sharing some really cool stuff.

Ryan Murray (51:27)
Yeah, and thank you Will for providing this platform. I think what you’re doing is great. Your content, you provide so much value for free. I follow a lot of your content and it’s been, it’s made me money. So thank you and I appreciate you. The plainest sense. So thank you for doing what you do and it was really fun to do this with you today.

William Hanke (51:39)
There we go. All right, I like to hear that.

you

Awesome. Thank you, Ryan. For listeners, please consider subscribing if you haven’t already. And we’re bringing out a lot of different episodes from a lot of different people and more experts like Ryan every time we publish a new episode of Marketing Panes. So thank you for listening. Thank you, Ryan, for your time. And everybody, hope you have a great day. We’ll see you in the next episode.

Guest Profile: Mike Stolte

Introduction:

In a recent episode of Marketing Panes, we had the pleasure of sitting down with Mike Stolte, the driving force behind 406 Blinds, Montana’s top-rated window treatment business. Mike’s journey from managing satellite TV installers to leading a thriving local business is a testament to grit, strategic local marketing, and a deep commitment to community. His story is an inspiring example of turning challenges into opportunities.

Summary:

Mike Stolte’s path to success with 406 Blinds began with a pivot out of necessity. As the satellite TV industry declined, he saw an opening in the construction-driven window treatment market. Starting with just a $5 Craigslist ad, Mike built his business through grassroots efforts, community involvement, and a laser focus on customer service. His story highlights the power of local connections, smart marketing, and a resilient entrepreneurial spirit.

From Decline to Opportunity: The Birth of 406 Blinds:

In 2019, Mike faced a turning point. With the satellite TV industry on the decline, he recognized an opportunity in the growing window treatment market. This wasn’t a glamorous transition, but a strategic shift driven by necessity.

Early Hustle and Organic Growth:

With limited resources, Mike took a hands-on approach. He donned branded shirts, joined the Chamber of Commerce, and engaged in grassroots marketing—emailing builders, calling realtors, and going door-to-door. His first major breakthrough came from a simple $5 Craigslist ad, which surprisingly led to a contract with Lowe’s.

The 406 Blinds Advantage: Local Roots, Local Trust:

What sets 406 Blinds apart is its deep connection to the community. Unlike franchises, Mike and his team are Montanans serving Montanans. Their local roots and lower overhead allow them to offer competitive pricing and exceptional customer service.

Diversified Revenue Streams:

Beyond residential installations, 406 Blinds handles large commercial projects and maintains strategic partnerships, including a Costco dealership in North Dakota, expanding their reach and revenue.

Smart Marketing, Simple Systems:

Mike employs a blend of traditional and digital marketing strategies. From radio spots to geofencing ads, he’s gradually embracing digital tools while still valuing the power of chamber networking and community volunteering.

Measuring What Matters:

A key metric for Mike is his closing ratio, which he aims to keep between 60-70%. This helps him gauge pricing, value perception, and sales performance, ensuring sustainable growth.

Growth Strategies That Scale:

Mike’s approach to expansion is cost-efficient. Instead of investing in warehouses, he uses UPS store boxes for North Dakota deliveries, keeping costs low while scaling operations effectively.

Community Involvement as Marketing:

Mike is deeply involved in his community, participating in food drives and supporting local sports. This not only builds goodwill but also strengthens relationships, which are vital for his business.

Mike Stolte’s Top Business Lessons:

1. Don’t Give Up: Resilience is crucial in the face of challenges.
2. Track Your Money: Good accounting software is essential for financial health.
3. Think Like an Entrepreneur: Always seek solutions and opportunities when challenges arise.

Conclusion:

Mike Stolte’s journey with 406 Blinds is an inspiring story of turning adversity into success through hard work, community focus, and smart business strategies. His insights offer valuable lessons for any entrepreneur looking to build a thriving business from the ground up.

Video

Click here to display Transcript

TRANSCRIPT

Will Hanke (00:00)
All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today, we have a guest with some great insights, and I’m very happy to have Mike on today. So Mike Stolte is the owner of 406 Blinds. He has grown his business every year since launching in 2019.

As a premium partner with Graber, 406 Blinds operates in Montana and Bismarck, North Dakota, securing major installs, including 20 plus apartment buildings in Bozeman. Voted Montana’s best window treatment company in 2024. The company is also a Costco partner with Graber in North Dakota. And when not working, Mike enjoys the outdoors with his wife and three kids. Mike, thank you so much for being on.

Mike Stolte (00:58)
absolutely, thanks for having me.

Will Hanke (01:00)
I appreciate it. noticed when I was reading through that that I said North Dakota and that’s a very Midwest thing to say. anyway, thanks so much for being on. I really do appreciate it. You are you’re in the North Dakota area and Montana. So do you have two separate locations?

Mike Stolte (01:05)
you

Yeah.

Yeah, well, we started in Bozeman, Montana, kind of expanded to West Montana. So we’re strategic in Montana where we can cover a lot of estate. And then North Dakota came because I had the opportunity to go with Costco. So we’re basically on the I-90-94 corridor east to west.

Will Hanke (01:41)
Okay. Awesome. Cool. So before we got started, obviously we talked about some different things. And one of the things that you told me is that you managed satellite TV installers for 20 years before starting 406 blinds in 2019. What inspired you to transition to the window treatment industry?

Mike Stolte (02:00)
Well, I wish I could say I was inspired. It was out of necessity. DirecTV, I was with DirecTV 13, 14 years, managing installers. Before that I was with Sprint. And so I had 20 years management experience. And DirecTV was great until the end. Do you know how like the cell phone kind of took over the landline? This thing called the internet.

Will Hanke (02:05)
Okay.

Yeah.

Mike Stolte (02:30)
and streaming put us, DirecTV, putting old school satellites on roofs, kind of, it turned it into a declining market. And it’s not completely obsolete, but close to it. At the time I saw one of my colleagues get laid off and I saw the writing on the wall that I was probably next. So, wanted to leave a declining market and…

Will Hanke (02:51)
Yeah.

Mike Stolte (02:54)
move into like an expanding market and the building industry was just booming here at the time. It still is in some ways, but it’s changed a little bit, but that is how I started 406 Blinds.

Will Hanke (03:09)
Interesting way to get into it. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about 406 blinds. What kind of separates you from some of your competitors?

Mike Stolte (03:10)
Thank

Well, we’re not a franchise and I’m not knocking a franchise, believe me, a lot of my peers and networking groups are in a franchise. But what’s great about that is I don’t have any monthly fees. We operate at really low monthly costs. We’re local, local homegrown business. I’ve stepped foot in this valley in 1993. My Jeremy.

Who helps me run the western part of the state is born and bred Montanen. We’re local. And that just gives us an opportunity to give really good high class customer service. We respond right away. And I feel like that’s a pretty, a lot of people, especially Montanens, even though we’re super widespread geographically.

There are still less than a million people. So it is a small town feel and a lot of people love homegrown local businesses.

Will Hanke (04:15)
Yeah, yeah, that’s always a really nice point to have that local flavor to it. It gives you an advantage in some ways.

Mike Stolte (04:23)
For sure. Yeah, absolutely.

Will Hanke (04:25)
Yeah. So how are you positioning 406 to attract customers who are who are obviously valuing quality window treatments in a growing market like Bozeman?

Mike Stolte (04:34)
Yeah, no, that’s a really good question. And I think the word is out now. When I first started even six years ago, it was me and a couple of the brand names that you probably know. But now there’s seven or eight, nine companies on Google that will show up. The word is out now in town here. I can’t speak for everywhere. But if you call a blind person, you’re going to probably pay a little more and get a little better quality. So I don’t have to do anything proactive positioning.

But once we do get in the home, some people do have a little sticker shock. And that’s when it comes into where you have to explain the value of what you’re offering. That we are much different than going to big box store and buying a blind there. We have a limited lifetime warranty. They’re going to last you 20 years. The energy efficiency, you just really explain the value to the customer.

Will Hanke (05:28)
Yeah, so the word is out, that’s great. What kind of marketing are you guys doing ongoing?

Mike Stolte (05:34)
It’s changed since the beginning. In the beginning, just starting out, like I had no capital. So I just went door to door, bought some shirts with my logo on it, joined the Chamber of Commerce to meet people and network. Just on the ground marketing, emailing builders, calling builders, emailing realtors, just old school marketing that’s essentially free.

Will Hanke (05:57)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Stolte (05:57)
And then once you get a little bit of capital, you know, we started doing radio commercials every year, which seems kind of antiquated, but it’s still here. You know, Montana is still local, has a real local presence. And now finally this year, I’m joining this century and doing some digital marketing as well.

Will Hanke (06:14)
Well, that’s great. I love to hear that. It’s really cool that you kind of, you you started as a as a grounds up, you know, hitting the hitting the road and eat what you kill kind of thing. Right. Yeah, yeah. And that’s that’s typical for a lot of business owners outside of like a franchise where you’re you’re kind of given an area, but you still got to beat the pavement a bit. But I but I do love the fact that you’re just.

Mike Stolte (06:22)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, for sure.

Will Hanke (06:40)
You know, basically, hey, I want to start this thing. Now I got to figure out how to how to put fuel in it. Right. Very cool. So you mentioned Chamber of Commerce, you doing any other kind of networking?

Mike Stolte (06:45)
Yep, yep, yep, exactly.

It just kind of builds from there. What’s great about the chamber is you meet, it’s just all a bunch of local businesses that need customers. So you’re meeting realtors, you’re meeting landscapers, you’re meeting property managers, builders, insurance agents. It’s just a great way to network and expand that web of people that you know in town. And word of mouth is huge too. So if you do a few good jobs,

Will Hanke (07:09)
Yeah.

Mike Stolte (07:14)
treat the customer right, the word gets out pretty quick.

Will Hanke (07:18)
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned that you were emailing builders and things like that. Tell us a little bit about that. Like, how’d you how’d you come up with a list of those guys and what were their responses, if any?

Mike Stolte (07:29)
Yeah, got it. The builders weren’t responsive on email. Every now and then you’ll get the phone call eventually. So that’s one thing I would recommend is don’t give up. Sometimes six, eight months later, they’ll be like, hey, I got that email and they’ll call you. I got a greater response from property managers right away. But basically, I just printed stuff off Google and started a checklist of who I contacted. Yeah.

Will Hanke (07:36)
Okay.

Nice.

Yeah. So in my world, we call that scraping. So you just scrape together a work of. Yeah. I love that. That’s great. So what what strategies have you kind of employed that have helped you compete against some of those larger dealers franchises around your area?

Mike Stolte (07:55)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, definitely not having high operating costs allows me to give a little better pricing. And then also our response rate is quicker.

And honestly, the market here, there’s enough work right now here in town, in this market in Bozeman, that there’s enough food to feed everyone, if that makes sense. When you get into, go on, I didn’t mean to cut you off.

Will Hanke (08:34)
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

No, you’re good. Did, do you find yourself going up against those guys very often or when somebody contacts you, have they kind of already made their decision?

Mike Stolte (08:46)
Well, it’s gotten a little more tight recently in the last year just because building has slowed and increase in blinds companies. Blinds companies have increased. But usually what we’re really good at is once we get that phone call and get in the customer’s home, we have a 70 % close rate. So that’s what we’re really good at. The biggest challenge for us is getting the phone to ring. But once we do, we’re good.

Will Hanke (09:03)
OK, great.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about getting the phone to ring. You mentioned radio and you’re starting to do a little digital marketing. What do you, what is your, what is your plan there?

Mike Stolte (09:27)
Can you say that one more time, Will? I’m sorry.

Will Hanke (09:30)
Yeah, sorry about that. So you mentioned that you’re doing a little bit of radio and you’re also doing some digital marketing. What do you what is your plan on the digital marketing side? Like where are you starting?

Mike Stolte (09:40)
got it. I’m working with a company called Distinkly Montana and they do digital marketing. We just started it. I intentionally did it in the spring because usually we start to pick up now and I’m learning a lot about the geofencing. Like a lot of people know this probably from two years ago. I’m just learning about the geofencing target marketing online. And actually after this call, I got my first reporting to kind of see how we’re doing and to see if we need to

Will Hanke (09:58)
you

Mike Stolte (10:07)
to tweak anything. So I’m hoping that the in-person networking with the digital marketing, it’ll kind of help us take off here.

Will Hanke (10:10)
very cool.

That’s a good combo. Yeah, that’s great. So on the lines of marketing success, I know that you were voted the best window treatment company. Tell us a little bit more about what you did to earn that recognition.

Mike Stolte (10:32)
It’s so funny because I got like I knew that contest existed but I you know when your numbers on Google you get spam all day long and I got an email saying you’re the best window treatments in America or whatever or Montana and I thought it was fake and I emailed back I was like is this fake you just want to sell me marketing and then Chris the owner of the magazine responded back no it’s it’s real you were voted best and then he told me about it

how it went, but basically it was like all of Montana voted us the best window treatment in the state, which was pretty cool. And that’s a testament to all the people that we contract with, Jeremy, my employee, like we’re in a design store in Anaconda, Montana. Just everyone appreciates how we treat the customer.

Will Hanke (10:59)
Wow.

Yeah.

That’s great. And it’s a fantastic trust factor for people that are coming to your site and just coming across your business. That’s huge.

Mike Stolte (11:26)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yep.

Will Hanke (11:29)
Very cool. So you mentioned Chamber of Commerce. Are you what other community involvement are you guys doing?

Mike Stolte (11:36)
Well, we volunteer a lot just because we like volunteering, but also it is good networking. My family and I, do food drive once a year. We stand in front of the supermarket. We’ll wear the 406 blinds hats and just collect cans. Just honestly, just being part of the community like I have kids in sports.

Will Hanke (11:50)
I like that. Back to the whole grassroots thing

again, right?

Mike Stolte (11:55)
What’s that? Yeah, exactly. Sorry, you broke up for a second, Will, I’m sorry.

Will Hanke (12:00)
Yeah,

very cool. Oh, that’s OK. That’s OK. Yeah, very good. I love that you’re involved in the community and there is definitely some marketing advantages by doing that.

Mike Stolte (12:15)
Yep, absolutely.

Will Hanke (12:18)
So let’s talk about business cycles. What practical steps did you take to maintain stability when you were transitioning from the satellite TV industry to the window treatment industry?

Mike Stolte (12:30)
Yeah, it’s a great question.

I got pretty lucky. I had no idea what I was doing. I mean, I managed businesses before, but I never started a business from the ground and I didn’t want to go into debt. So I got really lucky and I just started a Craigslist ad. It cost me five bucks and like blinds and bozeman and I got a call from someone at Lowe’s and they were looking for someone to contract with to install their blinds. So

Will Hanke (12:54)
my gosh.

Mike Stolte (12:55)
So I got the Bozeman Lowe’s, got the Helena Montana Lowe’s and basically I just did manual labor for them. And it was a great way to learn all the products. And that created the stability of having income without having to to take out a business loan. And also that got me in customers homes, you know, my logo, because I’m an independent contractor for six blinds. I’m here to install. Got my name in the community. So that

Will Hanke (13:11)
Wow.

Mike Stolte (13:24)
was one revenue stream for me. We also have an installation division where we do a lot of the apartments in town, like 200 plus windows per building. That was another revenue stream. So that alone just brought income revenue into the company. And that allowed me to pump a little money into advertising and then start really focusing on sales. So we don’t have to do lows anymore.

We’re still doing the apartments because it’s just a great opportunity that honestly won’t always be there. And then now we’re doing, past two, three years, we’ve been doing just really well on sales.

Will Hanke (14:01)
That’s great. Love it. What challenges do you see in our industry right now and how are you adapting to stay ahead of those?

Mike Stolte (14:09)
Well, I apologize, I’m gonna curse on your show real quick and I’m gonna say the word tariff. So that is, and I went through three stages. Freaked Out was my first stage, Anger was my second, and my third stage right now is scheming and strategizing. that will, and that right now is a challenge and,

Will Hanke (14:16)
You

I like it.

Mike Stolte (14:33)
I’m already figuring out ways that I overcompensate for it and still be productive even with that.

Will Hanke (14:41)
Yeah.

So do you see yourself having to raise your prices?

Mike Stolte (14:45)
I’m trying not to, because that was one of the things that we take pride in. We probably will a little bit. What I could do is what I’m thinking. Well, one, I don’t want to reduce quality, right? Because you can go to two different vendors and probably get quite just like cheaper products. But then then you’re not delivering the quality which we’re known for. So.

I might just split the difference I’m thinking and then make up for it in volume. That’s the goal.

Will Hanke (15:12)
Okay. All right.

Do you see yourself looking at any, us made stuff that’s that’s comparable?

Mike Stolte (15:20)
I’m looking into that to see if, but I’m waiting on some samples and things to check out the quality before we launch anything like that. But there are companies out there that aren’t as, everyone’s affected to some point, because you know, fabrics and everything come from all over the world, but there are vendors that are affected less than others.

Will Hanke (15:27)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, as a marketing company, we’re seeing an increase in calls from manufacturers in the US because they see this as their opportunity to really start promoting that. yeah, very cool. Well, so let’s switch gears a little bit and talk about some fun things. What’s your favorite window treatment product or solution?

Mike Stolte (15:50)
I bet. Yeah, I bet.

it might be boring, but cellular shades. and that’s just because here in Montana and North Dakota is even colder. It’s either super colder in July, it’s super hot and they’re, they’re, they’re functional, fashionable. that’s probably my favorite solution just because of, the energy savings.

Will Hanke (16:06)
Okay.

All right.

Yeah, what about your least favorite?

Mike Stolte (16:28)
I think everyone will agree it’s vertical blinds.

Will Hanke (16:32)
Yep, yep, okay.

Mike Stolte (16:33)
Especially

the old school vinyl ones that break and seem to have static electricity for everything in the house.

Will Hanke (16:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, we bought our house 16 years ago, I think. And there’s vertical blinds over the basement sliding glass door. And I think there’s like three or four of them that are still hanging there. The rest of them have all broken. And I’m assuming they’re in the trash. I don’t know where they went.

Mike Stolte (16:52)
Exactly.

Yeah

Will Hanke (17:01)
That’s

cool. Tell us the story about how you landed the Costco truck contract while you were in Spain.

Mike Stolte (17:07)
yeah, well, Graber. I had my best year a few years ago. We’ve been in business six years and about the third year and that was my best year to date. And then with Graber, they’ll they do trips. I’m sure a lot of listeners have heard of this. A lot of the companies do it. And so we got to go to Spain, brought my wife. It was just an amazing trip. And. They do like this farewell.

farewell dinner the last night where you kind of drink wine. They had Spanish dancers everywhere. It’s like amazing food. And come to find out I was sitting next to the lady that runs all 600 Costco contracts. So we just got to talking and it was just about like…

personal stuff, my daughter’s an athlete, her daughter was an athlete, just got to know each other, got to know my wife. And I just reached out to her when I got back saying, hey, there any way I can get into a Costco? Because on that event too, I met a lot of people that were Costco dealers and they said it’s just a really good opportunity to really build your business.

Will Hanke (18:11)
That’s amazing. So just the fact that you followed up afterwards, I think really helped you out there.

Mike Stolte (18:17)
Yeah, absolutely. And you never know anywhere or anytime in life who you’re sitting next to or who you’re talking to.

Will Hanke (18:26)
Yeah, yeah, that’s a cool story. I love that. And the Costco stuff is going well for you now, I guess.

Mike Stolte (18:33)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we’re in Bismarck and it’s going well.

Will Hanke (18:38)
That’s great. That’s good. We’ve got a lot of clients that have Costco relationships as well. So we know that’s a big part of growth for a lot of businesses.

Mike Stolte (18:46)
Yeah, no, absolutely. And you can’t go wrong with Costco.

Will Hanke (18:50)
Yeah, yeah. So since you started 406, tell me about how you approach consultations and installs and how maybe that’s evolved over time.

Mike Stolte (19:01)
Yeah, it hasn’t changed much.

Usually I’ll before I go. I’ll just kind of get a feel for what the customer is looking for. A lot of times they do know, especially with the Internet and all the availability to to looking at products. So they kind of have an idea of what they want. So then I’m not walking in blind. And usually I’ll just. Kind of ask what their needs are, kind of look at the samples.

And then I just like to let them have the book for a minute because sometimes there’s a couple different types of customers and you kind of have to learn how to read the room too. So that’s why there’s no clear cut. But some people want you to hold every sample up for them. And some people just kind of want to be alone with the book. So you kind of just read the room. And if they want to be alone for the book with the book, I’ll say, hey, do you mind if I go measure, go measure and then come back in and kind of see where we’re at.

It hasn’t really changed much. For measuring though, especially doing all the apartments, what I did learn, it’s very important to have a routine and do it the same way every single time. So we always start, and everyone on my staff measures the same way. We always enter the house, start on the left and do the whole house from left to right.

Will Hanke (20:19)
Okay. That’s great. That’s smart. Then you know you won’t miss anything, right?

Mike Stolte (20:25)
Yeah, exactly. Even though every now and then we still do miss the bathroom, but we’re to.

Will Hanke (20:27)
You

Yeah.

Fair enough, fair enough. So

it sounds like a lot like me, you like procedures, know, getting those systems in place. It’s a big part of growing a business, obviously. When it came to your expansion to Bismarck, what processes would you recommend somebody who’s maybe in an expansion position? What should they focus on first?

Mike Stolte (20:54)
My biggest concern was inventory because you don’t want to lose your blinds. I mean, that’s your bread and butter. So one thing that that really is working out well for us and it cost me 300 bucks, it’s 300 bucks a year, is I just essentially rented a box at the UPS store. so what’s great is all my blinds for North Dakota go to that UPS store. My installer can bring a key, pick up the blinds and deliver the blinds.

And that’s one way of keeping your costs down too. I didn’t have to go out and buy a warehouse or anywhere to accept shipments. So that was a really good process.

Will Hanke (21:23)
wow.

Yeah, I like that. And I had a UPS box years and years ago now. But the thing I really liked about them was you could call them and ask if there was anything in there, you know, and if not, you don’t waste your time going, which is cool.

Mike Stolte (21:47)
Yeah, exactly.

And they have progressed a little bit. I’ll get a text when I get inventory, which is great, too. So it’s great. Yeah. And they’re always happy to see me because they can’t wait for me to get my big blind boxes out of their place.

Will Hanke (21:52)
that’s fantastic.

yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess

that shows how long ago it was that I had mine.

Mike Stolte (22:05)
Hahaha

Will Hanke (22:08)
Very cool. Very cool. I want to do something called myth or fact with you. We’ve been doing this on a couple of different episodes now. Is this a myth or a fact? New homeowners are your primary market.

Mike Stolte (22:13)
Okay.

Well, if it was today, and I’m kind of cheating, because I’m not giving you a straight answer, but today would be myth. Four years ago, I would say fact.

Will Hanke (22:36)
Okay, tell me more.

Mike Stolte (22:37)
Well, four years ago, people were still buying homes. Now, so it was all new construction. But now since the interest rates have gone up a little bit, a lot of people are staying in their existing homes and upgrading. So we’ve been doing a lot more upgrades the past year.

Will Hanke (22:49)
OK, interesting.

OK. OK, focusing on the upgrade side.

Very cool. So here’s another one. Premium clients only come from high end neighborhoods.

Mike Stolte (23:05)
that’s a myth.

Will Hanke (23:08)
Okay, tell me about that.

Mike Stolte (23:10)
Well, I guess it depends how I end, but like we have like high, high end and that can be like really time consuming, right? So you get one job that’s consuming a lot of your time or I can do four or five, three to four bedroom single family homes and knock them out and maybe make a little more money. And my time is not as demanded. So.

Will Hanke (23:36)
Okay.

Mike Stolte (23:38)
I would say that’s a myth.

Will Hanke (23:40)
Yeah. So some of that comes back to your sales method, how good you are at sales and being able to maybe get them to upgrade a little bit.

Mike Stolte (23:49)
For sure, absolutely.

Will Hanke (23:51)
Yeah, I think that’s important. lot of people try to just focus on the couple very affluent parts of town and they might be hurting themselves when it comes to additional revenue by doing that.

Mike Stolte (24:03)
Yeah, I think so. especially if you like, like there’s a lot of products, because when you say premium customer, there’s the higher end products have great margins. So you can sell four windows of natural shades, you know, and that’s not really time consuming and make it a decent payday.

Will Hanke (24:19)
Yeah.

Yeah. And with everybody, like you said, in kind of upgrade mode versus getting a new home, that helps with the entire upsell process as well.

Mike Stolte (24:27)
Sure. Yeah.

Yep, absolutely.

Will Hanke (24:36)
Yeah, I like that. So what are some of your proven techniques when it comes to pricing and presenting the window treatments to ensure that you still have decent margins, but you’re also providing value?

Mike Stolte (24:48)
Yeah, that’s a really good question. I think the most important key to that is just your closing ratio. That’s gonna tell you whether or not you’re too high, too low. Like you don’t want 99 % because that means maybe your price is a little too low. If you’re at 30%, your price might be a bit high. So that’s why we like 60, 70%. And it’s not always price that affects whether or not a customer goes with you, but it is a good indicator.

Will Hanke (25:00)
Yeah. Yep.

Mike Stolte (25:16)
So I say from my experience, if you’re in the 60 to 70 % range, that’s really good. And that probably means you’re priced appropriately.

Will Hanke (25:17)
Yeah.

great.

Yeah, how often do you calculate that number?

Mike Stolte (25:32)
I look at, well, you mean my closing ratio? Yeah, I look at that quite often. I would say at least once a quarter, a lot of times monthly. It doesn’t take long to kind of take a peek at it and see how you’re doing. Because I think that’s an indicator of the health of your business.

Will Hanke (25:35)
Yeah.

OK.

100%. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s always good to see those trends and identify them before they continue to trend in the wrong direction.

Mike Stolte (25:50)
Yeah.

Yep, absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Will Hanke (26:00)
Yeah, I like that. That’s pretty smart. Keeping keeping track on your overall conversion rate. Now for that, do you just consider booked appointments versus people that said yes?

Mike Stolte (26:11)
I do, and I have two separate ones because I do Costco and then I do mine and then I will break it down per rep too.

What was the question again? What did you say? Well,

Will Hanke (26:23)
Yeah, do

you typically calculate that by appointments set divided by total people that said yes or whatever the matter? Yeah.

Mike Stolte (26:30)
Thank you. I lost my train of thought in mid explanation. I do

it once we’re in the home. So quotes, quoted jobs versus sales. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Will Hanke (26:36)
Okay.

versus all. OK.

Yeah, that’s good. Some people are counting every single lead, like every phone call, everything that comes in, which I think is good, you know, because those are all still raised hands. But that’s a different type of metric that is obviously going to have a lower close rate.

Mike Stolte (26:59)
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s not because a lot of times if the lead cancels, it’s probably not because of you. So yeah, I prefer the quotes for sales. Yeah.

Will Hanke (27:07)
Very true.

Yeah, makes sense. Yeah.

So how do you evaluate which growth opportunities to pursue as your business continues to grow?

Mike Stolte (27:20)
just looking at it all the time.

What’s been great for the past six years for us is it’s kind of just grown organically. Where Jeremy, he helps me cover the western part of the state. And if you look at Butte, Montana, he could shoot over to Missoula, to Helena, basically all within two hours. So he can help me cover a lot of ground. And then I’m over here in Bozeman. I have a rep here too. We’re in a very key location.

So we can shoot to a lot of different places in the state and that kind of happened organically. And that’s kind of just how Montana is. It’s kind of spread out.

Will Hanke (27:53)
Yeah.

Mike Stolte (27:59)
So our growth did just happen organically. A lot of times the market will dictate where you wanna go to next. So.

Will Hanke (28:10)
Sure. Yeah.

Yeah, and of course, the building, know, where people are building, where people are not building. Yeah, that definitely directs the train a little bit.

Mike Stolte (28:16)
For sure. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And in our place, the single family homes hopefully will pick up again here pretty quick. I it’s still growing. It’s just not like what it was. So.

Will Hanke (28:32)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Well, listen, thank you so much for being on today. I’ve got a couple of different bonus questions for you before we wrap up. And one of my favorite questions really is, what trends do you see in the window treatment industry right now? And how can business owners stay ahead of those?

Mike Stolte (28:41)
Yeah, absolutely.

I think just home automation is coming. I remember, because I used to work for a cell phone company when they first came out with the smartphone. And I remember saying to myself, like, who’s going to want to be able to be contact 24 seven of their life? And I was wrong. That just obviously took off.

Will Hanke (29:11)
you

Mike Stolte (29:19)
And I kind of see home automation as that because some people might say who just wants to tell their shade to open, right? But I feel it’s coming. It’s coming. And that’s we’re trying to be. Jeremy, my installer on view is a motorized expert, understands all of that. The Google Home, Apple, all of that stuff. That’s the next trend. And that’s how I want to stay ahead of the curve.

Will Hanke (29:25)
Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that as a home automation nerd, I already tell a specific person, I won’t say her name, but ask her to open my mind. She’ll start talking if I do.

Mike Stolte (29:53)
Yeah.

Exactly.

Will Hanke (29:58)
So another question for you, is there a window treatment trend that you secretly dislike but your clients seem to love?

Mike Stolte (30:06)
They’re the same, the home automation.

Will Hanke (30:08)
Okay.

Mike Stolte (30:11)
But it’s one of those things once you learn it and you start to do it, it is pretty cool. My wife will tell you I’m a little old school. I can’t stand that we have a smart dryer.

but that’s where we’re going.

Will Hanke (30:23)
Yeah,

that is. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I’m a bit of a nerd on that side. If there’s something I could do to save save me from having to get up, you know, something not great for my cardio, but that’s OK. So, again, thank you so much for your time. If somebody wants to learn more about 406 blinds or connect with you, what’s the best way to do that?

Mike Stolte (30:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, my phone number is 406-600-3582 and all our info is at 406blinds.com

Will Hanke (30:55)
Awesome. We’ll also put all the links and everything in the show notes, of course. So if anybody wants to contact you, they certainly can. So last question, what are the three most important business lessons you’ve learned since you started 406 that could help somebody else listening to this?

Mike Stolte (31:12)
like maybe someone first starting out you think or,

Will Hanke (31:14)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike Stolte (31:18)
One is don’t give up. It’s so easy for challenges that are gonna come, problems that are gonna come to get down and say I’m defeated. But I would just turn those challenges into opportunities and a lot of times you come out on top and then you’ll know more and be equipped to handle it better the next time. I would say that’s number one.

Number two, get really good accounting software to calculate every single penny that’s coming in and out. We’re not volunteering here for free, right? We’re trying to make money. So I use QuickBooks. I love it. It combines everything into one little spot. And I know everything that’s coming in, everything that’s going out. And along those same lines, it also helps a lot with taxes too, which can be another

Will Hanke (31:50)
Right.

Great tip.

Mike Stolte (32:05)
huge expense for your company.

Will Hanke (32:10)
Yeah, especially if you’re not ready for it, right?

Mike Stolte (32:12)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Will Hanke (32:14)
That can be

a quick lesson to learn and an unfortunate one.

Mike Stolte (32:19)
Yeah.

Will Hanke (32:21)
Very good. Well, listen, thank you again for your time. I really do appreciate you jumping on today, sharing some things with us. Any last words of wisdom, Mike?

Mike Stolte (32:31)
Just stay at it, stay positive. I think, like I said, turn challenges into opportunities. The one great thing about, I love being an entrepreneur, because I was salaried for 20 years, is rather than watching every pinch and every penny, excuse me, for my household budget, I love about being an entrepreneur. I just say, what do I need to do to make more? And that’s what I love about being an entrepreneur.

Will Hanke (32:57)
Yeah, that’s great. That’s great. Listen, thank you again for being on. I appreciate it. If you yeah, if you’re listening to this episode, really love it. Obviously, go check out our other episodes of Marketing Panes. Make sure to subscribe. We’re available on iTunes, all the different networks, and would love to love to have you listen to some future episodes as well. Again, thank you so much, Mike. Have a great day and we’ll see you soon.

