Wit, Wisdom, & What Matters Most

Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most Episode 13 Debunking social media myths Investment advisory services offered by Moneta Group Investment Advisors, LLC, an investment adviser registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Registration does not imply a certain level of skill or training. The information discussed in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. You should consult with an appropriately credentialed professional before making any financial, investment, tax, or legal decision. Kyle: And welcome to this edition of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. It's a podcast by Moneta's Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team. My name is Kyle Luetters, an advisor on the team, and I am joined by Danton Troyer, one of the partners. So ,Danton, no guest on this episode, but actually when we've been prepping for what is now season two, that's hard to believe, we were talking about some of the shows that we wanted to do and some of the guests that we wanted to have. And this show really kind of came up as an idea from something we were talking about in passing, which is just financial myths or financial topics that come up on social media, and really wanting to dive into some of these things. Because, as you very well know, in this industry, it is very, very difficult to paint with a broad brush and to paint in absolutes. Danton: Yeah, I think that's, you hit the nail on the head there. I mean, and social media is obviously not a great place for these types of conversations because they're very nuanced and very individual. But nonetheless, I can't tell you how many times a year I get financial advice forwarded from an Instagram clip or some sort of social media presence, and it's a guru who can solve all your problems just through social media posts. So it's definitely a topic that's worth exploring. Kyle: I can debunk one without much talking, it's somehow, someway, somebody pays taxes. It's like watching the movie National Treasure, where the Harvey Keitel character comes in and he goes, Ben, somebody's got to go to jail. So we can just debunk that one right off the word go. But you know, there are different things, different mitigation strategies, but really let's do this. Let's kind of have you set this up, and we've picked out a couple of them that we're going to kind of talk through. And we're going to go banter back and forth on these. But before we get started, do you have anything else that you wanted to add before we kind of jump into that first myth? Danton: No, let's jump right in. Kyle: Okay, go ahead for it. Danton: All right. So the first one we're going to talk about is a strategy called infinite banking. And just broad picture, we'll dive into more of the details as we talk through this, but it's using a life insurance policy with a cash value, typically. We see this with a whole life policy. And so the thought here is, why do I need a bank when I can use this as my savings account and just borrow money from the cash value or the insurance company, paying myself interest? Everything sounds great. I don't have to pay the bank any interest, I'm paying myself, that sounds reasonable. I'm using the money that I put in and so everything, you know, kind of checks a box that is this easy solution to bank yourself and who needs the big bad banks? Kyle: I think, and I hear what you're saying there, what's the oldest profession in the world? Sales and persuasion. And I think that's key in taking a look at a lot of these. So let's take this one and go through it just a bit. So you're going to have a permanent life insurance policy that is going to build cash value. So permanent life insurance policy, as long as the premiums are paid, stays in force over the course of your entire lifetime. And different from term insurance, whole life insurance builds cash value. Now that's what you are, in a sense, borrowing against or paying yourself on is the cash value in that policy. First and foremost, whole life insurance is a whole lot more expensive. I think that's where they get the name - whole is a whole lot more expensive than term insurance. And rightfully so, you are building a cash value. They are doing a calculation based on you keeping this coverage in place over the course of your entire lifetime. But you're paying somewhere between 15 to 20 times the cost for that permanent life insurance policy. So I think if you're going to make this case for having this bank of your own, you have to factor in the cost of insurance, because that's a very big key in all of this. And that's where some of the higher costs do come from. Now there are a ton, and I mean a ton of different types of policies out there, the way the policies are structured. And be very clear when I say this, I do believe there is a case for these types of products in certain scenarios. And again, each individual scenario is individualized. But by and large, these things are expensive policies. They kind of fit a narrow gap for folks. And the costs are just astronomically high between, the cost of insurance, the cost of riders that are honestly associated with them, and they have a slower growth rate than what you would at other normal investments. So you know, in a lot of cases I've seen in-force illustrations where permanent policies don't really go cash flow positive until about year 14 or 15. Danton: I think that's exactly a couple of the main points that are maybe intentionally left out of that sales pitch is a lot of people see this as kind of a silver bullet that can work right away. And as you said, this is very narrow on when it actually can work partially, I mean, that's part of the issue. And then you do have the higher costs associated with just insurance in general, which it makes sense you're paying for that death benefit. So for it to work, there's got to be a lot of things that line up perfectly for you. But I think the other caveat is too, those things have to be lined up for a long period of time. This is not something that just you snap your fingers and you're taking loans to pay for your kids' college the next year. It's not the way it works. Kyle: You have to have built up enough cash value in the policy in order to loan against it. And typically, in the first few years, cash value growth is very slow unless you structure it in a certain way. And again, these are very complex products, and I do say that word products, Danton, emphatically, they are complex products. And it may take a while before the cash values get to a point where they could really be a good source of lending. That's why if you're older and you're listening to this and you do have a policy that's been around for 20 or 30 years and has accumulated a lot of cash value, this might make sense. But think about that a second. It's going to take 20 to 30 years for you to, quote unquote, build your bank. Why not go ahead and just borrow from a regular institution? Because there is another thing, because I know something I will get from other folks is, well, they'll say, well, you know, you could front load a whole life policy. As Lee Corso, said, not so fast, my friend. There is something called the Modified Endowment Contract. And if you stuff too much money into the policy from the word go and then think you can borrow against it, you might actually turn this thing into a taxable time bomb that is going to strip away a lot of the tax-deferred or tax-free benefits of a life insurance policy. And again, you have to ask yourself in these deals, in any one of these types of social media financial topics, who benefits the most? Who benefits the most from doing this? And insurance products, like the whole life policies, have very high commission rates. Now, again, I'm not necessarily saying that that is the case for everybody, but it's another question to ask as you're taking a look at potentially employing the strategy. Danton: Yeah. And it's going through, as you said, just the full picture of it. And then the other side is, what's the opportunity cost out there? This isn't the only strategy or way of running your personal finances. So I think that's part of it too, is there's definitely an opportunity cost by doing it in a specific way. And it's just not flexible is the other part with this. I mean, once you're in, you're kind of in, so if your life changes, if the world changes, it's pretty difficult to unravel as versus a bank. I mean, yeah, you may or may not need to pay off that loan right away, but that's the same thing with this life insurance policy. Plus, you're potentially going to get hit with a big tax bill too, if you don't do it appropriately. So you could get hit maybe twice as hard on the backside if you're not doing it the right way. Kyle: You know, one thing in working with a lot of families that I do see on these policies, and then that this was a personal story from someone that I knew very closely, is that when you're young, cashflow is still a major concern you're trying to build. You need life insurance coverage, but if someone comes along and says, hey, you know, do this permanent policy, it's 15 to 20 times more expensive than a term policy, and you get into a tight spell where you're trying to pay the mortgage, pay groceries, keep shoes on the kids, so to speak, you probably are sitting there going, you know what, this month it's down between the life insurance premium and Hamburger Helper. And I can guarantee you which one falls by the wayside. Danton: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's tough because when you need the most life insurance, you're probably younger and you'll have less assets to make up that gap. And so something like this might sound appealing, especially before you have kids and maybe your cashflow is feeling pretty good for that short period of time before you to have a couple kids, and that'll take that away....

