Remember the Chinese spy balloon? Since then, we’ve seen leaked Pentagon spy documents on Discord and the discovery of fake Chinese police stations used for surveillance in the U.S. The line between espionage and everyday surveillance/data collection is more blurred than ever, thanks to the integration of technology into our daily lives. All of us are walking pieces of data being gobbled up and analyzed by spy agencies around the world. All of this spy news is a reminder of how high the stakes are, and how little we really know about the global fight for information. Audie talks with CNN Anchor and Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto, and former FBI intelligence official Javed Ali about what can spy balloons, leaked documents, and AI tell us about the state of spying today. 

Jim Sciutto is co-anchor of “CNN News Central” weekday afternoons from 1 to 4. His latest book is “The Shadow War: Inside Russia's and China's Secret Operations to Defeat America.” 

Javed Ali is an associate professor of practice at the Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy at the University of Michigan. 

Thanks to the Hayden Center at George Mason University for letting us use audio from their panel on “Counterintelligence Today.” 

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