Mike Stolte (33:01)
Thanks, Will. I appreciate it.

Yeah, thank you so much. Well, we’ll see you. Bye now.

Will Hanke (33:25)
Awesome. All right, that was great.

Guests Profile:Joe Kendall

President – Made in the Shade Eastern Shore

Owns Kendall furniture , Made in the shade dealer went from 58th place, to 5th place, to second place and in 2024 #1 Volume dealer in North America

Ryan Gilberts

Owner of Shaded Window Coverings

With over a decade in the window covering industry, Ryan launched Shaded Window Coverings in 2022 to bring his vision to life. Starting as an installer and moving into sales, he quickly mastered the business and took the leap to entrepreneurship. Now, nearly three years later, his company is thriving, recently securing a six-figure project for 1,900 shades in a new apartment complex.

Other Notes/Links:

To learn more about

Joe Kendall visit:

MITS Eastern Shore

Ryan Gilberts visit:

Shaded Window Coverings

pssst…. want to be a guest on the show?

Listen to other episodes

Video

Click here to display Transcript

Transcript

Will Hanke (00:00)
All right, everyone. Welcome to another episode of marketing panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their strengths, about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today is our Q2 preview. We’re going to talk about what happened in Q1. We’re going to talk about what we think is coming up in Q2. I’ve got two guests with some great insights that I’m excited to interview.

First of all, we got Joe Kendall, president

of Made in the Shades Eastern Shore. Joe owns Kendall Furniture, a Made in the Shade dealership. He went from 58th place to fifth place in the Made in the Shade franchise, then second place, and in 2002, 2024 became the number one volume dealer in North America. Joe, thanks for being on the show today.

Ryan Gilberts (00:31)
Okay.

Joe Kendall (00:40)
you

You’re very welcome. We’re happy to be here.

Will Hanke (00:57)
Thank you.

We’ve also got Ryan Gilbert’s Ryan owns Shaded Window Coverings in Montana. Shaded Shaded Window Covering started in May 2022 after Ryan was working for some other businesses in the window covering industry over the last 10 years. He wanted to. He first started in the industry as a part time installer, then moved to lead installer position and eventually a hybrid role of installer and salesperson.

Ryan Gilberts (00:58)
you

Will Hanke (01:27)
Now almost

three years later, there’s really no turning back. He’s just started his largest sixth figure project, 1900 shades for an apartment building under construction. Ryan, thank you for joining as well.

Ryan Gilberts (01:39)
Thanks, Will.

Will Hanke (01:40)
1900 so you’re going be a little bit busy I guess for at least the next couple days right?

Ryan Gilberts (01:44)
Fortunately, it’s being built out in stages.

Will Hanke (01:46)
Awesome. Yeah, that’s great. Congrats on that. So I want to start by talking about some different industry trends. What emerging trends are you guys seeing in the industry right now? And how can other window treatment dealers kind of align with these trends to stay competitive?

Joe Kendall (02:02)
Ryan, think what you’re doing is, Ryan and I spoke a little bit beforehand, Will, and we really love that the exterior market is exploding. you need to make sure you’re talking to your clients because they don’t know all the cool things you know as far as that goes. I was talking to Ryan and we were discussing how you might go into a customer wants to get some roller shades up on four windows that are consecutive.

Ryan Gilberts (02:12)
Yeah.

Joe Kendall (02:28)
And you leave the house with an exterior roller shade motorized. their beautiful in-tort, their trim on the inside is left alone. It’s gorgeous. And they can have that true builder look, but yet get the results they need when they need them. I think the exterior, and people, great too. I think they expect to pay more for exterior blinds.

And it’s with the warranties that some of these manufacturers are offering, it’s really a great way to go.

Ryan Gilberts (02:55)
Yeah, I got to agree on that too, but.

Will Hanke (02:57)
Yeah, I like that.

Ryan, are you seeing something similar?

Ryan Gilberts (02:59)
So yeah, I mean I like the exterior products They’re definitely a little bit more sleek, but they’re definitely a touch more expensive than some people anticipate But the cool thing is there’s a vast majority of dealers or I should say vendors that are starting to manufacture those and get into the market so I Don’t think price points all gonna be all that

Will Hanke (03:21)
I know when we talked with some of our guests on the Q1 podcast that we had talked about, they mentioned the luxury buyers are really popping up more. Are you guys seeing that as well?

Ryan Gilberts (03:32)
Absolutely.

Joe Kendall (03:33)
yeah. Yeah. Our average ticket for the last six months is up about 15%.

Will Hanke (03:38)
Okay.

Joe Kendall (03:38)
You know, we were in the $4,400 average ticket. We’re now in that a hair over 5,000, 5,200 area, which I think is just people are buying nicer stuff.

Will Hanke (03:48)
Yeah, I think that’s a great point. when I started in this industry as the marketing guy, about seven years ago, we niche down specifically just to the window treatment and awning industry. The average job was 2,500, 3,000. So obviously part of that is, I guess you could say inflation, but also I think it’s just people are buying better quality stuff.

Ryan Gilberts (04:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Kendall (04:11)
And, you know, there was always… Go ahead, Ryan, I’m sorry.

Ryan Gilberts (04:11)
Absolutely.

no, I was just saying absolutely. But I would probably say a year ago, I kind of crossed over that bridge with Hunter Douglas and became one of their dealers. But I will say that going into that bridge and are going into that realm of the market and being able to offer those very high quality products, my ticket sales have definitely increased tremendously. And I’m also getting a lot of those larger ticket deals and showing them.

The cool stuff, I guess you can say.

Joe Kendall (04:40)
You know, and I train, we have two full-time salespeople. I still train them and remind them of the famous, you know, Bloomingdale’s three bread maker stories about a good, better, best versus just a good or a best. And, you know, I encourage my people that when they’re presenting a product, and let’s say they’re talking about a Roman shade or they’re talking about a roller shade, and you pop out a Hunter Douglas vignette, you know, I’m a big believer in telling the client straight up,

hey, this is a more expensive product. There’s a decent chance, you the average salesperson might think, God, they’re going to be bummed. But really they go, cool, this is what I want. And I always like to tell people, because obviously if a roller shade was $49, we’d sell everybody we talked to. But not being afraid of the more expensive products and sharing with your customer, hey look.

Ryan Gilberts (05:18)
Okay.

.

Joe Kendall (05:32)
This is

a more expensive product, but let me tell you why and what you get. And then it’s like, well, this makes perfect sense. selling higher up, it takes work. But if you do it right, it really, really can pay off.

Ryan Gilberts (05:37)
Okay.

I gotta agree with you on that. Definitely education with your customers or clients is I think gonna make you stand above the crowd and definitely show your worth and then also get those larger ticket items.

Joe Kendall (05:56)
Definitely, definitely.

Will Hanke (05:57)
I love the idea of upselling, right? You already got them on the hook. Now if you can walk out with 10 % more than you thought you’d get or something like that, it’s a fantastic growth strategy for your business.

Joe Kendall (06:08)
You know, I’m going to share a quick story if I could, Will. When I first started selling 30 years, 35 years ago, I was selling roofs and my closing ratio was excellent, but my gross profit was just barely average. So the owner says, Joe, I want you to go out to dinner tonight with Zeke, who’s our highest profit guy. makes a thousand dollars or more than you a week. He’s going to teach you how to sell higher. And I was like, my God, this is going to change everything.

We go out to happy hour drinking, long story short, we get to midnight, we’re at 7-Eleven, we’ve had some cocktails. And I said, Zeke, we’re gonna be in deep trouble, you didn’t train me tonight. And we ran up the owner’s credit card. So Zeke can barely stand up and he asked the cashier, says, for a napkin and a pen. And I said, sure. So Zeke goes, here you go, on a 20 square roof, what’s your opening price? I said, well, I usually start around 4,200.

Zeke burps up some beer and says, okay, try it again, but this time instead of writing a four down, write a five. And the moral of story is just open up a little higher and you’ll get more, it’ll make a higher sale. It’s that simple. Just start a little higher. And I always remind people you can’t go up, but you can go down. So that’s one of my favorite training stories.

Will Hanke (07:17)
I love that you were able to write the night off on the.

Joe Kendall (07:19)
You

So.

Will Hanke (07:20)
Draining

Cool, that’s great. I love to hear that so Quick disclaimer both of you guys are clients of window treatment marketing pros So you guys are obviously, you know doing the SEO stuff doing the paid ads. I wanted to talk a little bit more about professional connections Local networking those kinds of things. What are you guys doing in that area to help generate leads and maybe even longer-term relationships?

Joe Kendall (07:49)
Go ahead, Ryan.

Ryan Gilberts (07:50)
To generate leads, mean, I’m talking to the sphere of people that I hang out with. I’m pretty fortunate with the area in Montana that I’m at. We have a lot more cattle than we do people. So the people that I’m dealing with are going to be a lot of business owners. The 1900 shade project that I got was due to one of my good buddies that is doing all the dirt work for this project. He just simply sent a text and said, who does all your shades?

call this guy. So it’s, really the sphere of people that I’m dealing with, but also kind of going back to what Joe was just saying about getting those higher ticket items, dealing with those larger, more expensive products. It’s actually the word of mouth of those people. You know, I’m, I’m giving them good, good solid products, great service, and they’re just talking to more people. As far as the marketing aspect goes that you can actually

pinpoint where your dollars are going. I still do local marketing. I don’t know if you guys have Valpac over on the East Coast or what have you, but Valpac is one of them. I am in with a lot of magazines for top realtors and also in magazines that just strictly market the top 1 % of homeowners in the area. And I also do TV commercials.

Joe Kendall (09:02)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s the old saying that, you know, half of my advertising works. I just don’t know which half, but I know this plug for Will, Will’s works. So without a doubt, one of the things I’m going to we’re talking to people in the industry. I simply for sake of a better term, pay off real estate agents that are sitting in a new neighborhood.

Will Hanke (09:02)
Okay, Joe.

Ryan Gilberts (09:12)
Yep.

Joe Kendall (09:23)
It’s just what I do. There’s a neighborhood and I went and talked to them and gave them. There’s a great restaurant company in town that has about 10 awesome restaurants. One gift card. I gave them each a $500 gift card. people might think that’s a lot, but all I got to do is get one purchase and I’m even. And I love giving that gift so big.

that now they feel guilty. Like they have to get me referrals now. You know, they’re the ones that are like, my God. So I love real estate agents. Word of mouth is the big thing. I love taking every service call that we should charge a hundred bucks for and not charging them and telling the people we should charge you. But if you get me a referral, you meet somebody who’s talking about window coverings, just make sure you pass my name along.

Ryan Gilberts (09:56)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Kendall (10:06)
Since you saved them 200 bucks, now they feel the guilt where they, gosh, we gotta find Joe a referral. So I love doing that. One thing too, this is gonna be the, well, the basketball going on. You’ve heard like, you know, the five star lock of the week, the team you have to bet on. Here’s my five star lock of the week, Will. Change how you respond to five star reviews. Don’t say thank you. Don’t say, well, obviously say thank you.

but use that review time, the response, to sell. Hey, we really love Tom the installer, he was great. Hey, that’s awesome. Tom, like all of our installers, is completely certified and has been with us for X amount of time. Tom’s been through four certifications in XYZ and loves his job. Thank you for mentioning him. So when people are reading that, they go, shit, these guys got good people. Or, wow, I love the shutters.

And don’t forget, all of our products have a lifetime warranty. So if you have a problem, please call us. Put in your responses to your Google reviews. Selling words, you know, hey, I’m so happy we could get that installed within your quick timeline. Oh, they do stuff quick. So people are reading their reviews, but they’re also going to review, read your responses. So that’s my 50 star pointer.

Will Hanke (10:56)
You

Joe Kendall (11:18)
I guess of this podcast is to change how you do your reviews and will do not use AI to do it for you. Be personal that you can be more personal. And again, though, you can you can sell. You got a chance because people are going to read reviews, so make them read stuff that you want to tell them. That’s all.

Will Hanke (11:35)
Yeah,

I love that it’s a missed opportunity if you just say thank you.

Ryan Gilberts (11:36)
Let me touch base on that.

Let me touch base on that review. I love it. I’m a very personable person when it comes to my reviews. give, you know, hey, Cheryl, thank you so much for the great review. It’s been extraordinary working with you, getting your automated roller shades or automated honeycomb shades up for you. But it’s also and I only have one of these a four star review. It’s how you respond to those.

I mean, so I’ve been in business for a short time. I, 2022 customer gave me a four star review because I, well, it freezes here and my spackle was frozen that morning to fill in the old screw holes of his vertical blind. That’s why I got a four star review. I responded back with, let me, let me come and earn that fifth star. He never, he never changed his review, but he’s bought four more times since then.

Joe Kendall (12:03)
Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

Ryan Gilberts (12:31)
stuff.

That fourth star haunts me.

Will Hanke (12:33)
That’s awesome. I love that. That’s great. And I love the idea of being personal about it, you know, and replying to each of those individually. AI can get a little dry on it. Obviously also an opportunity to use certain keywords and locations. You know, we really enjoyed installing the window treatments in your Chesterfield home, you know, something like that where it doesn’t violate any privacy type stuff, but

Joe Kendall (12:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

You

Will Hanke (12:59)
you do get the name of the place in there as well.

Joe Kendall (13:02)
Mention in the neighborhood, Will. Good point, good point.

Will Hanke (13:04)
Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So I want to talk a little bit about expansion. So when it comes to reaching out in your particular area, you know, have a little bit of an advantage because you’re located in that area. And especially Ryan, I’m assuming in Montana, cities are maybe a little bit further apart than they are for Joe. Right. So so how do you handle

expansion or driving a certain distance tell us about that.

Ryan Gilberts (13:31)
Yeah, I I probably cover a two hour span from my location around. So I try to group all my appointments. Sometimes it works out, but I mean, hey, I’ll go over to this part of the neck of the woods and we’ll get a few appointments done that day. We’ll go over to next part of the neck of the woods.

So we’ll do that, but I mean, we’re getting a lot more. You can go into the bigger cities and I call them the cities, but you know, it’ll be a little bit more.

solid people like you can walk through neighborhoods and things like that still. It’s not, you know, you’re not going on a 40 acre ranch or a 3000 acre ranch and every every house that you go to. A lot of the communities that we’re in, they are going to be in your, would say eight, 900,000 to a million and a half dollar homes when they’re in neighborhoods like that. So

Will Hanke (14:15)
Yeah.

Ryan Gilberts (14:27)
They are typically a solid appointment.

Will Hanke (14:29)
I like that. I like how you stack them together, know, do a couple in one area. Yeah, especially when you’re traveling that far.

Joe Kendall (14:32)
Yeah, you have to,

Ryan Gilberts (14:32)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

For sure. For sure.

Will Hanke (14:38)
Yeah, Joe, what about you? Obviously, things are a little bit more compact in your area. I know you just added another location. Tell us about that.

Joe Kendall (14:42)
Yep, yep.

So we added a second location. The way our town is set up, our area is set up is we’re up against the Atlantic Ocean. So we do half circles. We don’t do full circles, you know? But there’s a really wealthy part, and I opened up on the street to that wealthy neighborhood area.

Will Hanke (14:56)
you

Joe Kendall (15:04)
with the idea of getting some stop in traffic and things like that. And we’re also showing higher end goods there. We’re not showing faux blinds in that location. So far so good. We’re making the so-called nut. But it’s like anything. It’s repetition, repetition, customers seeing and hearing about your name and so forth.

One nice thing I love about the Maiden the Shade is it’s purple and gray with a tint of yellow. So purple signs kind of stand out a little bit. But it’s a classic, you know.

A lot of people who are, nothing wrong with this, but who are trunk slammers and they want to go to that first store. You know, I was mentoring a Made in the Shade dealer and I was like, what hours are you going to be open before you expand? And they said, we’re going to go a nine to two and be closed on Saturday and Sunday. And my response was either going to be a retailer or you’re not going to be a retailer. And retailers are open seven days a week.

and depending on your town, till seven o’clock at night. And they’re like, oh, we don’t want to do all that. And I was like, well, then you don’t want to have a store. You don’t want to become a retailer. So I don’t know, if that was more what you were thinking about, like when to expand and so forth. For us, I looked at it like an advertising spend. It’s going to cost me $5,000 a month to have that store.

with the people and everything and I figured well hell $5,000 a month a billboard is in my neighborhood is $1,500 a month so it’s like buying two or three billboards but I’ll have a physical person I’ll be on the main drag so there’s a lot to think about before expansion obviously but

Will Hanke (16:40)
Sure.

Yeah, but there’s the nice thing about the window treatment industry is the average job is fairly high as we mentioned earlier. So it doesn’t take a lot to make that money back.

Joe Kendall (16:50)
No, no, no.

Will Hanke (16:51)
That’s great. Yeah. So I want to talk to you guys a little bit about partnerships, collaborations. Is there anything that you guys are doing that would be beneficial to the listeners around similar to what you said, Joe, with the real estate people in anything else like that?

Joe Kendall (17:08)
If there’s new construction in your area, get after those agents that are sitting in the house. That’s your bread and butter. Hey, hi Will, it’s nice to meet you. How long you been with NVR Homes? Hey, where’s your place? Do you have plantation shutters? Would you like to get plantation shutters? And I always say, hey, know, my manufacturer gives me some leeway on some sample products.

I love to put some sample products in 10 of your windows. We’ve done that before for people and put plantation shutters in their house. That was in the neighborhood that we got 23 jobs from. It’s just the best $3,000 I ever spent. So I’m a big believer in the real estate agents. I’m a big believer in having someone like Will do your Google buy.

I respond, Will will ask me a question, and I’ll say, Will, you’re the pro, buddy. It’s working so far. Don’t ask me. You got that covered. But that’s my one thing I would say is that’s where it’s at. a $100 gift card or a $50 gift card doesn’t do anything. Go to $500. That’s my tip of the day, second tip of the day.

Will Hanke (18:10)
You

Ryan Gilberts (18:11)
What? I’ll go off that. There’s an organization here in town called MOR for Kids, so Missoula Organization of Realtors, and it’s a nonprofit for kids. And I am the only window covering person in that organization. And I reach 800 realtors. There’s 800 realtors in the Missoula account.

Joe Kendall (18:26)
Oof.

Ryan Gilberts (18:28)
It’s just insane. But I’m the one window covering guy and I’m there competing in all their nonprofit organizations and it’s fun for me. We do a charity kickball tournament. We do a charity golf tournament and we do a winter gala. I get the most donations in the kickball tournament. My team typically always wins in the golf tournament. And last year,

I spent the most at the charity and I got the most awards.

So that’s kind of how I shotgun blast my name out there.

Will Hanke (18:55)
Fantastic.

Joe Kendall (18:58)
Yep, I love it.

Will Hanke (18:59)
That’s really cool. love that collaboration.

Ryan Gilberts (18:59)
They all call me Shady Ryan

for a reason.

Joe Kendall (19:01)
I love it. like that. Shady Ryan. I like that.

Will Hanke (19:04)
That’s great. And

at the end of the day, you’re supporting something, right? So there’s that whole PR side of things too, where you can get a little bit of that out there.

Ryan Gilberts (19:12)
Exactly.

Joe Kendall (19:12)
That’s, and

Ryan’s right on with, what’s your Realtor Association name, Ryan?

Ryan Gilberts (19:18)
M-O-R.

Joe Kendall (19:18)
The moon. OK. So we have the Coastal Association of Realtors. Here you go. Every town you’re in has an association of realtors and you can be what’s called a whatever kind of member you are, Ryan. It’s not accessory member, but it has a name. That means you’re not a realtor. Thank you very much, Ryan. Yeah, you’re an affiliate member. you get and with that, Ryan, you also get right emails, phone numbers for everybody, every realtor in town.

Ryan Gilberts (19:19)
Mozilla organization of realtors.

an affiliate.

Yep, exactly.

Joe Kendall (19:43)
So

lots of marketing you can do with that.

Will Hanke (19:45)
Wow, that’s awesome. So cool, we talked to… Go ahead.

Ryan Gilberts (19:46)
and also building industry associations.

Joe Kendall (19:49)
Yes, yes, yes. Ryan, I’m gonna get off this phone, off this podcast here, and I’m gonna figure out how I can get a commercial job like that. My biggest commercial job so far is 17 roller shades at a restaurant. But that kind of stuff gets me excited. That gets me wound up.

Ryan Gilberts (20:04)
Yeah, yeah,

we got three more coming in.

Will Hanke (20:08)
I saw you.

Joe Kendall (20:09)
Ugh.

Will Hanke (20:09)
That’s

great. Joe, saw your brain ticking back there when he said it.

Joe Kendall (20:12)
my god, it’s crazy. You can actually see my brain right here. There

it is.

Will Hanke (20:16)
Yeah, so cool. talked about kind of collaborations and partnerships. Let’s switch and talk about the customer. What do you guys do to help build those relationships when it comes to getting into the home or even before you get into the home?

Joe Kendall (20:29)
So I’ll go first this time, OK. So the like to send.

Ryan Gilberts (20:30)
I’ll start. just kidding, Joe. You got it.

No, no, go ahead.

Will Hanke (20:32)
Ha!

Joe Kendall (20:38)
a video or two. If it’s a shutter job, we like to send a video or two. Like to send a link to our five star reviews beforehand. And then we really try, we do try to give a gift. Right now we’re giving away, it costs us about 40 bucks, but it’s a custom made cardboard box. I might have shown this to you well. It’s a custom made cardboard box, purple and yellow paper, and it has four rocks glasses in it, and they’re each engraved.

a palm tree, a setting sun. I can’t remember the other two. But given that as a gift and really, you you’re not going to get anything unless you ask for it. And when we give that gift, we like to say, hey, look, anybody ever talks about us, you know? And the thing is, is the kind of cool thing is anytime they get those glasses out and they have guests over, hopefully all come up in conversation. So that’s what we’re really trying to, you know, I’ve come up with the idea of

A $10 Starbucks card, if they lose that, who cares? But something that has value in their eyes, that’s what we’re going after for a gift when we ask those customers for the review and for the referrals.

Will Hanke (21:39)
That’s great. Love that. Ryan, how about you?

Ryan Gilberts (21:41)
So yeah, so as far as like gifts go, do like, if you know of anyone that needs a window coverings, I’ll do, I give a little gift card or not a gift card, but a little postcard. And there’s three options, like a, like a $50 gift card to Amazon or a hundred dollar gift card to a steak house that I did all their shades in.

or I have another a hundred dollar gift card to another buddy that owns a tap house. So, kind of something like that. It’s, it’s supporting my customers already and also trying to get more customers out there. But before I get into a house, the biggest thing that I’ve come to find out, because I’ll tell you guys, cause you see me on a screen. I’m six foot five and 285 pounds. I’m not a small person. So,

I always send an appointment reminder to people with this ugly mug and saying, Hey, I’m going to be at your doorstep. It takes a lot of hesitation off of people.

Will Hanke (22:34)
You

Joe Kendall (22:37)
Do you have like a height thing? Like you’re in a 7-Eleven doorway showing them how tall you are.

Ryan Gilberts (22:42)
You know I should, but we don’t need that.

Will Hanke (22:45)
Yeah.

Joe Kendall (22:45)
goodness, I love it, I love it.

Will Hanke (22:45)
That’s

I love the tips that you guys have shared. think those are great. Ryan, you mentioned the Amazon card. If somebody came to my house selling something and they mentioned that, I guarantee my wife would be all over that. I mean, she’s just ordering stuff every day off of there. So it’s interesting how far that can go for not a big spend. All right. So one other thing I wanted to ask about challenges.

Ryan Gilberts (22:58)
Right. Yep.

Will Hanke (23:09)
and maybe some solutions. What kind of challenges are you guys seeing out there when you’re trying to build those connections, grow your network, and for other people listening, maybe what are some ways that they could overcome those?

Ryan Gilberts (23:21)
So I can go because I’m the youngest probably in the industry on this podcast right now as far as being in business. My biggest thing is obviously competing. Obviously competing against the bigger names. Fortunately, I don’t have a made in the shade in my local area, but I do have that other cheap fish company that hasn’t

I wouldn’t say hasn’t stepped up in the realm of quality and customer service. But I always get with the realtors or with this other person like, hey, we had such and such company already do our shades. We already had this company do them. I already know this guy. So I mean, that’s my biggest hesitation. But then I come in and say, hey, you know what? That’s actually a shade that we also are a dealer for.

I can get that replaced for you. No problem. Get you a warranty issue taken care of. No problem. Because my competition didn’t want to call back or show up for a warranty appointment.

Will Hanke (24:14)
Great. Joe, how about you?

Joe Kendall (24:15)
lost them.

So one of the things that that one of my salespeople came to me with and were like, you know, how do I, know, bigger is better. Bigger means that they have more buying power. And I said, you know how to handle that, that question right there? How can I compete against 23rd day blinds or how can I compete against those guys? If you’re if you’re a small

and company you say, know what, it’s really, people probably wonder how can I compete against those big guys? And be honest, say, yeah, they probably buy the blinds for less than I do. But last time I checked, we don’t have a regional sales manager or regional divisional manager. We don’t have a regional vice president. We don’t have an office in Chicago. We don’t have this. We don’t have that. You know, I pay the same kind of bills they pay, but mine have a lot less zeros. So if you want someone that really knows the industry.

Ryan Gilberts (24:56)
and

Joe Kendall (25:07)
and can really

save you money, work with someone small and local. We’re here for you. And once you learn that objection, to get over that objection, the sky’s the limit. And that’s something that really, I always tell our people, remind them that there’s only six of us in the company. We don’t take retreats to Orlando to talk about how we’re going to sell this year. We might go out to

Ryan Gilberts (25:16)
you

.

Joe Kendall (25:32)
Alpac Steakhouse, but you know, that’s about it. But anyway, but that’s something that I think that people should get over when they’re a smaller company. When you’re a one person operation, is just remind them you don’t have regional vice presidents and director of sales and all that crud. So that’s the biggest thing I think is because that’s what they’re selling against you as. they’re so small. They’re so small, they can’t compete against us. That’s what they’re

saying. So say the exact opposite.

Will Hanke (25:59)
Yeah, I like that. When it comes to challenges, how about technology? How does that work in your world?

Joe Kendall (26:05)
Brian, lead boomerang, right buddy?

Ryan Gilberts (26:07)
Well I’m not really into the lead boomerang to be honest with you. I have used it. It’s just another Another thing I kind of I do solo tech and QuickBooks so You know, I still have the lead boomerang and it still transfers over into the solo tech I’m just not in lead boomerang daily

Joe Kendall (26:19)
Okay.

Ryan Gilberts (26:28)
I I’m a two man operation. I’m very mobile. I don’t have a storefront. I do have a office, but I’m not out at every day. So I’m out on the streets. If I’m in the office, I’m not really making money to be honest with you.

Joe Kendall (26:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me, the lead boomerang is everything. I can look at it. I can see calls that come in. With the lead boomerang customer tracking, I spend about three to five minutes in the morning updating our opportunity board. Today so far, we’ve gotten five phone calls. They’re all new leads.

Will Hanke (26:43)
How about you, Joe?

Joe Kendall (27:01)
with using lead boomerang and letting customers know, hey, the product’s been ordered. Hey, the product’s been shipped. Hey, it’s here. We have totally sliced and diced the incoming phone calls. Where’s my blind dad? was wondering when I was one. I was just curious. Those days are over for us. And I also have a second job running a furniture store.

So, and believe it or not, we actually, and this might sound terrible, but it’s the way it is. We found out when we got lead boomerang up and running with the opportunity page, we let our receptionist go. Just didn’t need her. Just didn’t need her. She was answering five calls a day saying, hey Joe, this customer wants to get an estimate. So I can handle five calls a day, you know, but we were getting 20 to 40 and so forth.

You know, it’s process to build it and to understand it, how it goes. And I’m a firm believer that I’m probably using 30 to 40 % of what lead boomerang can do. Whereas with my iPhone, I’m probably using 5 % or with my laptop, I’m using 5%. So I really feel like I’m getting a lot out of lead boomerang. And I have a State of the Union call with Will here on Friday, and we’re going to

Ryan Gilberts (28:04)
you

Joe Kendall (28:18)
spend some time

and to make sure I’m doing everything I should be doing with lead boomerang to get the most out of it. You know, we’re on a roll. We’re getting three to five, five star a week. And, you know, all of our business is not what I like. It’s what Google likes. Right, right. Well, does Google like this? Let’s do it. So that’s the biggest thing. Our automated responses, people will have conversations with our automated responses. God bless them.

Ryan Gilberts (28:20)
.

Will Hanke (28:33)
That’s right.

Ryan Gilberts (28:38)
.

Joe Kendall (28:43)
You know, thanks so much. Glad to hear from you, Joe. Looking forward to seeing you soon. You know, and you’re like, okay. But anyway, no, that’s the big thing. And I think the CRM is everything nowadays. That’s how the younger people work. They want text messages. They don’t want to wait. They don’t like phone calls, you know. But so that’s the big thing. Good CRM.

Ryan Gilberts (28:47)
.

Will Hanke (28:46)
You

Ryan Gilberts (28:55)
and

Will Hanke (29:00)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Ryan will need to get you some, some training and get you in there doing more of the stuff. Be happy to do that with you.

Ryan Gilberts (29:06)
That’s what I was just going to

Joe Kendall (29:07)
Brian, close

are you to big sky? Or skiing out there?

Ryan Gilberts (29:09)
About three and a

half hours three and a half hours away.

Joe Kendall (29:12)
All right, well, maybe we’ll work, we’ll figure something out. I’ll come out there and ski and teach you how to use lead boomerang.

Will Hanke (29:19)
There you go.

Ryan Gilberts (29:20)
you know where Yellowstone was filmed,

Joe Kendall (29:22)
What’s that, sir?

Ryan Gilberts (29:23)
You know where Yellowstone was filmed?

Joe Kendall (29:24)
couldn’t hear ya. Yeah!

Ryan Gilberts (29:25)
Yeah, I’m like 20 minutes from that. Yeah.

Joe Kendall (29:27)
That’s you.

how cool is that? How cool is that? That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So.

Will Hanke (29:33)
Very cool. All right, well one

last question for you guys. And then I wanna get some last thoughts from you. But I’m interested in what do you see as kind of the future of window treatment industry, where we’re going, and what can other business owners do to prepare for what’s coming up in Q2 and for the rest of the year? As we look ahead, leveraging technology will be crucial; one tool that stands out is the marketing panes software overview, which can help streamline outreach and customer interactions. Emphasizing custom solutions and personalized service will set businesses apart in an increasingly competitive market. Additionally, staying ahead of industry trends and utilizing data analytics can provide valuable insights for strategic planning.

Joe Kendall (29:53)
Wow.

Will Hanke (29:53)
You

Joe Kendall (29:53)
Ryan, go ahead and look at your crystal ball first.

Ryan Gilberts (29:54)
Well,

Will Hanke (29:56)
Hahaha

Ryan Gilberts (29:56)
yeah, I think, well, not I think, but I’m fairly certain that automation is going to just be the whole way of the future. You you’re going to get rid of the pulley strings. You’re going to get the automation systems, the motorization systems that are going to be standard. You’re not going to have the continuous cord loops, the beaded chains. You’re going to just have motorization. And with that, you’re going to have different price point motorizations.

Hopefully they get rid of the wand systems, but I think that’s just going to be kind of the way of the future. Shoot even films, window films that are going to be, you know, the transparent to the tint. That’s going to be a little bit more standardized, I think, especially with the way the Supreme Court’s Yep.

Joe Kendall (30:33)
Partner with somebody. Partner

with somebody as soon as you can. Partner with a company. We have one, Delmarva Tent, and they give me leads and I give them leads. But yeah, definitely. Sorry for jumping in, Brian, but yeah, I love that tent story.

Ryan Gilberts (30:47)
Go ahead Joe, let’s see what you got.

Will Hanke (30:48)
That’s great, Joe,

how about you and your crystal ball?

