Word on the Street

Agency Growth is the main topic here and this is a very tip heavy podcast, so make sure you have your pen and paper at the ready. Peter and Katie talk about lots of stats and facts surrounding new business and agencies, including just how agencies have really fared in the midst of a global pandemic! There is a debate around the dual challenge of creating growth while maintaining profitability and the subject of marketing agencies own marketing plans comes into the conversation too. 

In this episode we discuss:

• What is your measure of success?
• How to get your agency to work for you
• Agency growth and habits
• Consultancy vs Agencies
• Agency Profit
• Impact and Strategy

Word on the Street is sponsored by Tanba, The Agency New Business Academy, is a brand-new initiative aimed at equipping agencies of all sizes with the knowledge, content, partnerships and opportunities needed to accelerate agency growth by optimising their new business 'engine'. Tanba is an on-demand and affordable solution for agencies looking to upskill their team via training courses, content and insights delivered by our panel of industry experts, leaders, and partners.   

The academy is all about empowering agency teams to get noticed, attract opportunities, increase conversion rates, and reduce the costs associated with the sales process. Visit https://tanba.io/ to find out more and start empowering your agency. 

“49% saw fee income increase, which is incredible in the middle of a pandemic” - Peter Czapp [05:43]

“The most important thing for your agency is that your agency works for you” - Peter Czapp [07:36]

“If you are consistently growing by more than 50% year on year, so that means if you’re £500,000 agency you’ll do £750,000 next year and then another 50% year after, only 16% agencies manage to do that” - Peter Czapp [09:09]

“The real challenge is to achieve that level of growth, whilst also achieving a gross profit of 50% or more” - Peter Czapp [10:15]

“Much better to have an agency that is turning over £500,000 that is profiting, than it is to have £1 million agency with lots of staff and lots of stress that’s making 15% profit” - Katie Street [11:20]

“I heard a lot of agencies say; “we’re gonna go for growth and worry about profitability down the line”” - Peter Czapp [11:41]

“The absolute best leveler for profitability analysis is your gross profit percentage” - Peter Czapp [15:15]

“There is far too many agencies that are not thinking about value” - Peter Czapp [18:08]

“I’ve got to prove to my clients that I’m going to help them attract and win new clients for their business” - Katie Street [19:29]

“I personally believe you need to show impact and the commercial strategy” - Katie Street [21:11]

“What percentage of agencies are actually able to get the clients budget out of them” - Peter Czapp [26:03]

“There’s not enough agencies out there giving clients the choice when it comes top their proposals” - Peter Czapp [34:10]

“I love hearing the stories of agencies that are willing to step outside their comfort zone” - Peter Czapp [37:18]

“If you find yourself in a situation where you absolutely have to discount, it’s so important you get something in return” - Peter Czapp [43:28]

“One area that everyone seems to forget is their people” - Peter Czapp [46:14]

“On average agencies win new business worth 6 times their marketing spend” - Peter Czapp [55:54]

“If you are not spending money on your marketing, then please go and do so” - Katie Street [58:47}

Welcome to the new series of Word on the Street Podcast where we’re delighted to joined by Jody Osman and Richard McHardy to discuss best practises, ways to increase the efficiency of your new business activity and the exciting launch of our academy Tanba. In this episode we get heavy into tech - but it’s all very practical so don’t panic. We discuss an array of softwares and platforms that will help aid your agency with prospecting new clients and data hunting. We also delve a little into all our pasts and look at the experience that has led us to where we are now in the marketing world… what a trip down memory lane!  

In this episode we discuss:

• Helpful tech and how it can benefit your efficiency
• Platforms that can aid your prospecting and data hunting
• What is Tanba and how is it going to help you?
• Understanding business development
• How to work on new business relationships
• The pressure on the new business teams

Word on the Street is sponsored by Tanba, The Agency New Business Academy, is a brand-new initiative aimed at equipping agencies of all sizes with the knowledge, content, partnerships and opportunities needed to accelerate agency growth by optimising their new business 'engine'. Tanba is an on-demand and affordable solution for agencies looking to upskill their team via training courses, content and insights delivered by our panel of industry experts, leaders, and partners.   

The academy is all about empowering agency teams to get noticed, attract opportunities, increase conversion rates, and reduce the costs associated with the sales process. Visit https://tanba.io/ to find out more and start empowering your agency. 

