Wonks and War Rooms

In this episode Elizabeth chats with Shaily Gebethner, a part-time professor at the University of Ottawa's in the Faculty of Education and Director of International Programs at Ecole Des Langues ABCE, to unpack AI in higher education. They discuss generative AI tools like Chat GPT or Claude to determine whether their benefits come at the cost of the essential struggle needed to shape learners. Shaily shares her research on how graduate students and adult language learners use these tools, and why distributed learning, intentional design, and scaffolding matters. She argues policy makers shouldn't assume that technology is useful just because it’s available. 

Additional Resources:

• Check out Shaily’s academic work!
• To learn more about how Claude’s “J space” resembles the neural network within a human brain where information is processed, check out A global workspace in language models. 
• Look into uOttawa’s Generative AI Guide for more information on how to navigate using AI in higher education. 
• Check out to Students’ Practices and Skills in the LLM-Era: “You Can’t Outsource the Struggle and Still Get the Skill” to learn how graduate programs cannot prepare students to conduct rigorous research in the LLM era, risking creating a generation of researchers who delegate tasks without the necessary expertise.

Contributors

Host: Elizabeth Dubois
Research Lead: Sarah Pledge-Dickson
Transcript: Areej El-Sharif
Audio Editing: Sarah Pledge-Dickson
Translation: Julianne Bernier Robert
Publishing and Promotion: Aaron Brisson
Producer: Sarah Pledge-Dickson 

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

In this episode Elizabeth chats with Jason Millar, a professor in the School of Engineering, Design and Teaching Innovation in the Faculty of Engineering at the University of Ottawa. And I have a Canada Research Chair in the Ethical Engineering of Robotics and Artificial Intelligence, to unpack ethical engineering in AI. They discuss why concepts like safety mean different things to ethicists and engineers, and how that translation leaves harm like misinformation and emotional dependence on chatbots unaddressed. Jason shares his work at CRAiEDL, and why incentives, regulation, and engineering culture matter. He argues policy makers shouldn’t assume engineers will get this right with regulation.

Additional Resources:

• Check out Jason’s academic work on Google Scholar!
• Read Canada’s proposed The Artificial Intelligence and Data Act (AIDA) which was part of Bill C-27 that was halted at the beginning of 2025. 
• Tune in to Christelle’s episode on the governance of AI
• To learn more about the history of engineering and how we have seatbelts in cars read Jason’s early work An ethical dilemma: When robot cars must kill, who should pick the victim?
• You can find Jason on LinkedIn as well!

Contributors

Host: Elizabeth Dubois
Research Lead: Areej El-Sharif
Transcript: Areej El-Sharif
Audio Editing: Sarah Pledge-Dickson
Translation: Julianne Bernier Robert
Publishing and Promotion: Aaron Brisson
Producer: Sarah Pledge-Dickson

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

In this episode Elizabeth chats with Étienne Brown who is an associate professor in the Department of Philosophy at the University of Ottawa. From recommending algorithms to AI chatbots, Étienne has spent the last ten years exploring how the fight over attention is reshaping democratic discourse and why he thinks AI products should face safety review before release. They dig into the ethics of who controls AI and talk about the risks of a few private companies holding power over the information we consume. 

Additional Resources:

• Read The Attention Merchants by Tim Wu as a companion read. 
• Check out Elizabeth’s report on The Political Uses of AI in Canada. 
• For more context about the conspiracy-belief study on how dialogue with an AI chatbot reduces conspiracy beliefs read, Durably reducing conspiracy beliefs through dialogues with AI
• Étienne mentions Elizabeth's past work: The echo chamber is overstated: the moderating effect of political interest and diverse media Check out Étienne Brown’s op-ed, La Silicon Valey a besoin d’un organisme de réglementation indépendant  on regulating AI like the pharmaceutical industry.

Contributors

Host: Elizabeth Dubois
Research Lead: Areej El-Sharif & Sarah Pledge-Dickson
Transcript: Areej El-Sharif
Audio Editing: Sarah Pledge-Dickson
Translation: Julianne Bernier Robert
Publishing and Promotion: Aaron Brisson
Producer: Sarah Pledge-Dickson

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

In this episode Elizabeth chats with Christelle Tessono who is a doctoral student at the University of Toronto and a researcher at The Dais, to unpack what AI governance really means. They chat about AI as a socio-technical system which includes the technology but also the labor, land, water and infrastructure behind it. The conversation traces Canada’s Federal AI policy landscape and provincial response like Quebec’s Law 25 and Onatrio’s Bill 194.  Christelle argues initiatives about AI governance need to come from collaboration between people  across a wide range of departments and agencies as well as beyond government. 

Additional Resources:

• Read Bureaucratic Silences: What the Canadian AI Register Reveals, Omits, and Obscures where Christelle and her colleagues delve into the Canadian federal Public AI Register. 
• The Department of Innovation, Science and Economic Development (ISED) lead most of Canada’s Federal initiatives. Some of the initiatives mentioned in the episode are:   AI for All, AI Literacy Initiative, and Pan-Canadian AI Strategy. 
• Check out  Canadian Safety Institute to learn more about the professional training and consulting organization that specializes in health, safety, and environmental (HSE) management.
• Read AI Companions and Canada’s Digital Safety Act, a report from CIGI, to understand the growing challenge for the Canadian government with the youth fostering ongoing emotional relationships with chatbots in the wake of the tragedy in Tumbler Ridge in B.C.
• Check out Christelle on LinkedIn and Bluesky as well!