Joe Kendall (30:50)
I’m right with Ryan. Anytime you can, I think we’re going to start getting phone calls, a lot more phone calls about this phone call. I’m building a house and I want to have automation in my house and I haven’t broke ground. What do I need to do? So I would become familiar with the low voltage talk, try to get on any type of, whether it’s Alta Hunter, Norman, any type of low voltage talk, be familiar with that because you’re to get that call.

And you don’t want to go, I think you guys got to run speaker wire. So I just want to have a little bit of backstory, being able to talk about it, being able to talk about the distribution box and things like that. But I think that is what’s coming. And I think if to be prepared, one of the biggest home builders in my area is

sells window coverings to the customer. And they’re a Hunter dealer and a Norman dealer. And all it’s going to take is for these home builders who are so cookie cutter, they’re so buy the book, they don’t want any type of change, someone’s going to tell them, you know, we can make an extra $40,000 a house if we offer somebody a home, a smart home with pre-wired low voltage circuits to these windows. So I would just be ahead of that.

and be prepared for that. But I think I couldn’t agree with Ryan more that automation is going to be everything I would, I think in 20 years, you might even manual appliance might be gone in 20 years. Very good chance. So prepare for that and be ahead of that and have that knowledge in your back pocket when it happens.

Ryan Gilberts (32:11)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Will Hanke (32:22)
Love it, some great in-plate.

Ryan Gilberts (32:22)
Definitely future-proofing your

house.

Joe Kendall (32:23)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Will Hanke (32:24)
That’s great. And I would assume

that kind of stuff is increasing the value of your home nowadays, right, for people that are shopping for homes.

Joe Kendall (32:31)
Right. Right, right, right.

Will Hanke (32:32)
That’s great. Well, guys, thank you so much. Before we finish up here, just wanted to get any last thoughts for window treatment business owners that are out there struggling right now and want to obviously build their business over the rest of the year. What kind of advice would you give to them? We’ll start with Joe.

Joe Kendall (32:50)
No one’s gonna feel sorry for you.

It’s a tough world out there. You’re not going to be given anything. Become an expert. anytime you talk to people, there’s two great words to use, is unique and expert. People want unique products delivered by an expert. So those two words,

Will Hanke (32:55)
So you eat what you kill.

Joe Kendall (33:08)
are what I try to use all the time. You know, I don’t say salesman. I say expert. I don’t say, yeah, we have blinds. We have some very unique offerings. Separate yourself. But that’s, know, hey, listen, it’s not a cash cow. It’s work.

I can only imagine how far Ryan drives every day. But he’s working it and he’s doing it. But that would be my tip. Unique and expert are two words I would use as much as possible.

Will Hanke (33:39)
love that. Ryan is somebody who’s been in the industry for about what three years now. There’s people in your shoes or maybe even a little bit behind there. What advice would you have for them?

Ryan Gilberts (33:51)
Well, technically I’m fortunate that I have worked in the industry for almost 15 years. but I’ve owned the business on my own business for now three. biggest thing that I, I knew from when I went from here to here was honestly switching to my current website provider, throwing that one out there for you. Well,

Will Hanke (34:00)
Yeah.

Ryan Gilberts (34:11)
and

Will Hanke (34:12)
Thanks.

Ryan Gilberts (34:13)
Honestly, the marketing, making sure you look professional as a business and as a person. Anyone can slap a logo on the side of your van, but you need to know your product. Go out there, learn from your vendor reps. Get to know your vendor reps, learn from them. Start getting systems in place and getting your business a lot more efficient. So that way you’re not spending

four hours a day in your office grouping orders together because you want to save that $25 on a minimum.

Don’t jump over a dollar to save a dime.

Will Hanke (34:45)
Yeah.

I love that.

for sure, love that. Thank you guys so much for some incredible conversation today, I do appreciate it. Joe and Ryan, you guys have been amazing. As a listener, if you’ve been inspired to take your window treatment business to the next level, start applying some of these strategies right away. These guys have been doing this for quite a while, they know what works, take their advice and apply, I think is the best piece here. By implementing these window treatment marketing strategies, you can effectively reach more clients and stand out in a competitive market. Remember, consistent effort and adaptability are key components in growing your business successfully. Don’t hesitate to experiment and find what resonates with your audience, as that will lead to lasting relationships and increased sales.

Apply what you’re doing. If you love this episode, send it to a friend and don’t forget to click the subscribe button. We would love to make sure that you can hear all of our future podcasts as well. Ryan, Joe, thank you guys so much for taking some time out of your day to be with us.

Appreciate it guys. Thank you. We’ll catch you on the next one.

Joe Kendall (35:28)
OK.

Ryan Gilberts (35:28)
Thanks, Will.

Have good one.

 

Guest Profile: Amy Wollf

She is an award winning designer and decorator providing custom window treatments in Scottsdale.
WINNER 2022 VISION Design Award – Outdoor
WINNER 2021 – Top Treatments
WINNER 2017 – Specialty Windows | Certified Interior Decorator
Amy recently celebrated being in the industry for 20 years!
She has developed a reputation for successfully delivering functional solutions for intricate or technically challenging window configurations including custom window shades, custom and motorized window treatments, draperies, and even custom upholstered furniture.

Other Notes/Links:

To learn more about Amy Wollf visit:

Amy Wollf Interiors

pssst…. want to be a guest on the show?

Listen to other episodes

Summary

In this episode of Marketing Panes, host Will Hanke interviews Amy Wolff, an award-winning designer and decorator specializing in custom window treatments. Amy shares her journey in the industry, her unique business model as a solopreneur, and her strategies for attracting premium clients. The conversation delves into the importance of personal service, navigating competition, and leveraging marketing strategies, including social media and PR efforts. Amy also discusses trends in the window treatment industry, maintaining business stability, and her aspirations for the future.

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TRANSCRIPT

Will Hanke (00:00)
All right, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk to real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today we’ve got a guest with some great insights that I’m excited to interview and I’ve known for a long time. She’s an award-winning designer and decorator providing custom window treatments in the Scottsdale, Arizona area.

She is the winner of 2017 Specialty Windows Award, 2021 Top Treatments, and in 2022, the Vision Design Award for Outdoor. Amy recently celebrated being in the industry for 20 years. She’s developed a reputation for successfully delivering functional solutions for intricate or technically challenging window configurations, including custom window shades, custom and motorized window treatments, draperies, and even custom upholstered furniture. Amy from Amy Wolf Interiors, thank you for being on the show today.

Amy (01:07)
Thanks for having me, Will.

Will Hanke (01:08)
Yeah, I really do appreciate you jumping on. So I saw and I just read in your bio that you’ve been in the industry for 20 years. Congrats on that milestone. That’s pretty awesome. What inspired you to get into window treatments and interior design in the first place?

Amy (01:19)
Thank you.

You know, it sounds cliche, but I was kind of born with it. I always did it. Even as a little kid, I was rearranging my room and painting it. So it’s just stuff that I’ve always done.

Will Hanke (01:40)
OK, yeah, that’s cool. it was you it was you were just born with it, right?

Amy (01:44)
Hahaha

Will Hanke (01:46)
I love that. So, so tell me a little bit about your business, Amy Wolf Interiors. Who do you serve and what sets you apart in your area?

Amy (01:54)
Well, I’m a solopreneur. I do not have a storefront. work from home because I go to my client’s home. I serve mostly, you know, the 45 plus crowd, the people who want some more luxury, the people who are willing to pay for custom, for something more unique than you could just buy online. or at Home Depot. And so that’s my crowd. They’re at the point in their life where they want better things, you know, and buy good by once and they just, you know, want to treat themselves better at the end of the day.

Will Hanke (02:40)
And you’re the right area for it. I know the Scottsdale area is growing like weeds Yeah, that’s great. So Talking about those maybe higher-end clients. I guess we could call them How do you position yourself to get those premium clients? for your services

Amy (02:45)
Always.

Well, your whole brand, because I’m my brand, you you just position it differently. We don’t put out sales and we can beat anybody’s price. That’s not us. There’s plenty of people to do that for the people who want that. And that’s a good thing. And it’s more of a personal service. You deal with me. I’m not going to send three different salesmen. Out or you know and of course I have an excellent virtual team you know I have excellent workrooms I have the best installer so everything you know we have an onboarding we have an initial call we confirm everything you know our appointment we let them know we’re on the way you have to be very consistent because people are looking for that high customer service experience that you know there was a time that was the norm now they think it’s exceptional

and

Will Hanke (03:51)
I love that you have a complete onboarding process and you’re really giving them an experience before you even do any work, really.

Amy (04:00)
Well, and at the same time, kind of qualifying them as well. You know, that they are the right client. Because, hey, it isn’t fair to my other clients to take time away from someone who isn’t a good fit. And I’m okay with that because there will be some, you know, I try to point them in the right direction if I’m not. So.

Will Hanke (04:20)
Yeah,

yeah. In my world of digital marketing, there’s a thing where the form on your website, the more fields you put, the less likely people are to fill it out. However, the people that take the time to fill that out tend to be better clients. So I’m sure putting them through this same sort of process is very similar to that.

Amy (04:43)
Well, I don’t put them through every single one, make them fill out a form. It’s more of a phone call form. But you’re right, the ones who fill out my form online to contact me, they’ve already committed. Because they’ve taken the time, they’ve gone through and they like what they see already, and they’ll fill in what they’re looking for. So those are usually good solid prospects.

Will Hanke (05:09)
like that. So you mentioned that you have an installer on your team. Do you have a workroom that helps with some of the things that you do?

Amy (05:13)
Yes.

Well, I have local workrooms that make just about everything we do in terms of soft treatments. Draperies, cornices, valances, you know, yes, and they also make custom upholstered furniture and they’re very good at what they do. And my installer is a separate person. Like I said, I kind of have a virtual firm and as needed call people in so we can accept a fair amount of volume.

Will Hanke (05:24)
Okay.

it yeah and you’re not just focused specifically on window treatments you’ll help them with other things as well right

Amy (05:52)
I do, you know, I really, it’s my favorite thing to do. So I’ve really narrowed. I mean, I used to do remodels and new builds, pick all the, you know, all the finishes for those lighting countertops, cabinetry, everything. And I’ve pretty much eliminated that. I will help my window treatment clients if you know, Hey, what do you think of this? Where should I get that? If they want custom lighting, I’ll get it.

but it isn’t something I chase after anymore in terms of a full blown house project like that.

Will Hanke (06:23)
Okay.

Okay. There’s plenty of work in that part of the country, as I mentioned earlier. So it’s nice that you can be a little bit more specific about your audience.

Amy (06:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, it’s just, it’s what I enjoy doing the most. And trust me, there’s plenty of competition in both. There’s plenty of interior designers doing all the design work and there’s plenty of other window covering companies out here too. And they all have a different niche, but there’s some overlap. You’re going to run into some now and again.

Will Hanke (06:55)
Yeah. Yeah. Have you created any special strategies to compete against the other people in town, specifically the larger dealers without compromising your kind of like boutique service model?

Amy (07:10)
Well, let’s face it, the larger dealers have a huge advertising and marketing budget. You know, I can’t bid against them at $500 a lead on Google, you know, and being everywhere like that. So I honed in and, you know, geographically, I honed in a lot closer to home because I provide better service if I can get there sooner or I can get there.

Will Hanke (07:22)
Right.

Amy (07:37)
you know, without having to schedule someone out a week and a half because I don’t have a big enough block of time for travel because it’s a big valley here and there are people who go anywhere. Well, that could be an hour and a half away. And that doesn’t serve my clients well. So I have honed into a very specific geographic area. Will I go elsewhere? Yes, but I don’t market to it. And what I do that’s different from the larger is the personal service.

You’re not one of five appointments today. know, at most I’ll schedule two. A morning and an afternoon at most. Because there’s folks who I’m out of there in 45 minutes or an hour who are very decisive, they were very crisp on what they said they wanted. And there’s others who you like to chat and get to know you and take longer. And so I’m not, you know, hit and run, hit and run, hit and run. It’s just a more personal experience. And these are the people who like that.

Will Hanke (08:28)
Yeah, that’s great.

Amy (08:29)
They’re not calling

five people and saying hand me a quote, hand me a quote, hand me a quote. That’s not my clientele.

Will Hanke (08:36)
sure. Do you have a way to filter those types of people out before you ever make it to their home?

Amy (08:42)
Usually on the initial phone call that’s usually between you know 20 minutes in an hour depending on how much they have to do and how much I’m trying to decipher Because they’ll tell you what they think they want, but that doesn’t mean they’re using the correct terminology You know I’ve had people call and say they want curtains, and they really wanted a shade So you have to you have to you know Go down through that to see what they was is in their mind’s eye that they don’t know how to describe

And I’ll also probe them, have you done custom before? Do you know what this costs? And ways to, now we can value engineer. There’s ways we can do something for most people’s budgets, if they’re realistic. I mean, if you’re comparing to buying panels off of Amazon, well, that’s not realistic. You’re not getting the same thing. And I’ll explain to them, if that’s what you want, that’s fine, just understand what you’re getting.

Cause there’s places for that. Put them in the guest room.

Will Hanke (09:38)
sense.

Yeah. And you mentioned earlier that you really don’t compete on price. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Amy (09:47)
I don’t because again, it’s a very custom product I give you. don’t sell name household brands, let’s say. I’m not one of those dealers. I was at one time. sell products that, as I tell my clients, I sell you products that don’t make you cry or give me headaches.

Will Hanke (10:07)
I like that. I like that.

Amy (10:08)
Well, callbacks cost money. So if I sell, you know, let’s say roller shades, motorized stuff, I sell stuff we don’t get callbacks on. That costs a little more upfront, but then it’s not a cost to me or heartache for them later on in the quality. people who are interested in quality, you know, are more likely to pick me. If you’re shopping strictly price,

We probably didn’t even get to the first appointment because I’ve already had that conversation. Or I’ll tell them, go ahead, go get all your pricing and come on back, let me see what you got. And we can or not take it from there. It’s an understanding what you’re getting for the money and the personal service. And of course, custom, you can’t, if you’re doing, we have huge windows here. So it can be very difficult to get something like draperies online or in the store.

Because they’re so tall and wide that sometimes custom is your only option. So, you know, can you go try and price shop that? Sure. I don’t know how effective that is.

Will Hanke (11:05)
Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. So in your area, you mentioned the big windows. What is the breakdown between hard and soft treatments? Do you think for your customers?

Amy (11:25)
Well, I definitely sell more hard treatments because it’s the desert and it’s dusty. So a lot of folks don’t want draperies in that. Although they’ll do cornices, they’ll do top treatments of different kinds, or they’ll just do some side panels. So probably, I’m going to say 70-30.

Will Hanke (11:44)
Okay, interesting.

Amy (11:45)
I realized you know I Forget someone was asking me it could have been you Motorization now is probably 75 % of all the shades I order So even if someone’s doing the whole house Very few motorized the whole house For instance they’ll put cordless in the guest room because they don’t want the guests to be messing around with a remote and it’s just easier

Will Hanke (11:57)
wow, okay.

You

Amy (12:11)
So they won’t, even they won’t do the whole house or the garage. You don’t need to motorize the garage shades. You need to open them twice a year when you have the windows cleaned. Right? Yeah. So that’s part of the value engineering. say too, okay, hey, we can save here, we can save there. That makes sense.

Will Hanke (12:20)
Makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you have people that motorize one room and then realize how awesome it is and then call you back as a separate project?

Amy (12:38)
Yes. Plus I have folks who, you know, for whatever reason they don’t want to or they can’t do the whole house at once. So we do it in phases. And we can plan that out. That’s fine. I have one now who regrets not motorizing eight windows. And she happens to have the same size windows in other rooms. We’re going to move them and motorize that room down.

Will Hanke (12:46)
Sure.

that’s a great idea. OK.

OK. Very cool. So as I said early on, you’ve won a lot of awards around design. And I’ve seen some of the things that you’ve done. I know that PR is a big piece of everything you do. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Amy (13:06)
Mm-hmm.

Well, I actually just started doing that. and it was suggested to me when, know, I was talking about my 20th anniversary, I said, wow, you really got to promote that. Is that I got a guy who is a, you know, a PR professional. So I said, okay, let’s do it. And it exploded to me is, you know, you’re working, you’re doing your job, whatever. It isn’t a big deal, but apparently it’s a big news deal. So.

We’re going to try and do more frequent things. We did another one on the tariff situation, how that could be affecting our business or not. It isn’t affecting mine because almost everything I do is made in the USA. And that really started because of COVID accessibility to things. So I brought things as local as I possibly could, whether it’s hard treatments or custom draperies and top treatments.

Even that’s what even got us into custom upholstery because the big, the higher end furniture manufacturers in North Carolina weren’t going to deliver for 18 months. I said, well, that’s not acceptable. So we started making them here.

Will Hanke (14:25)
I love that. That’s a great work around that worked out well for you.

Amy (14:31)
Well, and it’s actually worked out better for my clients because it’s at the same price as your higher end brands, know, your Hancock and Moore Century. Same price, but even more customized because they can go to the little showroom at my upholster and sit on different cushions. Yeah, I like this firmness or I like that one and pick any fabric we want. And, you know, the turnaround was, you know, a couple of months, not 18 and

Will Hanke (14:58)
You

Amy (15:00)
The freight for one client went from for two sofas and four, you know, big armchairs. The freight went from $3,800 down to 250 because our local white glove delivered. So it benefits everyone really.

Will Hanke (15:13)
that’s great.

Yeah. So on the on the PR, what are you doing? Are you just doing a press release or are you are you trying to get on local TV? Any of that kind of stuff?

Amy (15:26)
We haven’t gone to the local TV yet because a lot of that here is actually paid. Even though they act like yeah, so you have to pay for that spot. So we’re doing mostly mostly newspaper magazine. Trade. Journals so everything from local to to the trade. All the shelter stuff.

Will Hanke (15:45)
Okay, so you’re specifically sending a press release or some information to them and hoping to get an interview or something in those types of publications.

Amy (15:53)
Yes,

and just being picked up, it all helps with backlinks to the website. So that all helps as well. Plus I promote them on social media locally all over.

Will Hanke (16:00)
Yeah, sure.

Okay, very good. All right, so another thing that you’ve mentioned in the past is direct marketing. Tell me about that piece. Direct marketing is a powerful approach that allows businesses to connect with their targeted audience more personally and directly. By leveraging methods such as email campaigns, direct mail, and social media outreach, companies can create tailored messages that resonate with specific consumer segments. One of the resources that delve into effective direct marketing techniques is the collection of insights titled “marketing strategies by jessica harling,” where innovative tactics are discussed in detail.

Amy (16:10)
Ahem.

Well, you know, really you want repeat and referral. That’s the golden. So, Repeat and referral is key. And then I do a lot of very local social media I’ve done really well with Nextdoor. A lot of nice referrals there. And where I live, there are at least a half dozen, could be 10.

Will Hanke (16:27)
Okay.

Amy (16:36)
social media neighborhood area pages and it’s funny they all have certain days you can post your business so on Tuesdays it’s this page Wednesdays it’s that page Thursday so I just repeat the same one all week I’ve now gotten into a system of doing that and the nice thing is you have your cheerleaders who will give you a thumbs up or a comment every time so that helps it and then people already think they know you you’re already my friend

Will Hanke (16:49)
love it.

Amy (17:03)
I had two appointments in the last month. People are like, I feel like you’re my friend. Even though we hadn’t met before. So, and then there’s certain kinds of posts that work better than others. They all love the PR ones because that’s, wow, look at you. You got some news. and other ones, the most effective are, after photos. They want to see what a job looks like. I don’t put the before photos because sometimes the clients are embarrassed.

Will Hanke (17:08)
Sure, sure.

okay.

Amy (17:31)
But people love, that gets the most reactions, the most engagement are after photos as opposed to, hey, look at the new fabrics I got.

Will Hanke (17:42)
Yeah. I love that you’re posting on the different pages, you know, for the different days when you get to post your business. Are you only doing organic type posting or are you actually paying for ads on Nextdoor?

Amy (17:55)
I used to pay for ads on Nextdoor and I found it didn’t get any more response than just posting.

Will Hanke (18:03)
Yeah, so you’re just taking the time.

Amy (18:04)
And it seems the more you post,

the more neighborhoods they’ll show.

Will Hanke (18:08)
Okay. Okay. And then you just have a list of which ones on which days. That’s fantastic.

Amy (18:09)
So.

I put it in my calendar now because I’m terrible. I hate social media. I’m terrible at it. So now that I have a list of what day what goes where, as soon as I get the first one out, then I just copy it and paste it all week.

Will Hanke (18:28)
Perfect. Yeah. Well, let’s talk a little bit about business cycles. sometimes the industry is doing great. Sometimes the industry is really slow. What practical steps can business owners take to kind of maintain that stability during these ups and downs?

Amy (18:43)
I think that if you’re consistent, I mean, there’s going to be slow times and there isn’t a lot you can do about it. But if you’re consistent, I think with your message, for instance, last year was an election year. Those are always really weird years, but I did a lot better than I expected. And I think some of this consistency led toward that. There’s certain seasons for me.

And maybe the rest of the industry, don’t know if it’s a geographic thing or not, that are slower. January can be slower after the holidays. Sometimes between Thanksgiving and Christmas it can be slow because I say once the tree’s up nobody wants to see me. But you know it’s a good year when you’re still getting appointments in December that aren’t installations. And then sometimes August here can be a little slow.

And I think it’s now a lot of folks leave for the summer here. We have a lot of snowbirds. but they’ve been gone all summer. Usually they’re usually gone in May or June. So August could be a little slower and I think a lot of that might have to do with back to school, even though my really priority clients don’t have school age kids. So I just think it’s August. People are getting in their last vacations and such.

Will Hanke (20:01)
makes sense. Yeah. And I would assume Arizona is not the best place to be in August in the first place.

Amy (20:07)
We have air conditioning.

Will Hanke (20:08)
Yeah,

fair enough.

Amy (20:10)
I said I’m not a roofer or a baggage handler, so life is good.

Will Hanke (20:14)
Yes, very true. Very true. In the industry, although overall you said, you know, there’s slow times, there’s there’s great times. Do you see any trends right now in the window treatment industry? And if you do, how are you adapting to stay ahead of those?

Amy (20:28)
I don’t know if there’s trends in terms of well, I am getting a little bit more soft treatment inquiry than just blinds, know, the utilitarian. Now I’m getting a little bit more of what I’d consider luxury, optional items, because you here you have to have blinds or shades, something on your windows. There’s just that’s not negotiable, you know.

It’s just a matter of what you’re gonna spend on it and how you’re going to do it. So there’s more inquiry and that, you know, I still can’t predict how that’s gonna be up or down trend wise, but it is trending now to more luxury. So.

Will Hanke (21:09)
Really interesting

that you say that because I also do a quarterly podcast with different guests and the last two quarters, so Q3 and Q4 of 2024, that’s one thing that they’ve mentioned is that the luxury market seems to be popping up a little bit more. So it’s interesting that you also bring that up.

Amy (21:30)
Mm-hmm

Right and even more interest as well. I’m starting to get a little interested in the custom upholstery again because people Want a quality item? Yeah, you can go buy a sofa for you know $800 This isn’t the $800 crowd, you know, they they want something they’re gonna use every day and and you know quality items, so

Will Hanke (21:38)
Okay.

Amy (21:59)
It’s just, and it’s a state of mind, by the way. You asked about luxury neighborhoods. It isn’t all 5,000 and 10,000 square foot homes. Somebody could have a 2,500 or even 1,800 square foot patio home or town home, but they’re at the point of their life that they want it all perfect and beautiful.

Will Hanke (22:22)
Okay, interesting. When it comes to design trends, what’s your favorite?

Amy (22:26)
You know, it’s funny, I like a lot of stuff. I really do. As you can see, I like color. It’s more what I don’t like. I was so sick of the gray thing the week it came out. That’s pretty much gone. I really do like all, you know, I like the opportunity to do all different styles for people. You know, I have one who’s just doing.

Will Hanke (22:29)
You

Yeah.

Amy (22:47)
plain black leather cornices. And they’re gonna look really striking where she’s putting them. And other people want all the bells and whistles, completely different styles, both equally fun.

Will Hanke (22:59)
So I think you like the idea of every one of them being different from each other.

Amy (23:03)
absolutely. In fact, that’s another one of my selling points that people happen to love is that once you choose a fabric, I won’t sell it again. So it’s yours. So people may be able to find elsewhere, but they’re not getting it from me because to me it’s custom. So I’m not selling it to someone else. I may sell it another color. And I mean, look, this is a fraction of the books and stuff. There’s plenty of fabrics.

Will Hanke (23:14)
OK. that’s fantastic.

Amy (23:31)
There’s no reason I can’t make one exclusive for a client. And they love that.

Will Hanke (23:36)
That’s a great selling point. When it comes to your dream project, what does that look like?

Amy (23:38)
Yeah.

You know, I had to think about that. And I think it’d be super fun to do like a whole house of motorized draperies. You know, like hotels.

That would be just fabulous.

Will Hanke (23:54)
Yeah.

OK, very cool. All motorized. Yeah, all working together. And I guess you do the smart home piece of that as well.

Amy (23:58)
Fuck, cuz fabrics are fun, you know?

We will talk to your smart home. We will make sure whatever we put in Seize your smart home. We’re not going to go into programming in your smart home So we will help the homeowner Okay, you whether it’s on their iPad or their phone or whatever. Okay, it sees our shade It’s operating or the drapery. It’s operating You have to go in and tell it if you want different scenes times a day or all that

Will Hanke (24:32)
Sure.

Yeah. Sure.

Amy (24:34)
We won’t do that. We’ll get

it all working and make sure it sees it, but we don’t want to go into somebody’s smart home because they have so many things in there that we just don’t want to want to touch. And sometimes we have to call the smart home people because they have so many things. We need them to open up another channel or whatever it is for us because that’s the only reason it’s not seated is that you’ve already got eight other things on there. You know, the TVs, the lights, I mean,

Will Hanke (24:43)
That’s right.

Amy (25:03)
outdoor misters outdoor fans you know they’ve got everything on cameras so

Will Hanke (25:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

as a guy who is really into the smart home piece of everything, I would prefer somebody just set it up and hand it to me to build for me to build the automations anyway.

Amy (25:23)
Well that’s it too, because your preferences could change. So the cool thing is the folks who want them to go up at night and day, now the software knows when is night and day. You don’t have to reset it all year.

Will Hanke (25:36)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think for the snowbirds, too, there’s probably different automations for when they’re not there. Right.

Amy (25:38)
So.

Well, most of the time they’ll have them down the whole time. But okay, now got somebody coming to do something at the house while I’m gone. Okay, let me open those for them while I’m in Colorado.

Will Hanke (25:46)
Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

Amy (25:57)
But I’ll tell you what, that’s still a very small percentage that go to that extent. At least of my clients, I’m going to say it’s 5%. The rest just want a handheld remote. They don’t want to, even though they can do it. And I sell them because some could change their mind in a year or two. So I sell them the motors that we can get them programmed later on.

Will Hanke (26:04)
Okay.

Makes sense. Yeah.

Amy (26:19)
Yeah, in case

they change their mind, we have the ability to add it later.

Will Hanke (26:23)
Yeah. Yeah. When they go to somebody else’s house and that person is like me really into it and shows them all the cool things they can do. Yeah.

Amy (26:31)
Right.

But at the end of the day, isn’t it really just a show-off thing? You know, I mean, there’s some level for home security, but otherwise to have everything going is, you know.

Will Hanke (26:36)
Yes, a little bit.

Yeah, fair enough.

Let’s talk about single room projects. Do you have any strategies to upsell somebody who just calls you for a single room and try to get them to do more of a whole house project?

Amy (26:57)
You know, they almost upsell themselves a lot of times because they see how beautiful the one room came out and they’re, oh, yeah, now I got to do this room. That’s, you know, unless they’ve called me because they’ve had everything else done. Or let’s say they bought the home and everything was done except a certain room. But a lot of times they kind of upsell themselves.

Will Hanke (27:17)
That’s great. I think that goes back to your process and the onboarding and giving them an experience right off the bat.

Amy (27:24)
And then they see how effortless it is for them.

They really like not having to do anything, not having to run around and find fabric, not having to do all those things that some do-it-yourselfers like to do. They find that fun. But these folks like to have the whole thing taken care of. I just want to go to lunch or play golf or I’ve got other things going on, you know, that I just don’t want to do this.

Will Hanke (27:27)
like that.

You

Yeah, yeah, for window treatment businesses that are looking to run more smoothly like that, what systems or processes should they focus on first?

Amy (28:01)
the customer facing ones. You know, it’s like the duck that looks real calm on the surface and the legs are going like crazy underneath. Have the customer, you need to focus, make sure your customer facing processes are, because that’s where the money comes from. We work for them. And then your internal ones, you know, are equally important, but you can take care of those in the background.

when you’re not taking care of your clients.

Will Hanke (28:27)
Very good. You mentioned the money comes from them. When you’re presenting those higher end window treatments, how do you ensure that you still are making a healthy margin off of that?

Amy (28:39)
Well, you know, you have to charge what you need to get your gross and your net profit. You need to know what your costs are. And I’ll tell you what, just because mine may be lower than say someone who has a showroom, that doesn’t mean I’m going to charge less. It’s a value to the client. It’s the end product they’re getting. So yeah, I put healthy profit on things. And most people watching this,

Even if you have a huge showroom and you’re a multi-million dollar shade, you know blind and shade dealer You know what your formulas need to be? To make to make your profit, but most people in the business say a rule of thumb, you know is is double your cost For openers now, there’s some shade people who don’t do that because they’re doing a lot of volume But then to me you’re always playing catch-up

Will Hanke (29:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Amy (29:29)
and those are also the folks who the price shoppers or their clientele so it’s just a different business model nothing wrong with it just a different model not one that I ever wanted

Will Hanke (29:37)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Back to not competing on price. think that lowers your stress, right? Maybe less clients, but better clients and less stress for you.

Amy (29:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yes. Better clients, you know, better margins. Yeah, I mean, you know, the better clients, the less running you’re doing, which is also why I narrowed my geography, too.

Will Hanke (30:03)
Make sense? Yep. Okay. So I want to do a marketing myth or fact with you. Homeowners in older homes are less likely to invest in custom window treatments.

Amy (30:09)
Okay.

that’s definitely a myth. they wear out. I would say I have 60, 40, 60 new homes, new move-ins versus 40 that they’ve been in the home 15, 20 years. And, you know, the, the, the blinds had a nice life. They’re, they’re over it. They want motorization. They want a cleaner look.

I mean it’s completely different. Look, they have verticals. know? Things that, you know, the old plastic verticals of the old hardware store with all the strings and such and no, it’s definitely a myth.

Will Hanke (30:52)
Very good. Here’s another one. Myth or fact? Luxury clients only come from high end neighborhoods.

Amy (30:59)
No, that’s a myth too. As I said before, well, you know, it could be a townhouse. Maybe it’s a high-end neighborhood, but you don’t judge that, you know, they’re not gonna spend a lot because to me, it’s a state of mind. I mean, I market to the higher-end homes when I see no home closings, because that’s an easy grab to market to, but…

No, you don’t assume, because I’ll tell you what, and I live in the desert, so there’s a lot of ranches and such. You don’t know what’s behind that gate. And sometimes you get back there and it’s Oz, I mean. Everything is like beautiful and manicured. You have no idea from the gate what you’re gonna find. So I never assume.

Will Hanke (31:48)
Yeah, yeah. So obviously you market more to the high end with the on purpose marketing. As your company grows and you have these different growth opportunities, how do you evaluate those? You know, along with I know you do a lot of traveling, diving, those sorts of things. How do you keep your business going and growing with keeping that stuff in mind as well?

Amy (31:56)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I plan my trips when it’s generally going to be slower here. I do stay in contact. See, this is another thing with hiring people. If I’m out of town and we have our initial call while I’m away or something, they’ll wait. Price shoppers want you there this afternoon.

Especially if you build a rapport with them and you know, generally they like to travel too. They like to do so they understand

Will Hanke (32:41)
Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for sharing that. So a couple last bonus questions. Is there a design trend in window treatments that you secretly dislike but your clients love?