“Being reactive and in control of a call and getting a call to where it needs to get in an alarming situation to an end” - Richard McHardy [17:47]

“Over the years I guess technology has increased exponentially in terms of what we can do and what we can use” - Jody Osman [20:40]

“We’ve all talked about starting in sales and loving it, but I think sometimes people associate sales as someone giving you the hard pitch” - Jody Osman [21:27]

“Often, I’ve found that a lot of agencies, for example a lot of our work, is setting up appointments and meetings, but actually it’s absolutely key that we keep an eye on the next stages” - Jody Osman [22:35]

“It’s very important to get very focused insights around the companies you’re targeting” - Jody Osman [24:40]

“A lot of the traditional technologies were built for big companies and they don’t service SMEs” - Katie Street [27:00]

We are building a marketplace in Tanba that just showcases the best of those service providers” - Richard McHardy [30:51]

“Ring those CMO’s and ask them what’s going on in their market” - Richard McHardy [36:28]

“When you’re winning clients is actually the best time to really be throwing yourself at new business” - Jody Osman [38:32]

“In the world of new business it’s not just keeping your marketing and new business sales tactics going” - Katie Street [41:08]

“From the point of opportunity, to actually winning it and then actually recognising money, it’s usually around 3 months, sometimes longer” - Katie Street [41:42]

“We found that at certain agencies, we had one where it was really exciting, we kept getting them on pitch lists, but it was always a last minute pitchlist and their conversion rate wasn’t so great” - Jody Osman [43:47]

“The challenge always is I think for new business people we’re generally target driven” - Jody Osman [48:08]

“I think there’s one element that often gets overlooked, it’s the ability to project manage within new business” - J

Welcome to "Word on the Street", the podcast to help marketing agencies break through the noise, attract attention and win more business. 

In Season 4 your host, Katie Street, will be interviewing agency owners that are changing the game, marketing teams that are implementing new strategies to inspire you and experts from the big brands you want to gain inside knowledge of exactly what they want and expect from an agency.

As always in this series of the show, we'll hear from those that are leading the way and discuss tactics and strategies your agency can implement straight away to develop your own growth. 

Check out this short trailer to get a flavour of the amazing content, guests and insights you can expect from Season 4 of the show. 

Word on the Street is sponsored by Tanba, The Agency New Business Academy, is a brand-new initiative aimed at equipping agencies of all sizes with the knowledge, content, partnerships and opportunities needed to accelerate agency growth by optimising their new business 'engine'. Tanba is an on-demand and affordable solution for agencies looking to upskill their team via training courses, content and insights delivered by our panel of industry experts, leaders, and partners.   

The academy is all about empowering agency teams to get noticed, attract opportunities, increase conversion rates, and reduce the costs associated with the sales process. Visit https://tanba.io/ to find out more and start empowering your agency. 

In this episode we have somewhat of a ‘case study’ with one of our clients Jamie Willey from Tribal and we’re also joined by Andrew Nicholson from our sponsor Kulea. We enjoy a laugh and a wine whilst we talk through Jamie and Andrew’s experiences in growing their business through generating and converting leads.

We talk about how the global pandemic, albeit a tragic event, has actually helped the digital economy and the associated marketing industries around it, with many businesses pivoting online.

We talk through the synergy (often the forgotten grey area) between sales and marketing for your business and we share - through the experiences of the last year - when was and wasn’t the right time to sell to clients.

In a slightly strange twist we end up comparing agencies to dating on tinder through to marriage and we discuss the importance of being widely seen sharing how it can result in business from sectors you never thought about targeting.

We also touch on various valuable marketing software automation systems, examining just how they make the whole process of lead generation and nurturing potential clients so much easier, so that your time is spent more effectively and efficiently.

