Winning The Away Game

This episode is for founders, operators, and anyone rebuilding an identity after a chapter of life ends. Deon Gouws, Chief Investment Officer at Credo in London, and Alistair Hargreaves, former Springbok and Saracens captain turned Wolf Pack co-founder, sit down with Justinus and Flip to talk about judgement under pressure and reinvention without a script. The core tension: rugby careers and investment careers both come with hard-won instincts, but neither guarantees you'll succeed the moment you step outside the environment that built them. From a stadium beer ban to the 2008 financial crisis to a concussion that ended a professional career, this is a conversation about building good judgement when certainty isn't available.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:49 Favourite Springbok Memories
08:29 Family, Fathers and the Game
09:54 Alistair's Springbok Memories
14:04 Growing Up Together in SA Rugby
17:34 The Concussion Decision
20:42 Building a Culture That Puts People First
23:56 From Cambridge to Credo
30:20 How Deon and Alistair Became Friends
34:53 The Myth of Transferable Skills
38:01 Building Wolf Pack From Scratch
47:04 Lessons From 2008 and Covid
51:00 Building a South Africa That Works for Everyone
55:00 World Cup 2027 and Sign Off

Winning The Away Game is brought to you by The Lekker Network. The Lekker Network brings together South Africa's top entrepreneurs, executives, innovators, and everyday people from all over the world to connect, engage, support, do business with each other, and create lasting impact. Find out more at https://thelekkernetwork.com/

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716

Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584

Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/

Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/

Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/

Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

This episode is for anyone who has had to lead people without the authority, language, or home-field advantage they used to rely on.

Andre Pretorius went from Springbok flyhalf to head coach in Japan, coaching players through a translator and rebuilding his entire leadership style from the ground up.

Hank van der Merwe emigrated to Australia, lost most of his wealth in the process, and had to learn to lead people who didn't respond to the direct South African style that had always worked for him. Together they unpack the night Andre nearly lost his players' trust for good, why servant leadership isn't a buzzword, and what Hank believes AI can never replace: judgement.

Chapters

00:00 Cold Open

00:44 Welcome and Episode Setup

01:53 Favourite Springbok Memories

09:29 The Culture Shock of Emigrating to Australia

17:20 From the Leopards to Coaching in Japan

20:52 The Loneliest Month of Andre's Career

28:33 The Night Andre Broke His Players

34:35 Servant Leadership and Letting Go of Ego

42:06 Why Hank Wrote Yes I Can

55:10 Trust, AI and the Future of Judgement

59:04 Connecting With the Next Generation

01:00:10 Hank's Advice for Parenting Teenagers

01:02:32 What Andre Has Learned About People in Japan

01:06:00 World Cup Predictions and Sign-Off

Winning The Away Game is brought to you by The Lekker Network. The Lekker Network brings together South Africa's top entrepreneurs, executives, innovators, and everyday people from all over the world to connect, engage, support, do business with each other, and create lasting impact.

Find out more at https://thelekkernetwork.com/

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716

Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584

Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/

Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/

Check out our other channels: Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke

Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/

Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

What happens when the biggest decision of your life looks completely irrational to everyone around you?

Former professional rugby players Jonathan Mokuena and Ernie Kruger share how faith, identity and purpose shaped the defining moments of their lives. From walking away from rugby dreams to rebuilding life in America, this conversation explores what it really means to succeed when success is no longer measured by status, titles or recognition.

If you're an entrepreneur, leader, immigrant or anyone facing a difficult life decision, this episode offers practical wisdom on navigating uncertainty with conviction.

00:00 The Decision That Changed Everything

01:12 Meet Jonathan & Ernie

04:18 Favourite Rugby Memories

08:05 Walking Away From Rugby

14:36 Hearing "Turn Around"

19:42 Starting Again in America

27:18 The Four Stages of Immigration

35:10 Identity Beyond Sport

43:52 Confronting Racism

52:15 Faith During Uncertainty

01:01:40 Leadership Through Obedience

01:09:12 Final Reflections

Winning The Away Game is brought to you by The Lekker Network. The Lekker Network brings together South Africa’s top entrepreneurs, executives, innovators, and everyday people from all over the world to connect, engage, support, do business with each other, and create lasting impact. Find out more at https://thelekkernetwork.com/

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716

Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584

Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/

Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/

Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/

Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

This episode is for athletes, founders, operators, South Africans abroad, and anyone trying to turn credibility into something useful after the spotlight moves on.

Keegan Daniel shares the hard reality of life after professional rugby: identity, purpose, financial planning, and the uncomfortable question of what value you can offer once the title no longer opens doors. Sven Boermeester brings the global builder’s view, showing how South African networks around the world can become more than nostalgia — they can become engines for opportunity, jobs, capital, and impact.