Amy (32:44)
I’m

I really can’t think of one. Quite frankly, know, the new regulations with strings and such makes my life a lot easier because there’s a lot less choices in terms of how to operate things. And a lot of times I make that decision for my client. I’ll say to them, okay, and this one, if we’re not doing motorization, let’s say, okay, well, this is what you need to have here. And then, you know, that’s that.

Will Hanke (33:09)
You

Amy (33:16)
I take the options away because I know what’s gonna function best for them. And so that helps. But no, there isn’t anything I secretly hate because it isn’t about me. It’s not my home. Does it work at your home?

Will Hanke (33:30)
Right. Yeah, makes sense. I know that you did mention earlier the gray thing and quite honestly, my wife went through that maybe a year ago and we’re already talking about repainting.

Amy (33:36)
Ha!

But here’s the good thing. It’s just paint.

Will Hanke (33:46)
Right.

Amy (33:47)
So when clients were into that, I wouldn’t let them put it on the expensive stuff, like your shades, your countertops, your floors, things that are expensive to replace. I would move more toward grayish. You know that beige gray? And then otherwise, it’s just paint. It’s a pain, but it isn’t expensive in the scheme of things.

Will Hanke (34:08)
Right.

Yeah,

yeah. As long as you don’t use that to match everything up like you said. And then when it comes to repainting, now we have to start over.

Amy (34:19)
February would…

Will Hanke (34:21)
Yeah, yeah. So Amy, if someone wants to learn more about your work and what you do, where’s the best place for them to connect with you?

Amy (34:28)
Well, obviously my website www.amywolffinteriors.com and that’s with two F’s as you see right there. And, or call me, text me.

Will Hanke (34:39)
Okay. Lastly, what are the three most important business lessons that you’ve learned in your over 20 years that could help other people listening to the podcast?

Amy (34:49)
Well, one, decide what kind of business you want to be.

You know, do you want to be a huge showroom with all kinds of salespeople and all that? Or do you want to be a boutique solopreneur like me or something in between? Decide what you want to be.

Find out who your priority customers are, your premium clientele. Who are they? Where do you find them?

And then, you know, everything beyond that kind of rolls into place. But you have to be consistent as well. You can’t, you can’t try and be both. I don’t think. Yes, do, do the big showrooms offer what I do? Sure they do. Do they do it the same way? No. So I think that’s the hardest part is deciding what kind of business you want to be and who you’re going to serve.

Will Hanke (35:37)
Yeah, good point. We talk about in my world, the message, the market and the media, right? If you know who the market is and you know, you know what message you’re going to say to them, you’re 75 % of the world in this case, 66 % of the way done, right?

Amy (35:45)
Right.

Right. Right. And there isn’t a right or wrong answer. It’s you choose what you want it to look like. And, know, there was a point in the last 20 years where I could have gone a different way, but as I thought about it and I had gone to a, was invited, it was a big deal to this VIP designer business seminar, running your business and all these other, and as I sat there,

And they’re like, what’s your takeaway? And I thought, wow, my takeaway is I don’t want 12 or 20 people working for me to be responsible for feeding all those families. My personal choice. Can I make the same salary as those owners without having to worry about all these other families? And so that’s just my personal choice, you know.

Will Hanke (36:46)
Yeah,

that’s great. And that’s the way that you’ve built your business to be in that position. That’s great. Amy, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I’ll bet. Last question. I know I said last already. You’re 20 years into this with your business. What do the next five years look like for you?

Amy (36:53)
Right. But it was an aha moment.

You

Well, that’s a good question. mean, I love doing this, but I mean, at some point you want to figure out a retirement gig. So, you know, I’m just mulling over in my head what that would look like.

What would a laptop life look like that keeps me still in the industry?

Will Hanke (37:29)
Yeah. And I know that you like to travel and diving is something that you really love. So obviously you probably want to do more of that, right?

Amy (37:34)
Yes.

Well, who

Will Hanke (37:39)
Well, Amy, thank you so much for being on. You shared some incredible tips with us today. And if you are a window treatment dealer and you’re inspired by some of Amy’s things, you know, feel free to reach out to her and make sure to apply these to your business where you can and really start using these strategies to build your business to the next point. If you love this episode, obviously, please consider sending it to a friend in the industry.

Like us on YouTube like us on the podcast networks and make sure you’ll never miss another episode Amy thank you so much for being on we really appreciate it and we’ll see everybody in the next episode

Amy Wolff (38:22)
Thanks Will, always great to chat with you.

Summary

In this episode of Marketing Panes, window treatment experts Josh Tycksen (Best Blinds and Sexy Shutters, Arizona) and Vince Sturkie (Best Blinds and Shutters, Carolinas) shared their experiences from 2024 and insights for 2025. The discussion covered market trends, technological adaptations, and strategic business approaches in the window treatment industry.

Guests Profile:Vince Sturkie

Started Best Blinds in 2001 after spending years in the mortgage banking industry. In 2001 I started and built Columbia SC’s largest window treatment store. After selling the Blind business I went back to mortgage banking by starting Hilton Head Mortgage in Hilton Head Island SC. But, I found myself right back in the window fashions industry when I started Best Blinds and Shutters in Greenville SC.in 2019. I now employ 2 of my 3 children along with my wife Sandra where we believe our greatest asset is that we are a local family owned business.

Josh Tycksen

Owner of Best Blinds and Sexy Shutters
With a background in professional ballroom dance, Josh Tycksen brings precision, artistry, and attention to detail to every window treatment project, making Best Blinds and Shutters a trusted name in Arizona home improvement.

Other Notes/Links:

To learn more about

Vince Sturkie visit:

Best Blinds and Shutters

Josh Tycksen visit:

Best Blinds and Sexy Shutters

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Transcript

All right, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today, we are doing our Q4 review slash Q1 outlook for 2025 and excited to have two of the best window treatment dealers.

in the US on today and that’s a little bit of a play on words here. So we’ve got Josh Tixon, owner of Best Blinds and Sexy Shudders. Josh has a background in professional ballroom dancing. Josh brings precision, artistry and attention to detail to every window treatment project, making Best Blinds and Shudders a trusted name in the Arizona home improvement. And then we’ve got Vince Sturkey, owner of Best Blinds and Shudders.

Vince Sturkey owns Best Blinds and Shudders with a commitment to quality and trust, providing custom blind shades and shutters to homes across upstate South Carolina and western North Carolina. Guys, thanks so much for being on today.

Vince Sturkie (01:13)
Thanks Will.

Will Hanke (01:15)
Really appreciate you guys jumping on. So we’re going to get into a little bit of the Q4 and Q1 outlook kind of stuff. first, I have a personal question for each of you. Josh, I’m very intrigued by your journey from professional ballroom dancing to window treatments. How has that background and precision and artistry influenced your approach to the business?

Josh Tycksen (01:40)
It’s interesting. I’ve never really thought about it that way. I just grew up doing it because it was a good hobby. It a good way to meet chicks. My mom said I had to be in either some form of dance or art or music and I liked movement and I like music. I’m a very energetic person. I look like I’m always on about 10 Dr. Peppers, but I don’t really drink a lot of caffeine actually. I just have a lot of natural energy, but the benefits coming from it though are I had to work with a lot of different people in a very intimate

Will Hanke (01:46)
you

Josh Tycksen (02:09)
setting, know, where like partnering with somebody, your hands are right on each other, on each other’s back or whatever, and you’re very close and these boundaries are very different. And in learning how to work with, you know, so many different partners and people in those settings, I think it set me up for a lot more success working with the different kinds of people that I encounter on a daily basis in our appointments. And I can read a lot of body language. I don’t even think about it. I just can see it and other people might.

not notice those same things, you know, yeah. And, know, and it just, yeah, a lot of attention to detail, cause that’s all you do. You practice some things and he says, Hey, that’s wrong. Do it again. Hey, that’s wrong. Do it again. It’s just the art of perfection. You’re just chasing over and over. And, the presentation at the end is something with the wow factor you’re really going for, where if you’re putting on a show or a performance that people want to be excited about it, and that’s what gets people come into your shows. And so I tend to have a same.

flair for our things where I like to show up at the end of installs if I’m not already part of it. And I like to get them so jacked about the products that we’re putting up by the time they’re done that they really do appreciate things that they might not otherwise know about them and kind of go through a little bit of care and, you know, just tutorial with them where we get them all excited. Cause then by the end they’re, you know, they’re like, wow, wow. I had no idea. And, I think that takes them over the top where we can then ask them for those reviews and stuff, you know, really kind of kind of.

rolls a cycle that just helps you grow and helps you stay busy.

Will Hanke (03:38)
Yeah,

that’s a great strategy. I love the energy. I think that’s big piece, especially showing up at the end of the install and kind of hyping them up, right? That’s super cool.

Very good.

Josh Tycksen (03:51)
Yeah,

I 100 % agree. Especially, mean, like our favorite thing to sell is automation because people want automation. A lot of people ask for it not having any idea what it costs. And they just are thinking about the wow factor part of it. So if you can get them over the price and have something that you know they can count on and love and then really go through and set it up for them, they get really excited about it. So it’s fun.

Will Hanke (04:13)
Yeah.

Very cool. So Vince, question for you too. We were talking before we started today about Josh’s business being called Sexy Shudders. And your comment was around the North Carolina, South Carolina area being a little more conservative. How does that play into your sales approach?

Vince Sturkie (04:34)
well you definitely got to you know check the room when you walk in every home here because you you know you could you know you don’t know so many people that are here came from somewhere else so you know when we’re here you know we we’re you know we’re country a lot of us are country boys from south carolina you know it’s more rural than it is urban and suburban here but you know we we’re we’re you know we walk in we see things you know you’re like okay what do i what hat do i need to wear today

when i’m dealing with these folks but you know people move here for a reason and you know generally they have something in common with the people that are already here and they want to be here with us and so we just kinda just it’s just business as usual really for every single home you know we just went through the election that was kind of political you know you had to you know be a little bit more balanced and careful because you never know what home you’re in

But at the end of the day, people are people. And they want to be helped with what they need. And they want you to treat them the way they want to be treated. And if you got all those bases covered, none of that’s going to matter. But it’s made for South Carolina to be a great place to do business right now.

Will Hanke (05:46)
Nice. Yeah. Like Josh said, you kind of got to read the room, right? And see what’s going on when you walk in.

Vince Sturkie (05:54)
Yes, absolutely. My installers can’t wear their Trump 24 hats on the job, right? I’m just like, keep it in the truck. But you know, we got a couple of different people here, so they’re all wearing different hats. But I just try to tell them that we’re here to love everybody, serve everybody, and everybody’s getting the same treatment with us.

Will Hanke (06:16)
Yeah, yeah, that’s great. Thank you. So let’s jump in and talk about Q4, how it’s been. And I think the big thing here is what is the biggest surprising shift that you guys have seen in customer preferences for window treatments?

Josh Tycksen (06:35)
Benz, you want to go first, you’re welcome to.

Vince Sturkie (06:36)
Yeah,

I think for us here in South Carolina, Will, you know, we’re also getting a lot more requests for motorization than we’ve ever gotten. So we’re hearing motorization more so. Because we have a lot of people here in the South that move from the North, you’ve got a lot of people still asking for Honeycomb Shades, which was real big in the Northeast. You know, whereas in the South, we didn’t do a lot of that product. So as people are migrating to us,

we’re seeing a shift toward more honeycombs than ever. Whereas back in 01 when I started, honeycombs were real big, now it’s roller shades, right? So, you know, we’re still seeing people come in asking for roller shades. I think the biggest shift now today in our industry from when I first got in it in 01 is the money flow. We’re having…

Back then the average ticket was less than two grand. Now we’re having people spend ten, fifteen thousand dollars like it’s two thousand dollars. And this is cash money, this isn’t borrowed money. So we’re seeing a shift toward higher tickets, we’re seeing a shift toward nicer products, and we’re seeing a shift in people being more easily letting go of the money. Which is really helpful in our business, especially when the margins start tightening.

Will Hanke (08:03)
Right. Yeah, Josh. I saw you nodding your head around the the motorization stuff. I know you actually mentioned The automation piece a little earlier. Is that the same thing you’re seeing?

Josh Tycksen (08:15)
Yeah, I mean, I’m trying to always open up our portfolio of what we’ll offer so that we’re current with the latest trends and what people are looking for. Our target market, like defining that really helped a lot. You know, after I got some business coaching a few years back, I want people in a new home. I want it to be their second or their third home. I’m not looking for a 25 to 30 year old in their first home where they could barely afford it. And they’re scraping by on what they can’t afford and instead getting somebody who’s 40 or older and they’ve got a, you

$750,000 home or more. And they’ve had an experience like this before. either put up their own window treatments or had a bad experience with somebody else, you know, or they may, once in a while, they may have not still put those in. But most of the time when that’s our target market, it’s a lot easier to, you know, work with people in what, I mean, price matters. I just don’t think it’s the most important thing. And that’s really hard when you’re going into quotes to get people off of that area and to really make sure that you can present the value.

and how the experience is going to go when they work with you, how your timeline is going to be kept, you know, and what they can expect from start to finish and after finish if there’s any problems going through those details, you know, as far as coming back to your question, being more specific to Q4, it’s so helpful to look at previous years to have that information, to see how many quotes we had from September into October into November into December, how many leads came in in those times, what those things were for and

Even being able to compare it to an election year and see the dip right before the election and then nine closed deals the day after Trump was elected. You know, okay, we’re good. got money. Okay, we’re good. You know, and the phone went off the hook and we closed nine deals the next day. You know, similar to what he said to, know, our average ticket going up, keeping track of that. mean, there’s our market here has a lot of new builds and I just kind of have moved my family to be closer to those because

Will Hanke (09:57)
you

Josh Tycksen (10:14)
I see people in new builds, they’re going to get it anyway. It’s a lot harder to quote somebody who thinks they want something because they saw an advertisement and they already have blinds in their house. So it’s not really a need. In a need situation, it’s a lot easier to the deal and you can present options.

Yeah, Q4 isn’t always a weird one in December. Right after the 15th up until the 31st, it’s just kind of weird. So just, up through the first 10 days of January, 15 days of January at least, and our trends have stayed the exact same. So it really helps me to be a lot more comfortable. Because I know you’ve seen me freak out on the marketing side where I’m saying, where’s my money going? How much would be allocated here and there? What are you focusing on? Why are we getting calls for this? It helps you calm down a little bit.

Will Hanke (10:39)
Yeah.

Josh Tycksen (10:59)
if you can look at those trends and see that they’re almost the exact same, you know, there’s very little variance.

Will Hanke (11:02)
Right.

Yeah, yeah, you mentioned the new builds. What percentage of your business typically is that? And has that increased over last couple of years?

Josh Tycksen (11:14)
Since I turned my focus to that, big time. I’d say for interior window treatments, I’d say it’s 90%. But we get, now that we’ve started doing patio shades where people get the patio shades or awnings, that’s not fair to say that that’s all with new builds. In fact, the patio shade demographic on the new builds is way lower because those people are already strapped for cash. They already just spent $100,000, $150,000 on the backyard and they already bought all this other stuff.

Will Hanke (11:18)
Okay.

Josh Tycksen (11:43)
We have a series that we try to do with them where we connect to those guys a year later. They’ve moved in now, they’ve gone through a lot of that first year of living in a home and now they’re ready for phase two. Right around March, April, there’s a really good opportunity to capitalize on that when they’re getting their tax returns, to send out good information and follow up. You do it in an effort to offer your help and assistance. If they have any questions about the products they got, if they’re running into any issues, if they feel like they need any additional chargers for their shades.

You know, or if they want to get the home automation kit now since they chose not to, but then also offering, did you realize, you know, that maybe you’re short on other products? Did you want to cover some of those windows? didn’t. Do you need solar screens to block the sun out? Do you want patio shades to make an indoor outdoor room? So the new build percentage for interior treatment, that is very high percentage.

Will Hanke (12:34)
Yeah. Vince, are you guys seeing something similar in the Carolinas?

Vince Sturkie (12:38)
Absolutely. It’s huge. And having been through the mortgage crisis of 08 where people stopped building homes and stopped buying homes, I mean it’s strong enough business increase that you’d lose sleep over it if you thought about what happens if it stops because it would be noticeable. Yeah, we would miss that piece of the business because it’s like Josh said, they have to buy window treatments. They’re not going to live in a $7,000- $800,000 home.

with paper shades for long. So at the end of the day, they’re buyers. All they need to do is like you, like your stuff, like your price, and they’re ready to write you a check. So we count on that part of the business, and we count on you. That’s where our digital marketing guru comes in, because we count on you to help keep our name in front of those people. They’re the hardest group to find on the internet, because realtors are looking for new movers.

And so when you’re trying to compete with them for the new movers, you know, it gets a little dicey because there’s a lot of money being spent trying to get that person’s attention because everybody wants the guy buying or building the house.

Will Hanke (13:46)
Sure. Yeah.

Josh Tycksen (13:48)
I found a lot of the biggest success we have in that is the neighborhood Facebook groups. If you find a new neighborhood and there’s construction going up and you get a customer and you can get in, you can get them to not just give you a review, but post something on the neighborhood Facebook group. It is the biggest return on investment you’ll ever get. matter what you offer them, you get somebody, a troll, a little Facebook troll in their neighborhood group who wants to be social with everybody there to give you some good, some good cloud in there.

We’ve done whole streets of homes on both sides.

Vince Sturkie (14:18)
That’s exactly

right. We probably got 20 in one neighborhood and it’s all because one gal is on Facebook promoting us all the time and it just goes like one after the other at that point because nothing’s better than the neighbor deal.

Will Hanke (14:35)
Yeah, similar approach for Nextdoor. We rolled out Nextdoor ads three or four months ago now. Josh, I think you started doing some of that.

Josh Tycksen (14:44)
return on those is fantastic. Way better than get from Google, at least I think so. It’s kind of hard for me to see which is which, but I just wanted to change the focus of our next door ads because most of it was coming back with patio shades and those are very labor heavy install. So growth in a different direction to be preferred, but we’ll take it really good from next door too. think that’s a very untapped market.

Will Hanke (15:12)
It really is. So they just rolled out their new ad platform maybe three or four months ago. We started rolling ours out shortly after that, or the ability to do the ads on there. And 50 % of our clients have already called back and said, let’s do more budget there. So I definitely think it’s something worth paying attention to. like you guys say, it’s very similar to the Facebook groups for the individual subdivisions or parts of town, that kind of stuff.

So another question, you guys made it through 2024, congrats. This year has been a very high peak, low valley kind of thing. It seems like you’re either on fire, Josh nine leads in one day and then probably nothing for a week or so. You know, it’s really these ups and downs are crazy. Did you guys experience that same kind of thing? And if so, what was kind of one of the biggest lessons that you learned this year?

Vince Sturkie (16:13)
For me, know, Will, I switched over, you know, I came on board with you a year ago. You know, so my first quarter of the year was the transition quarter where, you know, you dip before you rip. And so we were in panic mode at the first part of the year. But then as time went on, it just got better and better and better and better. you know, my reps are coming in from Graber and Alta and Norman and Hunter. They’re saying we’re 20 % down.

Will Hanke (16:13)
Vince, let’s start with

Vince Sturkie (16:43)
You should be 20 % down. That’s kind of the industry across the board. We’re not closing out this year 20 % lower than last year. We’re going to be right on par to close out the same year with probably about 5 or 6 % more in profit off of the same gross sales. I think we’re actually, this is our best year since I got back at it five years ago. So it’s encouraging when you hear that sales are down and you’re not.

And you know that but that’s been the word on the street, but I think I Think all things all things pointed in the right direction I think 25s could be the best year that I’ve seen since I’ve back in it five years ago Unless something dramatically shifts or a black swan event in the economy. I think it’s going forward. I think it’s going to be fantastic I’m thankful for this year. I you know, I’m thankful that

You know, I had the confidence to switch marketing companies a year ago and get involved with somebody that I thought could keep me going. I think my switch is part of what has helped me not to decline this year when I know that some of the guys around me are off, have laid off a few people. The bigger houses, especially the 20 member crews, are down a little bit. The reps are telling me this.

You know, I’m pretty thankful where we are. I attribute a lot of that to, you know, to Winnitreatment Marketing Pros. And I’m pretty optimistic for 25.

Will Hanke (18:20)
Thank you for all the kind words. appreciate that. That’s really nice. Josh, what do you think over the last year?

Josh Tycksen (18:26)
Yeah, very similar. mean, 13 days left in the month, 14 if you count the 31st or Christmas, but we were on a blitz last year. Alta, custom brands group offers, they have their little sales benchmark you got to get to for their Blue Diamond Elite Club, the top of the top. And I was like $65,000 away in cost of good sales. And I just said, you know what? I think I could do it. I normally would invest maybe $3,000 a month in ad spend.

And we probably did 9, 9,400 that month instead, because I just said, I’m taking every single freaking thing I can get. I was almost giving stuff away so I could hit that benchmark because I saw it didn’t cost me as much. I’d get a $25,000 credit from CVG. I’d win an extra trip for my installer and his wife. You know, there were other benefits to it on top of the fact of just staying busy in a month that’s slow. So it was kind of annoying and it was during Christmas to get a lot that many calls and whatnot, but

Coming year over year and comparing them, we’re probably very similar to what Vince said where we’re going to finish around somewhere between five to 7 % higher in sales than we did a year ago. So we’ve already passed it. We’re five to 7 % ahead of it today. So I don’t have my everything floored right now in marketing where I’m adding onto it. the next two weeks, like I did a year ago either.

And our profit percentage is almost the same. It’s less than a tenth of a percent of different for gross profit on those deals and stuff. So it’s been a lot more consistent year. It’s been a lot easier this year than it was a year ago. Those first few years making a lot of adjustments and getting used to the way things flow. I would also go ahead and give you mad props. The window treatment marketing process has been a huge benefit to us in that area. There’s the struggles as a new business owner to feeling that

Spend where my first two years didn’t spend a dime. I bought four hundred four thousand postcards From like vista print and I would just go put them up in the new build neighborhoods If I wasn’t working around appointments I’d be putting them up and getting those out and plastering houses with those postcards and that was a great return For what I’d spend is the whole all those postcards cost me 400 bucks. I still have some That was the only money I spent and then somebody convinced me that I should work with you guys and have you do my website two years ago

Will Hanke (20:44)
you

Josh Tycksen (20:51)
And I was like, I don’t know, was like a thousand bucks or 1500 a month or something. I just could not stomach that. But I was like, I’ll give it a shot. Three to six months, you know, cause you guys told me you can’t, you cannot make your decision here in the first 90 days. You’ve got to wait 90 days, if not at least six months. said, okay, it kept getting better. So then I was like, great, what if we put money into it? It kept getting better. And then it’s just figuring out how to even that out and realizing that if I track my numbers, there’s trends, whether I pay for marketing or not.

There’s trends of when it goes up and when it goes down. There’s holidays and school starting and stopping. There’s elections and all these other weird things. So yeah, like he said, black swan events and stuff, something totally out of the ordinary could dramatically impact how 2025 goes. But I think I’m getting a little bit more business mature in being able to handle the ups and downs and just telling my people, don’t worry about it. You’re still paid this week. Just go get some projects done at home. it’s, but when I call you, I’m going to need you.

because it’s going to get crazy, you know, coming up in the next few weeks or based on the last four years, April’s going to be freaking nuts, you know, so.

I remember what the question was anymore.

Will Hanke (21:59)
That was really the biggest valuable lesson that you got this year.

Josh Tycksen (22:04)
yeah, just having those numbers, having a history to track off of has really helped me to relax and sleep a little better and be a lot more cool. Or you’ll see my emails coming in far less than they used to with how much I was freaking out about everything and every dollar spent and realizing that some things take time to kind of see how they’re going to work. And there will be some dips and some peaks, but there’s not one answer for everything.

Will Hanke (22:32)
Yeah,

yeah. Thank you again for the kind comments. So outside of marketing decision that you made, what was the other best decision you made over the course of the last year that really helped your business grow? Josh?

Josh Tycksen (22:50)
Opening up our portfolio. We would maybe do one patio shade a month. I wouldn’t focus on it. I put marketing money into it this year and that’s really helped us even out. Even if it’s just keeping my people busy because those installs are very labor heavy. It takes two people, two hours if everything goes perfect to put one of those up.

That’s one shade, you know, for four or 5,000 bucks, if you’re running around a 50 % margin. And it’s just really labor heavy compared to like, if I send my guy yesterday, he was on a $12,000 job to put up 33 rollers and did it in four hours. know, but bringing that on and diversifying and adding that gave us a whole market we already had where we could reach out to all of our customers.

And we just did it personally instead of with email campaign campaigns. I just kind of went through and I could already check people off the list who I didn’t have that in their backyard or their space. They didn’t have room for it. Or I could just tell us like, that’s a long shot, you know, but adding that having another thing that we could call them and sell when we’ve already built a good rapport with them. That was a good one for us this year. Our repeat customers this year, and this is our fourth year in business, but our repeat customers this year was a

big percentage. wasn’t like 2%, 5%. It was like 16 % of our customers this year are repeats. That was insane. And I’m trying to figure a lot of them, it was into new homes, but a lot of them, was adding more, you know? And then, I don’t know, it’s not really repeat, but referrals still from those same loyal customers has been a good percentage of that base too.

Will Hanke (24:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, it’s interesting you mentioned the exterior stuff. I’ve said this on some other videos. I think two years ago, we might have had 5 % of our clients that offered exterior, 5 % of our window treatment clients that offered exterior. And now that’s probably 32, 33 % of our clients are offering exterior. Vince, are you guys doing any exterior stuff or thinking about it?

Vince Sturkie (24:55)
we are thinking about it we you know i refer that out i got a big company a twenty member team right next door to me almost i’m friends with the owner i send him all the bahama shutters i send him all the exterior track system type shades for porches and stuff they do all that stuff and they’re good at it they’re pretty they’re very pricey so i have to warn the customers that you’re you’re they’re not friendly vince with the money they’re gonna you’re gonna see tickets like you’ve never seen before when they get there but

you know, I have to kind of preset it, but, I refer that out now. We’re going to add some product next year. We’re just not sure exactly which one to grab hold to and learn. you know, but we do, we do believe we can grow with product adding product next year that we’re not doing now. I think the biggest thing this past year though, will that’s helped us is I decided at the first of the year to own Google to post open every Saturday from nine to 12, not all day.

because what I did in a quick Google search is realized in my market nobody is open on Saturday. And so I would come down to the office, I was already coming to the office, hanging around the warehouse, cleaning my truck, doing something anyway. So what I’m doing is I’m spending a few hours at the office on Saturday mornings. I’m catching leads by people who go on Google and they say, hey, we need to schedule an appointment to get some shutters for our new home.

They’re only off on Saturday. They take care of those types of things on Saturday. Being open on Saturday has been a competitive advantage that I think probably all total has gotten me 50 or 60 new leads this past year that, you know, I believe at a 70, 80 % close ratio on an in-home appointment, think it really made a big difference for us. And then the second thing that helped me this year is the Norman rep.

told me if I’m standing in front of a sliding glass door to pitch the Smart Drape over something lesser expensive, like a vertical. And I started pitching that thing and nobody knows what it is. They’ve never seen it. Norman’s the most invisible company out there. And I started pitching the Smart Drape, sold one yesterday. It’s a product that if anybody’s ever bought a Luminette, you can triple margin that product. You can

You can get good money on that type of product. So there’s little things like that that I just stay disciplined to do that I’ve seen. You know, I’m probably the worst up seller in the world. I’m a down seller probably more than an up seller. It’s just the way I’m built. But people resonate toward my crazy nature of sales where I try to talk people into spending less because it’s better. It’s just not my style to upsell. So I try to stay middle of the road.

Will Hanke (27:32)
You

Vince Sturkie (27:50)
Those are the little things I did this year that I think made a difference.

Will Hanke (27:54)
That’s really interesting. The three or four hours on a Saturday has really profited you, I guess, at the end of the day just by doing something you were all kind of already doing anyway.

Vince Sturkie (28:03)
Yeah, I was gonna be here either way.

Will Hanke (28:05)
Yeah, I love that. That’s fantastic. So thank you guys for sharing that. I wanted to talk real quick about regional differences. So Vince, you’re in the Carolinas and you did mention earlier that you’re doing some specific products. Is there anything that you see more than you have in the past or things that are surprisingly similar to other parts of the country?

Vince Sturkie (28:32)
For us here, most of these new builds that we’re working on, which is big percentage of our business, those buyers are not local buyers. Most of those are coming from somewhere else because Greenville’s in the top 25 places to move to according to the National Association of Realtors. And those people that are coming are coming for the warmer temperatures and lower cost of living. A lot of them have white hair. They’re more like me than they are like Josh. And you know…

They’re coming and they’re wanting things that they bought in the past which are plantation shutters. That’s a biggie for an older mature seasoned buyer. He’s probably had shutters before. He’s gonna wanna buy those. We’re seeing more requests for folks in the shutters than we do having folks call for shades. Now if we get somebody moving up out of Florida, moving halfway back to the northeast,

They might be talking shades, but a lot of them are also going to be talking shutters because they’re coming out of a heavy shutter market in South Florida. you know, shutters have been big for us this year. Probably more growth in shutters than anything. Shades, I thought, would be our biggest, you know, it just seems like shutters seems to still be ruling, you know, unless we can just turn them. I don’t like taking away.

If somebody calls for shutters, I want to stay on the course and give them what they called for. Because sometimes you can try to do a takeaway for an easier install and quicker turnaround on that client. But at the end of the day, I like to leave people with where their heart sits. And if they say shutters, it’s the greatest product I’ve ever sold, so I say love it.

Will Hanke (30:12)
Right. Yeah, totally makes sense. Josh, I know you’re in Arizona in a pretty hot part of the country. Is there anything that’s on fire in your area?

Josh Tycksen (30:23)
There’s some seasonal trends I’ve noticed. Solar screens, there are these outside products, they’re not a high profit margin thing for us, but I found a company who goes out, measures them, builds them, brings them out and installs them. And so I can just sell, I mean, I’ve almost got my assistant completely taking over that division because she can do quotes and everything with just pictures and not have to go to their house at all. And so she feels incentivized.

Again, adding new products. Norman has the Smart Drape, like he said, and you know, when they flew us up there to VIP and, you know, treat us all special and takes over, you know, will the simple with Norman takes you over to their little shop there. That’s not like a, it feels like a storefront, but it’s actually for them to bring in reps and really train you on their products. And when they did that and showed us the, you know, the, the Smart Drape, that’s been a good ad for us. it’s not cranking yet in terms of, just.

where we go to for covering our sliding doors and stuff yet, but it’s another option that we get to provide now instead of just roller shades or honeycomb and nobody really likes to do vertical blinds. Same with Norman has this special blackout where they have sidetracks and it’s called 360 blackout. And that is insane. Where we’ll get calls to black out a master bedroom or a baby’s bedroom or just different places in a home.

You know, we just say add X to any window if you want complete blackout. And sometimes people go nuts for that. So it’s, kind of a differentiator that you can have where other people say blackout. So when people say, Hey, we need blackout. And I have to stop them. Hey, hold on. What do you mean blackout? Cause there’s room darkening is kind of the industry term that’s being referred to now where there’s blackout where you’re thinking there’s no light in the room. What are you asking about? And sometimes, no, we’re good. Just a darker room. And some people know I can’t have any light.

Will Hanke (32:03)
You

Josh Tycksen (32:18)
where it’s good that you clarified or they might have thought that a regular blackout shade would actually black out their room.

