Carly and CeCe are back for another Shooting the Shit. This week they are talking about the unexpected work literary agents do behind the scenes—from tracking book availability and rights reversions to using sales data to advocate for authors. They also dig into Spotify opening AI-powered audiobook narration to all authors and what increasing automation could mean for writers, narrators, readers, and the human side of storytelling. Plus, Carly shares the book she can’t stop talking about, while CeCe reveals the manuscript that already has her plotting the perfect pitch.

As mentioned on the podcast:

https://authors.spotify.com/blog/creationtools?mc_cid=8d36cc232e&mc_eid=f61c809461

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

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Bestselling author Isabel Allende joins CeCe Lyra for an incredible interview that touches on storytelling, creativity, and the writing life. From the difference between writing and storytelling to the power of discipline, research, dreams, and solitude, Isabel shares the lessons she's learned over a lifetime of crafting unforgettable novels. They also discuss magical realism, overcoming self-doubt, trusting the creative process, and why every writer should protect their writing time as fiercely as their stories.

Stay tuned for part two! Bestselling author Jodi Picoult connects with fellow bestselling author Bianca Marais to share her approach to crafting unforgettable novels, from building stories around irresistible "what if" questions to conducting months of immersive research before writing a single page. She discusses plotting twist-filled narratives, creating compelling characters readers can't leave behind, weaving timelines with purpose, and why emotional tension matters more than explosive openings. Plus, Jodi reflects on revisiting beloved characters, trusting the writing process, and the surprises that emerge even after decades of storytelling.

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

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Carly and CeCe are back! This week they tackle what’s shifting in the book world—from immersive audiobooks becoming a “movie between your ears” to bookstores proving that reading and community are very much alive. They also discuss the decline of nonfiction, why readers may be turning to other ways to learn, and what it means for authors and publishing.

As mentioned on this episode:

https://defector.com/what-do-booksellers-make-of-the-end-of-reading?giftLink=73a5c6e0b00

https://dearheadofmine.substack.com/p/the-nonfiction-book-market-is-collapsing?r=h5j0&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

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Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com\

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This week's Books with Hooks welcomes special guest and acquiring editor Kirsiah Depp. Together with CeCe and Bianca, she critiques two fantasy queries, shares what makes a query stand out in today's crowded market, explains why blockbuster comps can hurt your pitch, and dives into opening pages that balance worldbuilding, atmosphere, plot, and emotional momentum. If you're querying fantasy—or any commercial fiction—you won't want to miss this one.

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

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Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com

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* Check out The Comprehensive Copywriting Academy and use my code thecca.co/tspodcast for a great deal: https://thecca.co
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Carly and CeCe are back to Shoot the Shit about the money behind publishing—and why getting published doesn’t mean the hard part is over. They dig into why an author’s second advance might be smaller than their first, the complicated relationship between effort and outcome, and why publishing sits at the messy intersection of art, passion, and business. Then, Carly and CeCe unpack new research on library e-lending and what the rise of ebooks could mean for consumer book sales. Plus, their thoughts on fall submission season, writing with AI, and why there is no magical “champagne room” waiting for writers once they make it.

As mentioned on the podcast:

https://theweekendrant.substack.com/p/when-literary-agents-become-public

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/libraries/article/101167-study-says-library-e-book-lending-hurts-industry-sales.html?mc_cid=5b955f044e&mc_eid=92846a4ddc

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

Find us on our socials:

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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TSNOTYAW

Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com

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Author Elizabeth Urso and her editor Alex Brown of Rising Action Publishing join Bianca Marais to talk about the journey behind Hail Mary, a dark, visceral thriller steeped in family secrets, generational trauma, and Gothic horror. They chat about Elizabeth’s unconventional path to publication, crafting a prologue that immediately grabs—and unsettles—the reader, knowing your genre audience, and why horror is having such a moment in publishing. 

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

Find us on our socials:

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@the_shit_about_writing

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_shit_about_writing/

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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TSNOTYAW

Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com

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To sign up for our Substack newsletter, head to https://theshitaboutwriting.substack.com

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In part one this August bonus episode, Bianca connects with bestselling author Ann Garvin to unpack the craft behind her suspense novel, Tell to Friends. They dive into building tension from page one, planting curiosity seeds that keep readers turning pages, writing unforgettable dual POVs, and making every scene work harder. Ann also shares why she shelved this novel for nearly a decade before the publishing world was finally ready for its unique blend of suspense, humor, and heart.