Wit, Wisdom, & What Matters Most podcast Episode 12 featuring Peter Biondo Kyle: And welcome to another edition of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. It's a podcast with Moneta's Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team. My name is Kyle Luetters. I'm joined by Danton Troyer. And Danton, a bit of a blast from the past for me on today's episode; someone that I used to get to work very closely with: a gentleman by the name of Peter Biondo. And Peter is a champion drag racer, family man, and wildly successful event promoter. And this conversation kind of went all over the place, like we talk about nicknames, we talk about economics, all sorts of stuff. It was fascinating. Danton: Yeah, I have no background in racing. So for me, it was just, you know, it's good to hear that side of things and just learn about a new area that I had no idea about. Kyle: So like I said, we'll cover how he got started in racing, the family background, his racing career, what has meant the most to him. And then the genesis of how one event back in 2010 has now led to arguably one of the most, if not THE most successful brand of bracket races out there. So without further ado, here's our conversation with Peter Biondo. And welcome to Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most, Peter Biondo. Peter, joining us from New York. How are you doing today, my friend? Peter: Doing good, doing good. Definitely can't complain. Kyle: Well, obviously not. It looks like it's a sunny day there, at least from what we can see, and we were catching up before we got started here - a lot of positives going on in life. But you and I have known each other for quite some time. We've worked together for a good chunk of that time. And then we were in a small group together and really did life together for a while. And I've always found your story, both in life and racing and business, to be very fascinating. So I wanted to see if you would kind of start at the beginning and talk about how you and your family got involved in drag racing and then kind of the genesis forward as you've now become a successful racer, a successful entrepreneur. And anyone nicknamed the Terminator has to be tops in what they do. Peter: Well, I appreciate that. So, yeah, guys, my father…I was born into it. My father in the late '60s was in a street gang, not really a gang, but street racers. And after the cops got them off the street in the early to mid-'70s, which I was born in the early '70s, my father started going to the racetrack and my mother passed away when I was born, so my father had a three year old, a two year old and a newborn. So we were forced to spend time together and that time was at the racetrack. Kyle: And then your dad, there's a real interesting story, too, I think, about the family station wagon, too. Talk about how dad got started with the racing and how Biondo Racing Products really got going too. Peter: Yeah, so that that's interesting you said that because the station wagon. And so basically, we grew up at the racetrack. Like I said, as a toddler, I had no choice. But as we grew up and got into our early teen years, my father gave us a choice and we played sports and did some other stuff, but we always gravitated to the track - we loved it - to the sport of drag racing. And so the way the business started, we would race the family station wagon. We would literally tow - the family station wagon would tow the race car on an open trailer. We would get there. Of course, the station wagon was 200 degrees by the time we got there, we'd unhook the trailer, and my brother or I would go race it when we were of age. First, my brother; my father would unload the race car, and that was our weekends. Now, to beyond the racing products part of it, my father, I didn't really know what he was doing. He was very, I mean, we spent a lot of time together, but he didn't tell me that much about business when I was 13 years old. But all of a sudden he writes "Practice trees for sale," on the side of the station wagon. And I'm racing. And he goes, yeah, if anyone asks you, just tell them we have practice trees for sale $299. And he really was the pioneer of that. And a practice tree, for those who don't know, are basically the starting line simulation of a drag race and which is very important to master. So we started selling them. His best friend was making them out of his bedroom and we started going to UPS from my one car garage, which I live in that house now, and as a team, my brother, as we were in our teen years we just stayed as a group, stayed together and worked together. And that's how the business started. Kyle: So your genesis to there's the family business you started talking about racing with your brother. How did your racing career progress from those days going with the family in the station wagon to really being like a multi-time NHRA (National Hot Rod Association) champion, getting the nickname that we referred earlier, and really being known as one of the IT guys for a long period in NHRA racing? Peter: Yes, so you know, I was very passionate about it. And whenever you're passionate about something, whenever I'm passionate about something, I tend to go all in, and I practiced a lot. I'd say right around the early 1990s, I was dominating locally. And I told my father, I said, "Dad, I want to try. I want to travel nationally and see how I can do." And right around the mid-'90s is when I made my mark in NHRA. Danton: It's kind of impressive. There's one thing that's to me is that, I think about my kids and I like to golf and do some things. And they seem to…anything I say that they should do like golf or other activities, they run away from. But seems like it had the opposite effect for you. So I was just curious how your dad was able to still keep racing, make it fun for you, even though it was maybe something you quote unquote, "had to do." Peter: That's a great question. And my father was very careful in not forcing us to do it and leaving the road wide open. And he told us that over and over. I mean, I started playing hockey. I started playing some sports. But as he just kept saying, "You want to come next weekend?" And I would just say, Yes, yes, yes." So it was totally my option. You're right, though, you've got to be careful as a parent myself, as we all are with young children, when they're in their early teenage years you don't want to hold them captive to one thing and you want to let them grow. And I just gravitated towards it, man. I'm a competitor. I love the competition aspect of it. I love the fact that it's not all about speed, although speed is definitely an adrenaline rush. But it's also about a lot of logic. It's a lot of figuring out the weather and how it's going to affect your car, and putting all the pieces together. Whoever can do that the best and then execute on the racetrack. That's what really drew me to it – it's very challenging. Kyle: Peter, you mentioned something that was pretty interesting there. All the elements that go in there. You meet folks that are not necessarily in the racing industry or they're not necessarily familiar as much with drag racing. How do you describe it to them all the work that goes into things? Like what if someone comes up to you and says, "Well, you guys are just going down a straight line when the light turns green." How do you describe all the intricacies that go into it in a short, compact way? Peter: The best way to describe it is just like I just did. It's basically there's a lot of elements, factors that come into play, and you have to mix them all together. And the big thing is, like anything else in life, you have to know what to listen to and what to put your effort toward and what not to. And what not to is more important because you could easily go down the trick-of-the-week avenue and you're wasting time and you're wasting your mental energy. So, yeah, I mean, I will say this…a good friend of mine who grew up in the neighborhood asked me to teach him how to race about 15 years ago. He was getting back into it; he never really raced on a high level. And I sat with him and I explained everything over a whole eight-hour period. But then we went to the track and I drove his car at a national event. And after the weekend, he said, "I cannot believe, like I would have never guessed all this goes into that." So to answer your question, guys, you'd have to kind of be on my arm for a weekend to really know everything that goes into it. Danton: Yeah, you already explained more than I would have ever known that goes into the car. I mean, I certainly knew it was more than meets the eye, but just the extra steps that go into it. I think most of us watching who don't know anything about it think it's push the pedal and go. But obviously it's a lot more. Kyle: Peter, as you look back on your driving career, there's obviously got to be a lot of highlights. Is there like a couple, two or three, that really just stand out to you? Big wins or weekends that really stand out that you're awfully proud of from a driving aspect? Peter: Yeah, I would say the two that stand out the most was in the mid '90s, I went to the U.S. Nationals for my first time. And that's the granddaddy - that's like the Daytona 500 or the PGA Tour. I don't know, everyone can relate to golf, so Danton, what's the biggest golf tournament? Danton: I mean, you might have the Open, it's coming up pretty soon, it's pretty big. Peter: Yeah. So, it's in Indianapolis, so it's like West Coast and East Coast. All the talk during the year. Who's the best? Who's who meets at this granddaddy race. And I won it in 1993 as a 21-year-old, a 22-year-old. And my father was there, and it was my first national - that win at that race. And him being there and there's a picture of him on the starting line, like with tears you could see in his eyes....

Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most Podcast episode 10 Kyle: Welcome to another edition of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. It's a podcast with Moneta's Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team. My name is Kyle Luetters. I'm joined by Danton Troyer. Danton, coming off of a holiday weekend where the fireworks weren't the hottest thing maybe that was going on throughout the weekend. The One Big Beautiful Bill signed into law on Independence Day itself. For a juxtaposition of numbers, America celebrating 249 years of independence with a bill that's 1,116 pages long. Danton: It'll be interesting. We get a lot of questions over what's going to be in the bill and a lot of news. And so now we know. Sort of. Kyle: It's sort of. To that point, that's why we emphasize the 1,116 pages to it. What we really wanted to do here with this edition of the podcast, though, was really look at this bill, you know, obviously the political situation in Washington is very distinct, but really taking a look at this solely through the eyes of two CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNERS.® What are some of the opportunities? What are some of the key provisions of this tax bill that will affect a lot of different people? Because there are individual tax provisions. There's changes to the estate tax as well as certain things for business owners to be aware of and to keep their eyes on as well, too. So we're not going to cover it all. There's no possible way. And obviously to check in with CPAs and other tax professionals as well, too, before making any final moves. But we wanted to go through some of the things that as we read through this bill and summaries of this bill, some of the things that just kind of jumped out to us as unique kind of planning opportunities. Danton: Yeah, and also discuss what were some of the things that made it into the bill and what were some of the things that got cut last minute and how that might have affected some of the folks that maybe didn't get everything they wanted to or at least the devil being in the details. Kyle: A hundred percent. And Danton, one of the things that I thought was the most unique about this bill versus the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 was there,and it has to do with when the bill is passed. I remember Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was passed right at the end of the year. A lot of CPAs and tax professionals were literally pulling their hair out as the final bill gets passed in December and goes into effect January 1st. This bill passed more at the midpoint of the year. So there's some provisions that affect 2025 and we'll get into those. And then there's also some that don't start until 2026. But I think one of the biggest things for us to talk about here real quick is the impetus for this bill. Or one of the big ones was that the TCJA, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, like we referred to, was scheduled to sunset at the end of 2025, so that's really what kind of kick started a lot this legislative process. Danton: Yeah, so what do you see as the things that are going to be continuing and what's getting cut from there? Kyle: There was a lot in this bill that really codified the changes that were temporary and made them