Paternal

Gary Vider is the son of a con man. His father Manny ran a series of schemes in and around New York City for years while Gary was growing up, including dozens of times when father and son conned their way into Madison Square Garden while posing as media members for Sports Illustrated for Kids. Gary met some of the biggest names in sports -  John Elway, Mario Lemieux, and even Michael Jordan - all because Manny had what all good con artists have: The ability to ignore all the possible consequences of his actions. “Most people can’t do it,” Gary says, “but my dad was the master.”

But what happens when those actions destroy a family, and leave a son isolated from his father for almost 25 years? On this episode of Paternal, Gary looks back on growing up with a con man for a father, what he learned by trying to reconnect with his dad decades later, and why it took becoming a father himself to question what he really knew or believed about his own dad.

Gary Vider is the host of the podcast #1 Dad.

Episode Timestamps:  00:00 - 09:30 - Intro and life as a fake writer for Sports Illustrated for Kids 09:30 - 12:14 - Comedians and dad issues 12:14 - 15:34 - Manny Vider, the master con man 15:34 - 19:45 - Life as a con man’s son 19:45 - 21:35 - The influence of becoming a father 21:35 - 23:45 - Midway break 23:45 - 30:04 - Father and son reunite 30:04 - 32:08 - Deciphering what’s true and untrue 32:08 - 36:40 - An atypical father/son relationship 36:40 - 38:01 - Outro

Once you hear the story of the Black civil liberties group MOVE, it’s almost impossible to believe you had never learned about it before. Dubbed by some as a cult and by others as revolutionaries in the mold of The Black Panther Party, MOVE members railed against racial injustice and inequality in Philadelphia during the 1970s and early 80s, frequently clashing with police. A number of MOVE’s members were either jailed or killed as a result, leaving its younger generation to make sense of the legacy of MOVE and how the group’s actions shaped their lives.

On this episode of Paternal, MOVE member Mike Africa, Jr. discusses his parents’ imprisonment for the murder of a police officer, and how he made peace with the knowledge that he was born in a Philadelphia jail cell. He also discusses meeting his father for the first time in prison, the experience of watching his father walk free after 40 years inside, and the challenges of raising his own kids in the shadow of MOVE.

Africa is the author of the memoir On A Move, Philadelphia’s Notorious Bombing And A Native Son’s Lifelong Battle For Justice, which is available now wherever you buy books.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 08:51 - Introduction and history of MOVE 08:51 - 12:30 - A marriage and a prison sentence 12:30 - 14:26 - Born in a jail cell 14:26 - 18:57 - Life without a mother and father 18:57 - 22:38 - A first meeting between father and son 22:38 - 24:40 - A father’s impact 24:40 - 29:23 - Fatherhood and the legacy of MOVE 29:23 - 32:28 - A father and son reunited  32:28 - Outro

After a particularly feverish Twitter rant in 2018 landed him an invite to write a guest opinion on boys and violence from The New York Times, Michael Ian Black had to ask one simple question: Are you sure you want me? After all, Black is best known as a sketch and standup comic, and a particularly snarky one at that. But he wrote the essay and it subsequently went viral, leading Black to eventually pen the 2020 memoir A Better Man: A (Mostly Serious) Letter To My Son, which offers a candid take on his own boyhood, the death of his father, and why he’s concerned for his own son’s future.

On this 2022 episode of Paternal, Black recounts his adolescent experience of desperately seeking all the secrets of manhood, why he tinged his own successful brand of humor with defensive sarcasm, why even the most influential male comics rarely delve into painful vulnerability, and where he failed and succeeded as a father to his two children.

Over the past few years comedian and filmmaker W. Kamau Bell has become one of America’s most recognizable purveyors of humor and smart social commentary. And his success is due in large part to his willingness to tackle thorny topics like race, sexual assault, education, and policing, be it as a standup comic, an Emmy-nominated reality show host, or from behind the camera as a documentary filmmaker. 

On this episode of Paternal, Bell discusses his latest film 1000% Me: Growing Up Mixed and his own personal experience of raising his three mixed-race daughters, male vulnerability and dad jokes in his comedy, and how he’s reckoned with the truth about “America’s Dad,” Bill Cosby.

Bell’s film 1000% Me: Growing Up Mixed is now streaming on MAX.

