Your Undivided Attention

Silicon Valley's interest in AI is driven by more than just profit and innovation. There’s an unmistakable mystical quality to it as well. In this episode, Daniel and Aza sit down with humanist chaplain Greg Epstein to explore the fascinating parallels between technology and religion. From AI being treated as a godlike force to tech leaders' promises of digital salvation, religious thinking is shaping the future of technology and humanity. Epstein breaks down why he believes technology has become our era's most influential religion and what we can learn from these parallels to better understand where we're heading.

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on X.

If you like the show and want to support CHT's mission, please consider donating to the organization this giving season: https://www.humanetech.com/donate. Any amount helps support our goal to bring about a more humane future.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA 

“Tech Agnostic” by Greg Epstein

Further reading on Avi Schiffmann’s “Friend” AI necklace 

Further reading on Blake Lemoine and Lamda 

Blake LeMoine’s conversation with Greg at MIT 

Further reading on the Sewell Setzer case 

Further reading on Terminal of Truths 

Further reading on Ray Kurzweil’s attempt to create a digital recreation of his dad with AI 

The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES 

’A Turning Point in History’: Yuval Noah Harari on AI’s Cultural Takeover 

How to Think About AI Consciousness with Anil Seth 

Can Myth Teach Us Anything About the Race to Build Artificial General Intelligence? With Josh Schrei 

How To Free Our Minds with Cult Deprogramming Expert Dr. Steven Hassan

 

CW: This episode features discussion of suicide and sexual abuse. 

In the last episode, we had the journalist Laurie Segall on to talk about the tragic story of Sewell Setzer, a 14 year old boy who took his own life after months of abuse and manipulation by an AI companion from the company Character.ai. The question now is: what's next?

Megan has filed a major new lawsuit against Character.ai in Florida, which could force the company–and potentially the entire AI industry–to change its harmful business practices. So today on the show, we have Meetali Jain, director of the Tech Justice Law Project and one of the lead lawyers in Megan's case against Character.ai. Meetali breaks down the details of the case, the complex legal questions under consideration, and how this could be the first step toward systemic change. Also joining is Camille Carlton, CHT’s Policy Director.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

Further reading on Sewell’s story

Laurie Segall’s interview with Megan Garcia

The full complaint filed by Megan against Character.AI

Further reading on suicide bots 

Further reading on Noam Shazier and Daniel De Frietas’ relationship with Google 

The CHT Framework for Incentivizing Responsible Artificial Intelligence Development and Use

Organizations mentioned: 

The Tech Justice Law Project

The Social Media Victims Law Center

Mothers Against Media Addiction

Parents SOS

Parents Together

Common Sense Media

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

When the "Person" Abusing Your Child is a Chatbot: The Tragic Story of Sewell Setzer

Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis

AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.

Corrections: 

Meetali referred to certain chatbot apps as banning users under 18, however the settings for the major app stores ban users that are under 17, not under 18.

Meetali referred to Section 230 as providing “full scope immunity” to internet companies, however Congress has passed subsequent laws that have made carve outs for that immunity for criminal acts such as sex trafficking and intellectual property theft.

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on X. 

Content Warning: This episode contains references to suicide, self-harm, and sexual abuse.

Megan Garcia lost her son Sewell to suicide after he was abused and manipulated by AI chatbots for months. Now, she’s suing the company that made those chatbots. On today’s episode of Your Undivided Attention, Aza sits down with journalist Laurie Segall, who's been following this case for months. Plus, Laurie’s full interview with Megan on her new show, Dear Tomorrow.

Aza and Laurie discuss the profound implications of Sewell’s story on the rollout of AI. Social media began the race to the bottom of the brain stem and left our society addicted, distracted, and polarized. Generative AI is set to supercharge that race, taking advantage of the human need for intimacy and connection amidst a widespread loneliness epidemic. Unless we set down guardrails on this technology now, Sewell’s story may be a tragic sign of things to come, but it also presents an opportunity to prevent further harms moving forward.

If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health, you can reach out to the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988; this connects you to trained crisis counselors 24/7 who can provide support and referrals to further assistance.

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

The first episode of Dear Tomorrow, from Mostly Human Media

The CHT Framework for Incentivizing Responsible AI Development 

Further reading on Sewell’s case

Character.ai’s “About Us” page 

Further reading on the addictive properties of AI

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.