permanent. One of the biggest things is keeping the rate and brackets that we currently have in making them permanent and adjusting them for inflation every year. So, it is definitely more solid footing, if you will, on tax strategy as we're having conversations about things like Roth conversions, charitable giving, knowing where people are going to end up in the tax brackets. We were honestly having quite a few conversations and modeling sessions with folks had the election gone the other way at the end of 2024. Fortunately or unfortunately, we wadded up a lot of those and threw them in the waste paper basket. But now we know at least for a while, because we never know what politically will happen, but we at least know for the foreseeable future what brackets we are dealing with. And a couple of other things that made this permanent, the standard deduction, that was a big leap back in 2017. And it increased a little bit for 2025. It will be indexed for inflation, but we've made that increased standard deduction permanent. Personal exemptions, which used to be a big thing in the tax code, are still removed. And another thing that was kind of codified in this was an Expanded Child Tax Credit. Now the House bill originally was $2,500 per kid. The Senate's decided on $2,200, starting next year is kind of the final lay of the land. But you got to remember, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act basically doubled that. And we saw a much higher one during the pandemic as well, too. And that was also, too, when we got into the situation where they kind of doled out that child tax credit early via direct deposit under the Biden administration. So those are a couple of things there. And we're going to kind of hop around here a little bit, but some other provisions that are permanent through this, and I think this is a huge one, especially with some of the families that we end up working with quite a bit, is the permanent increase of the estate and lifetime gift tax exemption to an inflation indexed amount of $15 million for single filers and $30 million for joint filers beginning in 2026. So in 2025, it's about $13.99 million, so a healthy jump into 2026, and then increased for inflation after that, which is a very big planning opportunity. Danton: Yeah, it seems like, at least as it relates to the 2017 tax cuts, we kept a lot of the major pieces in place. I mean, there's some nuance there, but it's just nice to have kind of at least some clarity on how long this is going to go for and be able to do a little bit more than a year at a time planning, it feels like a lot of these times. Kyle: I don't know if you felt this way, but as a planner, I kind of thought that we were kind of playing with one hand tied behind our back with a sunset. And it was always kind of this weird thing when you were sitting down with someone and saying, hey, now that we know what this is, this is probably 2018, we know that it's going to sunset at the end of 2025 unless Congress acts, but you may not be ready to do something. And so it was kind of a non-conversation. And now that changes a little bit to say, hey, unless there is another major bill, major piece of sweeping legislation, these are the rules. And so we have a much longer runway. A couple of other things here on the business side of things, 100% bonus depreciation for short-lived investments, very key for business owners. And then permanently reinstating the EBITDA-based limitation on business net interest deductions is a huge one that comes into play here. There's some international tax provisions. I don't want everyone to go to sleep that's listening to this. We won't dive into those. Danton: Talk about the taxes and how that will be addressed as it relates to Social Security, because I think that's a lot of people's maybe concern and on their mind is, is it going away? But the taxes, it doesn't really affect that so much, but it may affect their bottom line and how much they're receiving. Kyle: Very good question because on the campaign trail, we heard a campaign pledge of no taxes on Social Security. We also heard no taxes on tips and overtime, which by the way, did make it into the final bill, there are some pretty low caps on that. But as far as Social Security goes, that was not addressed specifically in the bill. However, I think the compromise though was added with a temporary senior deduction of $6,000 for each qualifying individual for both itemizers and non-itemizers that phases out when modified adjusted gross income exceeds $75,000. Now that's temporary; it's available from 2025 through 2028. And I think as we always talk about in Washington, D.C., you never want to see how the sausage is made. That was one of the compromises to providing some relief in that arena without necessarily completely saying Social Security is not taxed. A number of the states have it on their ballots to take a look at that. I know Missouri is looking at it; that's where we are. But I thought that was kind of like a unique compromise, if you will. Another thing that I thought was very contentious, and I'll have you chime in on here, was the SALT tax deduction cap. In the old bill, it was $10,000. And the Senate initially said, we're not raising it from $10,000. The House bill passed at $40,000. There was a lot of handling behind closed doors, but eventually they did increase it to $40,000, and that cap will go up by 1 percent through 2029. And it is subject to a phase-out with taxpayers with incomes above $500,000. Danton: Yeah, it seems like this is another political football back and forth where the Democrats want to benefit their potentially higher-income state taxes. So, it's nice to see that there is a deduction that is increased. So anytime from our perspective, we're legally able to pay less in taxes, it's probably a good thing. So, it's nice to see. It would be nice to have maybe a little bit longer timeframe as far as clarity goes, but it's better than nothing. Kyle: Well, and another thing to point out, too, is that above that $500,000 income, there's a cap to the flat $10,000 thereafter. So, I mean, it's not like a use it or a lose it type of a deal, so, but there is some kind of parameters around it. Another thing that I thought was very interesting was charitable giving was addressed in this bill in two ways. One, it creates a half a percent floor on itemized deductions for charitable contributions. So you need to be aware of that as you're giving things away. But then also, too, and this is a unique planning opportunity for the vast majority of people that take the standard deduction, is there is now a permanent $1,000 above the line deduction for charitable contributions if y

Wit, Wisdom, & What Matters Most podcast Episode 11 featuring Scott Stork Kyle: Welcome to another edition of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. It's a podcast with Moneta's Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team. My name is Kyle Luetters; I am joined by Danton Troyer. And, Danton, on this episode, someone that we've gotten to know here as of late, we've been able to work together a bit, is Scott Stork, an estate planning attorney with Polaris Law Group here in the St. Louis area. And I thought a really interesting conversation with a key moment that folks will hear about, about how he decided to truly pursue estate planning. Danton: Yeah, it's one of the most chilling and maybe motivating "whys" out there, especially for a career and kind of getting that going as well. And then talking about how you balance that with family and just the day-to-day that is life. So, a great, great interview with Scott and just talking about how he's been able to achieve his success. Kyle: And here's our conversation with Scott Stork. And welcoming to Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most, it is Mr. Scott Stork. Scott, welcome to the podcast today. Scott: Thank you very much. I appreciate being here. Kyle: This has been a long time coming. We met each other here a while back, had a wonderful cup of coffee at Picasso's, talking shop. And then, kind of throughout our journeys together, we got to learn more about one another's businesses and our practices. So, you know, for everyone that is taking the time to listen to this, kind of describe your background, like where you came from, how did you get into estate planning, and how did basically, how did we get here? Scott: Okay, yeah, absolutely. So, I've been a lawyer for longer than I care to admit. So, since 2002, which I think makes me very officially middle-aged. So, I actually didn't start out my career doing this. I never had any idea I would be doing this. I spent the first half of my legal career as a prosecuting attorney between Virginia and here in Missouri, and did that for quite a long time and did a lot of trial work and litigation and things like that. And when I went into private practice, I had anticipated I was going to stay doing litigation and trials and all of the things that I really liked to do. But through kind of a confluence of events, I started to do, to dabble, I would say, in estate planning, which a lot of people in private general practice do. And I had a friend that got very sick. He was 35, so he was certainly not old. He got cancer. And kind of a long story short, we ended up signing some of his estate planning documents the day he passed away in the hospital. And that had an enormous effect on my complete outlook on everything. I realized that nothing that I had done up to that point with him made any difference as far as his family's future or anything like that. And so I made the decision basically right there that I wanted to focus on estate planning and not do litigation anymore. And that was pretty much the change in my practice and I've been doing estate planning as the only thing that I that I do ever since. Kyle: Yeah, that's incredible that you have that story. And for a lot of people that get into business, especially entrepreneurs, there's like a seminal moment that you really, that like a switch flips. And you may not become an entrepreneur right at that point, but there's usually something, an event you can tie back to that really kind of flips that switch into getting you on the path that you're on now. Scott: Yeah, absolutely. And it really was the kind of the moment where, again, my worldview changed. I also realized I didn't know enough to really do good estate planning for clients. And so it caused me to join some organizations where I basically got a post-secondary, so to speak, education in estate planning. And it's really changed the way that my partner and I practice and that our law firm practices. So yeah, that was kind of the, that's my background and that's my why of what I do. Danton: Yeah. So with that, that's a pretty big transition. And I know you have a family. How are they affected or how are they able to support you through that? Scott: Yeah, so it's actually, I didn't have kids when I started this. Danton: Makes it easier. Scott: Yeah, right. So like, hey, I can make a, make a shift and not a big deal. I think it's actually made a very positive transition. So when you're doing litigation and, and lawyers who do litigation and you're off to different courtrooms and in different municipalities or, you know, St. Charles or St. Louis County or the city or wherever you're at…it tends to just kind of be hair on fire, even though I don't have any. Kyle: That's where it went! Scott: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. So when you do that, it's really difficult to do a lot of the work-life balance. One of the things that being kind of full-time in estate planning and having a more steady clientele and a cadence to how we plan with people has actually been to make it easier to really have that work-life balance. And that was something that was really important to my partner, Ray, and I because we both have young kids now and families, is how can we make sure that not only we have work life balance, but everybody that we work with has the same. So it's really informed and shaped how we have developed our law firm. Kyle: You, you mentioned Ray and I want you to - we've been talking about you - now talk about Polaris as a firm, so describe, you've mentioned Ray…give us the lay of the land of the firm. I know you guys are growing. We were able to go to you guys' open house late last year, which was a wonderful thing. it's a beautiful facility. But tell us a little bit about the firm as it sits today and maybe a little bit where it started. Cause those are always a good story. Scott: Yeah, it started with me. 2013 it was basically me striking out on my own in about a 1,500 square feet office in St. Charles County. And it was kind of just trying to start getting clients. Right. And it's grown steadily over the years. So my partner and I both were in the St. Charles County prosecutor's office back in the mid two thousands, and we'd been friends for a long time. I started my estate planning firm and for the first four years or so it was me and an assistant. And then Ray and I complement each other very well, as hopefully lots of teams do. He's strong