This episode includes:

• Building strong relationships with clients
• Utilising systems such as Kulea to automate relationship building
• Using your time more effectively on the right type of client
• Attracting new business
• Pivoting business during the Pandemic
• Personalisation at scale

Links & References

Katie Street: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/

Connect with Jamie Willey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-willey-27542039/

https://www.tribalworldwide.co.uk/

Connect with Andrew Nicholson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/digitalmarketingdiva/

https://kulea.ma/

“The platform alone is not enough, it’s everything that exists in that ecosystem around the platform.” - Andrew Nicholson [17:43]

“You don’t build a 12 month pipeline by just firing out sales emails” - Andrew Nicholson [19:17]

“In my experience especially owners of businesses, CEO’s, agencies, they bring in a hot shot new biz guy who they thinks got the silver bullet” - Jamie Willey [20:03]

“It’s all about having conversations; it’s all about having dialogues” - Andrew Nicholson [24:07]

“Clients don’t want to pitch either now” - Jamie Willey [25:10]

“It’s a really great way to think of new business, if you think of it like, the dating process” - Katie Street [28:09]

“Personalisation and automation are two sides of the same coin. You can’t have personalisation at scale without automation.” - Andrew Nicholson [34:23]

“This is a very difficult thing to achieve with your current clients… Advocacy.” - Jamie Willey [35:39]

“Don’t be afraid to ask your clients to recommend you” - Katie Street [39:01]

“You need to be accessible, you need to be there” - Andrew Nicholson [45:52]

“We’re not just going out bullishly, just pumping out ‘oh talk to us, talk to us, talk to us’” - Jamie Willey [51:05]

“Just start to do something, because if you don’t, you’re never gonna’ build that audience” - Katie Street [1:01:12]

“If you’re starting off fresh with your marketing message, start with that message; how can I deliver value? How can I help? - Andrew Nicholson [1:01:54]

Content, content, content - it’s all we seem to talk about in this new multi-media, multi-platform, multi-audience based world isn’t it! But there’s a reason why you hear common phrases like ‘Content Is King’ so regularly and that’s because it really is imperative to your mission to get this stuff right! Having said how important content is, we also need to be aware that the constant and consistent pressure of creation, repurposing and syndication of said content, to all corners of the planet, can feel like a full time job in and of itself, right!? Fear not, as in this episode we are bringing you the wisdom and insights of the fabulous Katy Howell, who shares a ton of value on the subject. Katy highlights how she is able to continually produce large volumes of content through the use of the ‘shattered content’ technique, without it becoming overwhelming and daunting.

We talk about how important it is to build a team who aren’t clones of you, who hold a variety of skill sets. The importance of not ‘turning the tap off and how to keep churning out content consistently to be able to build an engaged audience. Thinking of your content with a tunnel mentality to be able to bring people down your funnel and ultimately convert them.

In this podcast we cover:

• Making blogging less painful
• Allowing creative freedom of content
• 'Shatter’ Content
• Creation and scheduling content
• Content Strategy
• Agency Fame

Links & References
Katie Street: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/

Connect with Katy Howell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katyhowell/
https://immediatefuture.co.uk/

“I see the risks, I see the danger... and then I just get on with it.” - Katy Howell [09:23]

“You need to have a range of different qualities and skills within that team” - Katy Street [11:58]

“We pick ourselves up, you can’t knock me down as they say.” - Katy Howell [13:38]

“The problem is when you’re very small and you’ve just started, referrals are everything” - Katy Howell [20:54]

“You can actually make it look like a very big 6 month project, or you can break it into smaller parts that are very manageable” - Katy Howell [23:56]

“One piece of content being cut up and broken down, but it’s also thinking about the follow up, thinking of your marketing a bit more like a funnel” - Katy Howell [29:53]

“Agency fame makes a huge difference because it opens doors” - Katy Howell [31:20]

 “I think most agency owners underestimate, is how much they know about the job they do” - Katy Howell [ 36:06]

“If you asked me what is working right now in new business, my answer would be one word…” - Katy Howell [40:27]

“Talking to people is bloody exhausting…” - Katy Howell [42:18]

“People talk about it as Avengers Assemble don’t they, you need people with totally different magical skills” - Katie Street [42:55]

“You can’t get more intimate than being in the palm of someone's hand, which we are with social media.” - Katy Howell [46:09]

“The biggest failure with paid social is doing a one-off or a 1 week trail on something” - Katy Howell [48:35]

“First of all, you’ve got to position the problem and you’ve got to really make sure you’re articulating how you are the right solution” - Katie Street [51:43]

“Look you should be posting once or twice a day as a rule, BUT those are not the right metrics to measure.” - Katie Street [56:46]

“Don’t write to many, write to one.” - Katy Howell [1:00:15]

Sales… even reading that word made you think (maybe even feel!) something didn’t it!? The love or hate of sales is so frequently discussed, but what you hear much less frequently is practical tactics on how to make selling easier and even enjoyable. As marketing agency owners we need to be able to sell; regardless of how good the ‘marketing’ part is done, at some point you need to pitch your proposition and ask for fair exchange of value in the form of a fee. Like it or not, sales makes the world go round… so we’d better get better, right!  

