At top of the episode, Joey’s pastor Josh Surratt joins to talk about big church buildings, whether he’s comfortable with Joey’s different approaches to Christian faith, if he’d like to be a celebrity pastor and if there's anything he dislikes about the church he leads.   

Within white evangelical church cultures, many black people have  found their voices and convictions unvalued.  It's a very ugly truth but many white, evangelical churches embrace black membership and even love “the look” of having black leadership.  But once black leaders use their God-given leadership and insight to influence – or at the very least – to share their hearts with white people, it’s viewed as "stepping out of line," even sinful. 

Dante Stewart, former defensive back of God’s favorite college football team, Clemson Tigers, wrote a book called “Shoutin’ in the Fire: An American Epistle;  in which he shares his reasons for permanently leaving white evangelicalism, why it’s not his job to help white people change, and ways to help us all reimagine spiritual virtues like rage, resilience, and remembrance, exploring how these might function as a work of love against an unjust, unloving world.  How's that for a run-on sentence! 

Dante Stewart / Twitter / Instagram / Website / Book on Amazon
Pastor Josh Surratt / Twitter / Instagram 

Books mentioned in this episode: 
More Beautiful and Terrible History by Jeanne Theoharis
The Blood of Emmett Till by Timothy B. Tyson
The Case for Rage by Myisha Cherry

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