in areas that I'm weak in and vice versa. And so we joined up in 2017 after about a year of talking about whether or not it would make sense, and started Polaris in St. Charles off of I-70. And we have grown our practice over the years and brought on staff and things like that. Our practice is a little bit different than a lot of estate planning firms. We aren't kind of a transactional type of firm. So we have ongoing relationships just like you all do with, with clients where we keep their plans up-to-date and make sure that they still work. And so that's for us, we have about 350 ongoing clients on that program. And it also caused us at the beginning of this year, as you talked about, to open a second location in Creve Coeur so that we can increase the amount of people that we're able to help, and it's increased the amount of staff that we've got. So we've got about 10 people currently in our firm plus the two of us, so over the two locations, that's kind of our setup right now. Kyle: Very neat. Danton: Yeah. What would you say, I mean 2013 wasn't that long ago, and going from a one-man-show to 10 people to two locations…what would you say is the biggest driver of being able to do that? Scott: Um, the biggest driver…So most law firms aren't run like the businesses that they are. And so, lawyers tend to, we aren't trained - just like most other people - on how to run a business. I joined a coaching program a couple of years ago, three years ago now, we joined and that's been really instrumental in finding weak spots within the firm. You know, one of the reasons that we have so many staff is because we have so many different things we're helping clients with along their estate planning journey and after they're done. And so it's putting the right people in place to do that because when you get a lot of firms where it's just the lawyers who are doing the work, so to speak, you know, lawyers aren't good at managing time a lot of times. And so, Kyle: Really? Scott: Yeah, right? That there, there's your nugget for today. Danton: We didn't say it; wasn't us. Scott: Nope; nope. Kyle: And I just was inspired to dig deeper… Scott: Yeah, and so, you have lawyers who for whatever reason are in court or out of town or whatever, if they're the only ones with their fingers on a certain case, it's going to be weeks sometimes before they get back with clients. And we don't want that. That's not how we want the client experience to be. And it's really kind of driven a lot of our growth, by having so many loyal, ongoing clients. And I think we're able to give them a good product and a great experience -and we do that on an ongoing basis. And, and so between word of mouth and everything else, that's kind of allowed us to grow the way we have. Kyle: Sure. You mentioned when we were kind of chatting before this whole thing kicked off, like, you know, getting your marketing, it was, it was going, and then there were some changes, and then now you're getting going back again. It feels like in marketing, especially in small businesses, in professional services, it is so much about the day-to-day blocking and tackling and showing up. Scott: Absolutely. Kyle: Can you guys describe some of the ways that you all market to get the word out about your business in your chosen industry? Scott: Yeah, it can be difficult, as you all know, because what you really have to do is - people don't like to talk

Wit, Wisdom, & What Matters Most podcast Episode 9 featuring Tim Hobart Kyle: The views expressed in this podcast are solely those of the hosts/guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Moneta. Kyle: Welcome to another episode of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most, a podcast with Moneta's Gast Freeman Troyer Racen team. My name is Kyle Luetters, joined by Danton Troyer. And Danton, very excited for today's guest, someone that you and your partner Travis Freeman have known for quite a while. It's Tim Hobart with H&H Health Associates. You want to tell us a bit about Tim? Danton: Yeah, gosh I can't remember when I first met Tim, but it had to have been at least 14 years ago. And I met him through Travis Freeman, our partner here. Tim has an employer assistance program. And so a lot of folks think about counseling services and he talks a little bit about flu shots, and there's certainly the typical employer assistance program. But also, he brought us in as a financial resource. And so, that's been our relationship for over the years. And now it's interesting to see, he's, you know, gotten older. We've all gotten older and transitioning to his kids, potentially, some of the duties. It's been a long time knowing Tim and he certainly helped me with my career and hopefully we provided some value for him as well. It's just great to see him doing so well. Kyle: Yeah, and so in this interview coming up, you guys are gonna hear about Tim, his business, how the business got started, whom he started a business with. And then probably the most interesting and unique thing to come out of the conversation was a class that Tim found after he went on a journey himself. And then it'll kind of wrap up with how he has transitioned his business and how he has started to embrace more of what he's going to do in retirement. So, it's a great conversation and with that being said, here's our conversation with Tim Hobart. And now joined by Tim Hobart. And Tim, you know, number one, thank you for coming here to visit with us today from HH Health Associates. Tim, if you could just describe what it is that you do. It's a fascinating service. Tim: Well, thanks to all of you for letting me crash your podcast today. It's good to be here. H&H Health Associates is a family-owned business. My wife and I started it about 39 years ago now. Donna, being a nurse by background, would go into companies and do such things as flu shots, OSHA reg screenings, blood work, and anything on the physical side of the ledger. Myself, having a background for almost 40 years in employee assistance services, counseling primarily, we decided to see if we could keep the marriage together and grow a company at the same time 38 years ago and decided let's give it a whirl. And the good news is the marriage has thrived and so has the business. So, employee assistance and on-site wellness to corporate America is what we've been doing for these many, many years. That's in a nutshell what we've been up to. Kyle: That's a very interesting thing when you talk about it and describe, if you will, what is your typical work week like because there's got to be some planning elements to this, there's got to be some on-site elements to it. Kind of walk us through what like a typical work week would be for you. Tim: So on balance, a typical work week for our nurses and for our counselors are, obviously counselors will be seeing employees of the companies we contract with for the issues that they're bringing to the table, whether it be family issues, kid issues, stress issues, trying to balance work and home issues. Nothing that you guys would be relatable to… Danton: Not at all (laughs) Tim: …but nonetheless the counselors are busy with helping folks get things back on track in their personal lives, their being the employees and family members. The nurses, lots of time spent on-site doing blood work, flu shots in the fall for example. Kyle: Okay. Tim: My typical work week has changed over the past five years because I've cut back from being the full-time CEO. And but it would be a lot around customer service, on-site presentations, management trainings, consulting with HRs on issues that come up in their world. Danton: So as you said, you started this business with your wife; how did you guys come to that conclusion to start a business together? I mean, I can't imagine starting a business with my wife. Tim: I can't either. And so you know that's what we jokingly say, can the marriage last? Because we're two different management styles, but we did talk about it long and thoroughly, and the good news is that we thought we were in both careers and our own work worlds, mine being employee assistance on the mental health side of the ledger and Donna being in the physical, the nursing side of the ledger, the physical - that these two had components and synergies that were helpful to companies. And so that's how we came to the decision. Danton: So what were you guys doing career-wise prior to starting H&H? Tim: My background's in sales and marketing, and I never wanted to be a counselor or a nurse. Danton: That's usually the case. The follow-up question is what did you want to be when you grew up? So how did you get the... Tim: Well since I wasn't gonna be a major league baseball player I guess, you know, I had not the skills. But in any event, I always liked marketing and sales, and management for that matter. You know I see what I do and what we do, is we're at the intersection of an owner, a CEO, a company's interest in the people that come in the door, employees, are okay. They're okay here and they're okay here. Well, what in the world could ever get in the way of that other than life? And so that cross street is labeled "issues," whether they be physical or mental health. And then how can we, the competitive side of enterprise, I love the marketing, sales, and management…the human side of our enterprise being, quite frankly, is helping people get things back on track regardless of where they are. Kyle: I'd like to ask this question. You've had a long and successful career. How have you seen the services and the issues evolve and change from when you and your wife started this business to where you all are today and what you're seeing today in the workplace? Tim: Well in one word, technology. And another word is COVID. That changed the game worldwide for how we go to work or don't go to work and work at home. And just the rethinking of everything transactional. A lot for the good, quite frankly. So for the most part of our careers, very hands-on and on-site. So if you think about it, an employee that is dealing with an issue and they want to get some help from a counselor, primarily before COVID, would pick up a phone, call our office and say, hey I got an issue with my teenager and I want to talk to a counselor. Fine. What office would you like to go to and what day do you want to come? So okay, thank you very much. Next Tuesday 7 p.m. at this office. I get in my car, I go there, I see a therapist, I make another appointment for the following week; do that for a number of sessions. Kyle: Okay. Tim: Post-COVID, well with technology and virtual links, employees can get services in their own home, in their own place, in their own space, at their own time, whenever, 24/7. So that really is a godsend for people who were locked up and we all know that now that virtual health care is becoming more of the standard. I would say about 80% of 90% of all of the people that we helped were in person, face-to-face prior to COVID. Post COVID, it's been flipped. Although we do find employees do appreciate a personal relationship, a one-on-one face-to-face. There's something about even in offices that have been virtual, people, we have found a number of people, have missed that connection, that community building, if you will. That gee whiz, I haven't seen Travis in six months and when I get in and I see Danton and there is something to be said about community building. And so now we're seeing much, much more of a hybrid. Kyle: Okay. You know, Tim, it's interesting that you mention that. Of course, Travis Freeman, Danton, one of your partners on the team, you all go way back, but speaking of our business, we have a lot of clients now that will request specifically virtual options. And then if they've been virtual for a little while and they come back in, I don't know about you, but the tone and the feel of the meeting is just completely different. Not necessarily wrong that it's virtual, but it's just a different tone. It's a different feel when we have clients that are typically virtual actually come into the office. Danton: Yeah, you definitely miss a little bit of that relationship building. As you said, that chit-chat before the meeting starts on Zoom or, you know, whatever you use, it's basically right to business. Which is great for a review meeting with the client, but you certainly miss out on just the chit-chat and catching up with kids. It's just not as robust. Tim: Exactly. Kyle: And I want to touch on something, Tim, that you had mentioned - that you have slowed down a little bit. You're no longer full-time CEO. Kind of walk us through what your glide path here is. Because it seems to me like there's a change coming or you're in process of a change. What does that look like? Tim: So, I really haven't slowed down, but I have made major adjustments. And then, like all of us, I mean, there's gonna be a time where you're gonna think, gee whiz, what's my next chapter gonna look like after I work? Retire? And the synonym for retirement is unemployment. Kyle: That's one of the best ways I've heard… Tim: Most of us haven't been unemployed since we were teenagers probably. Kyle: Certainly. Tim: But it did begin,...