Today we talk to Matt King and get an insight into his very unique views and beliefs on what it takes to sell. How do you increase your chances to make sales, why does Matt have an ethos of being an ethical salesman and how can growing social following and social proof improving your selling ability. Matt is the Founder of Sales Change which is a sales coaching service. So if you as a company or an individual are struggling in terms of building your sales, then Matt is the man you need. Matt helps people work on everything from overcoming objections, all the way through to full business sales planning for multi-million pound companies. 

We cover so much in this episode including:

• How you sales people should view themselves
• What it takes to create sales
• Why selling is at becoming a solution provider
• How to set a “go-to market” strategy
• How Matt taught himself to gain followers
• Mistakes Matt made along his journey
• Tips to grow an Instagram following which is a powerful social proof tool
• Going deeper in your pitch conversations
• Links & References

Katie Street: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/

Connect with Matt King: https://www.linkedin.com/in/immattking/

“I think people are scared of that word “sales” for some reason which, probably in my past I have been, I’m certainly not now, but it’s almost looked upon as a dirty word” - Katie Street [06:32]

“Sales can be a dirty word if you’re trying to sell to people who don’t need what you’re selling” - Matt King [06:52]

“Sales people are solution providers, that’s it…” - Matt King [07:52]

“Sales is a very niche’ word, sales doesn’t take into account that you also need to be an excellent networker, you have to know how to build relationships with people.” - Matt King [08:34]

“Having a separate sales team, to a client relations team. Pays dividends like you wouldn’t believe.” - Matt King [16:17]

“It’s a lot easier to try and sell yourself if you’ve already done it.” - Matt King [22:00]

“Having the correct mindset when you go into a prospect meeting or pick up a call, having that confidence you can do it yourself and you’ve proved you can do it for hundreds of clients, having that when you go into a call is massively, massively important.” - Matt King [26:57]

“New business people suffer rejection and understand what they have to do to get to the next stage” - Matt King [29:41]

“In the old days of agency you walk straight into a pitch or presentation and you go in telling them about yourself… You must, must, must listen first!” - Katie Street [33:51]

“Show up consistently and have a value based post” - Matt King [42:45]

“This isn’t a quick win, new business, sales, you’ve got to keep going, you’ve got to keep showing up everyday.” - Katie Street [47:14]

“I hate the word cold calling, because you should pre-qualify the clients” - Matt King [52:21]

Relationships, often discussed but how often are they actually given the focus that they deserve, in this episode we talk about how important relationships can be and how - as an agency - you can even still benefit from the work you turn away. Our guest in the hot seat for this episode is Jim Hawker, Co-Founder and Sales and Marketing Director about the acquisition of ThreePipe and how that allowed them to expand, we talk about tech, processes, systems, softwares and suggestions, funnels and strategies. Threepipe works with a mix of ambitious start-ups and some of the best known consumer and business brands including Sweaty Betty, the NFL, Nike, Oracle, VTech, Nestle and Hotels.com. In today's episode we talk about the acquisition of ThreePipe and how that allowed for expansion, we discuss tech, processes, systems, softwares and suggestions, funnels and strategies…. Plus those all important relationships. 

This Episode covers:

• Ethics of being genuinely helpful
• Amazon partnerships & how it helped ThreePipe Reply Expand
• What is a digital shelf & how it can be utilised
• Importance of not standing still
• How ThreePipe Reply gained a competitive advantage
• Client management and tracking
• Smart links, what are they and how they work
• CRM & Reporting Software
• Having confidence in your offering
  
  Links & References

Katie Street: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/

Jim Hawker: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimhawker/

Jim Hawker

Founder, Investor, Trustee : https://threepipereply.com/

Get in touch: [email protected]

“And so we were kind of forced into having deeper relationships with other agencies and different channels” - Jim Hawker [09:13]

“The journey from 25 upwards to 80 or 90, was that partially because of the acquisition or did you grow to that stage before you did any MNA?” - Katie Street [12:28]