This Moment in AI: How We Got Here and Where We’re Going

Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis

The AI Dilemma

Social media disinformation did enormous damage to our shared idea of reality. Now, the rise of generative AI has unleashed a flood of high-quality synthetic media into the digital ecosystem. As a result, it's more difficult than ever to tell what’s real and what’s not, a problem with profound implications for the health of our society and democracy. So how do we fix this critical issue?

As it turns out, there’s a whole ecosystem of folks to answer that question. One is computer scientist Oren Etzioni, the CEO of TrueMedia.org, a free, non-partisan, non-profit tool that is able to detect AI generated content with a high degree of accuracy. Oren joins the show this week to talk about the problem of deepfakes and disinformation and what he sees as the best solutions.

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

TrueMedia.org

Further reading on the deepfaked image of an explosion near the Pentagon

Further reading on the deepfaked robocall pretending to be President Biden 

Further reading on the election deepfake in Slovakia 

Further reading on the President Obama lip-syncing deepfake from 2017 

One of several deepfake quizzes from the New York Times, test yourself! 

The Partnership on AI 

C2PA

Witness.org 

Truepic

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

‘We Have to Get It Right’: Gary Marcus On Untamed AI

Taylor Swift is Not Alone: The Deepfake Nightmare Sweeping the Internet

Synthetic Humanity: AI & What’s At Stake

CLARIFICATION: Oren said that the largest social media platforms “don’t see a responsibility to let the public know this was manipulated by AI.” Meta has made a public commitment to flagging AI-generated or -manipulated content. Whereas other platforms like TikTok and Snapchat rely on users to flag.

Historian Yuval Noah Harari says that we are at a critical turning point. One in which AI’s ability to generate cultural artifacts threatens humanity’s role as the shapers of history. History will still go on, but will it be the story of people or, as he calls them, ‘alien AI agents’?

In this conversation with Aza Raskin, Harari discusses the historical struggles that emerge from new technology, humanity’s AI mistakes so far, and the immediate steps lawmakers can take right now to steer us towards a non-dystopian future.

This episode was recorded live at the Commonwealth Club World Affairs of California.

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

NEXUS: A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone Age to AI by Yuval Noah Harari 

You Can Have the Blue Pill or the Red Pill, and We’re Out of Blue Pills: a New York Times op-ed from 2023, written by Yuval, Aza, and Tristan

 The 2023 open letter calling for a pause in AI development of at least 6 months, signed by Yuval and Aza 

Further reading on the Stanford Marshmallow Experiment Further reading on AlphaGo’s “move 37” 

Further Reading on Social.AI

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

This Moment in AI: How We Got Here and Where We’re Going

The Tech We Need for 21st Century Democracy with Divya Siddarth

Synthetic Humanity: AI & What’s At Stake

The AI Dilemma

Two Million Years in Two Hours: A Conversation with Yuval Noah Harari

It’s a confusing moment in AI. Depending on who you ask, we’re either on the fast track to AI that’s smarter than most humans, or the technology is about to hit a wall. Gary Marcus is in the latter camp. He’s a cognitive psychologist and computer scientist who built his own successful AI start-up. But he’s also been called AI’s loudest critic.

On Your Undivided Attention this week, Gary sits down with CHT Executive Director Daniel Barcay to defend his skepticism of generative AI and to discuss what we need to do as a society to get the rollout of this technology right… which is the focus of his new book, Taming Silicon Valley: How We Can Ensure That AI Works for Us.

The bottom line: No matter how quickly AI progresses, Gary argues that our society is woefully unprepared for the risks that will come from the AI we already have.

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

Link to Gary’s book: Taming Silicon Valley: How We Can Ensure That AI Works for Us

Further reading on the deepfake of the CEO of India's National Stock Exchange

Further reading on the deepfake of of an explosion near the Pentagon.

The study Gary cited on AI and false memories.

Footage from Gary and Sam Altman’s Senate testimony.

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to Warn

Taylor Swift is Not Alone: The Deepfake Nightmare Sweeping the Internet

No One is Immune to AI Harms with Dr. Joy Buolamwini

Correction: Gary mistakenly listed the reliability of GPS systems as 98%. The federal government’s standard for GPS reliability is 95%.

AI is moving fast. And as companies race to rollout newer, more capable models–with little regard for safety–the downstream risks of those models become harder and harder to counter. On this week’s episode of Your Undivided Attention, CHT’s policy director Casey Mock comes on the show to discuss a new legal framework to incentivize better AI, one that holds AI companies liable for the harms of their products. 