Dr. Ellis is a current client and was not provided with any compensation for her participation in this podcast. Kyle: Welcome to Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. It's a podcast with Moneta's Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team. My name is Kyle Luetters, advisor on the team, and I am joined on this podcast by Danton Troyer, a partner on the team. Danton, a very energetic conversation today. We have Dr. Holly Ellis here of Ellis Dental and Ellis Sleep Center joining us on the show today. And I think what everybody's going to hear here is a lot of passion, a lot of energy, and the exact way that you can get onto a game show while being a dental student. Danton: There's definitely step-by-step instructions, so if anything else, you want to make some money on the Wheel of Fortune circuit, we can help you there. But yeah, it's great to get an interview with Holly in here, just how she kind of grew over the years in her business, and I'm sure people will be able to get a lot of takeaways from that. Kyle: For sure. Well, without further ado, here's our conversation with Dr. Holly Ellis. And now joining us here on Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most, perhaps one of the most lucky guests, and not just because she's a guest on the show, but because of some of the things I found out about her in doing some research. Joining us today, Dr. Holly Ellis of Ellis Dental and Ellis Sleep Center. And Holly, before I kind of dive in, I know you maybe froze a little bit when I said that, because I did my homework for this interview. But number one, how are you doing? And you're coming to us from your office, your dental practice, is that correct? Dr. Ellis: Yes. Yeah, I'm in my dental practice right now. It's a busy day, but I'm excited to be here on the podcast. Kyle: Hopefully it's more fun than filling cavities. You just have to let us know at the end. That will be for us as well. Dr. Ellis: Yes! Kyle: So Dr. Ellis is someone that Danton and I know, a successful entrepreneur, a wonderful smile if you go to ellisdental.com, you happen to notice everybody has a great smile, so it's wonderful marketing. But what I wanted to lead into here was, where did your love of Wheel of Fortune come from? Dr. Ellis: You know, that show's been on my entire life, Kyle. It's been around so long. So I think I just grew up with it in the background. And then as I got older, I realized I was good at it, you know, but it's kind of fun to play when you're good at something. Kyle: Right… Dr. Ellis: So it could be on, Wheel of Fortune's on in the background, so you could look at the TV and like, oh, solve a puzzle, then go back to making dinner type thing. But I love word games, stuff like that. And so yeah, I love that game. Kyle: And you were actually on the show. Dr. Ellis: I was on the show over 20 years ago, I think. But I had gone online when I was in dental school to look up how to get on there. And they had a form you could fill out for them to contact you if they came to your city for auditions. And at the time, I was in Kansas City. So, I filled out the form. And you know, maybe six months later, I got an email that said, you're invited to an audition at the Marriott, downtown Kansas City. So, I skipped class because it was during class. Kyle: The attitude of limitations is gone. Yes. Dr. Ellis: Yeah. I wore my dental school scrubs. You know, I wanted to play the whole poor student aspect, got down there, ended up running into one of my instructors who was also positioning for Wheel of Fortune, and we both had a good laugh over that. Yeah, I got down there, they had about 250 people, they gave us paper tests and things on paper we had to fill out - like hangman almost, and had like a info sheet to fill out. And then they narrowed it down to 50 from that. And you had to write some interesting things about yourself, stuff like that. And then we had to play some mock games. And then they told us if you're selected, you'll be on the show within the year and you'll get a letter. And sure enough, about three weeks later, I got a letter in the mail saying you're invited out to record and yeah, it was a lot of fun. It all just kind of worked out perfect. You know, all the stars aligned, I guess. Kyle: That they did. Oh my goodness, that's cool. And when you were on the show, what was, and we're going to get to the rest of the story here, but I really kind of want to hone in on this because I think this is really interesting. What was that experience on the show like? Dr. Ellis: Super fun. So they record six shows in a day, and I was the first show and they just kind of get you out there and you're in the recording studio meeting Pat and Vanna and you just start playing, just like it is on TV. They don't make you take a lot of breaks, just for commercials and, you know, I hit bankrupt a couple times, but I solved two puzzles. I won a prize and about $3,600 in the end, I came in second. So it was a ton of fun. Kyle: Not a bad haul for a dental student. Not a bad haul, right? Dr. Ellis: It was great. So fun! And when I went, my class at dental school wished me off well and gave me all kinds of goody bags to go. So it was fun. Yeah, I highly recommend it, Kyle. Danton: We have Kyle on the Wheel of Fortune next. Dr. Ellis: Yeah. Kyle: We'll have to make sure we give you a call. I don't think I can use a lifeline on that show. You know, so what I wanted to go into that story and you had kind of mentioned Kansas City, but native of St. Louis, went to Missouri State and then over to the University of Missouri, Kansas City for dental school. So, let Dan and I kind of dive in here just a little bit, but what made you, what would foster the interest in wanting to go into the dental field? Let's start there. Dr. Ellis: Well, I'm an odd bird; most dentists are. We have something about us that's a little off, but I knew I wanted to be a dentist since I was very young and I was fortunate enough to have dental care when I was young. My parents took us every six months. So what I witnessed in the office was my dentist walking around whistling, having so much fun. I knew he had his own practice. And I remember just telling my parents when I was young, you know, this looks fun. Like I think this would be great, right? And of course, my parents were like, yes, you should do that! They were very encouraging. And it's funny because I look back and I didn't even know that like dental hygiene was a career opportunity I could have gone. I just went right to, I want to be the dentist. And my parents were very encouraging. So they would point out, yeah, how great would that be? If you could own your own business, run your own practice, you could take care of people and you like to talk to people… And it really just was a good fit and I knew that. And as I got older, I knew I wanted to be the boss. And I think that's played out really well for me. But I knew my personality that I just wanted to lead something and have my own thing. And this was an opportunity and a career that I could actually do that. So I shadowed a lot of people in high school, college to make sure. But everybody I talked to was so kind and they all really enjoyed their job. So it just made sense to keep going down that track. Danton: So even from a young age, I mean, not only a dentist, but you knew you want to own your own practice on top of that as well. Dr. Ellis: Yeah, and I think that's what's a little different for me is when I talk to younger dentists now, they don't go into it for that reason. You know, they want to do the dentistry; it seems like a good career. And I wanted all that too. It's just I also knew I needed to do something where I was in charge. And maybe that's just my personality. And I wanted, you know, the buck to stop with me at some point, whether I was managing people in a role or working towards being a manager. This one just panned out perfect, though, for my personality and my interest. Danton: And how does, you know, running your own business, I mean, it seems like, you know, that's obviously very important to you. But the flip side is the buck does stop with you, so you got to make all the decisions and the day to day can be a little bit more stressful. So how are you managing that with…you've got family now, you've got a dental practice and now multiple businesses, really. So, I mean, how has that been for you guys? Dr. Ellis: Well, the good news is I didn't graduate and walk into this big business. It was an evolution over time. If you would have asked me when I graduated 19 years ago, if this is what it would look like, I would have had no idea that this was possible for myself. Danton: Sure Dr. Ellis: It evolved over time. And I just luckily leaned on the people who had done it before me and who did it well, and took their advice when they would tell me, hey, you need to hire this person to help you with this, or you need to hire this person to help you with payroll, accounting, financials, because you don't have to do it all by yourself. So even though I am at the top of the pyramid, and I make the decisions, the support team I have right next to me is probably equally as important to making this successful. So yeah, I started out small, I was an associate, I worked for another dentist at first, because you don't get any business acumen in dental school. And I was green, very green, when I graduated, and I met a woman who said I could come work with her in her Kirkwood office in St. Louis. And she would teach me things she loved to teach. And she said, I don't have a ton of patients for you, but come and you can build up your patient base here. And I did that, and she was so kind and taught me more than I could have imagined. She knew ultimately I wanted my own practice, so she was super supportive three years later when I decided t

Wit, Wisdom, & What Matters Most podcast Episode 5 featuring Steve Kyle: And welcome to another edition of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most podcast with Moneta's Gast, Freeman Troyer Racen team. My name is Kyle Luetters, joined alongside Danton Troyer. And Danton, very special guest on today's show as we continue to talk about retirement and the conversations around this particular area and topic. Well, we have a wonderful guest; someone that you've known for a long time, his name is Steve, he works at Charles River and quite a unique story. I'll bring you in to chat about him a little bit. Danton: I have known Steve for several years now and really got to know him both as a client and I've gone on a couple golf trips with him. So, you know, it's quite a unique relationship as far as working with a client goes, but I'm definitely excited for this interview and to hear the stories that Steve will share with us. Kyle: And with no further ado, here's our conversation with Steve. And jumping in here to our conversation, we have Steve with us here. Steve, welcome to the Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most podcast. It's good to see you, good to talk to you today. Steve: Great, thanks for having me; appreciate it. Kyle: So, I know that I'm going to bring Danton in here on this one because you and Danton have had quite a relationship. I'll let Danton kind of take over from here because Danton and Steve, you've known each other here for quite a while. Danton: Yes, Steve and I have known each other for several years now. It's been a fun client relationship and even getting to go play some golf outside of the office, as well. So, we've definitely had some fun times over the last several years as well. And so hopefully today we just talk about as you approach retirement and what that feels like and looks like for you. And I'm sure we'll get some good stories out there as well. Steve: Oh, good, yeah. Perfect. Kyle: Right, so Steve, you're at your Charles River Labs. Steve: Yes. Kyle: How did you end up there because the fascinating stories are how do people end up in the situations and the places that they end up? So, give us the lay of the land, give us the journey, how did you get to where you are today? Steve: And it is kind of an interesting story. So, I've been working, I have a PhD in toxicology. I've been in the toxicology pharmaceutical business now for 25 plus years. I've worked at a number of major pharmaceutical companies throughout my tenure. And when I was at the last one, I was recruited to Charles River Labs. And they made me an offer to come and help set up a new facility and I took it. What's funny about it is years later my boss at that pharmaceutical, that last pharmaceutical company, is the one who gave the recruiters my name. I found that he really wanted me to come. And through some offers they made that I basically couldn't refuse, I took the job. Then I found out years later, he told me that, hey, I got you recruited here. Kyle: Oh, that's quite the story. So, you mentioned a PhD in toxicology -describe kind of how you get that degree, what goes into your day-to-day world and lifestyle because we talk to folks that come from all sorts of different walks of life. This is not necessarily your run of