“Whenever I’ve been in post as a new biz director, you want to look at the movers and shakers, who are the marketing directors on the move… - Katie Street [18:10]

“Back in 2019 we invested quite a lot of time and money into creating a new Digital Shelf team - Jim Hawker [22:53]

“We’ve always been afraid of standing still really and always wanting to constantly innovate” - Jim Hawker [25:55]

“I’ve just never wanted just to be a typical agency” - Jim Hawker [26:03]

“By not being scared and understanding that you need some kind of uniqueness is, that you take yourself away and out of that price war that agencies often get into” - Katie Street [27:04]

“I think a lot of it is actually having confidence in your own offer and knowing that there are good clients out there and there are bad clients” - Jim Hawker [27:47]

"One thing we’ve spent a lot of time on is good client management and client tracking. Especially in our industry, we’re seeing clients move around faster than ever before” - Jim Hawker [31:52]

“The work we do is quite performance lead as an agency, it’s all about data and numbers…” - Jim Hawker [38:10]

“I have to say after you have worked in the industry for like 20 years, you have quite a good gut instinct as well” - Jim Hawker [49:18]

“You’ve gotta have confidence, I think this is where you need a short, medium, long term strategy to new business” - Jim Hawker [53:11]

Software and code is at the heart of everything. It’s changing business and society like never before and today on the podcast we bring you a conversation about how the latest tech and ways of working gives businesses and brands the edge that every company wants. We are joined by Chief for Business Development Will Sargeant from AND which is a game-changing company that partners with ambitious companies to accelerate digital capabilities. AND have a unique model which bridges the digital skills gap by creating cross-functional teams called a squad and ‘clubs’ with 100 team members who work on a maximum of 8-12 different clients. Their ethos is to guide, build and teach in order to give client businesses an advantage across technology, product and people.

This Episode covers:

• Recommendations and referral business via employee mindset
• Having a singular niche can kill your business
• The evolution of tech from outsourcing afar to local
• Why technology is crucial in the sustainability of business
• Business/client relationships and ethics mindset
• A unique business model that keeps the care and dedication of a small business, whilst running as a big business
• The Hyper Growth Model

Links & References

Katie Street: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/

Will Sargeant: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-sargeant-44584218/

Will Sargeant, Chief for Business Development at AND: https://and.digital

Get in touch: [email protected]

“We align clients with one club” - Will Sargeant [07:36]

“If an engineer has a problem, 450 engineers will come back with an answer” - Will Sargeant [08:15]

“Long gone are the days where agencies go away and do the work” - Katie Street [10:31]

“The story of the hedgehog and the fox” - Will Sargeant [13:10]

I’m very clear about being honest upfront” - Will Sargeant [17:51]

“I think we’ve niche’d in a different lens” - Will Sargeant [20:03]

“If you are working with retail you probably don’t have a business now” - Will Sargeant [20:36]

“I don’t think people want to pay to be flogged to” - Will Sargeant [21:49]

“I think technology will be at the heart” - Will Sargeant [23:42]

“15 Years ago they said we should get a website” - Will Sargeant [24:04]

“It was too macro” - Will Sargeant [27:58]

“To create a product to help people travel” - Will Sargeant [30:29]

“If you’re doing something different” - Will Sargeant [32:58]

"A lot of people don’t want to work with a faceless company” - Will Sargeant [36:14]

“Do you ask your employees to recommend you?” - Katie Street [38:15]

“If you’re not getting the right level of opportunities” - Katie Street [43:34]

How Agencies Can Win Without Pitching, with Blair Enns 

The agency world is seen as very fast-paced, very creative, very innovative and very forward-thinking but, as you will hear in this deep-dive conversation between Katie Street and Blair Enns, the same can’t be said for how marketers sell their services. 

The infamous world of intricate, costly and time-sapping pitching for business has long been the way that the industry ‘sells’ itself, but have you ever stopped to think why? More importantly, when was the last time you stepped back to assess that there could be a better way to create sales for your business. 

Blair Enns - CEO of Win Without Pitching - is the world renowned author of ‘The Win Without Pitching Manifesto’ and ‘Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour’. As one of the industry’s leading thought-leaders on agency sales Blair has taken his contrarian views on how selling works and turned that into a methodology that can lead to agencies focusing on taking back the power within a pitch and, ultimately, helps teams to secure more profitable client relationships.  