Will Hanke (32:25)
Interesting. So speaking of regional different things. I wanted to ask you guys about your local networks I think somebody mentioned realtors earlier on. How are you guys building out those local referral networks? Josh will go to you

Josh Tycksen (32:41)
I’m a member of BNI, Business Networking International. I just got back from that meeting. It’s every Tuesday morning at eight o’clock for a couple hours. There’s 50 other people in there that are specific to their own trades that they do. so I have 50 other people out there who are committed to, you know, making sure I get referred if they know anybody else looking for window treatments. You know, and we’re all in that ballpark for each other, you know, that I’ve got, I know somebody who does this or does that. And so I’ve got

a referral list as well that I modified my quote where when they, I print it out, I’ll show up at a home, I’ll do my stuff. And then I just say, if I have 10 or 15 minutes, I can print this for you right now. And they always say, great, that’d be awesome. So I just do it real quick on the computer. And when I print it, it flips the page over now on the backside says, what else are you looking for? Here’s some trusted people we’ve worked with that do flooring, roofing, landscaping, other home services trades. And it was mostly a benefit to them.

when we started doing that, it’s circled around now we’ve been doing it long enough where they’re always pushing for us now because, you know, if we have 45 leads or 35 closed deals in a month, that I would bet 20 to 25 % of them are flipping that over and calling some of those people.

Will Hanke (33:58)
That’s great. I think anytime you can be a resource for people, you still look good in their eyes, even if you just referred them to somebody that can do it better. You still got a little check mark in their mind, right? So that’s always helpful. Vince, how about you?

Vince Sturkie (34:10)
Mm-hmm.

know B &I is great. I actually founded a B &I years ago when I was in mortgage banking. I have preached B &I for years. There’s five chapters in my town. There’s no window treatment slots available or I’d be in one. They stay pretty booked up with a window treatment consultant in them. So it’s kind of got me out of it for the moment. But I will wind up back in a B &I when my turn comes up. For me,

I use networking, if I’m in a neighborhood and there’s a model home at the entrance, I’m not leaving turning out of that neighborhood without stopping and walking in and telling that attendant of that model home, hey, I’m working in a house in here. If anyone buying a hall mask, we’d love to help them with their window treatments. I just try to use the boots on the ground stuff that’s easy, hitting those model homes, hitting those real estate agents when they meet you at the house to unlock the door to let you in to measure.

for the out of town client, know, try to use that as a chance to introduce myself in what we do. And it is making a difference. Well, I get referrals from builders and realtors I’ve never even heard of. These people need to refer people and they’ll refer people they don’t even know if they don’t know someone and they’re asked for a referral. I’ve done it. So, you know,

Will Hanke (35:27)
You

Vince Sturkie (35:40)
It definitely makes a difference to get your card in front of those people and try to keep it there because they will refer people. They need to because people don’t know people.

Will Hanke (35:51)
Yeah, referral traffic obviously always a little bit warmer as well, right? A little easier to close. So that definitely helps having those relationships and building those relationships as time goes on.

Vince Sturkie (36:03)
right.

Will Hanke (36:05)
So I wanted to ask quick about technology. So I know that technology is always changing from the smart home side, the motorization side, but even from just the running a business side. So how are you guys leveraging different digital tools in your networking and in your client relationships?

Josh Tycksen (36:25)
Vince, you’re probably going to take the cake on this. I used to run restaurants. had several restaurants I was in charge of down here in Arizona. That’s why I moved here. And I got so sick of every employee that was under me. All their problems started to become my problems that I got really sick of big, big crews and big staffs and lots of people. So when I switched to this, I was myself and I loved it for so long because I had total control of my schedule. And then it got, you know,

naturally got kind of worn out. I brought on some help to at least do the installs. And I’ve gone through where I’ve brought on a little more, where I’ve trimmed down to a little bit less, but you sound like you’ve got a full on store and several people and a couple of different trucks doing installs and know, three, four different people doing your sales where I systems are a hundred percent mandatory for you to function right without all those hiccups. You know, I’m still very caveman on a lot of that stuff. Cause I find is I’ve

This is where I need the most work. There’s so much opportunity for me here, but I get annoyed with the delay. Most of those systems, if I bring in some sort of a ordering portal system that maybe makes it simpler to work between all of my team and the customer and the payment systems and whatever in the schedule, it adds two weeks onto our install time, it seems like, because those orders just take forever to submit or whatever. I haven’t found solutions that I’ve been patient with.

never get it that i think too much into productive word sometimes get that done on sitting here

Vince Sturkie (37:55)
Well, I get it because you can probably do more with your cell phone than I can with a $50,000 processor sitting in front of me. I am a little more old school. So the technology that people are able to, things they can do on their phones, I can’t even do them. But the one thing that has helped me is we have our quoting software, so that gets us into the digital agent quoting.

We have Blanco and we have Will with Lead Boomerang, is really, to me, I know that we’re capturing more leads because of Lead Boomerang than we were when we were simply answering the phone or getting a web form submitted, which was what we were before the days of Winda Treatment Marketing Pro. So I think technology-wise there, I think those things have been huge for us.

Josh Tycksen (38:25)
Which software do you guys use? OK.

Vince Sturkie (38:55)
I have a lot of room to grow in this. I don’t trust things. I mean, I test my phone number almost daily. I go online and I pull the numbers we’re using for tracking. I’m calling them because I’m scared they’re not working, especially on the days I don’t get any calls. I’m like, okay, what’s wrong with the phone number? And sometimes, believe it not, I found the numbers not working because something’s unplugged.

But at the end of the day, I would say, I confess, I probably have a very weak link in technology, in what I could be doing versus what I am doing. I’m always, I mean, I talk to people who call here wanting to sell us things to help us, just because I’m hopeful they might have a good idea that I need. When all they really want to do is take window treatment marketing pros away and start doing it for me. I’m like, no.

Will will tell you, it takes me years to trust somebody. I talked to Will Hank you five years ago and it took me four to get on board. So I roll a little too slow some days.

Will Hanke (39:55)
you

Yeah.

Josh Tycksen (40:03)
I mean, there’s still, yeah, so it sounds like we’re feeling the same there. I’ve worked with my blind co, they’re just, I don’t remember what it was that frustrated me. And I think it was just the delays if you submit through the portal and waiting. And I tell my customers 95 % of our orders this year, this is an accurate number, 95 % of our orders this year have been installed in 30 days or less. We’re averaging 23 days right now from sale to install. And that’s really a powerful tool or a really powerful sales, you know.

point to make that people appreciate when they’re moving into a new home and they’re want you installing the day after they close or they just moved in and now they’re feeling vulnerable or whatever. But even if it’s as simple as just having very organized photos on your phones, you can flip open and go to whatever type of product they’re looking for to be able to show them an example real quick. This is a stupid example. I use it often, but in the iPhone, they have a thing called predictive text. I think if you go to general and then keyboard,

They have these text replacement phrases. I have thousands where if I type, you know, there’s a built-in one, it’s OMW becomes on my way. Well, I’ve built it in now where I have videos. If you want to know about an automated shade, I can go AR1, AR2, AR3, whatever I type in pulls up a different YouTube link and sends it to them so they can see a video demo of that. And so when somebody says, what’s, we don’t really know what’s trending in homes right now. We’re kind of open to it. I have one trend one and it sends them a video of

what we’re seeing lately, you know, and then there’s, I mean, I don’t even know how to go off on that, that I have thousands of those terms in my phone and I’m used to it where GM becomes good morning or I have, you know, I mean, a whole, the things you type over and over, you get sick of typing to people, your address, your email, your whatever, all of them are three digit short codes for me that somehow I have memorized and I just, I don’t want to type that anymore. As soon as I ever feel that I don’t want to type that anymore. I go in and type it up in there.

Will Hanke (41:40)
That’s fantastic.

Josh Tycksen (42:02)
And that way I can just remember whatever three letters it was to send out to somebody. And that’s really sped up communication and simplified things for them. Cause then they get a video that explains all the things they’re probably going to start asking me. know, so there’s, there are advantages to a lot of the technology that we use. This is a perfect example. You’re doing a podcast. If other people are tuned in and watching, they could be finding solutions as we chat, you know, so there’s

Vince Sturkie (42:15)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Will Hanke (42:28)
I love

that. I love the shortcut.

Josh Tycksen (42:29)
I’m not very good with

the systems part, bringing all those systems in to help me, but yeah, that’s a little technology thing I like to use that I think helps.

Will Hanke (42:33)
Yeah.

That’s awesome. Well, I thank you guys for being on. As we kind of switch, I do want to continue to talk a little bit about technology, but I want to get into 2025. What are some of the emerging technologies that you guys are starting to come across or that you’ve seen and you can’t wait to kind of get your hands on? Vince?

Vince Sturkie (42:57)
gee, I don’t know of anything. mean, maybe I’m out of touch. But I think that one of the things I’m not using that I know exist is being able to put the customer’s windows on my iPad and then dress their windows within the software that the vendors are providing us. Dress their windows with a specific treatment so they can see that roller shade in their window in their home.

That exists with a couple of people that we’re dealing with. I’m not currently using that, but I’m hearing good feedback that a customer actually told me they showed me a picture of my window with the treatment in it. And I’m like, wow, I’d heard about this from Graber. And they showed me how the app worked, where we could do it. I just have not embraced that technology yet. I see where that could be a big plus.

Especially when you’re standing in front of that customer and most of them aren’t like this, but they’re looking all off into space, they’re lost as a goose, they don’t know what to do, and you’re trying to reel them down to a decision on what direction to go with the product. And they’re just not, you’re talking roller shades, honeycomb, sheer shades, you’re talking about a lot of different things, they don’t know what’s going on, you gotta get it in front of them, they gotta be able to see it.

I’ve got it all loaded on my iPad as far as the products, but I think the show and tell or show and sale really works in our business. I had a lady jump out of her skin yesterday on the Smart Drape and I just flipped my iPad around, showed her what it looked like, the video that Norman puts out. She was ready to pick the fabric. before she saw the product, she didn’t have any idea what it cost. So I think…

That technology is the piece that I would definitely want to try to add in next year. You know, now that this, you know, that’s something I believe will help us.

Will Hanke (44:57)
Yeah, yeah, I would say from a marketing website standpoint, our clients always have high traffic on their gallery related pages. On any of the pages that have pictures and videos, people just want to kind of envision what their home could potentially look like. So it makes total sense that that tool where you can actually take a picture of theirs and show it to them, that’s pretty amazing. That’s awesome. Josh, what are you looking forward to in 2025?

Vince Sturkie (45:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Josh Tycksen (45:27)
Yeah, I mean, I’ve heard kind of what he’s talking about over there. I don’t have a lot of that. You know, I mostly sell from two brands right now. I mean, I’ve got, there’s more than that, but it feels like the more brands I open up to, harder it becomes to teach this to other people. You know, just, so I don’t know. I do want to offer anyway, that’s, that’s drifting, but, I like how you said show and sale. I think that’s a really good example. We get people off and they go, okay, cool. That video you just showed me. Do you have that with this fabric? Like, no.

It’s hard enough to organize an automated version of that product, let alone with this valance and that color. You know, there’s a competitor out here, another vendor we compete against or share the value with, and they have a thing where on their website you can build your shutter. That seems simple enough to me, just color, size of louvers, frame and control. But it seems like it’s an impossible thing to get, you know, that they seem to be the only one I know that can do that. Nobody cares to even

venture to figure out how to help me get that widget that somebody could just click on and click on this option, this option, and this option to see the color, the frame style, the size of the louvers, and whether it’s got a tilt rod or not, what it looks like. People see that and they go, yes, that’s what I my shirt to look like. And they could be convinced at that point. And that’s enough. As long as you show up and you don’t offend them or they’re not blown out by the price, they’re going to close. know, that kind of technology I think will continue to develop and be easier.

and more integrated into our processes. I’m excited to see who figures out making things easier for us in that realm. I’ve just started, somebody convinced me, I felt like an old fool to start using ChatGPT and I’ve got it now as like one of the key apps. Like all my apps are in folders. Every app on my phone is on one page except for ChatGPT by itself on the next page with my Bitcoin widget. But ChatGPT now has become something on the daily where

Will Hanke (47:15)
You

Josh Tycksen (47:24)
I’m stopping myself from responding to people and a customer might ask me a question or somebody sent me a text this morning and said, I got my other quote, they’re about $1,200 less than you. I really liked all your stuff, but I’m having a hard time deciding why I should work with you instead of them. And I asked chat GP, I put that text into chat GPT and asked them for a response and I sent it to them and they’re like, you’re right. Okay, let’s go. And I thought that was amazing.

You know, I go to BNI now and I don’t even write my own commercial anymore. say, write me a 15 second limerick that’s funny, that has to do with Christmas and my business. And it knows my stuff and it wrote a limerick, you know, about, I don’t know what it was, but everyone loved it. I got best commercial today. You know, it’s so silly, you know? So yeah, there’s stuff out there that like he says, you know, he’s excited about people calling him, offering him things to help with.

Will Hanke (47:59)
you

You

That’s awesome.

Josh Tycksen (48:20)
I dodge those calls quite a bit, but I do actively look for things I’m looking for. And I think that we need to not be closed off to that because some things are going to simplify and free up our time, which the older we get, we realize more and more is our most valuable asset. Now I’m excited to see what kind of stuff pops out here too and start implementing more of this, figure out how I can implement some of that artificial intelligence because I just, I’m like,

I’m asking it now how to respond to my wife when she sends me a text. And I’m like, it sounds so stupid. And it’s immediate. And I’m like, all right, I almost have a paid for subscription. Not yet. I’m sure I’ll be there.

Will Hanke (48:50)
Ha ha ha!

Vince Sturkie (48:51)
yeah.

Will Hanke (48:54)
That’s awesome.

Great.

I love it. That’s fantastic. ChatGPT is great. AI in general, I think, is going to dominate this year. We’re actually testing some AI booking bots right now for some clients and things like that that want to save time on just taking those initial calls. some of

Josh Tycksen (49:19)
Well, see, and I’ve tried

that with a call service and they tell us and I tried it, but then I would listen to those calls and these guys were getting so frustrated. That was like, I’m losing these appointments because this person can’t just answer that. You know, I just said, simplify, just set the appointment. But then it was a bunch of appointments with stuff. It’s like, okay, we didn’t need an appointment for that. You know, and screening it kind of still had to go through. But I think that will develop and be faster. But you could hear on the calls, they’d be waiting.

And then getting a response and I was like, that was too long for me. I can’t handle that. I’d be going crazy if I was a customer. I would not feel important. I would feel thrown into a system. So I don’t know. There’s a balance that I think will eventually even out to be to our advantage, but a lot of it I haven’t seen there yet. Doesn’t mean somebody else doesn’t figure it out. I guarantee there’s not only one person out there trying to figure out this answering service for us that will work for a window treatment industry, but.

Will Hanke (49:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, I would agree. think the timing.

Josh Tycksen (50:18)
All the people I’m seeing it do that referred me to it from HVAC, doesn’t seem to cut it yet.

Will Hanke (50:25)
Yeah, I definitely think AI is gonna be a big part of the coming year. All right, one more thing, as we close out, I really appreciate all you guys taking the time really to share everything about your business and some things for 2025. Josh, if there was one thing that you could tell another window treatment business, specifically about 2025, what would you say to them? What would you recommend that be their approach?

Josh Tycksen (50:56)
I I would assume the more I go to networking meetings and coaching and the more I subscribe to that as I get older, realizing that there’s a network of people there with answers to the same questions I have just in a different industry. I wouldn’t be afraid to invest in yourself or your business. would, you know, that was what slowed me down. I mean, I was learning. So it was good that I didn’t do too much that first year. would have bitten off more than I could have chewed and I would have done bad jobs. But

you know, establish your values and stick to them and make guide your decisions with those. You know, we’ll go over our core values as a business each day, whether it’s me and two people or me and seven people, where we go through those so that people don’t, they stop calling me or texting me on how to solve a problem. And I say, cause my answer comes back, I’ll respond with one of those core values. I’m looking at them right now, or I’ll just send them the list and say, how do you apply this? And later we might talk about it. So I can say, cool. That was a good solution.

We probably could have been more cost effective or more time effective in this regard. So you’ll learn if that ever happens again, this is how you’d apply that. But you stuck with our values. So they’re still going to love us and we’re still going to get five stars, right? And that kind of stuff. So I think having those values defined as a business, not where it’s like, here’s our core values and they’re printed somewhere and nobody could recite them, but like we read them every day. And that was a coaching aspect that we got that I from the coaching group that I was submitted to subscribed with. And that makes a big difference.

I really do believe in that.

Will Hanke (52:26)
I think I mentioned to you earlier, think hiring a business coach was one of the best things I could have ever done. Just having that other set of eyes, right? Helping you see your business from a different standpoint. thanks for sharing that. Vince, what about you? And what do you think would be a good thing to tell a window treatment company for the coming year?

Vince Sturkie (52:48)
Well I wouldn’t want to tell the guys down the street this a block away but nationally, first thing I would tell them is to fall in love with what you do if you don’t already love it. Because you need to walk into every home glad you’re there, loving that person, loving the opportunity to help them. If you don’t have that, you better get it. Because you’re gonna hate this business next year if you don’t. Because it’s hard…

Will Hanke (52:51)
You

Josh Tycksen (53:14)
I’m

Vince Sturkie (53:15)
Walking into a home is the hardest thing a person can do. They don’t know these people. You’ve got to develop a friendship. You’ve got to come across as an expert to them, be helpful. And if you don’t love what you do, you better fall in love with it. After that, you better find marketing people that you can trust because this business is not going to work without marketing. You better have a marketing guy behind you that you trust. It’s going to take care of you.

Josh Tycksen (53:35)
Bingo!

Vince Sturkie (53:45)
that you’re gonna invest your money with and then don’t be afraid to spend your money because I mean, customers get customers. If you have to pay to get customers, in a perfect world, they’d all be referrals, they’d already know who you are, they’d have a 95 % close rate, but we don’t live in a perfect world. We live in a transitory deal where we got people coming from all over, they don’t know who we are.

So we’ve got to find a way to reach them. We’re going to reach them through digital marketing. So I would say don’t be afraid to get out there in the digital marketing world. Take that risk to develop that relationship. know, Josh and I were texting a while back and you know, you know, we’re always frustrated with different things and different parts of our businesses. But the one thing is when you have somebody you trust, you wrap your arms around them and you go with them because that’s a difficult.

That’s a difficult thing to establish in marketing. Whether it be any type of marketing, but primarily being digital. So I’d say fall in love with what you do. Find a digital marketing company you trust. Grab a hold to them and then stay in the know on what you’re doing and don’t stop because this is a working business. This is not a sit at home and make money business. You’ve got to be in the truck, on the road, on the phone. You’ve got to be either talking to customers, talking to installers. You’ve got to be working.

So if you don’t want to work next year, get away from this. Because this is an earn your money business, but it’s a great business to be in if you’re willing to work.

Will Hanke (55:13)
you

That’s great. Vince, Josh, thank you. Thank you for the commercial. But thank you guys for your time and sharing your unique perspectives and experiences. I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to do this. If you enjoyed this episode of Marketing Pains, please consider subscribing. And we’ll have more episodes. We put one out every other Tuesday. And it’s always interviews, whether it’s other dealers or vendors, a lot of different people that we’re trying to.

get in front of you to give you more value. We appreciate your time. So please consider subscribing. Josh, Vince, one last time. Thank you guys so much for jumping on today. I appreciate it.

Vince Sturkie (55:59)
You bet, thanks Will.

Josh Tycksen (56:01)
My pleasure, thanks.

Will Hanke (56:03)
Thanks everyone, we’ll see you in the next episode.

Guest Profile: David Soria

David has been in the industry since the mid 90s before joining America’s Window Covering Buying Network in 2021. His previous experiences include in-home sales for a local retailer and sales management as well as field sales for national brand suppliers to the industry.

Other Notes/Links:

To learn more about David Soria visit:

America’s Window Covering Buying Network

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Transcript

William Hanke (00:02)
All right, hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today’s guest is David Soria. David has been in the window treatment industry since the mid 90s before joining America’s Window Covering Buying Network in 2021.

His previous experiences include in-home sales for a local retailer and sales management, as well as field sales for national brand suppliers to the industry. David, thank you so much for being on today.

David Soria (00:43)
welcome.

William Hanke (00:45)
Excited to have you here and kind of talk through a little bit about what’s known as the network, I guess, right? Yeah, awesome. So why don’t you start out by sharing a little bit of background about your journey, obviously, in the window treatment industry and some key roles that have helped you kind of shape your expertise.

David Soria (00:51)
Yep, that’s right.

Sure, sure. You I got started in the industry when I answered a newspaper one ad, if you remember those, looking for a salesperson, somebody who might have an interest in design and who would be doing shop at home sales for that company. at the time I’d done some in-home sales, had a background in theater design and also in teaching.

William Hanke (01:15)
You

David Soria (01:33)
And the job sounded interesting. And this was for a fairly large window coverings retailer in the Chicago area. And when I started with them, they had over a dozen shop at home decorators working for them, big company. They had their own workroom, made their own drapery, vertical, shears, top treatments. And, you know, talk about a nice problem. They were drowning in leads. I got a two week

crash course in their showroom on blind shades and drapery and then I started taking sales calls. I mentioned that they were busy. I still remember I took 20 in-home calls my first full week with them. Mostly for hard treatments but still 20. A of customers to see. The owner had really great plans to expand.

William Hanke (02:21)
Wow.

David Soria (02:28)
eventually moved me into a supervisory role doing ride-alongs with the team, training, setting up promotions, working with the general manager and our marketing manager to develop programs and incentives. At the time, I didn’t know that the owner was building up some debt behind the scenes and that eventually caught up with him and forced him to close. I was fortunate enough to leave before that happened.

I then went to work as a territory rep for a hard treatment fabricator that had recently expanded into the Midwest. I was with them for some really tremendous growth and change at that company and the industry. We saw our product mix shift dramatically from more commodity products like verticals and cellular into the explosion of interest in horizontal woods then.

natural shade category and really the first big wave of screen shades and motorization. That company was eventually purchased by a larger national company right around the time of the 07-08 financial crisis and a number of years later they got absorbed into another company. I continued with them for a number of years before I moved on.

wanted to make a change, do less travel and have more time with my family. But it was a great way to learn about the industry. I couldn’t have asked for a better training ground. Having a chance to do the shop at home taught me a ton about product sales and the challenges that designers and retailers face every day. That in turn made me a better territory rep for the two companies I worked with.

you know, walked in the dealer’s shoes before. So I knew how important training, follow-up and the dealer support really could be. Now, as you said, I’ve been with America’s Window Covering Buying Network almost four years now as national sales manager. And that gives me an opportunity to really synthesize a lot of those previous experiences as I work with our account team, our members and our vendors.

William Hanke (04:52)
Yeah, I love the fact that you’re kind of homegrown, right? You’ve already walked the walk and you understand what they’re going through now, right? And the kind of struggles that they have, even down to the point of understanding the in-home sales process. I love that.

David Soria (05:07)
Yeah, yeah, and it is a process.

William Hanke (05:10)
Very good. Yeah. Yeah. So all that brings you to what we call the network. And tell me a little bit about AWS CBN as an overview.

David Soria (05:18)
Yeah.

Yeah, sure. America’s Window Covering Buying Network. And we shorten that to the network a lot of times. We’ve been servicing the company’s been servicing the industry for over 20 years now. And in fact, one of the vendors that I used to work with had been a supplier. So I remember meeting with the owner here at the network, Alan Meyer, to discuss our company’s programs. They had to be, you know, over 10, 15 years ago now.

William Hanke (05:48)
Okay.

David Soria (05:53)
The company is a nationwide membership group serving window covering professionals, designers, workrooms, independent retailers. Now here I work with our account team as well as our members and vendors. I’m involved in several areas contributing to our printed newsletter, organizing monthly webinars for members, along with other functions here. It’s pretty amazing though to see the growth we’ve had just

In the few years I’ve been here, we have members in all 50 states. We’re going to hit 1,500 members total before the end of the year, 2024. And right before the pandemic, we were happy to hit 1,000. So that’s some pretty significant growth.

William Hanke (06:33)
Nice.

That’s fantastic. I love the list of things that you’re involved in. It doesn’t sound like you’ve got a dull moment. That’s awesome. That’s great. So Tell me a little bit more about a buying network. What is that and how does it benefit somebody who may be listening to the podcast today?

David Soria (06:50)
No, never a dumb moment. I love it.

Sure. Well, to start off with buying groups have been around a long time and in a lot of different industries. The idea is pretty straightforward, pretty simple. Members of a buying group receive better discounts on their purchases because the group leverages the total buying power of the membership for the benefit of the members. Now in the window treatment industry, this means the vendors will offer network members discounts that members

would not ordinarily be able to receive on their own. For some vendors, you know, I think you can think of it as a franchise level buying power. Various vendors offer sample discounts as much as 50%, a dealer spiff, aggressive promotions, some exclusive to the members. One vendor has even created a natural shade book that only members have access to to sell a private label option.

And that’s obviously a real game changer for those members who were in competitive markets.

William Hanke (08:10)
There’s a lot of window treatment dealers out there now that are probably selling the products that you guys have partners with, and they don’t realize they could be getting some sort of a discount just by being in the buying network.

David Soria (08:22)
Right? Right?

William Hanke (08:24)
Yeah, that’s pretty cool. So and you said it’s around close to 1500 now. So you guys got some decent leverage on the on that side as well.

David Soria (08:34)
Yes.

William Hanke (08:36)
That’s great. I love to hear that. That’s really cool. Kind of a different approach to it. What is when we look at a WCBN or the network, what is kind of your core value proposition that you promote?

David Soria (08:52)
Sure. You know, our bottom line goal as a company is to help our members by making their businesses stronger, more profitable, and ultimately more successful.

William Hanke (09:06)
OK. And you guys do that through, obviously, the vendor relationships. But you also mentioned that you have some other things like a newsletter. Tell me a little bit more about that.

David Soria (09:15)
Yeah, sure. We publish a monthly newsletter that has a wide amount of industry information, articles, certainly from our vendors, but general interest articles to anybody who’s in the industry from industry experts, from Roger Mcgalliff, Deb Barrett, Jessica Harling, the one and only Will Hankey.

contributes so it’s great and it’s a hard publication. mean we mail this out, it’s not an e-newsletter and we hear stories from our dealers who say, you know, can you tell me what the fabric is on the cover because I have a customer who saw it in my shop and is looking for that. So that happens all the time.

William Hanke (09:45)
you

wow. That’s cool. I love that in the digital world, you guys are kind of going the old school route a little bit. And and the newsletter is not just like a sheet of paper. Like it’s it’s a legit magazine, I guess. That’s great. And every month different every month, obviously, the the the people that submit articles. But you guys also have things in there specific to vendors teaching that kind of stuff as well. Right.

David Soria (10:22)
28 page, Yep.

Yep. We view it as an educational piece that anybody who picks this up, you know, it’s like, it’s like going to a training, right? If you can walk out of a training meeting with a vendor or speaker and walk away with one or two, two or three actionable items, it’s been worth your time.

William Hanke (11:00)
Yeah, that’s great. OK. What about who joins the network? So what is the typical vendor or retailer look like?

David Soria (11:10)
Well, I don’t know that there is one I mean we have a wide variety of businesses who joined from Really the small mom-and-pop companies up to large million dollar plus retailers We have folks who are strictly a shop at home working out of their house or office as well as really well established bricks and mortar folks there are

interior design firms, window covering specialists, work rooms, installers even who sell decorators, designers. There are even some floor covering or furniture retailers that also have a window treatment department. If they’re independent companies and sell window covering, they should consider becoming a member. I do want to stress independence if I could just for a moment. mean,

William Hanke (11:49)
Okay.

David Soria (12:00)
Folks that don’t already belong to a window covering franchise group that has their own buying program like a, well, you know the names, Budget Blinds, Gotcha Covered and others. The franchises sometimes get handed specific vendors and programs by that parent company and obviously pay a significant amount of money to sell those approved vendors. They often are paying a monthly fee for various services.

accounting, marketing, stuff like that, besides the initial buy-in to the franchise and any regular royalty payments. I know some do, some don’t, but the cost to belong to one of those can add up really fast. Groups like that lock down their franchises for a certain number of years unless they end up selling a territory. We’ve even had members over the years who’ve joined after they

left one of those arrangements sold or whatever separation and opened as an independent. And, you know, our membership, the network membership for a dealer, it’s only $180 a year. And we have not increased that in several years. So get it now before the price goes up, right? Our members tell us that they saved, often saved their membership fee on the first order.

William Hanke (13:18)
That’s right.

David Soria (13:26)
You asked me about who should consider joining if you say look at business size or revenue too and there’s no real minimum or maximum revenue to begin to see a benefit. We see it all the time for many members that depending on the vendor it may be only one or two orders for the membership to pay for itself.

William Hanke (13:50)
Yeah, yeah, 180 bucks a year. It doesn’t sound like it’s a it’s a big roadblock to get started, right? And yeah, yeah. So can you tell me you don’t have to be specific, but with a couple of vendors, can you tell me what kinds of discounts somebody could expect to get?

David Soria (13:59)
No. It’s not a big ask.

Sure, you know and any discount has value I mentioned One vendor has a program where members can get as much as 50 % off samples But another one has you know 25 % off sampling in terms of product discounts Often those are you know 5 10 15 as much as 20 % when you

pile on some of the promos that they’re doing as well.

William Hanke (14:44)
Got it. Okay. That’s really cool. Are there any ranges like revenue ranges for people that join your program where it starts to really become beneficial to them?

David Soria (14:56)
Yeah, you know, the more the more dealer sells, the more they’re going to save. mean, I would put it that way. On the other hand, even that company that says, hey, you know, I only do a little bit with XYZ vendor, should I really join? And it only takes a few orders during a calendar year for some vendors to make that membership pay for itself.

So I would say that regardless of the vendor, the dealer’s purchase level, that they should look at it closely and see whether it would be beneficial to them. And that’s part of our account manager’s job here is to work with dealers, look at the membership closely, and see whether it would help them. For some, it will help them a lot. And if it doesn’t, you know.

William Hanke (15:50)
Makes sense. I also can see that somebody who maybe contacts you, maybe they’re only using one of the vendors that you offer, but might get exposed by just being part of your program to other vendors that they didn’t realize even existed. And maybe end up saving money on products they’re already offering.

David Soria (16:12)
Yeah, we do hear that as well is, hey, you know, I joined because of this company or that company, but then I discovered this other company that has a product that, you know, other people in my market are using that I’ve heard about. I’ve learned more. And I wanted to add them to the mix. I definitely, definitely hear that from our members.

William Hanke (16:38)
Sure, yeah. And my company, Window Treatment Marketing Pros, is a preferred marketing vendor for you guys. We do get people that outreach to us and say, I didn’t think about marketing my business, but I probably should be thinking about that. And our name came up, of course. So we do get those same kinds of conversations where they didn’t realize that there was something else that they needed to grow their business.

David Soria (16:44)
Yes.

William Hanke (17:08)
So that’s always a great benefit, maybe a hidden benefit on your end that they realize after signing up.

David Soria (17:17)
Yep, absolutely.

William Hanke (17:19)
Cool. Let’s talk about challenges. So what are some of the biggest challenges that your members face and how does, you know, like a buying group really help them address those challenges?

David Soria (17:33)
Well, know, bottom line for the members joining is saving money. So we want to be able to do that for them first and foremost. You know, and obviously if you can reduce your costs, you’re going to make more money, be more profitable in the long run. But in terms of the challenge that are going on right now, I think we all recognize the market is super competitive.

not just about being able to maintain your margins, but dealers have to generate enough leads to fuel sales. You brought up the marketing component and you know, there are all these marketing services through additional vendor partnerships that from enhancing SEO, driving leads, website design, CRM setup, email marketing campaigns. You know, there are a lot of ways that, that members

can derive benefits to address that kind of a challenge. I know I’m aging myself by saying that the retailer I used to work for generated leads by running an ad in the local shopper paper, right? They even tried out a TV guide ad and it didn’t work out too well. But nowadays it’s digital marketing, using your website to drive leads, repeat customers, grow business, generate reviews online, get noticed in the first place.

William Hanke (18:46)
Right.

David Soria (19:02)
And many window covering dealers just don’t have that expertise, nor do they have the time to do the work it takes to comprehensively market their businesses. So having marketing partners who understand the window covering industry really is, you know, a game changer for them.