Everyone at some point has ridden in the back of an Uber, but how often do we think about the people behind the wheel, or how they got there? Jonathan Rigsby had a master’s degree and a full-time job when he gave his first Uber ride, reeling from a painful divorce and seeking a way to help support his young son. But Uber’s promises of big bucks and a flexible schedule were soon replaced by long nights filled with despair as Rigsby realized he, like millions of other Americans, had been trapped in the cycle of the gig economy.

On this episode of Paternal, Rigsby recounts how his divorce led him to the brink of poverty and why he picked up a second job driving all over town, but also what it’s really like to work for Uber, where wages are never quite what they seem and you can still feel lonely when the backseat is full.

Rigsby is the author of Drive: Scraping by in Uber’s America, which is available wherever you buy books.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 05:25 - Intro 05:25 - 11:03 - Financial troubles and finding Uber 11:03 - 13:30 - Uber’s marketing strategy 13:30 - 16:30 - When people throw up in the car 16:30 - 18:05 - The myth of doing things the right way 18:05 - 20:00 - Doing it all for his son 20:00 - 22:25 - Midway break 22:25 - 26:32 - The caffeine cycle 26:32 - 28:36 - “Are you guys still together?” 28:36 - 29:50 - The shame of divorce 29:50 - 32:00 - Keeping his life a secret 32:00 - 37:00 - The breaking point 37:00 - 41:25 - Lessons learned for father and son

Peter Doocy isn’t the first guest to appear on Paternal as the son of a very famous father, but he’s definitely the only one who can claim to have an “adverserial bromance” with President Joe Biden. As the Senior White House Correspondent for Fox News, Doocy’s made it his job since 2021 to pepper the president and members of his administration with questions about immigration, inflation or international affairs, and in the process has become one of the network’s most recognizable figures - just like his father.

On this episode of Paternal, Doocy discusses what it was like to grow up as the son of the affable “Fox and Friends” host Steve Doocy and if the family name ever held him back as a journalist, how he approaches fame, fatherhood and social media, and how becoming a dad himself has changed his opinion of Biden as the country’s most famous empathetic father figure.

Doocy is the host of the three-part series entitled “Strike Zone: The Congressional Baseball Shooting,” which is now streaming on Fox Nation.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 06:17 - Intro 06:17 - 10:15 - Watching his father on “Fox and Friends” 10:15 - 12:02 - Life lessons from his father 12:02 - 13:00 - If the Doocy name held him back 13:00 - 17:34 - Becoming a new star at Fox News 17:34 - 21:09 - Discussing an “adversial bromance” with President Biden and their connection as fathers 21:09 - 22:20 - On new anxieties as a father 22:20 - 24:38 - Discussing an average work day and the perils of social media 24:38 - 25:59 - On lessons from his father about fame 25:59 - 27:46 - The good and bad of fatherhood 27:46 - 29:00 - Outro

Paternal celebrates Father’s Day with a special episode paying tribute to all the new dads out there celebrating the holiday for the first time. Three past guests are back on the show to offer their thoughts on the early days of fatherhood and the challenges of becoming a new father, but also on the value of patience, the power a village has to raise a child, and why it’s so important to reconsider what we mean when we think of the word “sacrifice.”

Guests on this episode of Paternal include:

Author and professor Jesse Thistle, who penned the 2020 memoir From the Ashes and the 2022 collection of poems and stories, Stars and Scars.

CNN political commentator and attorney Bakari Sellers, author of the 2024 release The Moment: Thoughts on the Race Reckoning That Wasn't and How We All Can Move Forward Now.

Author and Wilshire Boulevard Temple Senior Rabbi Steve Leder, who wrote the 2022 book For You When I Am Gone: Twelve Essential Questions to Tell a Life Story.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 06:20 - Introduction 06:20 - 16:00 - Author and professor Jesse Thistle 16:00 - 26:03 - Political commentator and attorney Bakari Sellers 28:36 - 43:33 - Senior Rabbi Steve Leder

Michael Andor Brodeur is a “big man.” That’s the term he uses to describe himself after more than 30 years of lifting weights - some of those spent as a powerlifter, and all of those spent not just trying to get fit, but to get big. But for all the time he’s spent in the gym over the years, he’s probably spent just as much time thinking about the way men think about the connection between men, muscles, and masculinity.

