走出森林Out of the woods

AI已经从科幻电影走入了我们的日常生活，本期我们邀请了来自湾区的学者和创业者，他们走在AI研究和应用的前沿，帮我们一起拆解这门复杂的技术。

• Shefali 刚刚主持了一场学术界和微软团队的AI讨论会，主题涉及 Copilot 一类的AI工具。她还开展了AI聊天机器人对心理健康影响的相关研究，期望为我们提供关于AI如何改变心理健康支持的见解。
• Rohan 和 James 是The AI Pulse的创始人。这是一份免费的每日AI快讯，三分钟内为你速递最新的AI趋势、工具和小贴士。他们将分享一些他们的工作心得，并带我们看看AI前沿的动向。

🔔本期节目语言为英文

【key excerpts 对话抢先看】

ChatGPT has definitely made me think more critically about how I approach tasks, but I also realize the importance of preserving human thinking and individuality amidst this technological boom.

ChatGPT让我对自己处理任务的方式进行了更深刻的思考，但我也意识到，在这场技术革命中，保持人类的思考和个性化仍然非常重要。

One of the biggest challenges with AI, especially in image and video generation, is getting it to produce exactly what you want. It’s amazing, but there’s definitely a learning curve in knowing how to prompt AI correctly.

在使用AI时，尤其是图像和视频生成方面，最大的挑战之一是让它准确生成你想要的内容。这非常令人惊叹，但确实需要掌握如何正确提示AI的技巧。

I’m optimistic about AI, but cautious about AGI. If machines can replicate human thought, it raises questions about the value of our own individuality. But at the same time, AI could free us from mundane tasks and let us focus on what makes us more human—our creativity and relationships.

我对AI持乐观态度，但对AGI保持谨慎。如果机器能够复制人类思维，那将引发对我们个性价值的疑问。但与此同时，AI也可以解放我们，让我们专注于更具创造力和人性化的事情，比如人际关系。

【Timeline 时间轴】

00:09 - Introduction to the Podcast

01:19 - Overview of Today’s Episode

03:12 - Guest Introductions

04:20 - Guests Describe Themselves in Three Words

07:27 - First Encounters with AI

10:20 - How AI Has Changed Our Lives

12:54 - Evolving Understanding of AI

16:42 - What Sparked Our Interest in AI

21:00 - Main Challenges in Using AI

26:27 - The Inspiration Behind The AI Pulse

31:57 - How The AI Pulse Was Created

33:17 - Audience Profile: Who Reads The AI Pulse

35:50 - Habits Around Subscribing to AI Newsletters

38:16 - AI Tools Used in Creating the Newsletter

40:18 - Criteria for Selecting Content for The AI Pulse

43:42 - Future Plans for The AI Pulse

46:16 - Free Talk: Understanding AI as a Tool

53:30 - Conclusion and Wrap-Up

【Acknowledgments 致谢】

Image by Alexandra_Koch from Pixabay

Music by Vitaly Vakulenko from Pixabay

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

西方以百老汇和西区为代表的演出市场，经历了漫长的发展，形成了严格的工业化和标准化体系。

而在国内，2018年《声入人心》带火了音乐剧，也带火了“梅溪湖”和伴生的饭圈文化。快速膨胀的音乐剧市场需求却没有足够的人才支撑满足，火热表象的背后是教育体系和表演市场的混乱扩张。

“我觉得这个市场正在有意识的或无意识地培养观众的审美取向”，在大量的“烂剧”被批量制造的同时，观众的审美被降级，“最后他们就是吃到一点点好的就觉得，唉，好的不得了，就要给你送钱了”。循环往复间，市场的畸形发展造就了更多观众被“割韭菜”。

00:00 Intro

02:09 国产优质音乐剧《爱情神话》

04:36 上海独特的音乐剧土壤

06:40 畸形市场引导审美降级

07:40 始于《声入人心》的饭圈文化

08:08 快速移植“东拼西凑”的产业体系

11:32 “25到35岁有消费能力的年轻女性，其实就是大多数市面上制作公司想要收割的韭菜”

14:24 盘一盘“媚俗”的音乐剧怎么就成“Strong”的资本了

17:47 观众的理解能力甚至强过演员

19:55 漫谈：作者本位抑或作者已死？

25:15 行业范式 VS 主观创造

26:38 迪士尼、百老汇和西区的标准化与工业化

31:22 怎样从爱好者迈向实践者

40:10 好剧推荐：《人人都在谈论杰米》& Come from Away (《来自远方》)