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

The CHT Framework for Incentivizing Responsible AI Development

Further Reading on Air Canada’s Chatbot Fiasco 

Further Reading on the Elon Musk Deep Fake Scams 

The Full Text of SB1047, California’s AI Regulation Bill 

Further reading on SB1047 

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to Warn

Can We Govern AI? with Marietje Schaake

A First Step Toward AI Regulation with Tom Wheeler

Correction: Casey incorrectly stated the year that the US banned child labor as 1937. It was banned in 1938.

[This episode originally aired on August 17, 2023] For all the talk about AI, we rarely hear about how it will change our relationships. As we swipe to find love and consult chatbot therapists, acclaimed psychotherapist and relationship expert Esther Perel warns that there’s another harmful “AI” on the rise — Artificial Intimacy — and how it is depriving us of real connection. Tristan and Esther discuss how depending on algorithms can fuel alienation, and then imagine how we might design technology to strengthen our social bonds.

RECOMMENDED MEDIA 

Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel

Esther's debut work on the intricacies behind modern relationships, and the dichotomy of domesticity and sexual desire

The State of Affairs by Esther Perel

Esther takes a look at modern relationships through the lens of infidelity

Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel

Listen in as real couples in search of help bare the raw and profound details of their stories

How’s Work? with Esther Perel

Esther’s podcast that focuses on the hard conversations we're afraid to have at work 

Lars and the Real Girl (2007)

A young man strikes up an unconventional relationship with a doll he finds on the internet

Her (2013)

In a near future, a lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with an operating system designed to meet his every need

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

Big Food, Big Tech and Big AI with Michael Moss

The AI Dilemma

The Three Rules of Humane Tech

Digital Democracy is Within Reach with Audrey Tang

CORRECTION: Esther refers to the 2007 film Lars and the Real Doll. The title of the film is Lars and the Real Girl.
 

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

Today, the tech industry is  the second-biggest lobbying power in Washington, DC, but that wasn’t true as recently as ten years ago. How did we get to this moment? And where could we be going next? On this episode of Your Undivided Attention, Tristan and Daniel sit down with historian Margaret O’Mara and journalist Brody Mullins to discuss how Silicon Valley has changed the nature of American lobbying. 

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

The Wolves of K Street: The Secret History of How Big Money Took Over Big Government - Brody’s book on the history of lobbying.

The Code: Silicon Valley and the Remaking of America - Margaret’s book on the historical relationship between Silicon Valley and Capitol Hill

More information on the Google antitrust ruling

More Information on KOSPA

More information on the SOPA/PIPA internet blackout

Detailed breakdown of Internet lobbying from Open Secrets

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

U.S. Senators Grilled Social Media CEOs. Will Anything Change?

Can We Govern AI? with Marietje Schaake
The Race to Cooperation with David Sloan Wilson

CORRECTION: Brody Mullins refers to AT&T as having a “hundred million dollar” lobbying budget in 2006 and 2007. While we couldn’t verify the size of their budget for lobbying, their actual lobbying spend was much less than this: $27.4m in 2006 and $16.5m in 2007, according to OpenSecrets.

The views expressed by guests appearing on Center for Humane Technology’s podcast, Your Undivided Attention, are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of CHT. CHT does not support or oppose any candidate or party for election to public office

It’s been a year and half since Tristan and Aza laid out their vision and concerns for the future of artificial intelligence in The AI Dilemma. In this Spotlight episode, the guys discuss what’s happened since then–as funding, research, and public interest in AI has exploded–and where we could be headed next. Plus, some major updates on social media reform, including the passage of the Kids Online Safety and Privacy Act in the Senate. 

Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_

RECOMMENDED MEDIA

The AI Dilemma: Tristan and Aza’s talk on the catastrophic risks posed by AI.

Info Sheet on KOSPA: More information on KOSPA from FairPlay.

Situational Awareness by Leopold Aschenbrenner: A widely cited blog from a former OpenAI employee, predicting the rapid arrival of AGI.

AI for Good: More information on the AI for Good summit that was held earlier this year in Geneva. 

Using AlphaFold in the Fight Against Plastic Pollution: More information on Google’s use of AlphaFold to create an enzyme to break down plastics. 

Swiss Call For Trust and Transparency in AI: More information on the initiatives mentioned by Katharina Frey.

RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES

War is a Laboratory for AI with Paul Scharre

Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis

Can We Govern AI? with Marietje Schaake 

The Three Rules of Humane Tech

The AI Dilemma

Clarification: Swiss diplomat Nina Frey’s full name is Katharina Frey.

The views expressed by guests appearing on Center for Humane Technology’s podcast, Your Undivided Attention, are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of CHT. CHT does not support or oppose any candidate or party for election to public office