Together, Keegan and Sven unpack the real away game: starting over, building pathways, using networks properly, and creating systems that help other people win.

00:00 Introduction
02:33 Favourite Springbok memories
05:40 Eastern Cape rugby and hidden talent
09:23 Keegan Daniel’s unusual pathway to Durban
10:30 Sven Boermeester’s global publishing journey
14:26 Captaining the Sharks and proving people wrong
16:34 Self-belief, arrogance, and controlling the controllables
19:14 The South African network advantage
21:20 The Dubai story that changed everything
26:22 How Winning The Away Game became a book
29:24 Japan, the Sharks, and knowing when to leave
34:01 The identity crisis after professional sport
47:27 What Keegan would tell his 20-year-old self
49:35 Building a South Africa that works for everyone
58:04 Diaspora, jobs, and bringing value home
01:01:23 Alumni networks and stories beyond the gates
01:06:47 Final question and World Cup hopes

Winning The Away Game is brought to you by The Lekker Network. The Lekker Network brings together South Africa’s top entrepreneurs, executives, innovators, and everyday people from all over the world to connect, engage, support, do business with each other, and create lasting impact. Find out more at https://thelekkernetwork.com/

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716

Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584

Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/

Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/

Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/

Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

This episode isn’t about what happens after success.
It’s about what you do while you’re in it.
Adriaan Strauss was building businesses while playing at the highest level.
Stephan Weyers started as a mascot—and never stopped stacking opportunities until he built a high-performance coaching business.
Two completely different journeys.
One shared principle: they never waited.
If you're a founder, operator, or athlete, this episode will challenge how you think about timing, effort, and long-term success.


Listen on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716
Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584
Connect with Justinus: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/
Connect with Flip: https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/
Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/
Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

In this episode of Winning The Away Game, Justinus Adriaanse and Flip van der Merwe sit down with Jan Pieterse and Ollie le Roux to explore life beyond elite performance. From Springbok rugby and international athletics to business leadership and coaching, this conversation dives into the uncomfortable transition from being known for what you do to discovering who you are.

If you're a founder, executive, athlete, or anyone navigating change, this episode offers practical lessons on resilience, reinvention, work ethic, and building a meaningful second act.

Winning The Away Game is brought to you by The Lekker Network. The Lekker Network brings together South Africa’s top entrepreneurs, executives, innovators, and everyday people from all over the world to connect, engage, support, do business with each other, and create lasting impact. Find out more at https://thelekkernetwork.com/

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716

Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584

Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/

Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/

Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/

Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

What happens when the identity you’ve spent decades building suddenly changes?

In this episode of Winning The Away Game, Justinus and Flip are joined by former South African international cricketer, Pat Symcox, and filmmaker, Desmond Denton, for a powerful conversation about identity, community, immigration, purpose, and reinvention.

From Pat’s extraordinary decision to risk his career to play for South Africa, to Desmond’s journey of building a new life in America, this episode explores what happens when success, location, profession, and even community are stripped away.

If you’re a founder, leader, expatriate, athlete, or anyone navigating major life transitions, this conversation offers a practical and deeply human perspective on starting over without losing yourself.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:30 Favourite Springbok Memories
04:40 Pat’s Hospital Management Career
08:20 Retiring From Cricket… Again
12:15 The Path Back to Professional Cricket
15:20 The Decision That Changed Everything
18:40 Identity Beyond Your Career
21:20 Moving to America and Starting Over
23:00 The Importance of Community
26:10 South Africa, Adversity and Growth
30:30 How to Build a New Community
32:20 The Challenge of Reinventing Yourself
37:30 Success, Identity and Mental Health
53:00 Staying Present Under Pressure
01:05:00 Life Lessons and Final Reflections

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716

Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584

Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/

Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/

Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/

Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

What does it really take to leave South Africa and build a new life abroad?

In this episode of Winning The Away Game, Kirsten and Marc share the highs, lows and unexpected lessons from rebuilding their lives in North America. From Olympic-level mental toughness to navigating identity loss, family separation and starting from zero, this conversation goes far beyond immigration. It’s a masterclass in resilience, adaptability and embracing uncertainty.

Whether you're considering a move abroad, already living overseas, or simply facing a major life transition, this episode offers practical wisdom and powerful perspective.