the mill accountant or engineer or dog catcher. I mean, this is, this is a bit different. So, what does your day actually look like? Steve: So, my day or how I got here? So let's start with how I got here. Like everybody else, I went to college and was one of those people who did very well in high school, graduated third my class in high school, knew I wanted to do more. At first, I wanted to do medical school, like many, many people do, but I spent time with my own physician. He allowed me to go in and see patients and I realized that medical school wasn't for me. So, I started doing research as an undergraduate and that clicked and I knew that I wanted to go on. And so I ended up getting my PhD actually in molecular and cell biology from the University of Connecticut. And back then, everyone did what they called the postdoc, which is kind of like a residency or internship for PhDs, which I did at a very well-known lab at the University of Wisconsin. And then was recruited to my, unless my wife says it, my first job at what used to be called Park Davis Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan, where I was brought in to do a variety of toxicology jobs. I was then recruited to another major pharmaceutical, and then ended up at Charles River, as I mentioned. My day today is, now my title is chief scientific officer for safety assessment. I spend a lot of time working with our clients, many of my major pharmaceutical clients. I work on strategy, direction for the organization, general problem solving, and a lot of harmonization and alignment of our sites throughout our organization. I answer a lot of questions on a day-to-day basis. Danton: So, this is right up your alley then. Steve, you were talking about kind of high school on, but what was the thing you wanted to be when you grow up? How far off is it, or was it in the ballpark? Steve: Well jokingly, I don't know if I should tell this story in my role, but when I was in graduate school, I always thought I wanted to go into an industry and do research and industries, discover new drugs and things of that nature. And we had a grant, we were a joint grant, basically my PhD is in biochemistry, molecular and cell biology, with a heavy emphasis on protein chemistry. And we shared a grant with a toxicology group, and I figured I would sit in on some tox courses just to see what that discipline is about. And I swore to myself, after just sitting in on the classes, that I would never be a toxicologist. And it's kind of funny now that I am the head of or the lead toxicologist for the largest non-clinical CRO in the world. It's kind of funny that I ended up in this role. So, you never know where life's going to take you. Danton: Yeah, I definitely agree. Kyle: You make good mention of how you've gotten to the point that you're at, it's this fascinating journey. This is one of the reasons why I love having these conversations is the pathways are always really interesting. But we've talked about the past a whole lot, and let's talk about the future a little bit, because part of what we're doing on this podcast, at least in this series, is talking about retirement. It's not just necessarily folks that have been in retirement for a while, or they've just gotten into retirement. Walk us through maybe a little bit, how much longer you potentially see yourself working, and would anything change that? Do you have an eye toward that? I mean, at a certain point, everybody's going to kind of be done. But describe where you're at these days. Steve: So last year, I turned 60, so I've reached that threshold. So, as you know, as you're getting to your 60s, and you're now in the age group and your peers and your friends and family are probably of similar age. They all either have or are looking at retirement as well. I'm in that same ballpark. When I exactly retire, Danton and I have kind of set a date on paper, but it's not written in stone. I really still like what I'm doing. I like contributing to the organization. But it is on the horizon, I'm not going to say how far. I'll say somewhere between four and seven years, right now. So what could change that? I think everybody who works, whether they just started or are in my shoes or a person a year from retirement wakes up every day and says, is today the day I retire? Danton: Yeah. Steve: You know, you open your first email and you're like, oh, gee, I think I should retire today. Kyle: Today's the day! Steve: But then there are successes and the things that work really well, and so you keep going. So, you know, that's for me, but I do think about it because I am getting closer. I have, as I said, peers and friends and family who are either looking at retirement in a very short amount of time. But as I said, I really like what I'm doing right now. What could change that? Of course, winning the lottery. I always think about my first phone call after winning would be to Danton. Like, okay, how do we take this money and what do we do? You know, the industry is always changing. That could have an impact. Either one way I stay longer, leave earlier, whatever. But right now, it's again, I really don't know what could change that. Those are the probably the biggest things is what's going on in the industry or if I don't like what I'm doing anymore. But I don't think I'm one of those people that can just stop. Danton: You mentioned a lot of people around you are contemplating retirement. Have you seen either family, friends, or co-workers who went into retirement and did it well, you thought? Or the other side of it, have you seen anybody who you were like, I'm not doing it that way; I think that was a big mistake? Steve: I've seen all of it. I've seen people who have retired and have walked away and never looked back. A friend of mine who I've known since my very early days at Parke-Davis retired. Said if he ever did go back, he would maybe join a biotech, but never in large pharma again. Within two weeks, he was back in large pharma. So, you know, I see people who, a friend of mine recently retired in the last year or two, retired, but now he's off consulting. I think it's just that most of the people I know and interact with are similar, similarly educated as I have, reached the same or similar levels or even higher in organizations, and they're not people who can probably just walk away automatically. There's always something; they're going to do something. They're not just going to sit and go play golf forever. Danton: How do you see that relating to you and your retirement then? Steve: Yeah, I'm thinking,...

featuring Bruce Williams Kyle: Welcome to Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most, a podcast with Moneta's Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team. My name is Kyle Luetters, joined alongside Danton Troyer. Very excited for this episode because it's someone, Danton, that, you'll hear me mention in the actual interview, but I'm kind of a fanboy of. His name is Bruce Williams, owns a very unique company down in Farmington, Missouri, called US Tool, and the conversation really spans a lot of different topics. Danton: Yeah, and I think when you first talk about US Tool, it doesn't maybe sound terribly exciting. Kyle: Not on a script, yes. Danton: Yeah, but once you hear Bruce start talking about it and his passion around making tools, and it's certainly more than that. I think the business is, what it's doing obviously matters, but his culture and the story behind it is fascinating. From the culture he's built, going from 20 employees to 1,200, and potentially having a fourth generation in the business, it's not something you hear about every day. Kyle: It really is not, and in this interview, there were a number of things that I learned, like how all of this really did get started, and I won't give it away right now, let Bruce take the punchline on this, but it's definitely not what I originally thought it was. And he really starts to speak about the genesis of the company, how they transitioned amongst now two generations, and really what he's kind of carved out for himself. Danton: Yeah, it's really one of the more interesting stories from a family business that I've heard. Kyle: All right, without further ado, this is our conversation with Bruce Williams. At this time, it's our pleasure to welcome Bruce Williams to Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. Bruce, how are you doing today? Bruce: I am doing just great. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Kyle: Awesome, and frankly, I'm gonna fanboy out here a little bit. This has been one of the guests I've been looking forward to the most, because I really find your and your family's story interesting. Bruce: Well, good. Kyle: So, if you could kind of briefly describe the company that you and your family have, and describe a little bit of where you all are today, the area that you play in or work in, and kind of how you've integrated your family into the business. Bruce: Okay, yeah. Well, I'll start out, my father actually started the business. He was in the shoe business in the early '50s, right after the war. And he manufactured women's shoes, of all things. And that was one of the first industries that kind of got shipped overseas and became very competitive. And one of his vice presidents came in his office one day and said, boy, this business really stinks. We need to do something different. And so they got into reconditioning cutting tools. And that was the origin of the company. It's called U.S. Tool Grinding. And we started, my father started grinding twist drills and other cutting tools. And the company has grown, I joined the company, it's grown over the years. And back in, I think it was 1974, I joined the company, and there was about 20 employees. We now have 1,000 employees, actually 1,200. And we've grown quite a bit over the years. And primarily our business now is reconditioning cutting tools for the aerospace industry, mostly fighter jet manufacturers and commercial jet manufacturers. And also, providing manufacturing supplies to our customers. We do that by having warehouses throughout North America. And we supply materials and supplies to our customers on the shop floor through vending solutions. We actually have vending machines, kind of like, you know the vending machines where you go up and you've got a sandwich in there and you press a button and the little wheel turns around. You say, that's the sandwich I want. And then you put your money in and the door opens. Well, in this case, these are high-powered sandwich machines that have computers in them. And the mechanics go up to the machine and they punch in what material or supply they need...a precision micrometer, gloves, safety glasses, precision cutting tools, diamond cutting tools, those kinds of things, very sophisticated things. And they punch that in and then the wheel turns around and the appropriate door opens up and they take out that item. At that time, we charge the customer for it and we can track what program it's being used on, who's using it, and all that kind of stuff. So, then we keep track of the fact that they've used X number of these and then we buy replenishment for that and obviously refill our warehouses and make sure that they have the right tools, the right supplies and everything at the right time. Kyle: I told you it was interesting. Danton: That's quite a jump from women's shoes. Bruce: Very big jump, exactly, yes, yes. Danton: So, when did that transition really occur? I mean, women's shoes to grinding tools is quite a jump. Bruce: It's a big jump. Actually, the cutting tools, the women's shoes was in the early '50s. And when my father moved away from that and went into the drill reconditioning business, that's when the shoe factory was closed and that was the end of that, of course. So that's when my father started building the company up and getting various customers. And in the beginning, his thinking was he was gonna do business primarily with McDonnell Douglas, which is now Boeing, here in St. Louis. And that was his first customer. And then he realized that he could venture out into the other industries like automotive business and trailer body manufacturing, bus manufacturing, and so on. But most of our business now is aerospace, fighter jet manufacturing. Boeing is a big customer of ours. Northrop Grumman, General Electric..we have a number of customers spread out through North America. Kyle: Very cool. So, you had talked about that your dad got this business going after women's shoes kind of went overseas and he got into the tool grinding. You've been instrumental in growing the business, and then now your son, or one of your children, has really now - third generation. And we talk a lot around here about succession planning and family business. There's a lot of analogies…the first generation comes along and really blood, sweat and tears grinds it, the second generation grows it, and then the third one ruins it. Bruce: Your words, not mine. Kyle: We've had the pleasure of meeting your son, Brent, and kind of describe how you guys work in the business together. Because