43:05 Outro

【嘉宾】

艺书 | 英专生，MeanGirls 没够主播，复旦音乐剧社成员

（🍠@艺书 ID:1574559995 ）

Yoyo | 医学生，复旦音乐剧社成员

（🍠@_yu.m ID:806533406）

【BGM】

Music by Julius H. from Pixabay

【图片】

复旦音乐剧社

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

各位听众大家好！本期是和「MeanGirls 没够」 的主播艺书以及医学生yoyo共同带来的一场有关音乐剧的圆桌讨论。艺书和yoyo都是复旦音乐剧社的成员，她们不仅是音乐剧爱好者，还是表演实践者，在今年6月的社团大戏Legally Blonde (《律政俏佳人》) 都有着精彩出演。两位嘉宾将在节目中分享练习、表演音乐剧的亲身体验和感悟，讨论对于音乐剧演艺市场的观察。

身为英专生的艺书直言毕业后“在剧院门口卖炒粉”和到剧院里面去唱音乐剧似乎也没太多差别，于是将后者设定为了自己的职业目标。对于yoyo而言，“歪打误着”而接触到的音乐剧是学医之余的调剂，是纯粹的快乐源泉。

两人作为“外行”进入音乐剧表演的世界，在一次次练习中学会解放天性，让自己成为角色，也让角色融入自己。“一个演员不可能有所有的人生经历”，时常她们需要理解超出自己现有经验的人物和剧情，比如身为大学生没有结过婚却要在表演中探讨婚姻。在短暂地作为某个角色生活之后，这些角色也会为她们留下一些礼物。毕竟，表演是“The process of completing yourself.”

【时间轴】

00:00 Intro

00:52 嘉宾介绍

04:11 把音乐剧当饭碗？To be or not to be

11:30 反复练习与角色磨合

13:50 看似戴上面具🎭实则卸下伪装

16:11 表演是一个成长性过程

17:28 没结过婚的我们，该怎么超越经验演绎婚姻

22:22 一切的一切都是为了通过表演讲故事

27:57 好的音乐剧演员是六边形体能王者

30:00 Outro

【嘉宾】

艺书 🍠@艺书 

• 英专生
• MeanGirls 没够主播
• 复旦音乐剧社成员

Yoyo 🍠@_yu.m

• 医学生
• 复旦音乐剧社成员

【BGM】

Music by Julius H. from Pixabay

【图片】

复旦音乐剧社

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

不知不觉之间，我们的节目《走出森林Out of the woods》即将诞生一周年。去年夏天，做一档播客还只是我们四位主播脑海中一个漂浮的念头；今年夏天，我们的节目列表上已经有了三十多期更新。于是我们决定进行一次复盘，来聊一聊做播客一年的成长与思考。

以防正在浏览的你不了解我们的节目，请允许我们再做一些自我介绍：

《走出森林》将从青年的视角出发，带你认识世界各地有意思的人，看见更广阔的世界，聆听无限的可能。我们也将带你脱离内卷焦虑，一起探索个人成长，职场进阶等干货话题，带你打怪升级，帮助迷茫踌躇的你走出森林，与你一同见证密林那边的广阔风景！

如果你是播客重度用户，对播客制作感兴趣，或者有一些时间和兴致来听我们唠唠嗑，那么不妨点击播放键，和我们一起来回顾一年以来的收获与感动。

【时间轴】

00:06 开首语 

00:26 开始做播客的原因

07:26 做播客一年的变化 

16:09 遇到的挑战 

20:57 播放量最高的播客 

28:00 对播客行业的观察和思考 

36:56 使用AIGC辅助播客制作 

41:46 对未来的期待 

43:02 尾声 

【致谢】

Music by Vitaliy Levkin from Pixabay

Picture by StockSnap from Pixabay

本期节目就是这样！欢迎在评论区留言，和我们分享你对播客的看法、对我们节目的建议或者其它任何想法！我们下期再见！

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

这次是一期串台节目，我们邀请到《以上皆非》的主播钟老师来聊一聊在美国学品牌的那些事情。钟老师是我本科同专业的同学，我们都学战略传播，钟老师自己也对传播有独特的见解。他的播客栏目《以上皆非》是一个闲谈节目（www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com），欢迎大家关注，这期播客也将同步发布在《以上皆非》上。这期播客中，钟老师是主场主持人，《走出森林》作为嘉宾。接下来让我们一起来听听在美国学品牌的那些事吧！

本期播客主要会探讨在全美top新闻学院威斯康星大学麦迪逊分校学习的感受、学习整合营销课程的思考；我们会讨论在美国学品牌以后，在实际工作上是否存在悬浮感，以及在美国和国内做营销的区别。欢迎对品牌传播感兴趣的朋友们在评论区留言，一起加入讨论！

Hello everyone, welcome to this episode of "Out of the Woods." This time, we have a crossover episode, and I'm delighted to chat with my old classmate, Mr. Zhong, about our experiences studying branding in the US.

Mr. Zhong and I were classmates in the same undergraduate program, majoring in Strategic Communication. He has unique insights into communication, and he is also the host of the podcast "Neither Here Nor There," which is a casual talk show discussing interesting topics.

If you're interested, you can follow his podcast, and this episode will also be released on "Neither Here Nor There." Since Mr. Zhong is the host for this episode, "Out of the Woods" will be recorded in a guest format. Let's dive into our conversation about studying branding in the US!

In this episode, we will mainly explore our experiences with the Integrated Marketing course at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, our feelings about studying at a top journalism school in the US, and discuss whether there's a sense of disconnection between studying branding in the US and working in the field. We'll also talk about the differences between doing marketing in the US and China.

If you are interested in brand communication, please leave comments and join the discussion!

【时间轴】

00:00 栏目介绍 Introduction

01:57  嘉宾介绍 Guests

03:33 美国品牌整合营销课教会了我们什么? What Did We Learn from the Integrated Marketing Course in the US?

16:05 在新闻学院上课的这些年 Attending Classes at the School of Journalism

28:21 工作和学习之间的悬浮感? Disconnection Between Work and Study?

29:51 中美做营销的区别 Differences in Marketing Between the US and China

41:10 本期总结 Summary

【了解更多】

《以上皆非》（"Neither Here Nor There"）播客链接： www.xiaoyuzhoufm.com

欢迎大家订阅关注!

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

【Summary】

Hi! Welcome back to 走出森林 out of the woods, in this episode, our guests will talk about their internships with German government and the United Nations. Ready? Let's continue this exciting journey!

大家好，欢迎回到走出森林，在本期节目中，两位嘉宾将分享他们在德国政府和联合国的实习经历。准备好了吗？让我们继续这段激动人心的旅程吧！

That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening! For more inspiring stories, subscribe and stay tuned. You can find our channel on Xiao Yu Zhou, wechat official account, Red, spotify, and Apple podcast. If you're politically active or interested in the topics of this episode, feel free to share your thoughts. You can either leave us a comment or contact us by email. See you next time!

本期节目就到这里，感谢您的收听！更多精彩，请订阅并持续关注。您可以在小宇宙、微信公众号、小红书、Spotify 和 Apple Podcast 发现我们。如果您对于本期话题有任何想要分享的，可以通过各平台留言或电子邮件联系我们。下期再见！

【Timeline】

00:00 Review and summary of this episode

00:24 Europeanness: an identity of being European

03:56 Prioritized national security with growing unrest

06:00 Future career paths for politics students in China

07:20 Han’s internship with UNICEF and advice for applicants

12:59 Thea’s internship with the German government

18:30 How to get UN internships

21:11 Diversity and dynamics of personal interactions

24:50 Remember why you started — civil society

29:29 Outro

【Credits】

Music by AudioCoffee(Denys Kyshchuk): www.audiocoffee.net

Image by WOKANDAPIX from Pixabay

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【主持人语 Intro】

What is politics? Is it the obscure terms in the news, the heated arguments between political parties during the election, or the unrest in the global community?  We are not attempting to give a precise definition, which is the work of political scholars. Still, we have conducted a conversation between two young people from Germany and China, who are passionate about politics to gain an understanding of how they blend politics into daily lives.

政治究竟是什么？是新闻中晦涩难懂的名词定义，选举现场各党派的唇枪舌战，还是国际社会的风起云涌？我们并不试图下一个精准的定义，这是学者致力研究的工作，不过我们仍然尝试用一场对话，连接不同国度热心政治的年轻人，了解他们如何与政治打交道。

Working with the United Nations or governments seems a bit far-fetched from our daily perspective. However, our guests Thea and Han, as political science students, have personally participated in this practice. Thea has interned at the German government for nearly a year, and Han has interned at the UN headquarters in New York for six months.

联合国亦或政府实习，在日常视角中似乎显得有些遥远。但在我们的嘉宾Thea和Han作为政治学学生，亲身投入了这场实践。Thea曾在德国政府实习了接近一年，Han则前往联合国纽约总部进行了半年的实习。

This conversation is divided into two parts: The first episodes focus on political science education they've received in Shanghai and Berlin, and the second part turn to their practices of interning with the German government and the UN headquarters in NY. Thea and Han will be sharing insiders' first-hand experiences, where you can find facts, opinions and anecdotes.

这次对话分为两部分：第一集中嘉宾将分享他们在上海和柏林学习政治学的经历，第二集主要关注他们在德国政府和纽约联合国总部实习的实践。Thea 和 Han 将在节目中分享他们的内部视角和亲身经历，这里不仅有事实、观点，还有鲜为人知的轶事。

【Summary】

In this episode, Thea and Han shared their passion in this field, personal experiences of studying political science in Shanghai and Berlin, and their observation in different contexts. In the next episode, the two guests will share their internships with the national government and international organizations. Stay tuned！

在本集中，Thea 和 Han 分享了他们对该领域的热情、在上海和柏林学习政治的个人经历以及他们在不同背景下的观察。在下一集中，两位嘉宾将分享他们在国家政府和国际组织的实习经历。欢迎持续收听！

You can find our channel on Xiao Yu Zhou, Wechat official account, Red, spotify, and Apple podcast. If you're politically active or interested in the topics of this episode, feel free to share your thoughts. You can either leave us a comment or contact us by email. See you next time!

您可以在小宇宙、微信公众号、小红书、Spotify 和 Apple Podcast 发现我们。如果您对于本期话题有任何想要分享的，可以通过各平台留言或电子邮件联系我们。下期再见！

【Timeline】

00:00 Program Introduction and episode summary

01:46 Guests welcome and introduction

03:25 Political science education in Germany and China

07:23 Filling the gap between the political theories and practice

16:03 Semester plans and yearly goals of politics undergraduates

22:50 Differences of studying politics at German and Chinese universities

29:51 Politics is a lifestyle: Thea

32:23 Crosstalk: perspectives on the polarizing world

37:59 Considerations on pursuing a master’s degree

42:42 Outro

【Notes】

The European Credit Transfer and Accumulation System (ECTS) is a tool of the European Higher Education Area for making studies and courses more transparent. It helps students to move between countries and to have their academic qualifications and study periods abroad recognised.

欧洲学分转换与累积系统 (ECTS) 是欧洲高等教育区为使学习和课程更加透明而设立的工具。它帮助学生在各个国家之间流动，并使其学历和海外学习年限得到认可。

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

【写在前面】

这一期的录制还是在艾美奖和奥斯卡的季节，因此距离现在其实已经是有一段时间之前了。

之所以珍藏着这一期一直没有剪辑，一方面是因为期待能够在上海电影节之际再上线，作为一个可以和大家更加同频讨论的一个媒介。另一方面，也是有一个小私心——个人认为电影和夏天更配，ta们共同都有着无限旺盛的生命力和绵延不绝的影响力。

这一次，也期待能够和你一起给夏天和爱电影的人献上一封有温度的声音信。

This episode was recorded during the Emmy and Oscar season, so quite some time has passed since then.

We held onto this episode without editing it until now for two reasons. First, we hoped to release it in conjunction with the Shanghai International Film Festival, providing a timely medium for more in-depth discussions with everyone. Second, on a personal note, I believe that films and summer share a special synergy; both exude boundless vitality and leave an enduring impact.

This time, I hope to present a heartfelt audio letter dedicated to summer and all movie lovers, sharing this vibrant season together.

======

【引子】

Huazi和我是大学同学，也称得上是我最早认识的大学同学之一。我们初次相识，是在大一第一学期的一节英语课上。当时，我们正巧都被分到了这一节课，并且成为了小组作业的组员。至今，我依旧能够记得，当时我们做了一个关于人性七宗罪的小组汇报。即使每个人有长长的脚本要记住，但是依旧是一场既有趣又有收获的经历。

我们于同年本科毕业，毕业后我来到了美国继续求学，Huazi去了北京，继续追逐着自己对于影视行业的热爱。我对于Huazi的印象，一直都觉得她有种独特的艺术家气质在身上。对于身边的人事物，她似乎总有着极其敏锐的感知和独到的理解。她对于世界的表达，仿佛是给我们每个人都增长了身上的触角，帮助我们去体验到那些未曾有过的经历。

这一次，我们跨越16个小时的时差，从太平洋的一端，通过长长的海底电缆，连接到另一端。让我们的思绪、情感、意识、认知一并被这一场对话链接在一起。

Huazi and I were college classmates, and she was one of the first friends I made during my university days. We first met in an English class during our freshman year. Coincidentally, we were assigned to the same class and became group partners for an assignment. I can still vividly recall our presentation on the seven deadly sins of human nature. Despite the long scripts we had to memorize, it was an engaging and rewarding experience.

We graduated the same year. After graduation, I moved to the United States to continue my studies, while Huazi went to Beijing to pursue her passion for the film industry. I’ve always perceived Huazi as having a unique artist’s aura. She possesses an exceptionally keen perception and a profound understanding of the world around her. Her expressions of the world seem to extend our senses, allowing us to experience things we had never encountered before.

This time, we bridged the 16-hour time difference, connecting from one end of the Pacific Ocean to the other through long undersea cables. This conversation intertwines our thoughts, emotions, consciousness, and perceptions, bringing us together despite the vast distance.

======

【本期内容】

时隔一年后，我们再一次聊起了“芭本海默”，聊起了如何定义女性主义电影，以及电影行业如何在女性主义的道路上继续前行。

最后，Huazi分享了对于自己日后的小小期待，并且也祝愿大家都成为一个真实的生活家。

A year later, we revisit the topic of “Barbenheimer,” discussing how to define feminist films and how the film industry can continue to advance on the path of feminism.

In the end, Huazi shares her modest hopes for the future and extends her best wishes to everyone, encouraging all to become true connoisseurs of life.

======

本次访谈分为上中下三期。第一期节目主要围绕Huazi如何选择进入电影行业、对于成为电影人和电影创作的理解等展开；第二期节目更多探索了电影行业入门、经典重拍与电影中的女性主义与流动性；第三期节目则再聊一聊“芭本海默”，以及电影行业在女性主义实践上的未来道路。欢迎大家订阅并持续收听！

This interview is divided into three parts. In the first episode, we focus on Huazi’s decision to enter the film industry, her understanding of being a filmmaker, and the creative process of filmmaking. The second episode delves deeper into the film industry's entry points, the phenomenon of classic remakes, and the themes of feminism and fluidity in cinema. In the third episode, we discuss the concept of “Barbenheimer” and explore the future path of feminist practices within the film industry. Stay tuned and subscribe for more insights!

======

【时间线】

00:00  《走出森林》节目介绍

02:01  时隔近一年后，再次聊聊“芭本海默”

08:16  我们如何定义女性主义电影

09:49  米亚·汉森-洛夫《将来的事》

11:05  佩德罗·阿莫多瓦《关于我母亲的一切》

12:21  电影行业在女性主义的道路上何去何从

13:28  Huazi对于自己未来在电影行业的期待

15:39  最后想和大家说的肺腑之言

16:14  结束语

======

【致谢】

Music by Olexy from Pixabay

Image by stokpic from Pixabay

======

【本期讨论的电影和书籍】

电影

● 托德·海因斯《五月十二月》

● 滨口龙介《驾驶我的车》/《欢乐时光》/《夜以继日》

● 贾玲《热辣滚烫》

● 武正晴《百元之恋》（安藤樱主演）

● 《史密斯夫妇》（2024电视版）

● 拉斯·冯·提尔《反基督者》/《女性瘾者》

● 翠西·西埃《坐在酒吧里吃蛋糕》

● 罗伊·安德森电影幕后纪录片《人生如是》

● 克里斯托弗·诺兰《奥本海默》

● 格蕾塔·葛韦格《芭比》

● 米亚·汉森-洛夫《将来的事》

● 佩德罗·阿莫多瓦《关于我母亲的一切》

● 莱奥·卡拉克斯《新桥恋人》

书籍：

● 西蒙·波伏娃《第二性》

● 朱迪斯·巴特勒《性别麻烦》

Movies:

● Todd Haynes' "May December"

● Ryusuke Hamaguchi's "Drive My Car" / "Happy Hour" / "Asako I & II"

● Wim Wenders' "Pina"

● Jia Ling's "YOLO"

● Masaharu Take's "100 Yen Love" (starring Sakura Ando)

● "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" (2024 TV series)

● Lars von Trier's "Antichrist" / "Nymphomaniac"

● Trish Sie's "Sitting in Bars with Cake"

● Roy Andersson's behind-the-scenes documentary "Being a Human Person"

● Christopher Nolan's "Oppenheimer"

● Greta Gerwig's "Barbie"

● Mia Hansen-Løve's "Things to Come"

● Pedro Almodóvar's "All About My Mother"

● Leos Carax's "The Lovers on the Bridge"

Books:

● Simone de Beauvoir's "The Second Sex"

● Judith Butler's "Gender Trouble"

======

▶️本期节目就是这样，期待大家在小红薯、公主号、🍎播客、⚫️Spotify等平台发现我们，收听完整节目～

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

【写在前面】

这一期的录制还是在艾美奖和奥斯卡的季节，因此距离现在其实已经是有一段时间之前了。

之所以珍藏着这一期一直没有剪辑，一方面是因为期待能够在上海电影节之际再上线，作为一个可以和大家更加同频讨论的一个媒介。另一方面，也是有一个小私心——个人认为电影和夏天更配，ta们共同都有着无限旺盛的生命力和绵延不绝的影响力。

这一次，也期待能够和你一起给夏天和爱电影的人献上一封有温度的声音信。

This episode was recorded during the Emmy and Oscar season, so quite some time has passed since then.

We held onto this episode without editing it until now for two reasons. First, we hoped to release it in conjunction with the Shanghai International Film Festival, providing a timely medium for more in-depth discussions with everyone. Second, on a personal note, I believe that films and summer share a special synergy; both exude boundless vitality and leave an enduring impact.

This time, I hope to present a heartfelt audio letter dedicated to summer and all movie lovers, sharing this vibrant season together.

======

【引子】

Huazi和我是大学同学，也称得上是我最早认识的大学同学之一。我们初次相识，是在大一第一学期的一节英语课上。当时，我们正巧都被分到了这一节课，并且成为了小组作业的组员。至今，我依旧能够记得，当时我们做了一个关于人性七宗罪的小组汇报。即使每个人有长长的脚本要记住，但是依旧是一场既有趣又有收获的经历。

我们于同年本科毕业，毕业后我来到了美国继续求学，Huazi去了北京，继续追逐着自己对于影视行业的热爱。我对于Huazi的印象，一直都觉得她有种独特的艺术家气质在身上。对于身边的人事物，她似乎总有着极其敏锐的感知和独到的理解。她对于世界的表达，仿佛是给我们每个人都增长了身上的触角，帮助我们去体验到那些未曾有过的经历。

这一次，我们跨越16个小时的时差，从太平洋的一端，通过长长的海底电缆，连接到另一端。让我们的思绪、情感、意识、认知一并被这一场对话链接在一起。

Huazi and I were college classmates, and she was one of the first friends I made during my university days. We first met in an English class during our freshman year. Coincidentally, we were assigned to the same class and became group partners for an assignment. I can still vividly recall our presentation on the seven deadly sins of human nature. Despite the long scripts we had to memorize, it was an engaging and rewarding experience.

We graduated the same year. After graduation, I moved to the United States to continue my studies, while Huazi went to Beijing to pursue her passion for the film industry. I’ve always perceived Huazi as having a unique artist’s aura. She possesses an exceptionally keen perception and a profound understanding of the world around her. Her expressions of the world seem to extend our senses, allowing us to experience things we had never encountered before.

This time, we bridged the 16-hour time difference, connecting from one end of the Pacific Ocean to the other through long undersea cables. This conversation intertwines our thoughts, emotions, consciousness, and perceptions, bringing us together despite the vast distance.

======

【本期内容】

电影语言往往来自各个领域，而丰富的经历真的能够讲好电影故事吗？

Huazi坦诚地分享了成为电影人之后的生活状态，以及电影行业的进入壁垒到底是怎样的。

随后，我们聊到了艺术作品中的女巫形象、电影中经典的翻牌，以及从荧幕到生活中的女性情谊。

我们还谈及了女性主义，聊到了导演性别对于电影的诠释、“杂糅性”对于电影人的意义，还有流动性对于创作的影响。

Does having a rich array of experiences truly help in telling compelling film stories, given that the language of cinema often draws from various fields?

Huazi candidly shares the reality of life as a filmmaker and sheds light on the actual barriers to entering the film industry.

We then delve into the portrayal of witches in art, the phenomenon of classic remakes in cinema, and the representation of female friendships both on-screen and in real life.

Our conversation also touches on feminism, discussing how a director’s gender influences cinematic interpretation, the significance of “hybridity” for filmmakers, and the impact of fluidity on the creative process.

