Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome

Today's guest Elle Griffin set out to query her gothic novel and, in the process, made some disappointing discoveries about the publishing industry that led her to serialize it on Substack. In this episode from the archives, Elle shares her journey down this unconventional path that definitely has some upsides, like making $19K her first year on Substack and retaining the rights to her work. Elle also explains why Anne Lamott's shitty first draft advice does not work for her, what it's been like writing her second serialized novel as she's publishing it, and more. Elle is the author of the gothic novel Obscurity and the utopian novel called Oblivion. Subscribe to Elle's Substack, The Elysian, which has gone through a rebrand since we spoke. 

*If you're an aspiring or indie podcaster, subscribe to the Podcast Bestie Substack: https://podcastbestie.substack.com/welcome

The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com.

Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:

• Land Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
• The Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
• How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
• Podcasting for Writers: How to Start, Sustain & Grow Your Podcast: https://writingworkshops.com/products/podcasting-for-writers-how-to-start-sustain-grow-your-podcast-4-week-zoom-workshop