William Hanke (19:23)
Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s been a great partnership for us, obviously. I wanted to also I want to also ask you about webinars. You mentioned obviously the newspaper newsletter, whatever you call it, that goes out, the physical one. You guys also do webinars to help your members learn different things about different aspects of their business. It’s not just.

David Soria (19:27)
We appreciate it. Yeah.

William Hanke (19:49)
vendors pitching products, right? It’s a learning type session.

David Soria (19:53)
Right. Yeah. You know, we do at least one webinar a month, sometimes additional ones. We bring on our vendor partners to really be the star of those and to share something new about what’s going on. So if they have a product launch, if they have product promotion, if they have updates, training on a product, and many times,

What we’ve encouraged is that the vendors, and we started doing these, by the way, during COVID where nobody was meeting in person. And so it was an opportunity we realized for vendors to bring their showroom alive by showing it and doing the next best thing to having that sales rep sit down across the table, which was to show product, show samples and demo that.

And obviously, you know, that sales rep or sales rep team can only meet with one person at a time. Whereas our vendor webinars are open to our entire membership. So you can have have the national sales manager from a particular company presenting product or the product expert in that company presenting product to people from coast to coast and

So that’s very powerful. And it’s also an opportunity for somebody, say, who doesn’t have an account with a particular vendor to get a firsthand look at that product without the push, the sales angle of, I showed you my product, now sign off. They can judge for themselves whether that product line fits their needs.

William Hanke (21:46)
I love that. think that’s really smart that people can get on and watch those and do it in their own time, right? Without a huge time commitment as well, which obviously is important for people that are trying to run a business. Yeah. So one last thing. I did have a note here that you guys also have a private Facebook group that I’m assuming all your members have access to and can ask questions not just to the vendors, but to each other, right?

David Soria (22:16)
Yeah, we do maintain a private Facebook group as well as a public page. But on the Facebook group itself, there are no vendors. you know, we do encourage if you have something that’s nagging you about a particular vendor, give us a call. We, you know, talk about a one-on-one, but we see members posting tricky windows that they’re looking for advice for.

William Hanke (22:27)
okay.

David Soria (22:44)
the same as some of the other Facebook groups, but what’s different is you don’t have that vendor jumping on and saying sell my product, I’m the solution. You have other business owners who’ve seen the same window can make suggestions, can share their expertise and advice. So it’s very helpful to the members, I think.

William Hanke (22:53)
Yeah.

That’s great. mean, for 180 bucks a year, mean, just that would be worth it, right? That you could save a ton of money just by asking, how can I complete this project? And who can point me in the right direction?

David Soria (23:20)
Yeah, and you know, one of the things too, well, that we see is that members, by taking advantage of the various things that we offer, we see them growing their businesses at a faster pace and by having additional promotions, better pricing, they’re getting better margins. You know, it’s recently, I was recently talking to one of the territory reps from one of

the vendors that we work with. And she was saying she’s talking up our membership. Well, why? She shared that the dealers in her neck of the woods, her territory, the ones who are network members, she was seeing grow at a greater incremental rate and the non-network dealers were just kind of flat. So she was encouraging them to, you know, get on board.

and join and we love to hear stories like that. We hope that we can provide members with a leg up with those tools. The website, the Facebook, the webinars, all of that.

William Hanke (24:35)
That’s great. I mean, it makes total sense that if they’re saving money on the same types of products that everybody’s selling, they’d have more cash flow, right?

Cool. So question about the industry overall. I always like to ask this kind of question. What kind of marketing trends are certain, not even just marketing, what kind of trends are you guys seeing that is, should be important and on the radar for window treatment businesses as we roll into 2025?

David Soria (25:06)
Sure, you know, we always talk about that and trying to look for, know, what the hot trends are and what trend in one market is going and maybe not in another. I think my advice would be for the dealers wherever they are to analyze their local market really carefully. You know, what’s happening in their market may not be what’s happening nationwide.

tell you roller shades or motorization, but there are always exceptions for the latest trend. You know, I recently spoke to one of our members and she’s not in a small market. And she said, we’re still selling a surprising number of vertical blinds. I’m not going to give you that as a national trend, but you just never know for a particular market what, the hot product is. You know, that said, I would encourage any dealer.

has not yet embraced motorization to really get on board. It’s only going to grow in popularity and that means talking about it on every sales call, showing a motorized hand sample. If you have a showroom, having motorized product in your showroom. We have a vendor that has extra discounting specifically targeted to SOMTI motorization so that our members are able to save

additional on those products. I’d encourage dealers also to look beyond the interior window and expand their horizons. You know, if they’re just selling blinds and shades, what would happen to their business if they added soft options? That seems to be a growing trend. Fabric shades, drapery, balance, even just a simple panel program. What would that do to your bottom line? You’re in the home.

What about wall covering, rugs or accessory items if you’re already in soft? What about adding that? How about exterior product? Certainly, you know, some of the companies, have an exterior shade, but what about zip screens? What about awnings, pergolas, structures, exterior shutters and the like? We’re looking at some additional things to bring to our members next year and we’re really excited to…

to be able to do that. These are trends that are in the industry towards that outside of the house product. If dealers haven’t seen it in their market yet. In terms of marketing, you brought that up earlier. Have they updated their website? Do they have a dated appearance or does it show everything that they offer? Does it tell a story? Does it entice a customer to get in touch?

personal touch, like the owner’s picture even. How do they stay in touch with their current customer base? Do they have an email newsletter or other ways to generate word-of-mouth referrals? And obviously we’re in a visual industry and I think the cutting-edge businesses are making sure that they’re capturing great photos from their jobs, posting them, using social media, geo-tagging them.

I’ve heard from designers and workrooms that are having great success with Instagram reaching their target customers, making connections long term. Get the word out, tell your story.

William Hanke (28:44)
I love it. You’ve summarized more than I could ask when it comes to some sort of advice on what to do. What a great list of things that obviously, these are actionable items that people can, that they can grab and start to do. A lot of them aren’t even that costly to do so.

David Soria (29:04)
Yeah. I mean, look at your client mix. Who are they? Where are they? How did you find them? What are they buying? And look at your vendors. I mean, that’s where we come in to a little bit. Look at the big or even small changes in the industry. This is year end. It’s the time to reconsider a lot of things in your business. How would you tweak it for 2025? Are you reconsidering your mix of product, your mix of vendors?

And, you know, was last year better or worse than 2023? And what might you do differently? Are you ready to grow, ready to hire, open or expand a showroom? Bottom line, what are you, what are you driven to do with and for your business in the new year?

William Hanke (29:57)
Yeah, fantastic advice. I love it. When it comes to putting all that together and coming up with a plan, joining the network should be something that they consider. Where would somebody go to learn more about it?

David Soria (30:13)
Sure. Our website awcbn.com is a public facing page. There’s a members log in there where our members have additional information, but that public page gives a lot of information, FAQ information about joining. can check it out there. There is an application that they can fill out right.

right online, it’s a secure server to handle the payment, DocuSign server, and the links there. If they have questions, they can call us here at the office. We’re here in the central time zone at 847-281-3152, and we’re here Monday through Friday most days, 8 to 430.

William Hanke (31:08)
you

David Soria (31:09)
You know, we’ll take a little time off for Thanksgiving and all, but yeah, give us a call and we’d be happy to answer any questions. And if you have questions about if joining made sense for your particular business, we can definitely work through that.

William Hanke (31:29)
Love it. And you’ve got a great sales staff, too, that can answer a lot of the questions that might come up.

Love it. That’s great. So David, thank you so much for being on today. I’ve learned a lot about the network. I think it’s a great no brainer for people in the window treatment industry. And as you mentioned, some other industries as well where there’s still some advantage there. I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being on today.

David Soria (32:01)
Thank you, Will. Enjoyed talking about it with you.

William Hanke (32:04)
Yeah, no problem at all. If you found today’s conversation helpful, be sure to check out our previous episodes and subscribe to our podcast so you don’t miss the next update. We’ll have more insightful discussions and expert guests coming your way to help you thrive in the window treatment and awning business. Stay inspired, and we’ll see you next time. Thanks again, David.

David Soria (32:28)
Thank you.

William Hanke (32:32)
Sweet.

Guest Profile: Jessica Harling

Jessica Harling is a 4th Generation Window Treatment Specialist, founder of Behind the Design, and leading expert in employee and process development for design trade organizations. Behind the Design nurtures top talent through recruiting, onsite and online training, and consults with leadership in streamlining processes that increase productivity and impact the company’s bottom line.

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To learn more about Jessica Harling visit:

Go Behind The Design

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Transcript

Will Hanke – WTMP (00:00)
All right. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today I have our first ever return guest and you know, when you’re, when you’re really good at what you do, you got to have them back on to pull out some more knowledge. So

I’m excited to have Jessica Harling on today. Jessica is a 4th generation window treatment specialist, founder of Behind the Design and leading expert in employee and process development for design trade organizations. Behind the Design nurtures top talent through recruiting, on -site and online training, and consults with leadership in streamlining processes that increase productivity and impact the company’s bottom line. Jessica, thank you for being on today.

Jessica Harling (00:54)
It is my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me again. I’m excited.

Will Hanke – WTMP (00:59)
Yeah, yeah, you’re pretty well known in the industry. So I’m sure a lot of people know who you are if they haven’t already heard the previous episode. But excited to have you on. For those that maybe don’t know, could you share a little bit of your background and your current role in the window treatment industry and how you help businesses succeed?

Jessica Harling (01:18)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I have a love of it that is very deep. I’m fourth generation in window treatments. So my great grandfather started business in 1936 in Chicago, and that’s where I learned the business. Got into it about 14 years ago and worked with my mom and my grandpa and opened then the consulting firm behind the design about eight years in.

and just haven’t looked back. It’s been a pleasure working with other window covering companies and interior design trades to help them with their recruiting, training, or their process development, which is my favorite part, is getting in there and uncovering what inefficiencies there are and making it more streamlined so that they can scale, they can get to those goals that they’re looking forward to.

Will Hanke – WTMP (02:14)
Yeah, I love that you grew up in the industry and you’re kind of like in it whether you wanted to be or not, right? I’m sure after school you came home or you came to the store and helped out and I also love that you found a niche inside of that. You didn’t just turn into another sales, into your salesperson like maybe your parents did that kind of stuff. I love that you kind of found your own path.

Jessica Harling (02:39)
Yeah, I really, I loved it. And the funny part is I didn’t know what my parents did for the longest time, my mom, my grandpa. I mean, they knew they were in design and I knew that every year when we had a garage sale, we’d be selling a lot of fabric and we had bolts and bolts of it in their garage. But before I got into the industry, I really didn’t know anything about it and wasn’t that kid that was going into the shop and stuff. So I learned everything from

Will Hanke – WTMP (02:48)
You

Okay.

Jessica Harling (03:08)
the incredible reps in this industry and of course the knowledge that my family brought to it. But that’s, you know, all been generated from working in the industry.

Will Hanke – WTMP (03:19)
Right, right. So tell me who your target market is for behind behind the design.

Jessica Harling (03:25)
Yeah, well we certainly love window covering companies still. So we work with a lot of them, but I’ve tried to expand it to the interior design trades. So we work with whole handful of interior designers, flooring, paint companies, anything that’s gonna beautify a home or even work with commercial companies. But usually our clients are starting to hit over that million dollar mark. They might be approaching two million.

and we help them get and scale to that $10 million mark or wherever their goal is towards that.

Will Hanke – WTMP (03:55)
Okay.

Okay, that’s a great niche. They have enough revenue to make changes, get things done. And also at a million, you’re probably to the point where you kind of have to get your SOPs in place. In a lot of places, they probably haven’t done that. And somehow they’re still selling a million dollars a year, which is insane.

Jessica Harling (04:10)
Yes.

Yep.

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s just so fun working with those business owners and teams. You we’re not just working with the owner. So everyone is on the same page with those processes because they’re the ones executing on it. So they need to get behind it.

Will Hanke – WTMP (04:31)
Yeah.

Right, right, very good. So how do you position yourself in the eyes of your customers?

Jessica Harling (04:41)
Yeah, I’m big on business development and one of the things that even, you my clients have commented on is that I have friends everywhere. And so part of working with Behind the Design is a holistic view of everything in their business. mean, literally we’ve helped with restructures where they thought they were going out of business and they had half a million in debt and we flipped it all around, got them profitable, put structures in place, hired a bunch of people,

them all. So whatever the problem is, we’re there to tackle it. And I know you’re big fan of Traction by Gina Wickman. It’s one of my favorite books. And so for anyone that loves that too, we are the integrators. That’s what we do. We take your ideas, your vision, and we come up with a plan and a pathway that makes sense for everyone in the company and how to execute it. And then we help you do that.

Will Hanke – WTMP (05:35)
Love it. Every visionary needs an integrator, right? That’s great. Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. As a business owner, we have way too many ideas, and we really need somebody to say yes or no or let’s table that, right? Or else we just have tons of ideas for the most part.

Jessica Harling (05:38)
Yes. It’s for you.

Mm

Thank

That’s right. That’s right. And sometimes to have no idea of like how to actually implement it, like might be so innovative that it hasn’t been done before. how do we create, how do we engineer something to make it happen? And that’s what we love to do. We like to take those ideas and then build the foundation around it.

Will Hanke – WTMP (06:16)
Yeah, yeah, awesome. So I went back and looked on my website. It looks like you were on episode 21 of ours, and we talked a lot about hiring. So today, we’re going to switch it up a little bit and talk more about sales and lead handling, that kind of stuff, so that when the phone rings, what do you do, right? So let’s talk about that. When a lead comes in, what really is the first step that a business should take to ensure

Jessica Harling (06:38)
you

Will Hanke – WTMP (06:44)
that it’s managed effectively and obviously moves towards a sale.

Jessica Harling (06:49)
Yeah, you know, this may sound really simple, but you have to engage in some exciting, passionate, bubbly way, whether they are walking into your showroom or they’re calling you. It is so amazing. I’ve walked into so many showrooms where the associate is just sitting there and they don’t even say hi when you walk in or they don’t even look up. And so my rule of thumb always in managing a showroom was

someone walks in the door, you stand up and you go greet them. And if they don’t need you, you can hover and go in another area, but you need to give that big warm welcome. Thank you so much for joining, know, coming in here. Not give them five minutes and then maybe you’ll approach them.

Will Hanke – WTMP (07:33)
Yeah, I like that. I listened to a phone call today from one of our clients and the phone was answered, I’ll role play here, ABC Blinds. And that’s all they said, right? They’re like, what do you want?

Jessica Harling (07:44)
Right? Yeah, you interrupted me. Yeah.

Will Hanke – WTMP (07:51)
Yeah. So I think having something in place, like you said, be excited about it. And I guess it probably gets a little bit monotonous if you’re the one on the ladder doing the installs and the phones are ringing. I can see it being a little bit of a frustration, but there’s probably ways to handle something like

Jessica Harling (08:11)
Yeah, I mean, you gotta assume that that’s your next big…

break your big deal, you know, they could spend $100 ,000 with you. You have no idea. And I had that exact example happen when I was working in the family business. We were within a kitchen and bath showroom, very large in the Chicago area. And they in the area have this reputation for not being warm and fuzzy. You know, you don’t as a consumer walk in and like get incredible service. It’s because they’re more to the trade, but they like literally will ignore you.

you when you walk in. And there was a woman that came and strolled into my section of the showroom and I stood right up. I was even training someone. I was like, all right, perfect example. Let’s stand up and greet her. And I go over and she’s like,

Will Hanke – WTMP (08:55)
Yeah, yeah.

Jessica Harling (08:59)
not a single person. I’ve been here for an hour’s greeted me.” And I was like, Whoa, well, so sorry. Let me help you now. And she goes off. She was like, that is not service. I have so much money. I could fly to Timbuktu and back in a day. And it would be, you know, like I’d buy the store. And she went off. And I was like, well,

Will Hanke – WTMP (09:03)
You

Jessica Harling (09:23)
I can help with the draperies, I can’t help you with the kitchen and bath, I’m sorry. She’s like, no, you are gonna help me with the kitchen and bath. You’re gonna follow me around and write down the things that I want and you’re gonna hand it over to whoever needs to do anything. So she was pissed. And so we were walking around and in the kitchen and bath showroom, the manager sees me and the owner was there too. They’re like, what is Jessica doing in our neck of the woods consulting client?

Will Hanke – WTMP (09:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yes.

Jessica Harling (09:51)
So I’m waving them over behind her back and everything and they come over. She gave him peace of her mind, but she then came back the next day a little bit more calm with her husband. And he, she was like, I just want to introduce you to the woman that helped me. And it ended up being the largest sale in the company’s history, what she bought. And I was taken out to dinner because of it. Like it was a big deal, all because I said hi and I smiled.

So you gotta have that excitement. You have to have that love for what you’re doing or it’s gonna come across that way. It’s going to come across that you don’t wanna be there.

Will Hanke – WTMP (10:31)
Great story, yeah. And like you said, it turned into a huge deal. yeah, answering your phone every single time or greeting people when they come in. my gosh, it’s so huge. Yeah. All right.

Jessica Harling (10:41)
So important and to have a method for it. You know, you need to be the person that’s in the know. You’re the voice and the face of the company. So their first impression is you picking up that phone.

Will Hanke – WTMP (10:53)
That’s Yep. Yep. I’ve even heard some sales training where you get yourself excited, you smile, you know, all these different things before you make a call or something like that. So I think those things work, right? I mean, they do for me at least.

Jessica Harling (11:05)
I’m good.

Yeah, we had at the family business, put little smiley face stickers on everyone’s phone handle. So every time they went to pick it up, they could smile and remember, you know, turn it on.

Will Hanke – WTMP (11:20)
Yeah, yeah, that’s great. Well, we talked about showrooms. Let’s talk about the other side, which most window treatment companies do, I think, and that’s the in -home consultation. So what are some key strategies for doing those successfully with potential clients?

Jessica Harling (11:31)
You know what?

Yeah, I think a big part of it does come back to a process. If getting the lead coming in is part of the emotional side, then taking them through the actual appointment process should then seal the deal. And when you’re thinking about it, that customer on the other side, putting yourself in their shoes, they are gonna want to be comfortable with someone. They’re gonna want confidence in their decision.

And if you give any sort of impression through that sales appointment that you are not comfortable with what you’re selling, or you’re not confident in yourself, or you’re not explaining all of the things that could go wrong or right with this product, like if you don’t do all those things, then you’re gonna have a hard time getting that customer to buy from you. That’s why it’s gonna feel like a chase versus if you had a process in place.

and you follow that every single time, your close rate would go up, your engagement with your customers and your repeat customers are gonna go up. And so even if you don’t follow a particular method, come up with your own process for it because that is going to consistently build better results.

Will Hanke – WTMP (12:54)
Yeah, yeah, very important to have that. And of course, after, know, whether it is somebody that came into the showroom, you went to their home, maybe you didn’t close the deal there. What are some good, like best practices for following up with those leads?

Jessica Harling (13:11)
Well, follow -up is huge. It takes, and I’m sure you know these statistics, the overall concept of someone buying, it’s gonna take seven to 12 touch points to get to that purchase. And so if you, as one touch point, called and set up the appointment, that’s one. If you call and confirm the day before, that’s another touch point. So you’re on your third touch point before you get to your appointment.

And if they’re not buying that day, you’ve got at least five more to go to get into that seven to 12 range where so many people, they literally drop the ball on the followup. One of my favorite things is to shop the competition, to stay relevant, to understand what tactics are happening and such. And one of my early ones that I did shopping for, three companies came out within three days of each other. This was about 10 years ago.

not a single company ever followed up with me. Not one email, not one person put me on an email campaign that was like, here, we have this discount going on. Nothing. Three companies in the same area did nothing to follow up with me. And I told them all I was shopping around and getting other competitor quotes. I didn’t tell them no, I didn’t close the book. So,

That is the power of follow -up. You’re just gonna increase your close rate tenfold if you continue afterwards. Because your best shot on an in -home appointment is a 50 -50 chance. Yes or no? They’re moving forward. But if after the appointment you continue to follow up when your competitors aren’t, you’re increasing that chance to 65 -75.

Will Hanke – WTMP (14:58)
Yeah. And those follow ups don’t have to be like you physically doing something, right? Like in our lead boomerang system, we’ve got an automation for a lot of our clients where they follow up. Maybe it’s a, they send a video on, you know, on Shades or something, and then they send a case study. They drop a voicemail on the client’s phone. There’s other ways to do it besides you just have to pick up and call them back, right?

Jessica Harling (15:23)
That’s right, that’s right. And my favorite is automation because you can use your phone calls for that personal touch and you can also, which people don’t realize, you can make your automation sound personalized. It doesn’t have to sound like a robot wrote it, you know. So if you just take the time to think about what you would want to expect, again, going in the customer’s shoes, then yeah, automation is going to be your friend because you can set it and forget it, you know, and still get that.

Will Hanke – WTMP (15:37)
Sure. Yeah.

Jessica Harling (15:53)
result of people contacting you.

Will Hanke – WTMP (15:56)
Yeah, very, very much agree. So let’s talk about sales, right? Some things you can do with your sales team if you have a sales team or if it’s yourself doing the sales. What are some different training techniques, things like that that you can do or provide to ensure some great customer service?

Jessica Harling (16:20)
Yeah, I think in sales it’s hard to get away from role playing and I know it’s the biggest eye roll for everyone. It was something that I hated particularly, like I didn’t want to do it. But the thing about role playing is it’s just practice. And so if you have in your, you know, sales meetings some ability to do a role play, it will help.

I know that you just had LuAnn Nigara on talking about objections. And so one of my favorite role plays to do about objections is you guys know the objections. You know they’re gonna say the price is too high. You know it. You know they’re gonna say the spouse needs to talk to whoever. You know that they’re not ready. So come up with a script. Come up with a phrase that you’re gonna use every time those objections come up. But the problem is so many people go,

what a surprise. They don’t like the cost of it. Shocker. Okay, well how are you gonna overcome that? You have time to practice. You have time to think about it. So just put together a script, try that role play, and then when it happens on the appointment, you’re gonna be so calm, cool, collected that they’re gonna feel that from you and go, man, these people got it. They had it answered for every question.

Will Hanke – WTMP (17:16)
you

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I I’m in a program that helps with things like sales. And one of the things they do is the role play. And I’m the same way I used to be like, God, you I’m not ready, you know, but the the guy that was running it was successful, multimillion dollar business. Right. And he would say, OK, let’s just role play this ring ring. And you’re like, hello. You know, but it is ultimately even if no matter how bad

Jessica Harling (18:04)
Alright.

Will Hanke – WTMP (18:09)
you do going through the role play, you’re still going to learn something from it because most likely they’re going to give you feedback on what you did say.

Jessica Harling (18:15)
Yeah, and so many times people just practice in the appointment itself. And so that’s why you’re fumbling over your words. That’s why you feel like you said the wrong thing, because it’s the first time it’s coming out of your mouth ever. So don’t let it be the first time. Even if you’re practicing in front of the mirror by yourself and no one has to see you, but you’ve got to practice it out loud. Maybe it’s near car drive to the next appointment. You have to talk it out loud.

Will Hanke – WTMP (18:43)
Yeah, yeah, I even had a I had purchased at one point some flashcards of sales objections, right? Okay, customer says price is too high and you flip it over and you know, there’s the answer or what you should probably respond. I can see that being very helpful. You know, like you said, list down the objections, you know, you’re already going to get and then have some sort of at least maybe not pre -programmed answer, but have something in mind of what to say, right?

Jessica Harling (18:49)
Mm. Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

Will Hanke – WTMP (19:14)
Be a little bit prepared at least, right?

Jessica Harling (19:16)
You’re doing it every day. Again, it’s not a surprise.

Will Hanke – WTMP (19:21)
Yeah, yeah. So another thing that we did recently was we had Sandra VanSickel on and we talked a lot about work rooms. She was fantastic. So tell me about best practices around creating and maintaining relationships with work rooms.

Jessica Harling (19:32)
huh.

Yeah, well, any sort of vendor relationship, you need to treat that as sacred as your customer relationship, especially a workroom that is getting you the goods that you’re selling. And so to help maintain and develop some of those relationships, I would first start by getting involved in the design industry to like find those workrooms that you can work with. Maybe you’ve always used the same one, but…

you can search out others for backup when the one is too busy. So to maintain those relationships, a big part of it is giving and taking and communication. If you send them work, well then make sure your work orders are pristine for them. And they are responsive to any questions that you have or they have for you about your work. That’s gonna help build those relationships.

Again, it goes back to process. We want to make sure to a streamlined process in between that communication, like maybe you meet biweekly and you go through what open projects you have, or maybe on a quarterly basis, you review any errors that came through for the workroom. So all of those things can help enhance the relationship if you have a solid process and keep those communication lines open.

Will Hanke – WTMP (21:04)
Right. And working backwards to the sales side of things, letting your sales team know, you know, the at least the top level things about the workroom, what their turnaround time is, that kind of stuff, maybe giving them a tour or something like that so that they can talk about it in a very positive way.

Jessica Harling (21:23)
Yeah, that’s a great point because I remember when I had a sales team go to the workroom and they could actually see the work being done. Their level of respect and their level of excitement came out when they were talking about it with people. They lit up because they’re like, wow, the work that we were able to see. And they do it by their hands. You know, that’s what’s unbelievable. They’re literally crafting this stuff by hand versus a big manufacturer doing it at a factory. So.

You know, when you think about that, really helps enhance the value of what you’re selling to your customers.

Will Hanke – WTMP (21:57)
Yeah, yeah, very much so. It always really helps open their eyes, I think, to to what’s going on behind the scenes. Right.

Jessica Harling (22:04)
Yeah, absolutely. And even to develop a relationship with the upholsterers, with the seamstresses, to have them understand who they’re working for or towards with their client projects. I know working with workrooms that they just love to see the end picture. Sometimes they don’t get to see it. Once it’s out of their hands and the designer takes it and installs it, it doesn’t get back to them the beauty of their work. So just simply by…

sharing photos after installation will help enhance that relationship.

Will Hanke – WTMP (22:37)
wow. Great tip. I love that. That’s a great idea. So let’s talk about that leveraging technology. Right. So we’ve got people in workrooms that are doing physical work, but there is a way to kind of, you know, move your business in a way of technology, such as sharing on Instagram or sharing with the workroom. So what role does technology play in in our world that that you see on a normal basis?

Jessica Harling (23:05)
Yeah, well, the workrooms that we work with on the consulting side, a lot of the work is based around CRMs that we can implement and help them manage their workflow. And for example, one of the big ones that we’ll utilize can have the work order all pulled up. You can quote in the same module, you know, and…

have some of those efficiencies to get the pricing right because that’s a big pain point for the workrooms is take so much time to quote, take so much time to get those over for an interior designer that may not even be doing the project. So by utilizing those sorts of platforms, you can save yourself time. You can also save yourself from redoing that estimate a bunch of times. Like if you’re doing it manually.

and it’s not spitting it out from a computer system, then it’s that continuous time to redo your work. And gosh, who wants to do your work all over again? So it’s a lot of time saving for sure, which then goes into cost, because you can then spend time selling or connecting or project managing whatever your role is.

Will Hanke – WTMP (24:08)
Yeah.

Right. Right. And I know you mentioned automations. Our lead boomerang system, you know, it’s based on a lot of automations of things such as touch points. Right. You mentioned touch points as soon as somebody signs up, maybe send them a 24 hour notice that you’re you’re going to be there tomorrow so that they’re home. You know, those kinds of things are really nice and simple to set up to.

Jessica Harling (24:41)
Yeah, and I love those because again, like people are all about the now, the immediacy of everything. And with custom, that’s hard, right? There’s four 12 week turnaround times on some products. And so to have them wait after they were all excited and they purchased is such a bummer. But if you can utilize all of those automations and those checkpoints in between with the customer,

You keep them engaged as you go and it doesn’t get this huge roller coaster of emotions because you just went radio silent on them.

Will Hanke – WTMP (25:18)
Yeah, I guess in a perfect world, a workroom that also engaged in some technology would be cool. Like, you know, they take pictures of your stuff halfway through, or here’s Jane working on your draperies, that kind of stuff. That’d be pretty neat, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just getting somebody to actually do it, right?

Jessica Harling (25:32)
Love that. Yeah, those are great ideas.

Will Hanke – WTMP (25:39)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. So OK, after the appointment, maybe even after the install, we need to get some customer feedback, right? What are some different strategies for collecting that feedback and getting it out to the world?

Jessica Harling (25:59)
Well, I think a big part of it is you have to ask multiple times, multiple different ways. You are not just gonna get a bulk of your responses in one way. So yes, you are gonna have your installer give something to them at the end of your process that asks them for a review. Then you could have someone in the office contact them, making sure that they’re satisfied.

Asking for a review you can send an email follow -up asking for a review So it is gonna take a campaign and is gonna take multiple attempts Just like you’re gonna have to do follow -ups to close your deal. It’s no different. And so it’s just people You know, they just don’t do it right away and you don’t want to overwhelm them either for example You know if you are giving them a final closeout email and you’re like

Will Hanke – WTMP (26:43)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica Harling (26:53)
Here’s the final invoice. Here’s a review request. Also call us if you need anything. Like if you’re overwhelming them with too many calls to action in one email, they’re not gonna do all of them. They’re gonna do one of them at best. So you gotta be strategic with your review asking placement so you’re not getting muddled against everything else that is going around.

Will Hanke – WTMP (27:16)
Yeah, yeah, very important. We have bought a new refrigerator about a month ago from Lowe’s and the guys came in here and they put it all together and plugged it in and driving away. They couldn’t have been gone five, 10 minutes. And I got a call from somebody at Lowe’s. Hey, how did the install go? Everything, you know, any problems, anything like that? I was like, my gosh, this is crazy. Cool. You know, it was it was really impressive that that they had that kind of a system in place.

Jessica Harling (27:43)
Yeah, that is amazing when you can check in after. And I’m a big proponent of that in our processes, whether it’s someone in the office or your designer or whoever, someone has to follow up with the customer after the installer was there. Because so many times, the installer is the last impression. And the installers, a lot of times, they’re very skillfully crafted. They know what they’re doing. But they’re sometimes like doctors. They don’t have the best bedside manner.

And so if you want that as your last impression of what that brand and reputation is gonna be, maybe you can control it a little bit more if yourself as the manager, one of your sales team or someone in the office then follows up. I am always a big believer in that because then you can warm it up, know, put a fighting button to the experience.

Will Hanke – WTMP (28:33)
Right. Great point. Yeah, there’s a those guys are very smart when it comes to installing, but maybe they’re not great salespeople, right? And they then they don’t need to be. But yeah, but having that piece in place really does just overall makes a better customer experience. Yeah. So let’s talk real quick about business growth. So for our for our listeners out there,

Jessica Harling (28:44)
Yeah, exactly.

Will Hanke – WTMP (29:01)
What are some key strategies for planning and managing growth in the business and how can companies prepare for scaling? I know that’s an easy question, right?

Jessica Harling (29:11)
I think the first thing is an awareness thing before some key strategies and the awareness part of it is as you grow, your business changes and your people changes, it goes through different cycles. And oftentimes when we get approached on the consulting side and we get into the business, there’s so much regret as to like an apologies, as to like,

where they’re at in business and why they have to have a consultant to help them to the next level. And I always like to remind everyone, what got you here is your processes. You are at a place where you’re at above a million dollars. That is so difficult for businesses to do. And especially if you’re above that, two, three million, and then regretting everything that came before, no, no. We gotta rework that that mindset because…

Will Hanke – WTMP (30:04)
Right.

Jessica Harling (30:08)
Businesses do go in cycles. So you’re gonna get this pit like I call it in the million dollar to two million dollar mark then between like four and six million and then about eight nine million in order to get to your big next levels and so just know that your Processes are gonna change at those different milestones and it’s on purpose so that you can get to the next level But what you did prior to that is not bad

It’s what led you here. So we can take some of that and then just massage it so it makes sense moving forward.

Will Hanke – WTMP (30:44)
Yeah, yeah, good problem to have, I guess, right? If you’re growing and you’re not sure what to do. But it’s not unusual for everything to break when you hit certain points.