Stay tuned! Jennifer Michelle Herrera returns to the podcast to talk about her new novel, Siren Says, and her leap from thriller to fantasy. She shares how grief shaped the book’s themes of magic, wonder, and resilience, and how extensive research into botany and Welsh folklore helped bring its world to life. Jennifer also gets into the craft behind the novel—from finding the right opening and using outside readers to writing immersive scenes, sharp dialogue, and simmering sexual tension. Those of you interested in attending the All About Fantasy Virtual Retreat will want to get a sneak peek as Jennifer is one of the featured speakers!

In the third interview of our August bonus episode, Bianca sits down with bestselling author Candice Carty-Williams to explore the return of Queenie, writing beautifully flawed protagonists, and why imperfect characters resonate so deeply with readers. They discuss crafting authentic character arcs, balancing humour with emotional depth, building unforgettable friendships on the page, and creating scenes that reveal character while moving the story forward. Plus, Candice shares how she landed her agent, why planning can only take a story so far, and how letting characters surprise you often leads to the best fiction.

Last but not least, award-winning author and creative writing professor Laurie Petrou joins Bianca to discuss her latest novel, The Rayburn Affair, and the freedom—and strategy—behind writing across genres. She shares why contests can be game-changing for unpublished writers and why timing can play such a huge role in an author’s career. Laurie also chats about the importance of craft, including building a slow burn, cranking up tension and stakes during revision, choosing the right POV, and why your early drafts don’t need to get everything right.

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

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Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com

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On this week's Books with Hooks, Carly, CeCe, and Bianca discuss two compelling submissions: a queer reality TV romance and a dark psychological thriller. They break down what makes a standout query letter, the importance of differentiating your comps, why your opening pages need the right disruption, and how character dynamics, curiosity, and specificity can make or break a manuscript request. Plus, an exciting announcement about a new Books with Hooks format featuring acquiring editors.

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

Find us on our socials:

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@the_shit_about_writing

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Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com

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Carly and CeCe are back for another Shooting the Shit, talking about that gut-level feeling that makes an agent know they’ve found something special—and why a great premise still has to deliver all the way through. The literary agents also tackle the latest publishing scams targeting writers, AI watermarking and transparency, and the growing tension around publishers using AI in parts of the business. Plus, they dig into the “put-down, pick-up test”.

As mentioned on the podcast (please copy and paste the URL into your browser):

https://janefriedman.com/after-editing-two-ai-assisted-manuscripts-i-rewrote-my-client-agreement/

https://andibartz.substack.com/p/publishing-is-under-a-full-fledged?r=h5j0&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer

https://dearheadofmine.substack.com/p/submissions-redux-red-yellow-and?r=h5j0&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

Find us on our socials:

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@the_shit_about_writing

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Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com

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Our Sponsors:
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In part one of this week’s packed episode Bianca Marais chats with thriller powerhouse Hank Phillippi Ryan, they unpack the craft behind ‘Mother, Daughter, Sister, Stranger’, from writing an unforgettable prologue to building relentless suspense through curiosity, ticking clocks, and emotional stakes. Hank shares why panic is an essential part of her writing process, how reading ambitious novels pushes her to take bigger creative risks, and why grounding readers in a character's emotional journey is the key to making every twist land.

Next up is Laura Moriarty to discuss the craft behind ‘Sunlight Finds You’, exploring how voice can carry an opening without a traditional hook, why switching from third person to first person transformed the novel, and how a retrospective narrator creates powerful opportunities for foreshadowing. They also dive into historical research, layering exposition naturally, and using hindsight to add emotional weight to a coming-of-age story that lingers long after the final page.

Last but not least is in part three of this packed episode is New York Times bestselling author Linwood Barclay joins Bianca Marais to talk thrillers, twists, and keeping readers hooked. Linwood breaks down his “somewhere in the middle” approach to plotting, why his stories often begin with a killer “what if?”, and how TV taught him to treat chapter endings like commercial breaks. Plus, they dig into breaking writing rules, avoiding backstory overload, creating curiosity from page one, and why what characters do and say matters more than what they look like.

Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.

Find us on our socials:

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@the_shit_about_writing

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Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com

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To sign up for our Substack newsletter, head to https://theshitaboutwriting.substack.com

Our Sponsors:
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* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code rosettastone.com/today for a great deal: https://www.rosettastone.com
* Check out The Comprehensive Copywriting Academy and use my code thecca.co/tspodcast for a great deal: https://thecca.co
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