• Why "burning the boats" can accelerate commitment and growth
• How Olympic mental models apply to business and life
• The emotional reality of leaving family behind
• Why mindset determines the quality of your immigration journey
• The hidden challenges nobody prepares expats for
• How South Africans develop resilience through uncertainty

00:00 Introduction
03:00 Favourite Springbok Memories
05:00 Marc's Olympic Race Walking Journey
08:05 Moving to America and Starting Over
09:40 Helping Kids Adapt to a New Country
11:15 Burning the Boats and Going All In
12:30 Marc's Olympic Qualification Story
20:00 Applying Elite Mindsets to Life and Business
22:20 The Power of Mindset During Immigration
25:20 Dealing with Homesickness and Challenges
27:20 Identity Loss and Starting From Scratch
33:15 The Biggest Immigration Mistakes
38:40 Grief, Loss and Living Abroad
43:40 The Emotional Cost of Leaving Family Behind
46:00 Unexpected Highlights of Immigration
51:20 Why South Africans Adapt So Well
54:10 Sport, Community and Finding Belonging Abroad
01:02:00 The Springboks, Identity and the Future
01:05:20 Closing Reflections

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716

Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584

Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/

Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/

Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/

Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

What happens when the thing that defined you no longer defines you?

In this episode of Winning The Away Game, Justinus Adriaanse and Flip van der Merwe sit down with rugby international and Behind The Ruck co-host Rudy Page, alongside former banking executive, helicopter pilot, and Relocated South African founder Jan Higu.

From professional sport to entrepreneurship, from executive leadership to immigration, this conversation explores the uncomfortable reality of starting over. Both guests share deeply personal stories about identity, purpose, fear, reinvention, and what it takes to build something meaningful after success.

If you've ever faced a major life transition, wondered what's next, or felt like you're starting from zero again, this episode is for you.

Key Takeaways
Why losing your identity can be harder than losing your job
How Rudy Page rebuilt purpose after retiring from professional rugby
Lessons Jan learned from leaving corporate leadership and moving abroad
Why vulnerability creates stronger communities than perfection
The hidden emotional costs of immigration and reinvention
How continuous learning becomes your greatest advantage in a second career
Chapters

00:00 Introduction
03:10 Favourite Springbok Memories
06:58 Why Rudy Retired From Rugby
08:40 Starting Behind The Ruck
10:40 Losing Purpose After Sport
14:20 Reinventing Yourself Multiple Times
16:00 Immigration, Adversity and Resilience
21:10 Learning Podcasting From Scratch
24:40 Lessons From Rugby That Still Matter
28:30 Why Jan Left Corporate Life
31:20 The Reality Of Living Abroad
36:00 Helicopters, Celebrities and Risk
39:30 Fear, Faith and Uncertainty
43:00 When Things Go Wrong Overseas
47:30 Identity After Success
53:00 Final Reflections

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716

Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584

Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/

Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/

Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast

Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/

Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/

Pierre Spies and Daniel Ornellas come from completely different worlds — elite rugby and global music — but this conversation reveals how similar the pressure of identity, purpose, loss, and reinvention really is.
Pierre opens up about losing his father before his Springbok breakthrough, the emotional reality of retiring from rugby, and why fame can never become your identity. Daniel shares the story behind Tree63, moving to America, touring with Taylor Swift and Camila Cabello, and why living abroad made him feel even more South African.
This episode is for founders, athletes, creatives, and anyone wrestling with reinvention after success.
Key Takeaways
Why success often exposes identity problems instead of solving them
The hidden emotional cost of elite performance
How grief shaped both Pierre and Daniel’s leadership journeys
Why moving overseas can deepen your connection to home
The danger of tying your identity to your profession
How purpose becomes clearer after public success fades

Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:20 Living in Nashville and George
03:10 Favorite Springbok memories
06:55 Pierre’s nightmare Springbok debut
07:30 Losing fathers before career breakthroughs
10:00 The decision that changed Pierre’s life
11:35 Daniel’s father, rock music and radical faith
14:45 Growing up with no money and total faith
15:40 Why Daniel never wanted to be on stage
17:25 Becoming more like your parents
18:40 What death teaches you about life
20:00 Leaving South Africa for America
21:20 The problem with fear-driven emigration
23:00 Why South Africa still feels like home
26:45 Life after rugby and identity loss
28:15 From rugby career to calling
30:30 The hidden challenge of retirement
31:20 Why identity cannot come from achievement

Listen on Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/26fB2unP9Ih6IA3QkjnGQF?si=4b4380f24a144716
Listen on Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/winning-the-away-game/id1853818584
Connect with Justinus:https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinusadriaanse/
Connect with Flip:https://www.linkedin.com/in/flipvandermerwe/
Check out our other channels:
Website: https://wtagpodcast.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/winning-the-away-game-podcast/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wtag_podcast/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wtag_podcast
Winning The Away Game is produced by Jonathan Warncke
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/%F0%9F%8E%99-jonathan-warncke-45b2095/
Ping Productions: https://www.pingproductions.net/