On this episode of Paternal, Brodeur discusses the concept of getting big and why some men are so motivated to do so, the connection between how men build their bodies and their inability to express themselves emotionally, how some men use weightlifting to deal with issues like anxiety, grief and addiction, and why the gym is a place where men are free to fail and support one another when they do fail, two things they might not be encouraged to do in other parts of society.

Brodeur is the classical music critic at the Washington Post and the author of the book, Swole: The Making of Men and the Meaning of Muscle, which is available wherever you buy books.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 05:20 - Introduction 05:20 - 7:13 - First exposure to weight lifting 07:13 - 13:00 - Using weights as a way to change self-image 13:00 - 17:52 - Why men lift weights to be noticed by other men 17:52 - 22:22 - How men use their bodies as primary means of self-expression 22:22 - 25:43 - Why failure and encouragement is accepted by men the gym 25:43 - 30:05 - Carrying grief into the gym 30:05 - 33:30 - A different definition of strength

When you’re talking to Bakari Sellers about fatherhood, you’re talking to a man who truly is a link between generations. As the son of a famous Civil Rights activist who befriended the likes of Stokely Carmichael and Martin Luther King, Jr., Sellers feels the weight of expectations from his ancestors and his community. And as the father of two young twins, he feels the pressure of helping ensure the world is better for them than it ever was for him.

But what happens when that pressure sometimes feels like too much? And what happens when, despite all the work he and his father have done to make it so, he simply can’t tell his kids everything will be okay? On this episode of Paternal, Sellers discusses why he sees his life as an extension of his father’s journey, how he copes with anxiety, his relationship to anger, and why he thinks the U.S. has reached a nadir after George Floyd’s death failed to produce a racial reckoning so many expected.

Sellers is a political commentator for CNN and a former state legislator from South Carolina, as well as the author of the new book The Moment, which is available now wherever you buy books.

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 07:40 - Introduction

07:40 - 10:15  - Lessons from his father

10:15 - 16:00 -  dealing with the pressure of a famous father

16:00 - 19:26 - handling pressure from the Black community and dealing with anxiety

19:26 - 24:20 - on generational changes among poiliticians and activists

24:20 - 27:35 - channeling anger and realizing the world might not be okay for our kids

27:35 - 29:50 - on lessons we teach our kids, and a sense of resignation

29:50 - end credits

Read The Transcript For This Episode

If you were a child of the 1980s and early 1990s, you lived through a golden age for sitcom dads. From The Cosby Show to Growing Pains and Roseanne to The Simpsons, fathers of all kinds ruled the airwaves for roughly a decade, providing an entire generation of wide-eyed kids a glimpse into what a father should look like and, for better or worse, what a family can be. But did these portrayals of paternal figures do more harm than good, and how did Friends and Seinfeld land a fatal blow to the fate of sitcom dads?

Comedy historian and author Saul Austerlitz joins this episode of Paternal to take a deep dive on the history of the family sitcom, tracing the genre’s roots back to the dawn of television. He discusses how fathers were first portrayed in the 1950s and how they have evolved during each decade thereafter, including iconic sitcom dads on Leave it to Beaver, All in the Family, The Cosby Show, Married With Children, Roseanne, and The Simpsons.

Austerlitz is a faculty member at NYU who teaches courses on writing about American comedy and writing about television drama, and he’s the author of six books, including on the history of sitcoms and the success of the hit series Friends. He recently wrote an article in The Atlantic entitled “Dad Culture Has Nothing to Do With Parenting.”

Episode Timestamps:

00:00 - 06:56 - Intro

06:56 - 10:33 - The perils of the “dad perjorative” and the connection to sitcoms

10:33 - 15:12 - Sitcom dads in the 1950s and 1960s

15:12 - 21:18 - Discussing Archie Bunker, “All in the Family,” and 70s family sitcoms

23:16 - 28:28 - The success of “The Cosby Show”

28:28 - 32:22 - The rise of the 1980s Superdad

32:22 - 36:12 - “Roseanne” breaks the mold

36:12 - 42:49 - The alternative dads on “Married With Children” and “The Simpsons”

42:49 - 46:25 - The 1990s demise of the family sitcom 

46:25 - 48:42 - “Blackish” and dads on modern-day sitcoms

48:42 - 51:40 - What we lose without family sitcoms

Read The Transcript For This Episode