Incredible timing! News broke about the Kirtland temple and other properties and manuscripts on Tuesday, and Cheryl and Dan and I already had this interview scheduled for Wednesday morning!

Cheryl and Dan have been collecting stories about the many people who had to flee early Utah for their lives. I invited them to come on and share some of them. Of course, we also spent time discussing the breathtaking news of the sold properties.

Links from Cheryl and Dan:

Firsthand accounts of saints who went to Utah with Brigham Young.

1). Mark H. Forscutt: Diaries compiled by his daughter Ruby C. Faunce

Reference: The Saints Herald, January 16-May 1, 1934

www.latterdaytruth.org

Or from Paul Ludy at www.RLDSBooks.blogspot.com

Email at [email protected] or www.restorationbookstore.org

2). John Brush: (From his diaries.)

Reference: Autumn Leaves, January – June 1891

www.latterdaytruth.org

Or from Paul Ludy at www.RLDSBooks.blogspot.com

Email at [email protected] or www.restorationbookstore.org

3). J. C. Clapp:

Reference: Autumn Leaves, November 1907 Vol. 20 No: 11 pages 481-485

December 1907 Vol. 20 No: 12 pages 537-554

www.latterdaytruth.org

Or from Paul Ludy at www.RLDSBooks.blogspot.com

Email at [email protected] or www.restorationbookstore.org

4). Autobiography of Elder Charles Derry www.restorationbookstore.com

“Charles Derry’s Reasons for Leaving Utah” www.latterdaytruth.org

Reference: Saints Herald Vol. 2 June 1862-- pages 268-274; March 1861—1862.

The Saints Advocate, April 1883 Vol. 5 No. 10 pages 305-310.

5). John and Mary Griffith…Book called: “The Vindicator” written by John and Mary Griffith’s

Granddaughter Iris Griffith from their diaries.

References: True Latterday Saints Herald, January 1, 1872

(This is book is out of print but it may be purchased from Paul Ludy at:

www.RLDSBooks.blogspot.com or by Email at [email protected])

6). Gomer T. Griffith An Autobiography (book) www.restorationbookstore.com

Reference: The Saints Herald November 2, 1927—February 1, 1928

Saints Herald November 2, 1927 Vol. 74 No: 44 pages 1276-1279

Saints Herald December 7, 1927 Vol. 74 No: 49 pages 1430-1433

7). The Memoirs of President W. W. Blair (page 184) www.restorationbookstore.com

8). Five book series written by Pearl Wilcox from 1972—1989, these books were published by

RLDS Herald House but are out of print. You may be able to purchase them from Paul Ludy at

www.RLDSBooks.blogspot.com or by Email at [email protected]

A). Regathering of the Scattered Saints in Wisconsin and Illinois by Pearl Wilcox

David Powell, page: 50

Morris Families to Utah, pages: 162-163

Elijah B. Webb, page: 142

B). Roots of the Reorganized Latter Day Saints in Southern Iowa by Pearl Wilcox

The first chapter is all documented Handcart Testimonies.

Henry Kemp, page 43-44

David Chambers Jr., page 41

Hemming Hansen, pages 45-48

John and Elizabeth Hanbury, page 49

Andrew Hall, page 53

Carliles, pages 34-36

Fredrick Hansen, pages 37-40 or on www.latterdaytruth.org Journal of History 1916

9). Charles Wesley Wandell:

Biography of Charles Wesley Wandell

References: Journal of History, October 1910 www.latterdaytruth.org

Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy Volume 1 pages 234-236.

www.restorationbookstore.com

The Saints Advocate, Plano, Illinois November 1878 Vol. 1 No: 5

The Saints Advocate August 1881 Vol. 4 No: 2 pages 113-114

The Saints Advocate December 1883 Vol. 6 No: 6 on John D. Lee

**Charles Wesley Wandell wrote under the name of Argus, sharing his firsthand knowledge that after Joseph and Hyrum Smith were murdered that Willard Richards and Brigham Young rewrote or changed Joseph’s personal writings and papers.