Contributors

Host: Elizabeth Dubois
Research Lead: Nathan Kazmir Poklar
Transcript: Areej El-Sharif
Audio Editing: Sarah Pledge-Dickson
Translation: Julianne Bernier Robert
Publishing and Promotion: Aaron Brisson
Producer: Sarah Pledge-Dickson 

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

Get ready for Season 8 of Wonks & War Rooms! This season, we’re looking at AI Beyond Tech. Chatting with experts from social sciences, humanities and law, we ask what’s missing from discussions of AI, its impacts and its governance.

Host Elizabeth Dubois will talk to uOttawa scholars and other experts about everything from ethical engineering to environmental concerns, from privacy to data sovereignty.

As always, episodes drop every Wednesday morning every week. The first episode drops exceptionally Thursday October 1st, as we pay respect to the National Day of Truth and Reconciliation on September 30th. 

Thanks for listening!

Contributors

Host: Elizabeth Dubois
Transcript: Areej El-Sharif
Audio Editing: Sarah Pledge Dickson
Translation: Julianne Bernier Robert
Publishing and Promotion: Aaron Brisson
Producer: Sarah Pledge Dickson

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

In this episode, Elizabeth talks to Mike Pal, a law professor at the University of Ottawa, about election laws in Canada. Elizabeth and Mike discuss the laws and institutions that govern elections in Canada, including the Canada Elections Act and Elections Canada.   They discuss threats to election integrity and security posed by new technologies in an age of democratic decline. Elizabeth and Mike also delve into the threat of foreign interference, voter privacy in big data elections, and a changing media environment prone to misinformation and disinformation. They close out by talking about artificial intelligence (AI), specifically its potential to transform our electoral landscape and how we should best prepare to ensure our laws and institutions continue to bolster public trust in our democracy. 

Additional Resources

• Throughout the episode, Mike and Elizabeth reference the Canada Elections Act to understand part of Canada’s legal regime around election integrity and security.
• Mike cites the American Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000) case as an example of the importance of election laws as a way for citizens to exercise their political rights. 
• Elizabeth discusses the need to begin mapping out the role of technology in election security laws in Canada,  including potential threats to elections and how election laws might then be updated or changed. For more information, consult: Election Integrity and Security.
• To listen to our episode on Foreign Interference at the Nomination Level, consult: Season 7 Episode 4 - Foreign Interference at the Nomination Level with Conner Coles.
• Mike mentions how there are privacy rules of various kinds, but political parties federally are an exception, to learn more consult: Guidance for federal political parties on protecting personal information.
• To  listen to episodes from our season on political influencers, consult: Season 6 of the Wonks and War Rooms podcast. 
• Elizabeth and Mike also reference the Elections Modernization Act to understand the importance of updating laws to protect election integrity and security. 
• Mike mentions the ‘Big Lie”; the idea of claiming without justification or without evidence that the electoral system is rigged on one side or the other.
  
  Contributors

Host: Elizabeth Dubois
Research Lead: Michelle Rodrigues
Transcript: Michelle Rodrigues 
Audio Editing: Ayman Naciri
Translation: Els Thant & Helena Legault
Publishing and Promotion: Helena Legault & Michelle Bartleman 
Producer: Michelle Hennessey

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

In this episode, Elizabeth talks to Nick Taylor-Vaisey, a journalist for Politico who works on the Ottawa Playbook, a free daily morning newsletter decoding Canadian politics. Nick and Elizabeth discuss the role of newsletters in curating information in a high-choice media environment and the way journalism has adapted to becoming digital. They discuss newsletters as a form of political information sharing and how this type of media can facilitate a direct relationship between author and reader. Elizabeth and Nick close out the show by chatting about the different reasons that individuals might subscribe to a political newsletter,  the role of news aggregators in curating information, and what it's like to work in the Ottawa “fishbowl”.

Additional Resources:

• To learn more about the high-choice media environment, check out Wonks and War Rooms’ first episode: The High-Choice Media Environment with Jane Lytvynenko.
• Nick mentions how newsletters are an old medium that are being updated to stay fresh and trendy. For some background on the history of the newsletter, consult The Newsletter Boom, 300 Years before Substack.
• Nick provides examples of how the unmediated and relational nature of newsletters allows him to cultivate a direct relationship with his subscribers. For an academic perspective on this, consult: Email Newsletters and the Changing Journalist-Audience Relationship. 
• Elizabeth and Nick talk about how audiences are increasingly seeking out journalists’ opinions on the news. For an example of this, consult The Rise of the Talking Journalist: Human Voice, Engagement, and Trust in Live Journalism Performance.
• Elizabeth and Nick discuss the parasocial relationship between the author and reader, for more details on parasocial relationships, check out the Wonks and War Rooms episode on Parasocial Relationships with T.X. Watson
• Elizabeth also mentions the blurring of the boundaries between political journalist and political pundit or social media influencer or columnist or opinion writer.  For more information about the difference between journalism and punditry, consult the article: Are pundits journalists?

