Today our returning champion Ben Lee joins me on the show to talk (a little bit) about his new single 'Born for this Bullshit' and (mainly) about cult heroes Smudge and their classic 1994 album 'Manilow'. We talk about confidence, the 90s, the sound of pre Pro Tools recordings, how Smudge intersected with The Lemonheads, Tom Morgan's slacker, superior, smart arse aesthetic and how his lyrics are the real definition of authenticity, similarities with country songwriting and more.