My guests today are acclaimed Melbourne folk sister duo Charm of Finches. Mabel and Ivy talk about Sufjan Stevens' seminal 2015 album 'Carrie and Lowell', how Sufjan processed the loss of his estranged mother through the songs, the intimacy of the record and how it contrasts with many of his other more elaborate albums, how to let yourself write from a vulnerable place, trusting a producer to shepherd those songs, whether writing about grief is actually cathartic, what it was like to see Sufjan live and their favorite songs on the record.