Contributors

Host: Elizabeth Dubois
Research Lead: Mykenzie Barrera
Transcript: Michelle Rodrigues 
Audio Editing: Ayman Naciri
Translation: Els Thant & Helena Legault
Publishing and Promotion: Helena Legault 
Producer: Michelle Hennessey

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

In this episode, Elizabeth is joined by Conner Coles, a former lobbyist with experience working in and around politics, including during the political party candidate nomination process. Conner walks us through the issue of foreign interference in nomination races , how a lack of federal oversight in these contests exacerbates the problem, and the impact this can have on our democratic systems. Conner and Elizabeth dive into examples of foreign interference through news and government reports and discuss the implications of candidates being responsible for carrying the burden of foreign interference unknowingly. This episode closes with some of Conner’s recommendations for countering foreign interference  e at the nomination level.

Additional Resources:

• Conner mentions Michael Chong, A Conservative MP who was targeted by Beijing told a federal inquiry that Canada has become "a playground" for foreign interference.  
• Conner also mentions Micheal Chong’s testimony before the Foreign Interference Commission where Chong emphasized the need for more transparency.
• Conner and Elizabeth also discuss the 2019 case concerning former MPP Han Dong who won the Don Valley North riding despite misleading newsletters targeting Chinese-speaking residents.
• Elizabeth mentions recent reports on foreign interference in Canadian elections, including: 
  • The NSICOP Special Report on Foreign Interference in Canada’s Democratic Processes and Institutions
  • The Initial Report of the Public Inquiry into Foreign Interference in Federal Electoral Processes and Democratic Institutions, and
  • The First Report of the Independent Special Rapporteur  on Foreign Interference.
• Elizabeth and Conner also mention how foreign interference Is targeting diaspora Communities in Canada, including by threatening their families back home, particularly in countries like China, India, and Iran.
• As an example of one tool to improve Canada’s ability to counter foreign influence, Conner notes Bill C-377 (44-1), which, if passed, would formalize the process for parliamentarians to request a security clearance from the Government of Canada. 

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

In this episode, Elizabeth interviews Brazilian journalist and columnist Patrícia Campos Mello, who first exposed the illegal use of WhatsApp mass messaging in Brazil's 2018 presidential elections. Together, they examine how politically motivated groups orchestrate fake grassroots movements—known as astroturfing—to manipulate public opinion and influence media coverage. Patrícia shares Brazilian examples to highlight the evolution of these tactics, from mass messaging operations to highly coordinated content promotion strategies. They also delve into the ethical and regulatory challenges that astroturfing presents for democracy. 

Additional resources: 

• Elizabeth defines astroturfing based on Digital astroturfing in politics: Definition, typology, and countermeasures by Kovic et al. (2023) and Online astroturfing: A problem beyond disinformation by Chan (2024).
• For additional context on the 2018 Brazilian Presidential Elections, consult: Vox's explainer on Brazil's 2018 Presidential Elections 
• Patrícia discusses the tools and strategies used for mass messaging campaigns. For a more detailed explanation, consult: How WhatsApp is being abused in Brazil's elections 
• Patricia's original report exposing the illegal use of WhatsApp mass messaging practices is available in Portuguese with an English summary.
• Follow Patrícia on Instagram @patacamposmello and X @camposmello. 

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French. 

In this episode, Elizabeth Dubois chats with Melanie Paradis, President of Texture Communications, to dissect the theory of planned behaviour and its application in political communication. With Melanie’s extensive background in political strategy and public relations, and her roles on high-profile political campaigns, this discussion explores how psychological principles underpin effective political messaging and voter engagement strategies.

Additional Resources: 

• Elizabeth relies on The Theory of Planned Behaviour: Reactions and Reflections and Knowledge and the Prediction of Behavior: The Role of Information Accuracy in the Theory of Planned Behavior to explain the theory. 
• Melanie underlines the role of third-party advertising as it relates to elections and advocacy in Canada. You can learn more about this through an article published by Policy Options titled Third parties strive to become a driving force in elections. 
• Melanie describes the Conservative Party of British Columbia’s "I’m trying something new" advertisement, released in October 2024, as an example of an advertisement targeting swing voters.
• Throughout the episode, both Elizabeth and Melanie refer to foreign interference  and how misinformation and disinformation are impacting the Canadian political communications environment. Similar themes were discussed in the Wonks and War Rooms episode Propaganda, Government Comms, and Disinformation with Shuvaloy Majumdar. 
• Melanie makes several references to the 2017 Conservative Party of Canada leadership race, where Andrew Scheer beat 13 other candidates by a narrow margin. You can learn more about this leadership race, and the lessons learned from it, in Eric Grenier’s analysis titled What the 2017 Conservative leadership race told us about what it takes to win. 

Check out www.polcommtech.ca for annotated transcripts of this episode in English and French.