10). J. W. Coward’s Letter

References: The Saints Advocate December 1881 Vol. 1 No: 6 page 148

March 1882 Vol. 4 No: 9 pages 183-184

11). Memories of Childhood by (SR.) L. J. Hartman

Reference: Autumn Leaves starting in September 1910

www.latterdaytruth.org

12). Unhappy Polygamy

Reference: The Saints Advocate (Volumes 5-8)

October 1883 Vol. 6 No: 375-376

Join Michelle for the next live broadcast and call-in show where you can get your questions answered live. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode!Questions in this episode by timestamp:0:00 Intro1:25 Why was the LDS Church willing to release the Joseph Smith Papers?3:10 Are “polygamy deniers” being deceived?4:55 What do you think of the upcoming Joseph Smith biography?7:05 What do your local leaders think of your podcast?9:15 Where should I start in looking at firsthand sources?11:30 Insights on the “unhallowed hand” Joseph foresaw17:25 How can we throw out the bathwater but keep the baby?27:35 Is there efficacy in the temple ordinances?37:05 What do we know about Joseph’s presidential candidacy?38:15 What do you know about Maria Jane Woodward?42:05 Can you compare the early sealing ceremony with the current one?42:35 Thank you for helping me find the truth about Joseph Smith47:55 Polygamy and LGBT issues53:20 What are your views on paying tithing to the Church?56:20 What do you think of the heinous actions of Bishop Snow in early Utah?1:02:00 Do you think same-sex unions will exist in the Celestial Kingdom?1:07:25 My girlfriend is concerned about the polygamous history of my church1:17:25 What are your thoughts on the Book of Abraham?1:22:35 Why don’t we just follow the gospel as described in The Book of Mormon?1:24:30 Why would the LDS Church be more legitimate than other factions?1:27:20 Ann waited 60 YEARS to understand how Joseph could have written D&C 1321:33:55 Why do the Nauvoo Expositor affidavits contain language found in D&C 132?1:41:55 What evidence would persuade you that Joseph was a polygamist?1:47:15 What are your thoughts on baptism for the dead?1:50:15 What are your thoughts on the Word of Wisdom?1:53:55 Which episodes have been the most fun or spiritual for you?1:55:15 I’ve been sealed to three women, and it feels completely wrong1:59:00 Do you think the daughters of Zion are branches of the restoration?2:00:55 Why did God command Hagar to return to Abram and Sarai?2:02:55 How does polygamy injure the male-female balance?2:08:35 Ether 4:6 – We won’t get the sealed portion until we’re clean of iniquityThanks for watching!Please consider supporting this podcast: Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24Patreon.com/132problems

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132problems

Links:

Worldwide Devotional for Young Adults: A Face to Face Event with Elder Cook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkTHZSN3FXc

Trust in the Lord, by President Dallin H. Oaks

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/17oaks?lang=eng#p1

Original D&C Section 101:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/doctrine-and-covenants-1835/259

Times and Seasons, April 1, 1844, To the Elders Abroad:

(p 490)

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/NCMP1820-1846/id/8236

Letter to the Relief Society, March 31, 1842

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/nauvoo-relief-society-minute-book/109

Times and Seasons, April 1, 1842, Try the Spirits:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/times-and-seasons-1-april-1842/13

Brigham Young 9/21/1856 “A Privilege Given to all the Married Women in Utah”

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/704

Brigham Young 9/21/1856 on blood atonement

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/706

Brigham Young 2/8/1857 on blood atonement

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/539

Brigham Young 3/16/1856 on blood atonement

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/128

Heber C. Kimball 2/1/1857 on receiving "thousands" of wives

https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/550

Zina D. Huntington 1869 interview, pp 229-230

https://archive.org/details/lionoflordb00hirs/page/228/mode/2up

Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual incorrectly quoting Jacob 2:30

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-gospel-doctrine-teachers-manual/lesson-31-sealed---for-time-and-for-all-eternity?lang=eng

Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/old-testament-revision-2/83#x66c8a1e7-950c-4f32-9c6e-0bc6c9f11f61

https://www.centerplace.org/hs/iv/1kings.htm

Brigham Young on “trading up" without a divorce https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Primary_sources/Brigham_Young/8_October_1861_discourse_on_plural_marriage

