In this clip from Working to Work episode 13, I speak with Nanette Mellor, a charity CEO who has worked at Drake Music, the Brain Charity, Mencap, and other organisations supporting disabled individuals. Nanette shared how job tailoring and job carving—innovative practices that allow roles to be customised for individual strengths—benefit neurodivergent individuals and those with disabilities.

While these practices are designed with inclusivity in mind, they also offer wider applications that may benefit non-disabled individuals by enhancing productivity and job satisfaction through personalised job roles.

Nanette's interview with Eric Pines (referenced in the piece): https://medium.com/authority-magazine/neurodiversity-in-the-workforce-nanette-mellor-of-drake-music-on-why-its-important-to-include-dd46f7af503a

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In this second part of my interview with charity CEO, Nanette Mellor (Brain Charity, Drake Music, Mencap) we discuss how to hire in ways that accommodate common neurodivergent needs, and practices to create a work culture that allows a diverse workforce to thrive including job tailoring, and carving. Chapters below:

Nanette's interview with Eric Pines: https://medium.com/authority-magazine/neurodiversity-in-the-workforce-nanette-mellor-of-drake-music-on-why-its-important-to-include-dd46f7af503a

Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section.

For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk

Chapters:

00:00 coming up

00:35 episode intro

06:05: intro to nanette and her work

07:56 job interview challenges and strategies to mitigate

21:25 biases in hiring process

26:12 the bias of algorithms

28:30 what is job tailoring?

33:48 hiring is a skill to develop

35:58 what is job carving?

43:23: creating neuroinclusive workspaces

47:16 redundant workplace policies

50:24: creating an inclusive culture as a leader

For this episode I spoke with Nanette Mellor, a disability and neurodiversity specialist, most recently working as a CEO of Drake Music, about their work championing neurodivergent strengths.Our conversation touches on how neurodivergent differences might be better understood and catered to in education; what diagnosis might look like in the future; and whether some of the skills historically considered essential are as crucial in the 21st century.

We also spoke about the impact of AI for neurodivergent people in the workplace, how common neurodivergent strengths like creative thinking and becoming more valued, and about Nanettes own journey through employment, the challenges and strengths of being dyslexic, and how challenging convention can lead to resistance even in leadership positions. Chapters are below.

Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section.

For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk

Chapters

00:00 Coming up in this episode

00:42 Sam intro

04:22 Introduction to Nanette

08:23 Neurodivergent specific schooling 

13:19 Are exams still worthwhile?

16:33 AI can’t think like a neurodivergent mind

19:15 Creating better education outcomes for ND people

23:26 Is ‘diagnosis’ necessary to get needs met?

28:38 Are essential skills still essential?

34:56 The benefits of creating thinking

41:06 Benefits of dyslexia to Nanette

45:12 Whether to disclose at work or not

48:30 Is it possible to be an authentic leader?

51:20 Challenges in a neurotypical workplace

54:05 Strengths that make Nanette a leader

Links

The article mentioned in the intro is an interview Nanette gave to Eric Pines titled “Neurodiversity in the Workforce”. It can be found here: https://medium.com/authority-magazine/neurodiversity-in-the-workforce-nanette-mellor-of-drake-music-on-why-its-important-to-include-dd46f7af503a

I spoke with autism researcher Professor Anna Remington, Director of CRAE at UCL, about the notion of 'perceptual capacity'. The discussion covered what perceptual capacity is, its significance to neurodivergent people (spoiler: many autistic people have a high perceptual capacity), and how understanding and working with one's perceptual capacity can help improve effectiveness and mitigate challenges associated with increased sensory sensitivities. Chapters and links are below.

Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section.

For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk

Chapters:

00:00 Coming up

01:00 Episode intro

05:05 Introduction to Anna, and the work CRAE does

06:05 What is perceptual capacity and how does it relate to neurodivergence?

15:15 Finding the right level of sensory input for individuals

17:54 Individuals and employers recognising benefits of increased perceptual capacity

20:29 Identifying the type of work that suits one’s perceptual capacity

23:20 Perceptual Capacity is a cognitive function

25:09 What’s being done to increase awareness of perceptual capacity?

29:46 Challenges with a high perceptual capacity in work

30:58 Advantages to having a higher perceptual capacity in work

32:33 What might one look for in a job listing that suits high perceptual capacity?

36:42 Load theory and the road to understanding perceptual capacity 

40:01 Can one control the extent of their perceptual capacity?

41:55 How does perceptual capacity relate to flow?

42:55 Can shifts in language change how society views differences?

45:40 Might perceptual capacity become a way to speak more accurately to experience?

52:41 Episode outro

Links:

‘A storm of post-it notes’: Experiences of perceptual capacity in autism and ADHD: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10187561/

Anxiety overrides the blocking effects of high perceptual load on amygdala reactivity to threat-related distractors: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21376745/

Not so fast: Rethinking the effects of action video games on attentional capacity: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-9536.2011.00001.x

I can see clearly now: the effects of age and perceptual load on inattentional blindness: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00229/full

Professor Anna Remington, Director at the Centre for Research in Autism and Education (CRAE) at University College London the notion of Perceptual Capacity, its relevance to neurodivergent people, and it's roots in Nilli Lavie's 'Load Theory'.

Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section.

For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk