Today's disagreement is on U .S. immigration. We're going to focus on two things.

First, the border: how did we get here and what should we do now? Second, what is the right strategic approach to U.S. immigration?

How do we weigh the costs and benefits? How do we balance national interests and humanitarian concerns?

In today's episode: two immigration experts with two very different perspectives on this pressing issue.

Marielena Hincapié is a Distinguished Immigration Scholar at Cornell University and served as the Executive Director of the National Immigration Law Center for 14 years. She also served on the Biden-Sanders Unity Taskforce on Immigration.

Philip Cafaro is a professor of Philosophy at the College of Liberal Arts at Colorado State University. He is the author of How Many Is Too Many?: The Progressive Argument for Reducing Immigration into the United States from the University of Chicago Press (2015).

• Why do people immigrate to the United States?  [04:15]
• Who bears the brunt of responsibility for the current crisis: Pres. Biden or Pres. Trump? [05:49]
• Did the Biden administration incentivize mass immigration? [07:24]
• The difference between asylum-seekers and refugees [16:12]
• The humanitarian crisis in Central America [17:11]
• U.S. culpability in the conditions in Latin American countries [25:45]
• Impact on domestic wages  [27:30]
• Enforcement of labor laws [32:29]
• Environmental impact of overpopulation [33:00]
• Is there a labor shortage? [35:17]
• Impact of immigration on African Americans [41:30]
• White working class identity [48:11]
• Steelmanning  [53:42]

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