Joseph Smith July 16, 1843 sermon

Franklin D. Richards' record:

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Primary_sources/Brigham_Young/8_October_1861_discourse_on_plural_marriage

William Clayton's record:

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/discourse-16-july-1843-as-reported-by-william-clayton/1#full-transcript

Levi Richards' record:

https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/e6774c39-facf-48b1-a55b-d08eb24ee8c6/0/11

Hyrum Smith April 8, 1844 sermon

https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/daa151c4-7bae-49d0-8cef-d281a70f1d32/0/32

June 8, 1844 City Council

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/minutes-8-june-1844/3

June 10, 1844 City Council

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/minutes-10-june-1844/9

Bruce R. McConkie 8/1978 “All are Alike Unto God”

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie/alike-unto-god/

Paul Reeve, Let’s Talk About Race and Priesthood (I highly recommend this!)

https://amzn.to/49iq1BX

Interview number two with Don Bradley! Don tells us about his history, experience and training as a historian, and gives us all tools to help us be the best historians we can be. Another great conversation! And I'm really looking forward to part three!

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132problems

My long-awaited interview with Don Bradley! He requested that we first discuss faith, before going to the topic of how historians approach history in our second conversation, and then digging into the actual sources in our third conversation. This was a great beginning!

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132problems

***Apologies for the minor errors in the previous upload of this video. They have been corrected in this version of Episode 104.***

If you ever thought land deeds could be used to prove William Clayton's journal is legit, and that Joseph was a polygamist, just watch this.

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132problems

Links:

Episode 102: Deep in the Weeds of the Deeds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXmALUrDTnc

Emma's Deed: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-emma-smith-and-others-12-july-1843-draft/1

Hyrum's Deed: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-john-smith-10-february-1844/1#source-note

Trustees Book of Land Deeds B Maps: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/trustees-land-book-b-4-august-1842-8-december-1845/241

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/trustees-land-book-b-4-august-1842-8-december-1845/268

William Clayton Lawsuit: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/introduction-to-clayton-v-e-w-rhodes-et-al/1

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/transcript-of-proceedings-between-21-october-1843-and-6-february-1844-clayton-v-e-w-rhodes-et-al/5

Clayton doing deals "on behalf" of Joseph Smith: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/bond-from-chauncey-robison-22-october-1842/1#historical-intro

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/assignment-to-william-clayton-1-june-1843/1

Double registered Deed: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-julia-m-smith-and-others-17-march-1842-as-recorded-in-hancock-county-deeds/1 https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-emma-smith-and-others-12-july-1843/1

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-julia-m-smith-and-others-31-december-1841/1#historical-intro

Emma Registering deeds?: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/introduction-to-e-smith-administratrix-of-the-estate-of-js/1

Deeds Emma supposedly registered July 8, 1844: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-from-daniel-h-and-eliza-robison-wells-4-february-1843/1#source-note

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-from-orson-and-marinda-nancy-johnson-hyde-10-february-1843/1#source-note

Other Deeds Registered July 8, 1844: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/bond-from-smith-tuttle-and-john-gillet-7-july-1843/1

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-smith-tuttle-john-gillet-and-horace-hotchkiss-7-july-1843/1#source-note

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/mortgage-11-july-1843-coolidge-administrator-of-the-estate-of-js-assignee-of-buckwalter-v-william-law/1#historical-intro

Oct 5, 1843 "draft": https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-draft-1-march-31-december-1843/143

Thank you Rock for this great conversation!

We go all over the place! We discuss his early blog about Joseph's polygamy, his recent blogs about Israel and Palestine, the current situation of the church, and much more.