Jessica Harling (30:53)
Exactly. And so when that breakdown occurs, I would say to the next point is with strategy, start to identify it. You if you’re trying to figure out a process, just observe it. You know, before I created what I call the life, the client process, what I did is I observed over a 90 day period and I watched what the file did before, you know, our technology. And so literally I would star a file.

Will Hanke – WTMP (31:19)
Yeah

Jessica Harling (31:22)
and I would watch it from every stage and who hit it and how long they had it for and why they had it for that long and I just kept watching it and we tracked it and when we got the data then we could see where the pitfalls were, know, between our steps. Why is this taking two weeks? It should take three days. How are we gonna solve that? So you can’t change a process without first looking at what you currently have.

Will Hanke – WTMP (31:34)
Yeah.

Jessica Harling (31:49)
because you might be changing something that’s working and so you have to really do a good deep dive first to figure out what is the problem and a lot of times, actually 9 times out of 10, 9 and a half times out of 10, what you think is the problem is actually the symptom. So if you don’t do enough analysis, if you don’t dive deep, then all you’re gonna be doing is fixing the face value problem and not getting to the root of it.

Will Hanke – WTMP (32:15)
Yeah, yeah. I also, I really like that you mentioned, you know, something that should take a couple hours, you know, takes a couple of weeks. I think that’s part of those businesses that are, you know, over a million where they’re starting to figure out how can we start to increase efficiency, right? And start to figure out, okay, this should take this long. Let’s watch a flag if there’s, you know, more than 10 % variant and something like that. Those things are really important to continue to grow as well.

Jessica Harling (32:44)
Yeah, and you touch on a good point because I was talking to a client about this today. He is in a larger business that has four to six turnaround times, but his dad who just he bought out his dad is used to like two, three week turnaround times because he was the only person doing it. So the day it came in was the day it went out or the day he sold it was the day he ordered it. And that doesn’t happen in bigger.

industries or bigger companies and so that’s where process then becomes critical so we can shave it down to the two weeks or the three weeks and still have all the checkpoints but there is a difference there you’re right.

Will Hanke – WTMP (33:25)
Yeah, yeah. And then you start talking about things like cash flow, right? And how long do you want that money tied up? All kinds of stuff we could get into. But I appreciate the comments around the business growth. I think a lot of our listeners are in that scale mode, right? And looking for tips and ideas and ways to get to the next level.

Jessica Harling (33:45)
Yeah, it is so much like a puzzle. You just have to have the patience to dig into it.

Will Hanke – WTMP (33:51)
Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, Jessica, as always, I do appreciate your time. I appreciate your expertise. You’ve helped us a lot in sales and we touched a little bit on processes and stuff, which are always going to be a huge part of any business, no matter the size, right? I think they just change as time goes on. But thank you for your insights today. I do appreciate it.

Jessica Harling (34:16)
Thank you Will, it’s been pleasure.

Will Hanke – WTMP (34:18)
Yeah, no problem. So if you are listening and you like this episode or you like any of the other episodes If you haven’t checked out jessica’s previous one go back and listen to that for the hiring side of things She’s got some great tips in there as well. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast. We’d love to have you alerted when new episodes come out, which is every two weeks and once again Jessica Thank you so much for your time. I hope you have a great day Thank you

Jessica Harling (34:44)
Thanks, Will.

Guest Profile: Michelle Williams

Michele Williams is the dynamic owner of Scarlet Thread Consulting and Metrique Solutions, specializing in empowering creative professionals in the design industry. She offers strategic business coaching and financial analytics, helping interior designers, workrooms, and window covering professionals navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship. Through Scarlet Thread Consulting, Michele provides tailored coaching to achieve financial clarity and operational efficiency. Metrique Solutions offers technology-driven software to optimize pricing strategies and enhance profitability. Michele’s work transforms businesses and inspires growth in the design community.

Key Takeaways

In this insightful podcast episode, Michelle Williams, owner of Scarlet Thread Consulting and Metric Solutions, shares her expertise on financial management for window treatment and awning businesses. Key takeaways include:

• The importance of understanding how money flows through your business.
• Implementing a profit-first approach to ensure sustainability.
• Strategies for effective budgeting and marketing spend.
• Tools and resources for better financial management.
• Preparing for and handling financial setbacks.

Understanding the Basics of Financial ManagementThe Fundamental Principles

Michelle emphasizes the critical importance of understanding how money moves through your business. This includes:

1. Identifying primary revenue streams.
2. Understanding cash flow patterns.
3. Knowing your cost of goods and operating expenses.

She stresses that many businesses fail due to poor cash flow management, highlighting the need for a solid grasp of these fundamentals.

Implementing a Profit-First Approach

Michelle advocates for a “bottom-up” financial approach:

1. Determine desired profit after taxes.
2. Account for taxes and savings.
3. Calculate necessary operating expenses.
4. Work upwards to determine required sales.

This method ensures that profit isn’t an afterthought but a planned component of your business model.

Effective Budgeting and Marketing StrategiesCreating a Marketing Budget

Michelle suggests:

• Conservative businesses: 6-8% of gross profit for maintenance.
• Growth-focused businesses: 8-20% of gross profit.
• She cautions against exceeding 20% to maintain overall financial health.

Measuring Marketing ROI

To effectively measure marketing ROI:

1. Set clear expectations for each marketing activity.
2. Track relevant metrics (e.g., website clicks, lead generation).
3. Understand the cost per lead and return on investment.

Michelle emphasizes the importance of giving marketing efforts enough time to show results before making decisions.

Tools and Resources for Financial Management

Michelle recommends:

1. Accounting software (e.g., QuickBooks, FreshBooks)
2. Customer Relationship Management (CRM) systems
3. Financial dashboard tools like Metric Solutions

These tools help track financial data, manage customer information, and provide insights for decision-making.

Preparing for Financial Setbacks

To minimize and handle financial setbacks:

1. Create separate bank accounts for different business purposes.
2. Save for unexpected expenses and taxes.
3. Plan ahead for hiring and expansion costs.
4. Develop contingency plans for various scenarios.

Effective financial management is crucial for the success and sustainability of window treatment and awning businesses. By implementing these strategies and using the right tools, you can make informed decisions, optimize your marketing spend, and build a more resilient business.

Other Notes/Links:

To learn more about Michelle Williams visit:

Scarlet Thread Consulting

pssst…. want to be a guest on the show?

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Transcript

Will Hanke – WTMP (00:00)
All right, hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers and business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today, we have a service provider who I’ve known for many years. We’ve always bumped into each other at IWCE, and I’m very happy to finally have Michelle Williams on the podcast today.

Michelle Williams is the dynamic owner of Scarlet Thread Consulting and Metric Solutions, specializing in empowering creative professionals in the design industry. She offers strategic business coaching and financial analytics, helping interior designers, workrooms, and window covering professionals navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship. Through Scarlet Thread Consulting,

Michelle provides tailored coaching to achieve financial clarity and operational efficiency. Metric Solutions offers technology -driven software to optimize pricing strategies and enhance profitability. Those sounds like things that people would be interested in. Michelle’s work transforms businesses and inspires growth in the design community. Michelle, thank you so much for being on today.

Michelle Williams (01:17)
It’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Will.

Will Hanke – WTMP (01:20)
Yeah, very excited to kind of jump in and learn some stuff, especially on the finance side. I think that’s always a struggle for small business owners along the different stages of growth. All right. Well, so let’s jump right in. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about your background and how you became an expert in financial management for businesses?

Michelle Williams (01:31)
Sure.

Yeah, so my background, I started in software development for Dun & Bradstreet software and built financial software. So all the way back in the day, back in the 80s when the dot com was booming and everything was moving in that direction.

Yeah, so I was building accounts, payable general ledger, purchasing inventory. I think even before I really knew what they meant in the real world, I mean, I had an idea of what they meant for sure, but I had not owned my own companies at that point. And so I knew the accounting behind them and why it worked together and how they worked together in the touch points. And then after about 10 years of that, I came home to raise my children. had a little boy that was one and a little boy that was three and a half.

And believe it or not within about, I’m going to say about a year of being home. In that year, I did all the window treatments in my own home, made them all. We had just bought a new home and my neighbors started ringing the doorbell and asking me to make window coverings for them. So I jumped right in with my good old plastic Costco table and my home sewing machine. And I started making window treatments, custom window treatments until I started figuring out, know.

Will Hanke – WTMP (02:54)
you

Michelle Williams (03:01)
the better ways to do it and the right ways to do it. And then of course I’m in the homes and they’re asking me to sell them blind shade shutters and I’m gonna say yes. If I’m already at the window, I’m gonna treat the window. And so long story short, I found myself in a position of not making the money that I wanted or needed to make because I was so excited about the doing that I wasn’t paying attention to the marketing, to the pricing, to the…

you know, the nuance of running the business. was, if you’ve ever read the book, E. Mithre Visited, I’m sure you have, I was very much the technician who built the business and was staying the technician. And I had not looked at the management, the entrepreneurial, you know, the visionary. I had not even looked at those things. I just found myself in the doing of the business. And in that doing, I wasn’t making the money that I needed to make. And so long story short, my husband said to me on a tear -filled call,

that said we owe money so that I can work for rich people. He said, you know what you’re doing. Like you know the pieces is you’re just not looking at your business the way that you looked at the million dollar budgets that you rent. I mean, I build a project accounting system. I was the development manager. I’m building a two and a half year project accounting system. So it wasn’t that I didn’t understand it. I wasn’t applying it. And it’s interesting, Will, I hear that a lot from people that actually have business degrees or finance degrees or even marketing degrees.

Will Hanke – WTMP (04:00)
You

Thank

Michelle Williams (04:26)
There’s one thing about learning it in school and even doing it for a large corporation, it’s a different mindset to come back and do it on at that point what was really a micro business for me. And so that kind of led me down the path of looking at where am I acting like a hobbyist? Where am I acting like a business owner? Where do I need to shift some of the things that I’m doing? Where do I need to gather control?

If I’m going to do this, I was making six figures. I’m going to make the money or I’m going to go back to work. Like this doesn’t make any sense to me. And so to make a long story even shorter, I learned how to do it. I started putting in best practices, taking everything that I learned on a macro, moving it to a micro. And then I started teaching it and sharing it with other people because once you have that aha, you can’t hold it back. can’t, I was watching other professionals who were

super smart and super gifted and they weren’t making the money and I was like, well, let me tell you what to look, let me tell you what to track, let me tell you how to do it. Have you considered this? Have you considered that? And then over time, they started putting those things into practice and implementing those. And then I started teaching classes about it and traveling the United States to teach it.

Will Hanke – WTMP (05:43)
That’s awesome. I think that story resonates with a lot of our listeners, you know, that you did it yourself and suddenly you found yourself doing it for others. And maybe there’s a business here, right?

Michelle Williams (05:54)
Right. And you know, we want to serve our clients well. I mean, we’re all in business, hopefully, to serve our clients well. And in that serving, sometimes what I found was we weren’t serving our own business as well. And I use the term often fair and reasonable. And so to be fair and reasonable to the client means I also have to be fair and reasonable to my business so that we’ll be there the next time they come back to do the next room or the next home or the next project. And that’s what many of us are doing.

Will Hanke – WTMP (06:23)
Yeah, yeah, that’s definitely a good part of running a business. What do they say, working in the business versus working on the business? Right, you know, that’s obviously very important. And a lot of people jump into working in the business. They’re on the ladder, you know, the phone’s ringing maybe, and they’re not able to answer the phone or, you know, those kind of things. So getting those systems in place is huge.

Michelle Williams (06:47)
Yeah, and you know, that’s exactly what I did. I was working in the business, but if we don’t work on it, then the business can’t work for us. And so just to bring you up to where I am today and what I do, I ran a window treatment company for 16 years. I was one of the managers and owners for a short period of the Custom Home Furnishings Academy in Charlotte, North Carolina, where we taught installation for window coverings. We taught sales.

Will Hanke – WTMP (07:14)
Okay.

Michelle Williams (07:15)
We taught all of that. put out a magazine and then did all those things. Education. Then we sold that company and I started my coaching and consulting company. Started my podcast, Profit is a Choice in 2018 and then started Matric Solutions in 2021, which is a compilation of all of the spreadsheets and all of the things that I had been teaching in financials.

all the way back since like 2007. So it’s one dashboard that we can use to keep up with all the things we need to run a company.

Will Hanke – WTMP (07:48)
Love it. Yeah. So who is your target audience for your business?

Michelle Williams (07:53)
Yeah, so I’ve used the term quite often interior design and I do that just because I see it as an umbrella for all of these home services that were really coming in to design areas and aspects of their home to make it better, whether it’s at the window in the full room or some, you know, small piece or part of that. So I would say that for Scarlet Thread Consulting, my ideal client would be any business within that industry. For Matric Solutions, it’s a bit broader.

It is not industry specific, it is small business specific. So I am looking at supporting businesses that are like 10 million and under in that particular sector. So it’s any small business that offers a product or service that’s in that 10 million and under range.

Will Hanke – WTMP (08:39)
Got it. And for that, they would be people that are struggling with finances, don’t understand exactly what they’re trying to accomplish and you help them get there.

Michelle Williams (08:50)
Yeah, so I would say not even just struggling, but even maybe wanting to combine a lot of financial applications. So for example, we’re not QuickBooks and we’re not taking the place of that financial management, but many business owners, when you start getting up into the hundreds of thousands and you start hiring people and you’re trying to figure out, for example, what are the KPIs that I’m managing to? Where do I give bonuses? What are the commission structures look like?

What does it cost for me to have a person or have them on site? We have all these disparate kind of spreadsheets everywhere. Matrice Solutions pulls that all together. And so in one dashboard, you’re able to look at it and see, you know, here’s the money that I have coming in, here are the KPIs that I have, here’s what I’m trying to plan for, here’s the budget I’m aiming against, here’s the plan and here’s the projections and just everything that you need.

that goes past what you would get. It’s the work that we should all be doing with the financial data, but we never have time to do it so we don’t look at it. So then we aren’t using our data, if you will, for decision making. We’re trying to make a decision from a gut feeling after taking a quick glance at a P &L, a balance sheet, or a bank account. And what we’re trying to do is say, it doesn’t just have to be a gut reaction. We can use empirical data along with a gut reaction so that you can make these decisions with more ease.

Will Hanke – WTMP (10:16)
Yeah, if they even look at the P &L or that, like you said, gut, a lot of people will just make their decisions straight from that.

Michelle Williams (10:23)
Right, but a lot of people don’t look at it, well, because they don’t even understand it. And so what we’ve done is put it into a visual format so that you can look at a pie chart and have an understanding. You can look at this is up or this is down, this is compared to this number, this is why you care. We boil a lot of it down to five anchor points, which is your total revenue.

your cost of goods, your gross profit, your expenses and your net income. Because if I can look at those five numbers and if they are following in the realm that I need them to follow, I might not even need to dig deeper. But a lot of times we’re so overwhelmed with all these black and white numbers on a page that we don’t even know what we’re looking at. And we’re trying to say, wait a minute, tell us these few things. This is what you need to look at. Here are the three numbers or the five numbers or the comparison so that you can not have to worry about

There’s even been some data that is now coming out that they’re telling some financial people, don’t send people all the P &Ls and balance sheets. They don’t know how to read them. They don’t know what they’re doing with them. So to send it just is almost like a checkbox. I wanted to make it so that we have data that is usable, but not too much. And that’s what we were seeing. And it had to be beautiful and it had to be accessible or people don’t use it because they have the data. We just don’t use the data.

Will Hanke – WTMP (11:40)
Yeah, it reminds me of I always say a joke when I’m speaking about Google Analytics a lot of business owners will log in see the pretty graphs and they’ll be like, okay It looks like something’s happening and then they’ll log out and have no idea, you know where where they are, know from that standpoint

Michelle Williams (11:59)
Right, but I bet if you took somebody and said, let me show you the three things to look at in your Google Analytics every month, look here. If these three things are in, you know, within this range or meet this number or whatever it is that you’re measuring, you’re good. Keep going. If one of threes are out. Yeah, I always left. That’s why in our cars we have the dashboard.

Will Hanke – WTMP (12:12)
Yeah. Right.

Michelle Williams (12:18)
Because I can promise you we’re not running out and checking that oil from that dipstick all the time. We’re waiting on that to tell me it’s time to check the oil. That’s why they put the little sticker in our cars, change your oil, because we’re not going to do it and remember it. We’ve got to have the flashing lights and the reminders that what we’re looking at or what we’re doing is working with us or against us. And so that’s what Matrique is. We kind of look at it as the motherboard of the financials of the company so that we know what we’re looking at.

Will Hanke – WTMP (12:46)
That’s awesome. Yeah, I love it. So how do you position yourself in the eyes of your customers?

Michelle Williams (12:51)
So we position ourselves truly is from the Madrid perspective of trying to stand in that gap between you’re running the business and you have a financial piece of software. The gap is we don’t know what to do with the data to manage the day -to -day operations. And we want to help you take this data to create a decision -making rubric, if you will, for the day -to -day. So whether it’s marketing, whether it’s HR and hiring or building out operations,

Everything we do takes money. Like that’s what’s making our businesses go round, right? And so whether it’s on an ad spend or whether it is money that we’re spending to host an event or whether it’s money that we’re spending to take a client to lunch, all of those things come back from a marketing perspective and hit the financial budgets. And so if we don’t know how to spend that money in a well thought out way, we can spend money.

I’m chasing things that don’t matter.

Will Hanke – WTMP (13:50)
Makes sense, yeah. So thank you for explaining that. So I want to, as you know, this is a marketing podcast, right? I like to always kind of have a marketing spin on things. But so I want to ask some questions and I know that you can handle everything related to the business. And of course, I’m going to ask for the marketing piece as well. So before we get started with that, let’s talk about just some financing, financial planning basics. Like what are the fundamental

financial principles that window treatment and awning business owners should understand to effectively grow their business.

Michelle Williams (14:27)
Well, I think first is always having a really solid understanding of how money moves through your business. Meaning, what is it that you’re selling? What are your primary revenue streams? What is the money that comes in over what time period? So that sets goals and budgets and that kind of thing. Knowing how that money goes out the door. Does it go out through cost of goods or cost of service and sale? Or does it go out through operating expenses?

knowing how much money it takes to run a company every month, knowing how much you’re going to spend on marketing or ads and what type of marketing. So it’s really about knowing how money comes in, how money flows out. That’s number one. I think a lot of companies, you know, I think it’s like 85 % of businesses fail because they don’t keep up with cash flow and cash management. They don’t understand the money in and out. And I see people on occasion, I won’t say it’s all the time, but they’re spending more than they make.

because they don’t truly understand the cost of running the business and then the cost of the sale. And that’s even separate, and I’m talking about the cost of the fulfilling of the sale. Forget that there’s a whole conversation about the cost of getting the lead and converting the lead. Like that’s a whole separate cost that can be wrapped up under operating expenses, right? Under the marketing and advertising section. But just knowing what we can expect out of the numbers, having money saved, knowing what…

what the turnover is in a company, whether it’s time, money, people, knowing what it costs to implement a new idea, knowing what it costs to break into a new market. I think sometimes I know I did it. I jumped in and was doing the business. I was so busy as technician that I wasn’t taking the time to understand that managerial and entrepreneurial role of what does it take to keep this going or to pay myself and to pay my people.

to compete in a market space. And so just really understanding, it sounds like a lot. I I wish I could boil it down to say, here’s two numbers you need to know, but it’s a bit deeper than that to really be able to be a lasting business.

Will Hanke – WTMP (16:36)
Yeah, think early on, even in my business, I was in the mindset of if I can spend more than I’m making to grow my business, like I’m reinvesting. And I know that’s a dumb way to think about it. But I think a lot of people think that way.

Michelle Williams (16:53)
It is, I think really coming into it with a plan, I’ll tell you what I found to be most helpful is the businesses that I talk to, we do what I call bottom up financials. And I’ve run it twice on my podcast. It’s backwards financials for the win is the title. And in that, what we start with is tell me how much money you want to make after taxes. Tell me how much we’re going to be paying in taxes. Give me your effective tax rate. Tell me how much you want to save and profit in the company. And then how much other do you need to run the company?

from a profit standpoint. Then we can work our way up to figure out what the sales need to be. In other words, having profit, I’m profit first certified, but having profit and paying ourselves shouldn’t be a if there’s any leftover. It has to be planned for. I mean, there is no big corporation that’s thinking, let’s let everybody come to work today and see if we have any leftover to pay them. We wouldn’t go work for a company like that.

Will Hanke – WTMP (17:46)
Right.

Michelle Williams (17:48)
So why we are allowing ourselves, I’m not talking that first year or so when you’re figuring it out, but why we go year after year after year, not making the money that we need to make, that’s a planning issue.

Will Hanke – WTMP (18:01)
Yeah, you’re right. should have followed that up with the fact that I read Profit First, the book, and it really changed my outlook on business, right? Because you’re basically doing it in reverse. So it’s awesome that you’re Profit First certified. I love to hear that.

Michelle Williams (18:17)
Yeah, because if we do it the other way, then we’re willing to spin, spin, spin, spin, take what’s left over. But if we say this is the profit that we need to make the business sustainable, right? Because profitability is sustainability. Here’s what I need to make it sustainable. Here’s what I need to pay myself to take care of my family so that I can keep coming to work to do this. This is what I need to plan for for retirement, because if I worked for another company, they would give that to me. Here’s what I need to do, you know, to bonus my people or to give

you know, extra benefits to my people, then you can start walking up, what does it cost to keep the business going with advertising, marketing, you know, all the things that we need to do. And then what is it that I need as gross profit? And then it will immediately tell you what the sales need to be. So then we can craft a business that works for us versus going out and just selling indiscriminately to anybody with breath and a checkbook and wondering why it doesn’t work out at the end of the day. Cause I’ve done that and it doesn’t work.

Will Hanke – WTMP (19:13)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, let’s talk about the budgeting piece specifically for marketing since you mentioned that. How can small businesses that are in our industry manage a budget, create a plan around marketing their business?

Michelle Williams (19:19)
Okay.

So first I want to just thank you for asking that question because I have had people say to me before, Michelle, you’re so focused on financials, so I’m focused on marketing and I don’t know how they go together. And my thought is I don’t know how to break them apart. I don’t know how to pull financials and marketing apart. I don’t know how to pull financials out of anything that we’re doing in business. It has to be a part of it. And so one of the things I would say is being very clear on the type of business that we’re building.

being very clear on who our ideal client is and our ideal product and the ideal space we’re gonna sell in, because if not, any money that we spend could be spent in the wrong direction, not having a return on investment and causing a problem. So the more clear we can be on who we are and who we serve and how we serve them, the better off any money that we spend will be. The next thing is, when I mentioned kind of whether you’re doing top -down financials or bottom -up financials,

knowing kind of what that sales goal is. Because that’s going to start to give you an idea of how much money I need to spend when you start figuring out what does it cost you to get a lead or to get a client, right? But we have to kind of know how much am I trying to get and how much money do I have that I can budget towards some type of marketing activity. Another piece we need to know is what are the marketing activities that our business is involved in? Like to me, I see your website as marketing activity.

I see it as an app, if you put advertising and marketing kind of all together, it is a marketing and advertising activity. So whether it’s a build of a website or it is the SEO behind a website or whether it’s just keeping up with it to keep it up to date, that is a calling card for us. That’s that store, that online storefront that is so important and how people see us.

looking at where are our people hanging out? I always say, where are your idle clients hanging out? Because that’s where you need to go. If they’re all hanging out at Neiman Marcus, we need to get out of Walmart. Like they’re not gonna be there, right? And if they are, they don’t want you to recognize them. So they’ve got a hat and dark glasses on. So, you know, if they’re hanging out in social media, we need to be in social media. If they’re hanging out on a Google search, we need to make sure that we’re searchable. So it’s about really dialing in.

Will Hanke – WTMP (21:28)
Thanks

Michelle Williams (21:46)
to where do I need to be, how much do I need to allow the marketing and advertising to work, and where are the people hanging out. Then we can start to budget an amount that we wanna put towards that so that we can see if it’s going to work.

Will Hanke – WTMP (22:05)
I love it. Yeah. You reminded me of a book I read probably four or five years ago by a guy named Dale Furtwengler. He wrote a book called Pricing for Profit, and he used that similar comparison of are you trying to sell to Walmart? Are you trying to sell to Neiman Marcus? You know, that kind of thing. And then your pricing should fit that particular model. interesting. Really great book, by the way. So.

Michelle Williams (22:32)
Yeah, that is a good one. I’ll make one comment on that. Well, I talked to a couple people last week and it was interesting, you know, when you start to see things show up multiple times and you’re like, okay, I had two different people tell me last week that they had given invoices to other business owners. So they were like trade coming into other business owners. And then that business owner was going to show it to their client.

and both business owners gave them back their invoices and told them to go mark it up because the level of client that they had, they could not hand them that invoice. It would be considered too low and therefore not enough value and quality. So one of them was told to double, the other was told to mark it up by 30 % and resubmit before they could hand it off. And that’s important for us to really think about who are we serving.

Will Hanke – WTMP (23:05)
Yeah.

Michelle Williams (23:19)
What are the expectations that they have? And for some, if they’re not price buyers, Now, a price buyer is gonna look at the low price all day long. But if somebody is buying on value and quality, they are expecting a higher price to go with that value and quality. And if we don’t give it…

They start to think something’s wrong with what they don’t think I’ve got a bargain. They think this is a lower quality value or service that we’re getting. And so really getting into the psyche and the mindset of who we’re selling to and how we’re trying to position ourselves in the market makes a big deal.

Will Hanke – WTMP (23:51)
Yeah, yeah, very good point there. What financial metrics should businesses track to measure the ROI of their marketing efforts and how could they use that data to make better decisions?

Michelle Williams (24:06)
Well, first, I think it’s being very clear on where you’re marketing and knowing we like I’m always of the opinion and will you probably have a lot of great insight on this as well, since this is kind of like you’re like the marketing piece is really important for you. But knowing what our expectations are when we market in an area, I think quite often we go in and we’re told to market there, but we don’t have an expectation. Like if I’m putting an ad somewhere.

What is my expectation for that ad? What am I wanting it to do? Because if I don’t know, how can I really compare it against a return on the investment? Or what am I tracking? Even knowing what we’re tracking, and there can be so many marketing metrics to be tracked. And I’ll tell you, that is not my number one place to play. But I know that if we go in to do anything, we have to have an expected outcome and we measure against the expected outcome.

And so for me, if I’m trying to just get somebody to get eyes on a site, I might check how many clicks, how many times did they go to my website? Like, am I just trying to create a familiarity? Now I can start to look at what is the cost to get somebody just to become familiar with me, right? So if I’m building my full, let’s say, marketing budget, you’ll hear percentages all over the place. I’m pretty conservative, and I would like to say that if we’re looking at just maybe maintaining a business,

Now I personally look at marketing as a percentage of gross profit, not as a percentage of sales, because some things that we’re selling, can distort because we’re so product based very often. So I usually say somewhere in that 6 to 8 % is just maintaining. It’s just kind of staying where you are. In a growth model, we can see 8, 10, 12, 15, even up to 20%.

Rarely do I want marketing budgets to go over 20 % simply because 20% % if that was marketing, 10 % and under is usually rent, 30 % is people. We are eating up the money that we have very quickly to run the company and then remember back to that profit and hello pay me owner, that starts to diminish. So we really have to look at that.

Will Hanke – WTMP (26:09)
Great.

Michelle Williams (26:13)
The other thing I’ll say is I always suggest when it comes to marketing especially for smaller companies that are just getting started I always ask the question do you have more time or do you have more money? Because let’s not forget both are currencies, right? One we spend in a checkbook or a bank account one we spend on a calendar So if I’ve got somebody new to business and they’re like I’ve got more time than money I’m gonna be go glad hand go network go everywhere you can

put out flyers, put out hangers, do everything you can that is super low cost. If they come back and tell me I’ve got more money than time because we’re busy and we’re scaling and we’re building, I’m gonna be go put your money out there then, right? Go run your ads and do the things that you need to do. And then in the middle, there’s a balancing act between what you want and what you have time and money for. So even just kind of understanding the dynamic there will help you with spending money.

Will Hanke – WTMP (27:08)
Yeah, yeah, really good. When it comes to like cash flow and handling the money that you are making, what are some strategies around managing that that businesses can sustain without, you know, jeopardizing their financial health?

Michelle Williams (27:23)
Well, first off, I am a big proponent, because I am profit first, of having a separate bank account to manage some of these things. So I really encourage my clients to have what I call a cost of goods account, so that when you sell that blind shade, shutter, window treatment, sofa, I don’t care what it is you sell, the money that they paid you to cover the cost of that good,

and maybe the sales tax goes into a bank account that is separate from the operating account of the business. Therefore, those funds don’t get commingled. So that way we know that we always have the money to pay for the product or the service that that person purchased. And then the profit from that, that’s a bigger conversation on when do we recognize profit, but the profit then can flow into an account that can be allocated to cover.

the day -to -day business expenses. So when we talked about cash flow, it’s about knowing how money comes in and goes out. The other thing I would say is take a large down payment. 75 % to 100 % down payment is what I prefer. I can’t go to Home Depot and order anything special for me that they’re not going to charge me for in advance.

And so where it used to be years ago when I started back in 2000, was 50 % was very much common if you got a deposit at all. And now most designers and most window treatment specialists are 75 to 100 % because the majority of the costs come up front. know, the cost that comes at the end, which is primarily their installation, you don’t want 50 % sitting on the back of the installation if something goes wrong.

I’d rather 10 to 25 % be sitting on the heavy lifting of the install. And so really trying to figure out how to move the cash upfront so that you have more cash flow as you’re working to get the things done. Cause you’re paying office staff and to order the product or receive the product and check the product and pack the product and all these other things. And if not, you’re going to be paying for that upfront before you get the money on the backend.

Will Hanke – WTMP (29:31)
Yeah, I think people always look at me crazy when I tell them I have six bank accounts, you know, at the same bank, right? Because everything’s coming into one and it’s almost like the envelope thing, right? You you put stuff in different envelopes, same concept. Yeah.

Michelle Williams (29:38)
Yes, thanks.

That’s exactly what it’s like. So it’s interesting because in the last couple of months, I’ve spoken to people that did not hold out sales tax appropriately. So then they got hit with sales tax issues. I’ve had some that didn’t hold out federal taxes and state taxes appropriately. So then they got hit with that. I’ve had some that have been

hit with a co -mingling of funds because they didn’t take a large enough down payment or somebody didn’t pay them because of some small thing. And so then it’s created this cascading effect where they’ve had to borrow money from one place to pay it back in another. And now they’re behind that eight ball and they’re waiting on the sale of the next thing to make up for the payment of the back thing. I’ve got some where they’ve not paid off all the product and the…

The credit cards are too high. And so now there’s a credit card bill for work that’s already done and paid for that they’ve got to now pay off with profit from the next job. I’ve seen every single bit of it and probably 10 other ways to screw it all up. And so the thing is, if we’re not allocating our money appropriately, here’s another big one I’ve seen, Will. I’ve seen well -meaning coaches tell people that they should be spending 20 % of their gross profit on marketing.

And the people are out there just spending this on marketing without understanding the revenue that it is supposed to generate. And so what’s happened is they’ve now blown through all of their savings because they were told to go spend it. That’s like the equivalent of being told, here’s your estimated tax payment to the government, but not being told based on you making this amount of money and having this in that profit, right? These numbers are correlated. And so if we are only looking at the metric of

I’ve got to spend 10 % or 8%. We’ve got to look at it and how it fits into the larger puzzle and what is the revenue that is supposed to be generated by that 20 % or whatever the percentage is so that I can keep spending it. If not, we will blow through any savings that we have very quickly with very little to show for it.