======

本次访谈分为上中下三期。第一期节目主要围绕Huazi如何选择进入电影行业、对于成为电影人和电影创作的理解等展开；第二期节目更多探索了电影行业入门、经典重拍与电影中的女性主义与流动性；第三期节目将再聊一聊“芭本海默”，以及电影行业在女性主义实践上的未来道路。欢迎大家订阅并持续收听！

This interview is divided into three parts. In the first episode, we focus on Huazi’s decision to enter the film industry, her understanding of being a filmmaker, and the creative process of filmmaking. The second episode delves deeper into the film industry's entry points, the phenomenon of classic remakes, and the themes of feminism and fluidity in cinema. In the third episode, we discuss the concept of “Barbenheimer” and explore the future path of feminist practices within the film industry. Stay tuned and subscribe for more insights!

======

【时间线】

00:00  《走出森林》节目介绍

02:01  丰富的经历能够讲好电影故事吗？

05:05  成为电影人之后，其实是在成为谁？

07:05  电影行业入门到底有多难？

09:16  从生活聊到性别，女性主义离我们有多远？

11:45 当女性主义成为一种实际的生活方式

14:47  经典扎堆重拍？背后的考量是怎样的

18:22  当女巫被搬上荧幕，我们在讨论什么？

20:01  从电影聊到现实生活中的女性情谊

23:33  电影工作者里的女性与男性们

26:29  女性规训与男性规训

27:35  生活中的女性情谊、男性情谊与群体认同

29:08  导演罗伊·安德森的和谐剧组

30:14 电影对于Huazi女性主义认知的改变

35:22  “杂糅”对于电影人的影响

37:08  没有“板上钉钉”的现实，流动性让我们看得更远

38:34  本期回顾和下期提要

======

【致谢】

Music by Olexy from Pixabay

Image by stokpic from Pixabay

======

【本期讨论的电影和书籍】

电影

● 托德·海因斯《五月十二月》

● 滨口龙介《驾驶我的车》/《欢乐时光》/《夜以继日》

● 贾玲《热辣滚烫》

● 武正晴《百元之恋》（安藤樱主演）

● 《史密斯夫妇》（2024电视版）

● 拉斯·冯·提尔《反基督者》/《女性瘾者》

● 翠西·西埃《坐在酒吧里吃蛋糕》

● 罗伊·安德森电影幕后纪录片《人生如是》

● 克里斯托弗·诺兰《奥本海默》

● 格蕾塔·葛韦格《芭比》

● 米亚·汉森-洛夫《将来的事》

● 佩德罗·阿莫多瓦《关于我母亲的一切》

● 莱奥·卡拉克斯《新桥恋人》

书籍：

● 西蒙·波伏娃《第二性》

● 朱迪斯·巴特勒《性别麻烦》

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

【写在前面】

这一期的录制还是在艾美奖和奥斯卡的季节，因此距离现在其实已经是有一段时间之前了。

之所以珍藏着这一期一直没有剪辑，一方面是因为期待能够在上海电影节之际再上线，作为一个可以和大家更加同频讨论的一个媒介。另一方面，也是有一个小私心——个人认为电影和夏天更配，ta们共同都有着无限旺盛的生命力和绵延不绝的影响力。

这一次，也期待能够和你一起给夏天和爱电影的人献上一封有温度的声音信。

This episode was recorded during the Emmy and Oscar season, so quite some time has passed since then.

We held onto this episode without editing it until now for two reasons. First, we hoped to release it in conjunction with the Shanghai International Film Festival, providing a timely medium for more in-depth discussions with everyone. Second, on a personal note, I believe that films and summer share a special synergy; both exude boundless vitality and leave an enduring impact.

This time, I hope to present a heartfelt audio letter dedicated to summer and all movie lovers, sharing this vibrant season together.

======

【引子】

Huazi和我是大学同学，也称得上是我最早认识的大学同学之一。我们初次相识，是在大一第一学期的一节英语课上。当时，我们正巧都被分到了这一节课，并且成为了小组作业的组员。至今，我依旧能够记得，当时我们做了一个关于人性七宗罪的小组汇报。即使每个人有长长的脚本要记住，但是依旧是一场既有趣又有收获的经历。

我们于同年本科毕业，毕业后我来到了美国继续求学，Huazi去了北京，继续追逐着自己对于影视行业的热爱。我对于Huazi的印象，一直都觉得她有种独特的艺术家气质在身上。对于身边的人事物，她似乎总有着极其敏锐的感知和独到的理解。她对于世界的表达，仿佛是给我们每个人都增长了身上的触角，帮助我们去体验到那些未曾有过的经历。

这一次，我们跨越16个小时的时差，从太平洋的一端，通过长长的海底电缆，连接到另一端。让我们的思绪、情感、意识、认知一并被这一场对话链接在一起。

Huazi and I were college classmates, and she was one of the first friends I made during my university days. We first met in an English class during our freshman year. Coincidentally, we were assigned to the same class and became group partners for an assignment. I can still vividly recall our presentation on the seven deadly sins of human nature. Despite the long scripts we had to memorize, it was an engaging and rewarding experience.