again, you were very instrumental in growing US Tool, and I got to imagine that the transition, the handoff to that, can't necessarily be, all right, son, here's the keys. I'll see you later. It is much more involved in that. Bruce: Absolutely. And, first of all, Brent does a fantastic job. And that analogy of the third generation ruins the businesses, that really isn't quite true. And certainly, in this case, it is not true. Brent is actually the president of the company now. He's been with the company 15 years now. And he basically runs the business now. I'm still very involved. I'm concentrating more on the things that I like to do more and more. I like to design machinery and equipment and work on some of the technical aspects of the company. And that's what I focus on. And I do training and training videos and those kinds of things. He basically runs the business as president; I'm the CEO, which is the title that you give to the person you kick upstairs to get them out of the way. Danton: Good to know. Bruce: Exactly, very good to know. Danton: So, you started working for your father… Bruce: Yes. Danton: And now your son is working for you. How has that dynamic changed? Or were there differences between working for your father and now obviously your son? Or did you try to take some takeaways from that? Kyle: Well, and too, and to piggyback on that, I'm curious to understand. There was a period of time where I worked with my dad in his business, and we are obviously not working in the same business anymore. So, was there, to piggyback on Danton's question, were there lessons you learned in working with your dad, things that he did well, or things that you would change when you started to have Brent come along, and you kind of shifted roles from being the generation coming in to the generation doing the mentoring? Bruce: Well, first of all, when Brent first came into the… Well, let's go back even earlier. When I came into the business, there were about 20, maybe 30 employees. And I was concerned about that: How are my father and I gonna get along? And we're gonna work together well? and all that kind of stuff. And we did. And we did so because he basically gave me free reign. I'd say, I think we ought to do this, we ought to do that. And he'd say, that's fine, that's fine. I didn't find out until many, many years later when my mother told me after he had passed away, when he was, unfortunately, when he was 61, he passed away after I'd been with the company about five years. And I found out many, many years later, she said, my father used to come home and say, you won't believe what he's doing now. Kyle: I can imagine. Bruce: But it was a different thinking process. When I first started there, I can remember the tools that we used to, the hand tools we used, there's a hand tool called an Allen wrench. It's a very inexpensive tool. Probably back then they cost 50 cents or a dollar or something like that. And when I first arrived at the company, the company was probably 2,000 square feet or something like that in size. But they only had one set of Allen wrenches. And everybody was running around, hey, do you have the Allen wrench? Do you have the 3 /32nds Allen wrench? I need it now. And so I thought, well, this is crazy....

Kyle: Welcome to another edition of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most, a podcast about the nuances of life. I'm Kyle Luetters, joined by Danton Troyer, and we're both on the Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team at Moneta, a registered investment advisory firm. Danton, typically, we will have a guest on the show and we're talking to someone about their experiences in life, their stories. But today…no guest, but we're still sharing some of what I would say is the wisdom that you and I have gleaned over our time in the profession that we're in. And we're talking about retirement. We're talking about some of the best practices that we've observed in retirement. And again, everybody's story is different. Everybody's story is unique. But we've kind of been talking about the things that we've noticed that the folks that seem most happy, most fulfilled in retirement, what they kind of do. Danton: Yeah, I mean, we've heard stories from different individuals. But there's also stories that we just share from doing this over the last 17 years and seeing some folks have been more successful than others in their retirement; how they approach it matters. Kyle: And so that's what we're going to talk about today, just some of those stories. Yeah, and so we've kind of taken some of our observations here together and it will just kind of start rolling with those. But, you know, Danton, it's been very interesting. You mentioned the time that you've been doing this. I'll say that hasn't been quite as long, but it's now been long enough, I do have a few gray hairs to help mark the passage of time and I've had the privilege of working with a number of folks that were either retired when I started or have since retired. And one of the things I wanted to kind of toss out there was this idea of the folks that seem to be the most happy, most fulfilled in retirement…they have a good idea of the types of activities that they want to do when they get there. But they're also open to changing them. You know, we hear the story all the time of like, if I could retire and just play golf every day, that would be great. And I know that's probably right in your wheelhouse. Danton: It doesn't sound too bad. Kyle: Exactly. But sometimes what we hear is, is that folks will retire, they think they're going to do one thing, but then they end up doing other things and they kind of find themselves a little bit in retirement. Danton: Yeah. And we've seen folks that go in thinking, I'm going to have all this free time. I think that's the biggest thing people maybe are surprised about as they start to plan out their activities is that they don't have that much free time between, maybe volunteering and maybe golf and a couple other things. I mean, your schedule is pretty full. Hopefully it's doing things that are more enjoyable than going to the office every day, but people are a lot busier than I think they anticipate being when they head into retirement. Kyle: You know, that was one of the funniest things. We have a client down, down in the Mid-South, I would say. And he says, gosh, I don't know how I ever had the time to work! So, to your point, there is a lot that goes into the activities. And then we've seen, we've mentioned golf, so activity type stuff, taking more yoga classes or Pilates classes, volunteerism. Danton: Yeah. I think that's a big one that we've seen a lot and also contributes to maybe filling up calendars potentially a little bit faster because there's plenty of folks that need help out there and plenty of opportunities to volunteer. And so, if you are willing to volunteer for one of those organizations, they'll use you as much time as you'll let them. Kyle: Well, and also too, it does help fulfill this kind of innate human feeling of needing, or excuse me, wanting to feel needed, wanting to feel like you belong. And when you think about it, we work for the majority of our lifetime, we have a purpose when we get up in the morning and it's usually to go and do a vocation. When you get into retirement, sometimes that volunteering, that having a place to go, that sense of being needed is actually very, very powerful. Danton: Yeah. And we've heard that from even guests talking about not quite being ready to retire simply because they feel like they have more to give. And I've heard that from especially higher level executives and they just feel like there's more to give back into maybe the business world. And I think part of that is they haven't figured out how they can give back in retirement as well and maybe in a different way. Kyle: And one thing that we've heard too is that a lot of folks will say, I want to retire from something, but really it's retiring to something or somethings, so to speak. Danton: Absolutely. Well, I think one of the other ones that I've seen is folks trying to rely on their friends, family, coworkers, nowadays, social media, as they're going into retirement or really any financial decision. And I think those folks that are able to be secure and confident in their financial plan have less distractions as it comes to making these very important decisions. And, unfortunately, we've seen people make some pretty poor decisions in doing that, but also folks that have been able to kind of block that out. And then they bring the questions to us all the time and I think in a good way, versus some folks maybe don't bring them to us and just execute on them on their own. And a lot of times we end up cleaning up mistakes that they thought were a great idea, but potentially were not. Kyle: We call this brother-in-law at Thanksgiving dinner advice, and not to pick on brother-in-laws, I am a brother-in-law, and sometimes I do have bad ideas at Thanksgiving dinner. But, you bring up an excellent point in that one of the most beautiful things about what we do is each individual plan, each individual set of circumstances is customized to someone's retirement, to someone's goals and objectives. And frankly, selfishly, that's one of the most fun things about what we get to do is that no financial plan is exactly the same. No set of circumstances is exactly the same. So, each day, each year by year, it's different. Danton: Correct. Yeah. And I think my example, I won't say which family, but I was at Thanksgiving one year and there was an argument over basically what Medicare supplement someone's having. Someone said, I'm on a, well, they didn't say exactly, but I'm on a Medicare Advantage and it's free and you should definitely be on that one. And I always sit back quietly. I was like, well, they may have other health issues. I mean, you have no idea what their circumstances are to give them that advice, especially not at Thanksgiving dinner. So, I hope that person kind of went back and thought about it as it relates to themselves versus just taking blanket advice. And I may see that with social media, you know folks send us these -what seem like great ideas - but if you peel back a little bit, it doesn't work for them in any way. And in fact, could potentially hurt them if they would have tried that strategy just because it didn't work for them, but it may not have been necessarily wrong. Kyle: At times it's very difficult to paint with a very broad brush. There's a lot of little nuance and detail that some of those smaller brushes can help provide the color on. You know, one thing too, to bear in mind as well, that's different for each and every plan and client and family is, and this is I think a best practice, is having a good idea on monthly and or annual spending numbers. Because when we're working, we can continue to earn a paycheck. So, if we're spending money, we know that we're still going to work. Hopefully we're getting a raise or we're going to move to a different job and make additional money and that's going to take care of that when you get into retirement. It is really kind of interesting because you're no longer earning. You're now shifting gears to spending rather than accumulating at that point. So, the vast majority of the time, when we're taking a look at financial plans and projections and things like this and that, one of the biggest things that drives success is that expense and that spending number. Danton: Yeah. I feel like that's something we talk about almost every meeting with a client and it's either one or two ways where they have been a great saver their whole lives and they're actually struggling to spend the dollars versus the other side where they're calling up asking for more money every year. And they thought that they were only going to live on X amount of dollars, but it turned out to be quite a bit more and it was a surprise to them. And so I think having a good handle on that, going into retirement is one of the biggest keys, certainly for success. And obviously the goal is not running out of money. Kyle: Now, I think that's very important to notate that. And one thing that is kind of like a subset best practice I would say is, is that in the maybe two to three years before someone fully retires is, is going through some sort of a tracking exercise to really kind of get an idea. A ballpark is really what we're asking, like a ballpark because some years are going to be more expensive than others. Some months are more expensive than others. We both have kids so it seems to me like December's always usually more expensive than June, but then again, who knows, depends on when you take a vacation. So, that's definitely one I think we would like to share with everyone is just kind of having an idea of the spending amounts, just that way we can have confidence in the plan. Danton: Yeah, I agree. We see folks that have, like I said, done a good job saving on the flip side of that is allowing them to enjoy their retirement with the money that they're spending. And we see so often where someone's like, well,...

