Guest: John Gaertner

Host: Dave Homewood

Recorded: 14th of September 2025

Published: 14th of September 2025

Duration: 1 hour 27 minutes, 58 seconds

John Gaertner has had a long career and life in aviation, working as a research assistant for the Smithsonian Institute’s National Air and Space Museum, as an airline clerk for TWA, and as the curator of the EAA Museum at Oshkosh, Wisconsin. He then went out on his own, rebuilding vintage aeroplanes.

His company, Blue Swallow Aviation, based at Free Union, Virginia, in the United States, has restored five Curtiss Jenny WWI biplanes to flying condition, and parts for many other aircraft, and parts for exhibitions.

Currently he is working on building several Avro 504Ks, one of which is using the remains of the original ex-New Zealand Permanent Air Force Avro 504K known as A201. This aircraft was the first of six Avros commissioned new for the NZPAF that entered service in 1925. It served with the Air Force till 1931, then was sold into private hands and entered the NZ Civil Register as ZK-ACN. It gained the nickname “Joybird”. It flew till the 1st of January 1940, when WWII forced most civil aircraft to stop flying. The remains of A201 ended up eventually with Stuart Tantrum of Blenheim, who was rebuilding A202. The latter was finished and returned to the air by Stuart, by which time it was now owned by The Vintage Aviator Collection. It still flies today at Masterton.

John has been working on A201 for a number of years and he intend to have it flying within the next 15 months. He talks about A201 and the legacy of the Avro 504 as a type, and about his interesting career in this interview.

John says, “It sounds corny but most people would not believe me regarding all the projects I have worked on. Museums, Exhibits, making plane parts, instruments, flying cloths … But its all true. Lots of interests and a desire to learn. Not to mention teach. We never touched on my creating an entire 2 year program of technical high school for Aviation Maintenance Technology. I enjoy projects. Start and a finish. I enjoy a challenge that other people don’t or can’t do.”

Quick Links:

• Blue Swallow Aviation LLC

• Blue Swallow Aviation LLC on Facebook

• John’s Avro 504 Site

• The Smithsonian Institute’s National Air and Space Museum

• The EAA Museum, Oshkosh

• Classic Aero Machining Services (CAMS) at Omaka, New Zealand

• Classic Aero Machining Services (CAMS) on Facebook

The music is Wild Flower by Joachim Karud.