We graduated the same year. After graduation, I moved to the United States to continue my studies, while Huazi went to Beijing to pursue her passion for the film industry. I’ve always perceived Huazi as having a unique artist’s aura. She possesses an exceptionally keen perception and a profound understanding of the world around her. Her expressions of the world seem to extend our senses, allowing us to experience things we had never encountered before.

This time, we bridged the 16-hour time difference, connecting from one end of the Pacific Ocean to the other through long undersea cables. This conversation intertwines our thoughts, emotions, consciousness, and perceptions, bringing us together despite the vast distance.

======

【本期内容】

情绪驱动，好奇，急——Huazi虽然还是选了三个词来形容自己，但是能够明显感觉到她丰富的生活故事完全从字里行间中迸发出来，受不到一点字数限制。

种种内在的自发因素和外在的巧合影响相叠加，让Huazi走上了追寻电影的道路。

对于电影，Huazi分享了所谓生活的真实与表演的真实，以及电影如何成为一种让人们接触到更大更复杂的世界的媒介。

同时，Huazi也介绍了电影如何一步步从零到一百进入观众的视野，其中具体的生产流程是怎样的，以及自己在电影拍摄过程中遇到的种种有意思的事。

Driven by emotions, curiosity, and urgency—these are the three words Huazi uses to describe herself. Yet, it’s evident that her rich life stories burst forth from these words, unrestricted by any word count.

The interplay of various internal motivations and external coincidences has led Huazi down the path of filmmaking.

In our discussion, Huazi delves into the so-called realism of life and the realism of performance, sharing insights on how film serves as a medium for people to access a larger, more complex world.

She also takes us through the intricate journey of how a film goes from concept to completion, explaining the specific production processes and sharing many intriguing anecdotes from her experiences on set.

======

本次访谈分为上中下三期。第一期节目主要围绕Huazi如何选择进入电影行业、对于成为电影人和电影创作的理解等展开；第二期节目将更多探索电影行业入门、经典重拍与电影中的女性主义与流动性；第三期节目将再聊一聊“芭本海默”，以及电影行业在女性主义实践上的未来道路。欢迎大家订阅并持续收听！

This interview is divided into three parts. In the first episode, we focus on Huazi’s decision to enter the film industry, her understanding of being a filmmaker, and the creative process of filmmaking. The second episode delves deeper into the film industry's entry points, the phenomenon of classic remakes, and the themes of feminism and fluidity in cinema. In the third episode, we discuss the concept of “Barbenheimer” and explore the future path of feminist practices within the film industry. Stay tuned and subscribe for more insights!

======

【时间线】

00:00  《走出森林》节目介绍

01:58  走近Huazi

03:37  Huazi眼中的自己是怎样的

07:22  Huazi最近看的电影《五月十二月》

10:22  生活的真实与表演的真实

12:00  电影《五月十二月》的命名

12:20  怎样从不同视角欣赏电影艺术

13:46  电影如何丰富我们的认知

17:40  Huazi选择电影创作的契机

19:05  电影到底是怎样被生产出来的

30:06  电影如何传达信息

32:34  电影人具有怎样的特质

38:43  Huazi自己的电影偏好

40:00  本期回顾与下期预告

======

【致谢】

Music by Olexy from Pixabay

Image by stokpic from Pixabay

======

【本期讨论的电影和书籍】

电影

● 托德·海因斯《五月十二月》

● 滨口龙介《驾驶我的车》/《欢乐时光》/《夜以继日》

● 贾玲《热辣滚烫》

● 武正晴《百元之恋》（安藤樱主演）

● 《史密斯夫妇》（2024电视版）

● 拉斯·冯·提尔《反基督者》/《女性瘾者》

● 翠西·西埃《坐在酒吧里吃蛋糕》

● 罗伊·安德森电影幕后纪录片《人生如是》

● 克里斯托弗·诺兰《奥本海默》

● 格蕾塔·葛韦格《芭比》

● 米亚·汉森-洛夫《将来的事》

● 佩德罗·阿莫多瓦《关于我母亲的一切》

● 莱奥·卡拉克斯《新桥恋人》

书籍：

● 西蒙·波伏娃《第二性》

● 朱迪斯·巴特勒《性别麻烦》

在小宇宙查看该单集文稿