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132problems

Links:

Why I’m Abandoning Polygamy, by Rock Waterman

https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2010/06/why-im-abandoning-polygamy.html

Doctrine and Covenants section 101 - 1835 edition

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/doctrine-and-covenants-1835/259

Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy, by Richard and Pamela Price

https://restorationbookstore.org/pages/joseph-smith-fought-polygamy-online

Joseph Smith and Polygamy: Persistence of a Myth, by Rock Waterman

https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2020/01/joseph-smith-and-polygamy-persistence.html

"How Mormons Should Think About The War In Israel," by Rock Waterman

https://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2023/10/how-mormons-should-think-about-war-in.html

Episode 71: One “Polygamy Denier’s” Response to Bill Reel, RFM, and Brian Hales

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE9_2aQajno

R. McKay White article on the Kirtland Safety Society

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference/august-2009/the-kirtland-safety-society

Episode 78: RLDS Church History and Defending Joseph w/ Cheryl and Dan Clute

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X904zl5ZliE

Episode 94: Historical Malpractice Part 1 – A Conversation with Whitney Horning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n_mDIsV6LI

Topics Index:

0:00 Intro

0:01:30 Rock's blogpost on polygamy

0:37:20 Interview begins

0:46:40 Rock's views on the LDS church

1:04:55 Thoughts on Israeli & Palestine

1:44:55 Joseph's monogamy

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132Problems

Part 1 on Deeds, where we go deep into laying the foundation of what the deeds were, how they worked, where they are recorded, and what sources we rely on to connect them to polygamy.

Part 2 will go into specifics and look at the problematic anomalies of the two very important July 12, 1843 deeds -- the deed to Emma and her children, and the hidden deed to Hyrum.

Part 3, with statistics professor John Kidd will respond directly to Bill Reel's claims and attempted statistical analysis.

Links:

84: Exposing the Expositor Part 2 - Polygamy, Game Over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCjAOUxNzso&t=4613s

85: Proving William Clayton's Journals are NOT Contemporaneous w/Jeremy Hoop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a91kvdLKSU&t=144s

70: The *Godfathers* of Mormon Polygamy with Jeremy Hoop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDg7YofI6gQ&t=4932s

Maid of Iowa Links: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/lease-to-david-s-hollister-2-december-1843/1?highlight=maid%20of%20iowa#source-note

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/agreement-with-arthur-morrison-and-others-15-june-1844/1

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/introduction-to-moffet-administrator-of-the-estate-of-js/1?highlight=maid%20of%20iowa

Deed to Partridge siblings: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/deed-to-eliza-partridge-and-others-10-february-1843/1

Nauvoo registry of deeds:https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/nauvoo-registry-of-deeds-deed-record-book-a-1840-1843/1

Trustees Land Book A: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/trustees-land-book-a-11-september-1839-30-april-1842/1

Trustees Land Book B: https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/trustees-land-book-b-4-august-1842-8-december-1845/1

Susan Easton Black compilation: https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/viewer/532853/?offset=0#page=1&viewer=picture&o=info&n=0&q= )

Joseph Smith and the Legal Process: In the Wake of the Steamboat Nauvoo, Oaks and Bentley:

https://byustudies.byu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/19.2OaksBentleyJoseph-bc083b1e-95a0-4c14-acff-9ad779106c17.pdf

Nauvoo: Kingdom on the Mississippi:

Hardcover: https://amzn.to/4b6bHhl

Paperback: https://amzn.to/3vLwNS7

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Please consider supporting this podcast:

Venmo: @Michelle-Stone-24

Patreon.com/132Problems4

Kimberly's blog: https://www.ldsgenerations.com/2021/05/follow-me/?fbclid=IwAR0hu4m_9JOdsqrJA4YT3szoxrl1jzsnzsKEds3P6Sb1TM511RA7g3Z6H0M

Reflections of Emma (by Buddy Youngreen, NOT Tate.) :

https://amzn.to/3Hkxa8E

https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780970800800

Oaks/Bentley article, Joseph Smith And Legal Process: In the Wake of The Steamboat

Nauvoo: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1927&context=byusq

*Nauvoo archeologists Paul Debarthe and David Debarthe are showing that Nauvoo was in fact not a swamp. Those claims grew out of exaggerated stories. Another false Nauvoo narrative that will be fascinating to "dig" into!

Biography of Alexander Hale Smith: https://restorationbookstore.org/products/90101013