In this conversation with Carly Grubb, founder of The Beyond Sleep Training Project, Little Sparklers, and Grubby Mummy and the Grubby Bubbies blog, we talk about the consequences of sleep training, the failure of our systems in supporting new parents, the intense emotional load that women carry in our families and communities, and what valuing motherhood means. Carly shares her own story of attending sleep school, and the ways she has used her painful and isolating experience to create what has become a groundswell movement of like-minded parents. The group Carly founded and runs with her team of admins and moderators – The Beyond Sleep Training Group – is approaching 100,000 members. The group supports biologically normal infant and toddler sleep, providing a voice against the tidal wave of the sleep training industry. We talk about the group’s formation, the ways it provides support, what goes on ‘behind the scenes’, what it’s like to run a group of this size, and what is next in stall through the work of the charity Little Sparklers. Part of this involves acknowledging the emotional work, unpaid labour, and personal sacrifices experienced by Carly and her team. This discussion extends beyond sleep training into our everyday experiences as mothers in this society. Having these conversations in public forums requires courage and vulnerability, but Carly’s passion for supporting mothers and babies, and her yearning to see institutional change has kept her going. This is a must-listen for pregnant women, Mums of babies and toddlers, and anyone who is interested in making our society better for mothers and their children.