In the final scene of the 1986 coming-of-age film Stand By Me, the film’s narrator sums up boyhood friendship with the simple line, “I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve.” And that’s largely true for a number of men who had no trouble developing deep, meaningful friendships with other boys. So why has a lack of friendship among dads become a cliche, or even a running joke? Why can’t guys hang onto those intimate friendships from their past, and what keeps them from making new friends as adults?

On this episode of Paternal, journalist and novelist Sam Graham-Felsen examines how one of his strongest childhood friendships has eroded over the years in the wake of marriage and fatherhood, and why men are reluctant to reach out to close friends when they’re in distress. He also discusses why listening to Joe Rogan offers some men a community in place of real-life friendships, and what men can do to rediscover the old friends they thought they lost.

Graham-Felsen is the author of the article “Where Have All My Deep Male Friendships Gone?”, which appeared in the New York Times Magazine in May.