   This episode covers:   

• Why environment is so important to be able to do what you do

• Asking for concessions in the sale 

• How to leverage agency sales rules in your favour 

• How essential it is to be seen as ‘meaningfully different’ 

• Why 10% price increases don’t always add to increased profits 

• Why standardising and systeming prices across agencies is a mistake 
  
  
  
• Understanding that productised and customised agency business models need to grow apart  

Word on the Street is sponsored by Kulea.ma, the default Business Development and Marketing Automation platform for agencies and their clients. To learn more about Kulea’s Business development and marketing services and technology, visit www.kulea.ma

Links & references

Katie Street: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/

Blair Ennis https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/

Grab a copy of Blair’s brilliant book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blair-Enns/e/B003XCI2BG/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1

Get in touch: [email protected]

I couldn’t do what I do, with the point of view that I have if i lived in New York or London - Blair Enns [12:10]

Clients need to be ‘educated’ in how to engage with agencies to get the best out of them, because I don’t think the pitch environment necessarily showcases the truth of an agency - Katie Street [21:10]

Business development is just code for selling, let’s call it what it is - Blair Enns [23:10]

Highly creative people love to pitch - Blair Enns [24:10] 

You reclaim the power in the agency relationship through the positioning of your firm - Blair Enns [31:15]

If you’re the hot ‘shop’ of the day, you have power in that moment but you have to understand that power is not going to last - Blair Enns [31:50]

They’re taking too many of their cues for how to run their businesses, including pricing, from productised service businesses - Blair Enns [52:45]

Procurement has long been overlooked within the marketing sector, but the recent global shutdown and the - almost - overnight change in how we do business showed just how important it is to be able have a speedy and agile procurement process in place. And who better to explain just how vital the specialism is for the marketing world than Tina Fegent who, with 25 years experience, is one of the countries leading experts.

Tina established many of the first Marketing Procurement teams in the UK and there isn't a category of marketing that she hasn’t procured. In 2006 she set up Tina Fegent Consulting to offer a Marketing Procurement Consultancy service to clients. Recent clients have included Amazon, SSE, PepsiCo, Halfords, Imperial Tobacco, Checkatrade, P&O Ferries and Aldi.

This episode covers:   

* Why procurement is such a vital part of the agency ecosystem

* If you pitch marketing agencies - you need to target procurement as part of your sales strategy

* How procurement usually works within agencies

* How to approach procurement in order to sell to them

* The power of creating specific events if you're looking to open doors with procurement teams at agencies

* What shifts procurement is seeing now that the focus of protecting business from the pandemic is calming down

* Why recent situations have shown that speed and agility are right at the top of the procurement essentials list

* What will happen if clients are going to expect work-from-home overhead reductions to be reflected in agency pricing

Word on the Street is sponsored by Kulea.ma, the default Business Development and Marketing Automation platform for agencies and their clients. To learn more about Kulea’s Business development and marketing services and technology, visit www.kulea.ma

Links & references
Katie Street: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestreet/

Tina Fegent https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-fegent-fcips-2103573/

Tina Fegent Marketing Procurement and Consulting https://tinafegent.com/

Get in touch: [email protected]


"The press didn't help sometimes because you did see some poor action, which was then exemplified and you had people jumping on the bandwagon, but everyone has learned from it  [11:30] 

Procurement is a target market for new business and also for long term growth as well [12:05] 


I think procurement is going to play more of an important role as we go to better ethics, which is what sustainability is about; looking at your supply chain and D & I to make sure you've got that balance  
[15:30]  

Sometimes the problem with procurement is we just see the tactical end of marketing, we don't see the other steps 
[20:50]

Doing a little bit of market research makes all the difference. If you're looking for a procurement person, why not look them up on LinkedIn, it's such an obvious thing. It's those things that do make all the difference 
[25:40] 

There was a study done by Accenture last year which said that procurement, as a whole, has been really slow to adopt digitisation 
[27:55]

There's lots of systems out there, I think you'll start to see consolidation of those [29:15] 

I think on the on-going management of suppliers and agencies you'll start to see more AI and technology being used 
[30:35]

Profile, that's what a lot of agencies fall down on 
[35:25]