Wit, Wisdom, & What Matters Most podcast Episode 3 featuring Sean Zalmanoff An entrepreneur asks, "Where do you see yourself…" Kyle: And welcome to another episode of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. It's a podcast by Moneta's Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team. My name is Kyle Luetters, joined by Danton Troyer. And Danton, on this episode of the podcast, the way we met this guest, or the way I met this guest, you met him when he came into the studio, but I met him at 5:30 in the morning in a park in Kirkwood about three years ago. So the gentleman's name here today is Sean Zalmanoff. And Sean owns a mortgage company, Better Rate Mortgage. And before we get into the mortgage industry, Sean and I do this thing, it's a men's workout group called F3, and you get together and you work out early in the morning. And you can tell a lot, I think, about someone's drive and their goal setting by whether or not they're going to show up at 5:30 in the morning, no matter rain or shine. And so in this episode, we kind of talk about how Sean got into this industry, the journey that he took to get to where he is today, because he was at one of the larger companies and won't give away the entire thing, but there was a bit of a hard right turn, and a few other things that he brought up in his conversation about the industry itself. Danton: Yeah, and I found it interesting just from his perspective and working through different firms, as you mentioned, and then hearing some of the stories of what to avoid, especially as a consumer in the mortgage industry, and those free lunches you hear on the radio or the TV sometimes aren't so free. And so it was good to hear how to avoid some of those pitfalls, as well as how he manages a business, but also works with his family and is able to take care of his kids and really have a good relationship with them and use that as a drive for his business as well. Kyle: It really was a story about an industry as well as entrepreneurship, but I think most importantly, and what I hope everyone takes away from this is the power of clear vision and what that means. And with that being said, here's our conversation with Sean Zalmanoff. And back on Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most with Sean Zalmanoff, Sean, welcome to the podcast. Sean: Thanks for having me today. Kyle: Perfect. So, Sean, very interesting type of a conversation you and I had here a while back over a cup of coffee. We've been, I guess you could call it workout buddies, for quite a while through an organization called F3, and it was really the first time you and I had the chance to sit down and talk about business and what we did and how we do the things that we do. So, you know, Better Rate Mortgage, your firm now. Describe the genesis. How did you get started in the mortgage industry? And then kind of take us through the steps, because I found it to be a very interesting story of entrepreneurship. Sean: So I graduated college in '00, and I wasn't quite ready to leave school yet. So played in Columbia, Missouri for another year. 9-11 happened, and I basically become a professional job interviewer. I think I interviewed for like 60 or 70 different jobs. And so during the course of that time, what I really realized that I wanted to do, I wanted to help people and I wanted to solve problems. And sales was just a natural fit, because I like to talk to people. And there was a gentleman who came into the bar that I managed all the time, who was very successful in the mortgage industry. And then after 9-11 happened, interest rates dropped a lot, so there was even more opportunity. But it was really interesting from the restaurant standpoint. You know, everybody's heard of Reagan and trickle-down economics. And so during the course of my entire college career, I mean, it was just faucet on economics. Kids had lots of money. Parents' stock portfolios were doing really good. They spent lots of money. 9-11 happened and portfolios got cut in half and nobody spent money anymore. So, I was like, oh, you know, I think it's time to go get a real job. Yeah. Kyle: And obviously, too, as we're recording this, just coming up on 23 years of that. Sean: January 2nd will be 23 years. Yeah. Kyle: For you inside. OK. Wow, all right. Sorry. Go ahead. Sean: So he had an office in O'Fallon, Missouri. I worked there for a few short months. It was probably seven or eight months. I learned everything that was wrong with the industry. If you imagine like a boiler room set up where kids in the back were ripping pages out of phone books. This was before the do not call lists, and we're just like calling people for refis and transferring up - that was what I was learning. I almost started a company that was just going to charge a flat fee and review people's - we called them good faith estimates at the time - where terms were laid out and just consult them and be like, pick this deal, because what they were doing was terrible. Bounced around to a couple of different companies over the next four years. And then in 2005, I opened my own mortgage brokerage company at that time; ran that for four years. But I had never worked in a big corporate environment. Kyle: Okay. Sean: And so I didn't have some of the experience that I felt that I really needed to grow and take my career to the next level. So, 2009 happens, great recession, end of days of our industry is upon us once again. And I had an opportunity from a company too, that didn't have a presence where my office was in St. Louis City at the time. And so they asked if I would open up an office for them. And I did and I ran that for the next 13 years. And it was a great place to work; it was a great ride. But the last nine years that I was there, I grew my region, we were doing a lot of loans. I don't need to share numbers, but we did a lot of loans, we helped a lot of people. But I was managing offices in five states, I was managing 70 plus people. And the interesting thing about loan officers is loan officers are typically sad when they're sad. And then they're sad when they're happy, too. Danton: I haven't heard that. Kyle: That's a wide range of emotion right there. Sean: And so it just, it grinded on me. And so a few years ago, I was on a vacation sitting on a dock and I was just like, what do I like about the industry? What do I not like about the industry? So, I just took out the old scientific sheet of paper and I wrote everything that I liked on one side, what I didn't like on the other. And what kept coming up was, you know, the same thing that I got me in the industry was helping people. And for a while, I was able to help a lot of loan officers. Maybe my time had just come. Maybe my message was a little bit dull, but I wasn't helping them in the same way that I felt I used to. Some of them were grinding on my soul a little bit as well, too. And then I wasn't forming any relationships. I hadn't originated in nine years, so I wasn't - an origination, that's actually helping the individuals who need mortgages get mortgages. I was just managing the team. Kyle: It's like boots on the ground, like meeting with actual clients. Sean: Meeting with actual people, yeah. And so I wasn't doing that and I wasn't forming relationships with financial planners, with realtors anymore. And it just kept coming up. These are the things that I like to do. So, I actually cut the vacation a little bit short and I went home and I wrote a business plan and then was like, well, what company fits this model that I want to do? And there really wasn't one out there. And just with being in the industry at that time, 20 years, I knew that I could open a company to help individuals at a cost - I could close loans at a cost that most other companies couldn't open their doors at. And one of the things that, I like listening to other successful people, and so something that Jeff Bezos said about a decade ago that I saw in an interview. Somebody asked him, Jeff, what do you do in your industry to prepare for the next 10 years? And what is changing and how are you adapting to those changes? And he said, great question. Very political answer, you know, great question. And then answered how he wanted to answer it. And he's like, well, we really ask ourselves is what's going to be the same five years from now? What are we doing better than everybody else? And how do we continue to do that better than everybody else? And in my industry, people like to call it something different, but we're a commodity. People say you got to be, if you're cheap and fast, you can't be easy. I mean, in the mortgage world, if you're not cheap, fast and easy, you're dead. And if you're not dead now, you will be in five years because technology helps us a lot. And when I coach other loan officers, one of the things that I often tell them is that there's going to be a time, and it's not in the very too distant future, where they measure the money that they make, not by how much they make a transaction, but by how much they make an hour. Because consulting people and then delivering AI and a lot of things takes a lot of work off of my plate. So I can close more loans now than I could 10 years ago in the same amount of time and in 10 years from now, I'll still close more loans, but I will within the same amount of time. And so I wanted to build a company that 10 years from then would still be relevant, competitive, and industry leading in rates, because that's what matters. And that's why I just led with Better Rate Mortgage and opened the company that way. Danton: Wow. So, outside of the office, what do you have family that supports you or what else is there for you? Sean: So, I have two amazing boys; they get the majority of my time. A lot of my community outreach and things that I did in the past, they're eight and ten, so it really revolves around them....