Will Hanke – WTMP (31:41)
Yeah. Yeah. I have a lot of conversations with business owners that’ll call because obviously we came on the radar, right? They need marketing. They realize that. part of that discovery call is, did you spend money on Google ads or Facebook ads? And I’d say I’d say 60 % of the time, maybe it’s, yeah, we tried it. It didn’t work. And and

Obviously it works, right? We do it for a lot of businesses and we do it well. And I think it does come down to, from a KPI standpoint, cost per lead. How much was each lead that you got, as you mentioned earlier? And then, did you put a dollar in and a quarter came out, or did you put a dollar in and $10 came out?

Michelle Williams (32:31)
That’s true, it’s true. But here’s the thing, first of all, we have to have an idea back to what we said earlier about what you’re measuring, and then we have to measure it. But we also have to do some testing to realize when is it working? Because sometimes we pull the plug too easy, right, or too quickly, and we haven’t given it time, or we’re doing A -B testing, or split testing, or some type of testing, and we’ve not even given that a chance to work. There is some…

Will Hanke – WTMP (32:47)
Okay.

Michelle Williams (32:56)
trial and error at the very beginning of almost any marketing that we do. I think about it like this. I used to go fishing with my dad all the time. I still love to go fishing with my dad. And one of the things that we’ve always talked about is you have to use the right bait for the right season for the fish you’re trying to catch and the water source that you’re fishing. And so what I look at marketing is a very similar exercise. You know, am I in freshwater? Am I in saltwater? What fish am I trying to catch?

Are they closer to the shore or in deeper water? Like, do they come to the top or do they go to the bottom? What are they doing? What are their activities? What foods do they eat? Well, it’s the same thing when we’re going after people. So for us to start figuring out what that is, we got to cast out a few times to see if they’re biting today, to see if they’re going to catch what we’re putting out. And if not, then we might need to adjust and try again. If we just say it doesn’t work without the adjustment or we’re just…

scattering food out there that no fish wants, then it’s not going to work. And so there, has to be a thoughtful process for marketing. I would say spending on the plan behind the marketing before you market, just like anything. really big on creating a strategy and a plan and then adding in the money. So before we start marketing, we got to have a plan and then we execute the plan. We manage and measure the plan and we allocate money to the plan.

Will Hanke – WTMP (34:23)
Yeah, yeah, very, very interesting. Thank you. When it comes to profit, right now we’ve got a business that maybe is profiting a little bit and we’re considering reinvesting some of that back into, let’s say marketing. What would be some indicators that suggest it’s the right time to do that?

Michelle Williams (34:44)
Well, first I would suggest that if the money is additional and that you’re not losing the ability to pay for other things that are absolutely necessary. Like I’m not going to take money that’s going to keep the rent paid to be able to do it. So truly profit, right? It might be, I’m going to be looking at the industry. I’m going to be looking at the economy to say what is happening right now. Does it make sense?

Will Hanke – WTMP (35:01)
Yeah, yeah.

Michelle Williams (35:12)
I would also be looking at things of am I willing to spend more money or put more money in and am I putting it into a known venture or am I putting it in so that I can go do that testing of the waters somewhere else? Like what is it that I’m really putting the money in for? And then I would also have a limit. How much am I willing to put in so that I can see if it’s going to pay off? Because at some point as the owner we can’t take so much out of our home for so long.

There’s only a small amount of time that we can do that. And it may even be, well, I’ve seen it where we just need one extra big whole house and we will be where we need. So it becomes a very limited amount of marketing to get that. But it becomes smart money to spend when you know what the cost of the lead is, you know that you’re marketing in an area that works for you, you know the messaging of what you’re saying. It becomes less risky. I’m not into taking profit and throwing it into a risky venture.

of scattering to try to hope something sticks. That’s not a good use of it. think when it’s a well thought out marketing plan, then it can be very useful. But we also talk about in Profit First, not doing so much plow back, right? Where we’re taking the money and plowing it back in. At some point, we have to make payment to the owners of the company. And many are being paid out of that additional net profit.

Will Hanke – WTMP (36:36)
Yeah, yeah, very important. So when it comes to some tools like that, we’ve obviously mentioned Profit First, definitely a book worth starting with. What are some tools and resources that you could recommend to help window treatment and awning companies better manage their financials?

Michelle Williams (36:47)
Mm

Yeah, well, one is going to be use some type of software like QuickBooks, FreshBooks, SageZero, something like that. So using an accounting software package, I think is instrumental in good financial health. I know that I’ve spoken to some companies, even million dollar companies that are still running things through Excel, and that blows me away. not that I don’t think that Excel has some good information, but I think that it’s hard to really be able to measure that and be able to

run reports in a certain way. So I would encourage those companies that maybe started with that moving to a more well thought out accounting package. The second I would say is certainly using a CRM to make sure that you can keep up with the cost of the leads and the conversion rates and kind of that detailed marketing information so that you know how to continue the spend.

And then third, would say I would use something like Matric Solutions that we built because it simply allows you to pull some of that information together to make decisions and helps you set the KPIs and the measurements to be able to manage against. Now we do not measure the marketing data. That’s what a CRM is for. But we measure the financial data that would correlate with that marketing data.

But even if nothing else just start looking at the numbers. There are numbers all over our businesses, right? Being able to look at those numbers and recognize that they’re giving us information that if we use it appropriately we can literally change the direction of our company whether it’s not just on the marketing side, know marketing starts early early on with who we are and how we present ourselves but marketing ends with how we in that job and how we

complete that installation and how we show up and what we do because that’s going to determine whether that word of mouth buzz is going to continue and whether they’re going to come back. And so really looking at the client journey all the way through and measuring their satisfaction from the beginning to the end and the lifetime value of that client, are they going to call you back again and again and again? I just really think that so often we don’t look, the numbers can be overwhelming and I don’t.

I don’t disagree with that, but even choosing and selecting a few KPIs that are going to get us closer to where we want to go and then building with a strategy will start to give you an indication of what other numbers and where to look to really be able to manage effectively.

Will Hanke – WTMP (39:26)
Yeah, yeah. And a good CRM will track, obviously, that other piece. We’ve built out, our CRM is called Lead Boomerang, and we’ve built it out specifically for the window treatment and awning industry. But you could see, like I said earlier, I put a dollar in and $10 came out. You can get that data and know that, OK, this worked. We did money mailer and it didn’t work. We did Yelp ads and we broke even. So you can get that kind of data from.

from those kinds of systems too. Yeah. So one last question, maybe not the most exciting question, but I think it’s something that comes up, and that’s financial setbacks. You mentioned a couple of businesses that maybe didn’t put some money aside to pay their federal taxes, right? How can businesses prepare and handle those unexpected financial setbacks that could really

Michelle Williams (39:57)
Exactly, exactly.

Yep.

Will Hanke – WTMP (40:23)
kind of obviously impact their marketing strategy, but just their entire business.

Michelle Williams (40:27)
Yeah, well the first I would say is to minimize the setbacks. And so what do I mean by that? The more that we are not looking or having our arms around the numbers in a company, the more we are opening up the opportunity for setbacks, right? So what that means is knowing how money comes in and out, telling every dollar where to go, creating the bank accounts, whether it’s 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, but creating bank accounts with specific uses.

and the money goes in there and it is only used for that item. Saving for the rainy day, not spending more in the business, just like in our home. If we spend more than we make, we’re going to be upside down. And the more that we don’t have money in savings and the more that we’re not saving money for these unexpected setbacks, the more we’re in trouble. The more that we can make sure that we are tax compliant.

whether that is sales tax, state tax, federal tax, self -employment tax, whatever taxes are coming our way, property taxes, making certain that we know what those implications are and that we’re covering for them. And then another I would say that gets a lot of us is saving money to hire because just walking out and hiring somebody without any money and savings to be able to have a three -month onboard ramp for that person is going to potentially cost us because

it is rare that we would hire somebody that it did not take resources from you the owner or from somebody else in the company to get them on boarded and up to speed. So I usually suggest that we’re saving three months in advance of that salary so that we don’t feel so badly when it’s they’re not hitting the ground running on day one that they’ve got a little bit of a slower ramp to that. So even just creating the strategy to think ahead. I always ask that if you’ve built a strategic plan

Give a dollar amount to every single thing on the plan and then ask where that dollar is accounted for in your budget, in your income, in your net profit, wherever it is supposed to show up, making certain that it is in there. So the more that we can acknowledge and plan for and then have kind of that contingency plan, the better off we can be to handle those setbacks.

Will Hanke – WTMP (42:41)
Yeah, yeah. I love that you said that. I always look at, you know, the money as each dollar is a little soldier that can go out and either goof off and waste your money or you can go out and do something to bring back other soldiers. Right. I don’t. Yeah. Yeah. So I love that that analogy. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate all your insights. I I I’ve admitted before.

Michelle Williams (42:56)
That’s exactly right.

Will Hanke – WTMP (43:09)
that I didn’t get into the whole finance part of my business probably until seven, eight years ago. And prior to that, I was just trying to buy groceries, you know, and just making it. And once I kind of got into the world of, okay, I need to focus and understand where my soldiers are going, right? It really, really changed my business. So I really appreciate all of your insights today.

Michelle Williams (43:35)
You’re welcome Will. Thank you for having me.

Will Hanke – WTMP (43:37)
Yeah, so if people want to learn more about Scarlet Thread or Matric, where can they go to find more information?

Michelle Williams (43:45)
Yes, so the websites are scarletthreadconsulting.com and metriquesolutions.com And I know you’ll probably put that in the show notes. It’s M-E -T -R -I -Q -U -E. And then you can find us on Instagram at scarletthreadatl and Metrique Solutions and on Facebook as well and also on LinkedIn.

Will Hanke – WTMP (43:53)
Of course. Yeah.

Awesome. So you’re all over the place. That’s great. I love to hear that. Which is a whole other conversation, right? Getting all those pieces in play as well. Yeah.

Michelle Williams (44:06)
all over the place. Yep.

It’s been years. It’s not a it’s not something that happens quickly, but I’ve got a team and it’s been years. I’ll put it that way.

Will Hanke – WTMP (44:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you again for your time. I really do appreciate it. If you’re a listener and you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe. We’ve got a lot more awesome experts like Michelle. And if you want to learn more, make sure to visit our show notes page to get the links to Michelle’s different platforms. And thank you again, Michelle. Hope you all have a fantastic day.

Michelle Williams (44:45)
Thank you, Will.

Will Hanke – WTMP (44:45)
Awesome. That was great.

Guest Profile: Georgiana Schwandt

Georgiana (Georgi) Giese Schwandt, founder of Incredible Windows, hails from central Illinois where she imbibed the values of hard work, compassion, and dedication. A former educator with 28 years of experience across four school districts, Georgi now leads her team in covering thousands of windows in the greater Madison, WI area. Her commitment to serving clients with kindness and respect remains unwavering.

Other Notes/Links:

To learn more about Georgiana Schwandt visit: https://www.incrediblewindows.com/

pssst…. want to be a guest on the show?

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Transcript

[0:02] Alright.
[0:02] Hello everyone.
[0:03] Welcome to another episode of marketing pains.
[0:05] My name is Will hanky.
[0:08] This is the podcast where we talked with real window treatment and Awning business owners about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business today.
[0:18] We’re on covering success.
[0:20] This is episode 33 and I’m excited to have Georgiana Schwandt who we called Georgie with us from Madison, Wisconsin.
[0:30] She has been a client of ours for probably around I think nine or ten months now and we’re excited to have Georgie with us today.
[0:38] And let’s Jump Right In Georgie.
[0:40] How are you?
[0:41] I’m good.
[0:42] Well and you doing fantastic so excited to have you on today?
[0:47] Thank you.
[0:47] I appreciate the opportunity.
[0:48] Well, yeah.
[0:50] Well, let’s Jump Right In tell me a little bit about your business.
[0:53] It’s called incredible Windows.
[0:55] You’re in the Madison Wisconsin area.
[0:58] Tell us a little bit more.
[1:00] Well, so my story would I give him a very abbreviated version when I meet with a customer is this simply this is my retirement business.
[1:11] So I had a real job for 28 years as a high school educator and I retired relatively young in as far as Retirement term door speaking and I needed something to do and look around for about two years trying to figure that out.
[1:27] Try different things including real estate appraisal.
[1:30] I hated it took the courses got certified and I don’t like this.
[1:34] So I thought well, let’s look for something else and I went out for lunch or someone who is selling window treatments in Northern Illinois.
[1:42] And she said you had to do what I do.
[1:43] I said I think you’re right and it was about that quick.
[1:47] So that was in 2006 and here I am almost 18 years later selling window treatments on a part-time basis as I shop at home.
[1:56] I’ve never had a storefront.
[1:57] I never will and I I’m enjoy great success.
[2:03] Wow, okay, so you don’t like the storefront idea tell me more about that.
[2:09] Well, there are a couple reasons I decided that first of all, I was a high school principal in Madison for eight years managing lots and lots of people including students and staff and parents and you know legislators and being involved and I wanted a simple business model that was manageable.
[2:31] I didn’t want to have the expense of the storefront and I have no regrets.
[2:36] I know it took me a while to get started.
[2:39] Of course, it wasn’t easy, but I feel like I’ve done it and I was still learning and I still when I do grow.
[2:48] Good good.
[2:49] So your business model is get the lead go to the home pitch the pitch the installer.
[2:57] Whatever the product do you get the payment right then or do you go back and do a proposal and then of course do the install later?
[3:08] Well, it works in different ways.
[3:11] Ideally what actually the ideal situation happened yesterday where indeed I meant with a customer.
[3:19] She did a remodel over 30 year old home and was when a new window treatments.
[3:24] I we went in and talked about her needs and what she wanted and if it’s a she’s doing it in two parts.
[3:30] So we did the bedrooms and baths first and if it’s a relatively small project meaning 10 12 15 blinds, I can do a quote pretty easily in the home and then I can present it to her and discuss it and I said, are you ready to move forward you want to think about?
[3:48] Thought she said I’ll get my credit card.
[3:51] Okay that one place in the home if it’s a more involved proposal.
[4:00] Like I just did one actually a Monday just 38 hardwired roller Shades why I wanted to think about that a little bit.
[4:08] I got to sign proposal this morning.
[4:10] So, you know, it just differs on mature situation.
[4:14] Sure Okay, it definitely makes sense.
[4:17] Yeah.
[4:18] Another one has to address throw that into where I’m at with it.
[4:21] Mmm and no customer who’s building a new home and it’s you know, they’ve done the groundbreaking and all that.
[4:28] So we just with a fine-tooth comb and through every room and discuss needs so it’s a process for some others.
[4:36] It’s quick and easy.
[4:37] Yeah.
[4:37] Yeah.
[4:38] So tell me about that mix new home construction versus people that are already, you know embedded in their home.
[4:48] I Yes, well, I would encourage people if they’re building or remodeling a new home to contact a window treatment providers quickly as possible because too often they don’t think about things that we can help them with for example a popular door in Wisconsin today and that perhaps is Nationwide is a full glass or a partial glass on the as a window on the door.
[5:16] Well people don’t often.
[5:18] Think about the fact that that might need some privacy.
[5:22] So if indeed a blind is needed they need to think about the door handle.
[5:26] So can I get a blind behind that door handle and if it’s one of the you know, the lever door handles very popular today at new construction and remodels that’s more difficult.
[5:38] It can be done but it’s more difficult.
[5:40] So this I can point out simple things or another window treatment person can’t find those things out or simply the molding and the placement of the windows.
[5:48] And do you really want that high window?
[5:50] There’s a octagon, you know it just you know, as people are beginning to think about a remodel or build.
[5:57] It’s important to bring in that window treatment person.
[6:01] Sure.
[6:02] The other thing we can help them with in that situation is talking about if they want to do power house that blank going to operate.
[6:09] Is it going to be a hard wire?
[6:10] Is it going to be batteries?
[6:11] Can you reach it plus the whole budget issue?
[6:17] If they wait till the very end, it’s often like oh my gosh.
[6:20] I didn’t realize custom window treatments were so much money.
[6:24] But if we can help them with that to understand the value and the class upfront it behooves all of us.
[6:33] Yeah.
[6:34] Yeah makes that conversation a little easier than he does.
[6:37] Yeah, I mean fortunately I’m going to be able to offer financing shortly to which will help them those bigger projects.
[6:44] Yeah, yeah, that’s going to be a big game changer 24.
[6:48] Yeah.
[6:48] I’m looking forward to having that option for customers.
[6:51] That’s awesome.
[6:52] That’s great.
[6:53] So we’ve been talking kind of about your ideal customer.
[6:56] What about commercial?
[6:58] Do you guys do any commercial work or is it mostly all residential we do some commercial work the one I just told you about the 38 hardwired rollers is a commercial project.
[7:08] But the way I get the commercial projects is typically because I’ve done the customers home.
[7:15] and they’ve you know, we’ve had the camps to work together and this one I mean they they didn’t do any shopping that I mean, I’ve helped them multiple times in multiple projects and they just fortunately like to work with me and I gave him a fair price and I’ll forego so I only do small commercial projects and then a lot of Culver’s in the Madison area some smaller instruments offices and not a couple of wineries, but not the big not the big High-rise residential Halls on campus and I’m not doing that kind of work.
[7:51] Very good.
[7:52] Okay, very good.
[7:53] Cool.
[7:54] All right, so we talked about your story a little bit or who you are talked about kind of who your target market is.
[8:03] Let’s let’s talk about the part that I really like, which is a marketing piece.
[8:09] So tell me about your marketing mix.
[8:11] I mentioned that you are one of our clients.
[8:14] So you’ve got a digital marketing piece kind of tell us about the mix of what you’re up to.
[8:19] Well, let me back up a little bit.
[8:22] Well, you know as being in business 18 years the marketing has evolved significantly over the years, you know, I started long ago spending too much money on paper advertising.
[8:34] Okay, you know I had some result now I’m talking like between 2006 2010-11 whatever peel that away because I wasn’t getting any well not any but the results I was looking for.
[8:49] You’re talking about Direct Mail type stuff.
[8:51] So I’m talking about this is really going to date me yellow pages.
[8:56] Okay paper newspaper ads, you know those kinds of things.
[9:01] I don’t even think there’s a yellow page book out there anymore.
[9:04] I don’t know for sure.
[9:05] I don’t have one.
[9:06] That’s for sure.
[9:07] But anyway, so that brings me no through the course of time to working with you.
[9:13] Well, I’ve learned the value of the internet and Google my business and having a great website and consequently when we reached out to you you’ve helped me with all of that just yesterday somebody calls that hey week.
[9:31] I called you because you’ve got a great website and I saw what I was looking for and when can we get together?
[9:36] So and it’s going to be a great job great Polly told me over the phone so that Google My Business Connection the SEO that has been able to boost my business has has been tremendous.
[9:50] So that’s what I’m relying on mostly today.
[9:53] Okay, as far as As I’m getting the name out there about incredible windows.
[10:01] I was doing I was doing social media for several years spent a lot of money on it.
[10:11] I stuffed in it.
[10:12] Okay, and that was in September and I don’t feel like it’s been a big negative impact and its busiest I want to be so I you know, it’s the Google my business.
[10:25] My website it’s the reviews.
[10:27] Yeah having said that that’s only really a third of my business which I need because those are my new customers the other third are repeat customers.
[10:37] In fact, I have an installation going on today that they said.
[10:40] Oh we’ve added the sunroom.
[10:42] I need to do more Mentos 04.
[10:44] I moved.
[10:45] I have a new home that’s going in next week that afternoon.
[10:48] I was Old Flames five years ago.
[10:52] Another one is are they could buy a second home?
[10:55] And so, you know, I’ve helped people a second homes in Florida, Arizona just because of the installation services opportunities Hunter Douglas offers.
[11:03] And so that’s been great.
[11:05] And then the third way I get customers and marketing my referrals.
[11:11] I mean, so I try to nurture my existing customers.
[11:17] So they remember me when they have a friend who needs a project.
[11:20] So yeah.
[11:22] But yeah, there’s social media media hasn’t been something that me lying on Google my business and a great website as well.
[11:30] I rely on for new customers.
[11:32] Yeah.
[11:33] Yeah.
[11:33] That’s a good marketing mix though.
[11:35] I think the word of mouth and the referrals when I talk to a potential customer for our business.
[11:43] Those are the two things that they’ve they’ve relied on up to that point and it’s there’s a missing piece and I think that is that obviously the digital Marketing piece you can only go so far on referrals and word Ralph, right?
[11:57] So so no, no things like Valpak more I get Valpak and I thought the recycling bin right away.
[12:09] It’s okay and look through it and it’s just not something I would use and so that’s not been something that I feel shame has been my money.
[12:18] Sure.
[12:19] Okay.
[12:19] Do you do any old working or home show?
[12:22] Anything like that?
[12:24] Nope.
[12:25] Nope.
[12:26] I’m pretty protective of my time.
[12:28] Yeah, and you know, I have to think about the time involved in a home show and the expense and I know I just don’t feel like it’s worth my time.
[12:39] Sure.
[12:39] Okay.
[12:40] Now that does he doesn’t work for some but it’s not an area I choose to spend any time or money on sure sure.
[12:48] I do have a question here.
[12:49] What marketing efforts have you stopped using in the past years?
[12:52] You mentioned the social media thing and tell me a little bit more about what you were doing on the social side.
[13:00] I was doing Facebook and Instagram just you were just posting on those channels.
[13:07] Okay?
[13:08] Okay.
[13:08] Yeah, so I’ve heard in the past the phrase likes don’t pay the bills.
[13:14] Yeah, right.
[13:15] Exactly.
[13:16] Yeah, I think there’s I think there’s some some credibility in brand awareness sure for social media people people being aware and staying top of mind.
[13:30] I definitely don’t think social media pays the bills, right?
[13:33] It doesn’t.
[13:35] Yeah.
[13:35] Well there was one other thing that I do but it helps me stay in touch with customers is a monthly newsletter.
[13:42] So, okay.
[13:43] I do send that out once a month.
[13:46] Yeah, I think that’s that’s a great way to stay top of mind as well.
[13:50] Right?
[13:50] And you know, I’ve asked, you know, there’s a note at the top of my newsletter self.
[13:54] Please forward to anyone you met Thing Cody of Interest so you know it.
[14:00] Okay, no helps in the bar 1500 subscribers.
[14:04] Okay.
[14:05] Okay.
[14:07] Do you have any other incentives?
[14:09] Do you offer any special incentives to attract all my reviews things of that sort?
[14:15] No, I need to go.
[14:16] I need to do better about that.
[14:17] Typically we ask people to do it.
[14:21] I said typically sometimes I forget so but you know When I’ve asked most times people have been good about ready a nice review and then very pleased and he did yeah work on getting that systematize so I can get it done easier.
[14:38] And I know that we’ve been wearing has a way to do that.
[14:40] I need to utilize that yeah.
[14:43] Well, we we can jump on a training session and I’ll show you how I usually do it verbally because I always follow up if I can get there.
[14:54] That’s great.
[14:55] But if I’m big jobs.
[14:58] I always go back now if it’s one or two, I mean I go back by always follow up on the phone.
[15:02] Okay?
[15:03] Yeah, we’re checking.
[15:04] So yeah, so in the home at the end of the install you ask them really just would you leave us a review?
[15:11] Sure.
[15:11] Okay.
[15:12] Yeah and they’ll say yes, and then you need to follow up to get them at link or whatever.
[15:17] Yeah.
[15:17] Okay, very good.
[15:20] Some of our clients have a little business cards with the with the QR code on it that they can hand them a 10.
[15:27] Yeah, yeah.
[15:28] Okay.
[15:30] Did that will help me figure that one out, please.
[15:32] Yeah, we can do that.
[15:33] I depend upon people like you to help me in those areas.
[15:38] I know what my areas of expertise are.
[15:40] Yeah.
[15:41] Yeah sure.
[15:41] You aren’t just so that’s why we have helped and even write my shop at home and I’m a sole proprietor.
[15:48] I’m an escort back play tonight.
[15:50] Subcontract all my help.
[15:53] I can’t do it all yeah.
[15:55] Yeah.
[15:57] Right, right.
[15:58] Okay follow up marketing.
[16:00] You mentioned the newsletter you doing anything else on the follow-up side after the fact so my I have an assistant that I it’s a subchapter and she works maybe about six or eight hours a month.
[16:17] Not a lot.
[16:18] She’s a teacher but just as help me for five or six years.
[16:21] She does follow up calls at the 3-month in the 10 month Mark just to make sure everybody’s Happy and things are working.
[16:28] Well the subtract in and that’s been good.
[16:32] Because if there’s a problem I’m going to taken care of right away.
[16:34] Usually they would reach out to me, but sometimes it forgets or they just don’t part of the reason I want to do that at that 10 month Mark is because I use in a hundred Douglas installation services and they pay for service calls within the first year.
[16:50] So I went okay within the first year versus at month or teen when when it’s
done.
[16:56] This morning for yeah.
[16:59] Okay, that’s great.
[17:00] And it’s it gives you an excuse to follow up with the customer.
[17:03] Yeah, and maybe oh we’ve been meaning to call you right or another room or something like that.
[17:11] Oh, that’s fantastic.
[17:12] That’s good.
[17:14] Are you are there any Services now that you see that are becoming more and more profitable?
[17:21] Well, the only service is I really offer are selling hundred I was blind so I’m not sure what you can meaning Based Services will you know, we re yeah industry Will services things that you’re offering to your car to your clients.
[17:36] No, not really.
[17:38] We try to service our clients while so for example, if you know, there’s a repair that needs to be done and you know my hands.
[17:45] My husband is my right arm with the repairs situation.
[17:47] So he we pick up.
[17:49] And take them back pick them up,pick them up the blinds up pack them up send them in for repair and then take them back to the customer.
[17:59] So that’s that’s his area Okay, so so I mean this is service of people like I’m excited.
[18:05] No other dealers they here’s the place to ship it to and here you go, you know, so we try to provide that service for them.
[18:13] No try it we do.
[18:15] Okay and on the repairs, is that for only?
[18:19] Past clients.
[18:21] Yes.
[18:22] Yeah getting into the repair side of things can start to get pretty crazy if you’re it is and it’s not profitable, right if right.
[18:32] Yeah and my opinion so yeah, most of our clients do they want to stay very far away from repairs, right?
[18:41] The one exception I found is I interviewed Kelsey Stewart from Bloom and blinds which is a franchise and they Usually prefer to do the repairs with the mindset of that gets them in the door sure and they kind of use it as a loss leader.
[18:58] So I found that interesting that 95% of our clients don’t want anything to do with the repairs, but they do so any interesting.
[19:10] So, all right.
[19:12] So sounds like you need to work on the reviews.
[19:16] The reviews can really help the The the Google my business side of things, right?
[19:22] And you said that’s that’s a big driver for for New Leads as well as though I love that you guys are getting good leads from that as well.
[19:33] So what would you say to somebody who’s just getting started in the window treatment business that you know, they’re they’re struggling to get moving.
[19:43] What is something that they could do that would help Point them in the right direction.
[19:50] Well something that I would suggest when first of all find somebody to talk to who can mentor you know, like I said, I had a friend in Northern Illinois.
[20:01] It was my go-to because I knew nothing and I was an educator and I didn’t know anything about sales.
[20:12] I didn’t know anything about where the payments so you have to jump in and Learn Somehow.
[20:15] So having a mentor really helps but then I would also say not try to do it all at once.
[20:23] You know, I decided to keep my business model very simplistic.
[20:28] I started selling 100 Douglas and another brand and soft treatments within two or three years peeled away the other brand and soft treatments.
[20:38] First of all, there’s too many guards.
[20:40] I’m samples have to deal with and second goal too many products in to figure out and systems and I just want to simplify my business.
[20:49] So I would suggest rather than starting out with lots of offerings start with one will learn it figure out what you want to do and where you want to take your business and then if you choose to decide to add more do it one at a time and learn that product line.
[21:05] Yeah, so I think that’s pretty wise to yeah to not take advantage of the systems that are in place with a vendor seems foolish to me.
[21:20] I mean hundred Douglas has great systems that worked for me for all these years.
[21:24] I’ve learned them.
[21:25] I know how to use them.
[21:26] I know how to find information on how to get information they need it because I sure don’t know what all so learn the product line as well and I’m still learning.
[21:37] I mean somebody asked me about A pot recess Pocket Roller shade power yesterday was like mmm.
[21:44] I’ve never done that one.
[21:45] So sure enough.
[21:46] I was on the phone yesterday 13 all I could about it.
[21:49] So just be willing to roll your sleeves up and learn.
[21:55] Fantastic advice and if you don’t know the answer just tell I mean I always tell people I’ll find it and get back to them because and then be sure to get back to them.
[22:06] You know, we’ve all had people say I’ll get back to you and we never hear from them again.
[22:10] So right right follow-ups a big piece of that in it is yeah.
[22:16] Yeah, and if you’re not strong in that area, some people don’t have that that personality trait find somebody that you can add to your team that does that Yeah, so I mean certainly as a shop at home.
[22:29] I’m I’m a part-time business and they asked why not ask for fun.
[22:34] I wanted the flexibility of a shop at home and that was short front and that’s provided.
[22:39] I mean the shop at home has done that so I’m not know I guess.
[22:44] Yeah hell of it.
[22:45] Thank you so much for being on today.
[22:47] I really appreciate your time.
[22:49] If somebody wants to learn more about your business.
[22:52] Where can they go incredible and Those that come from the windows.com easy enough easy to find.
[23:00] Yeah again Georgie.
[23:01] Thank you so much for being on today.
[23:03] I really enjoyed your time.
[23:05] I appreciate you as a guest appreciate you as a person and thank you again.
[23:10] I hope you have a great great rest of your day you hope so too, but I appreciate your help and growing my business will.
[23:17] All right.
[23:18] Thank you very much very much.
[23:19] Thank you everybody for listening.
[23:21] We’ll see you on the next episode

Key Takeaways

• The market is seeing a shift towards luxury clients and budget-conscious customers.
• Technology integration, such as smart home features, is becoming increasingly important.
• Hiring and training remain crucial for business growth.
• The Sun Shading Expo showcased innovations in exterior shading solutions.

Current Market TrendsShift in Customer Base

Mike Lewis notes a significant change in their customer base:

“We’ve seen a lot of people go extra luxury and cost really wasn’t a factor… Or the opposite has hit and it’s like, hey, you we have this minimum and it seems like we’re getting a lot of minimum jobs too.”

This polarization of the market presents both challenges and opportunities for window treatment businesses.

Election Year Impact

The upcoming election is affecting consumer behavior. Mike explains:

“This happens every four years for us. Honestly, it’s election year and that’s is always a big thing and you know money trickles downhill.”

Opportunities in the Luxury Market

Jessica Harling emphasizes the importance of networking in the luxury market:

“You have to go where they live… Whether that is being on a board or going to a charity event or whatever, you just have to go where they live and literally network with them.”

Technology and Innovation

Smart Home Integration

The podcast highlights the increasing importance of smart home technology in the window treatment industry. Features like motorization, solar panels, and integration with voice assistants are becoming standard expectations for many customers.

Innovations from Sun Shading Expo

Mike shares an interesting innovation he saw at the expo:

“There was a retractable awning company that will still are retractable awning that we have puts lights in there. They’re actually integrated in it’s not an aftermarket thing.”

This kind of integration showcases how the industry is evolving to meet customer demands for both functionality and aesthetics.

Hiring and Training Challenges

Changing Perspective on Hiring

Jessica challenges the common notion that it’s hard to find installers:

“It is not hard to find installers. It is hard to find what is the expectation in your head of a perfect installer. You have to train them.”

Importance of Training

Both guests emphasize the crucial role of ongoing training. Mike shares:

“Training them after, basically we always say after a year is when you should probably stop making mistakes, right? But it takes a long time to really get there.”

Looking Ahead to 2025

As the industry prepares for 2025, both guests are focusing on growth and preparation. Mike is expecting a “good bounce back” and is focusing on SEO to prepare for increased demand. Jessica is planning group workshops across the country to provide training on products, sales, and customer service.

The window treatment and awning industry is evolving rapidly, with shifts in customer demographics, technological advancements, and ongoing challenges in hiring and training. By staying informed about these trends and adapting strategies accordingly, businesses can position themselves for success in the coming year.

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